Hello to all that are interested

[Tikkun Olam]

I happened along this forum although I'm not Hindu, I'm Jewish. I have been reading some of your topics and it's interesting to see how you guys view things differently from the typical Western view I'm used to.

My name, Tikkun Olam, is Hebrew and it means "Restoring the world". It is a concept that has existed for about 2000 years in relation to making social and legal justice.

[AmIHindu]

I happened along this forum although I'm not Hindu, I'm Jewish. I have been reading some of your topics and it's interesting to see how you guys view things differently from the typical Western view I'm used to.

My name, Tikkun Olam, is Hebrew and it means "Restoring the world". It is a concept that has existed for about 2000 years in relation to making social and legal justice.

Namaste Tikkun,

Welcome to Hindu Dharma Forums. Happy to have you here.

[charitra]

I happened along this forum although I'm not Hindu, I'm Jewish. I have been reading some of your topics and it's interesting to see how you guys view things differently from the typical Western view I'm used to.

My name, Tikkun Olam, is Hebrew and it means "Restoring the world". It is a concept that has existed for about 2000 years in relation to making social and legal justice.

Welcome to the forum

[Mana]

Namasté Tikkun Olam,

Its always nice to hear a different point of view, thus to imagine from a different perspective.
Welcome.

peaNAma

mana

[devotee]

I happened along this forum although I'm not Hindu, I'm Jewish. I have been reading some of your topics and it's interesting to see how you guys view things differently from the typical Western view I'm used to.

My name, Tikkun Olam, is Hebrew and it means "Restoring the world". It is a concept that has existed for about 2000 years in relation to making social and legal justice.

The jews who I met had completely closed mind-set. It would be interesting to see what you have new to offer. Welcome to the forums ! :)

OM

[wundermonk]

@Tikkun:

Welcome to HDF.


The jews who I met had completely closed mind-set.

Really devoteeji? What were you talking about?

The few Jews that I have met were completely secular and highly scientific. The topic of conversation never swerved to religion. In fact, back in the days when I didnt know much about the details of Hinduism, one Jewish gentleman talked to me about Advaita. :)

[Tikkun Olam]

The jews who I met had completely closed mind-set. It would be interesting to see what you have new to offer. Welcome to the forums ! :)

OM

Really? Jews to me always seem to be a very open-minded group. Even Jewish law talks about non-Jews and accepts other religions. There's an old concept that Jews have this drive to go after every "-ism" in the world (whether that means science, liberalism, communism... maybe Hinduism?) before they even accept Judaism. It's a weird phenomenon that was talked about in certain Biblical books 2500 years ago, and Jews still talk about today.

"Access to the Vedas is the greatest privilege this century may claim over all previous centuries."
- Robert Oppenheimer, inventor of the atomic bomb, and a Jew

[Jainarayan]

Namaste devotee and wundermonk.


@Tikkun:

Welcome to HDF.



Really devoteeji? What were you talking about?

The few Jews that I have met were completely secular and highly scientific. The topic of conversation never swerved to religion. In fact, back in the days when I didnt know much about the details of Hinduism, one Jewish gentleman talked to me about Advaita. :)

Yes, I have had the same experiences as wundermonk. The Jews I've known, except for one or two here or there who wore their "Jewishness" on their sleeves, have been very nice, polite and secular. They would share of themselves if you asked, but they never pressed it.

Sometimes one encounters an insular group of people, a neighborhood perhaps, where they are of a different mindset than others. I find that to be the case with Greeks. The Greeks who own the diner I go to (now there's a redundancy... a "Greek diner" :D) have taken to me like one of their own. Other Greeks, when I was Orthodox, wouldn't give you the time of day at church if you were not Greek.

It takes all kinds, as "they" say. :dunno:

[devotee]

Namaste WM,



Really devoteeji? What were you talking about?


Actually his mother was Christian and his father was a Jew. Somewhat he started believing the ONLY true religion is Judaism & all other are false. Again, he had a very strong opinion on so-called idol-worship ... for him it was evil ... period ! He believed that it was Judaism that gave the world the first laws from God (received by Moses). Apparently he had no idea about Hindu scriptures which are much much older than scriptures of Judaism.

He also believed that every drop of semen shed was a different soul (he gave it some name, I don't remember) ... so on and so forth. He also believed that the treatment met out to Jesus i.e. Crucifying him was correct as it was as per the laws of Moses. I think you must be aware of Deuteronomy 13 which prescribes unthinkable punishment to people for idol-worship, (supposedly) acting as a false prophet etc. He believed it all to be correct. So, from his point of view, if India is completely destroyed it would as per God's wishes !!

That really left a bad taste in my mouth which surfaces every time I come across a Jew. :(

OM

[Spiritualseeker]

Namaste,


Actually his mother was Christian and his father was a Jew. Somewhat he started believing the ONLY true religion is Judaism & all other are false. Again, he had a very strong opinion on so-called idol-worship ... for him it was evil ... period ! He believed that it was Judaism that gave the world the first laws from God (received by Moses). Apparently he had no idea about Hindu scriptures which are much much older than scriptures of Judaism.

He also believed that every drop of semen shed was a different soul (he gave it some name, I don't remember) ... so on and so forth. He also believed that the treatment met out to Jesus i.e. Crucifying him was correct as it was as per the laws of Moses. I think you must be aware of Deuteronomy 13 which prescribes unthinkable punishment to people for idol-worship, (supposedly) acting as a false prophet etc. He believed it all to be correct. So, from his point of view, if India is completely destroyed it would as per God's wishes !!

That really left a bad taste in my mouth which surfaces every time I come across a Jew.

OM

Blah, such dry practice. It is too bad that we humans can get caught up in these wrong views. I also had such views, but of course in favor of Islam. These types of paths to me are just not great guides to realizing our selves. But this is all part of the play, they must have some purpose.

Om Namah Shivaya

[Tikkun Olam]

Namaste WM,

Actually his mother was Christian and his father was a Jew. Somewhat he started believing the ONLY true religion is Judaism & all other are false. Again, he had a very strong opinion on so-called idol-worship ... for him it was evil ... period ! He believed that it was Judaism that gave the world the first laws from God (received by Moses). Apparently he had no idea about Hindu scriptures which are much much older than scriptures of Judaism.

He also believed that every drop of semen shed was a different soul (he gave it some name, I don't remember) ... so on and so forth. He also believed that the treatment met out to Jesus i.e. Crucifying him was correct as it was as per the laws of Moses. I think you must be aware of Deuteronomy 13 which prescribes unthinkable punishment to people for idol-worship, (supposedly) acting as a false prophet etc. He believed it all to be correct. So, from his point of view, if India is completely destroyed it would as per God's wishes !!

That really left a bad taste in my mouth which surfaces every time I come across a Jew. :(

OM

I have to jump in to try and halt this run-away train before it goes too far. There are a lot of issues you brought up.

First of all, the Jewish community generally wouldn't consider that man as a Jew, being that his mother isn't Jewish. (A Jew is defined by birth, not by belief).

There is also no concept in Judaism of it being the "only" religion. If you look at history, Jews never tried to convert other people (which is part of the reason we're still such a tiny group today). There is no reason why everyone should be a Jew, so he's wrong about that too.

I can debate you over the age of the texts, but not here.

There is also no concept in Judaism of semen being like human souls. There are different levels of soul- ones found in inanimate, ones found in living things, ones found in animals, and ones found in humans. Clearly, semen would be living things, but not humans.

Now, Jesus never claimed to be God and was not trying to start his own faith. That concept was added by the Romans about 200 years after he died. He only saw himself as a scholar who argued for certain interpretations of the laws (which was a rather heated part of life in Israel during Jesus' lifetime). He was also crucified by the Romans, not the Jews.

Also, Torah law only applies to Jews, not Hindus, so there is nothing wrong with Hindus practicing idol worship.


If you have interest in any of the things I mentioned above, start a thread! It's better than going into all of that here.

[devotee]

I have to jump in to try and halt this run-away train before it goes too far. There are a lot of issues you brought up.

First of all, the Jewish community generally wouldn't consider that man as a Jew, being that his mother isn't Jewish. (A Jew is defined by birth, not by belief).

There is also no concept in Judaism of it being the "only" religion. If you look at history, Jews never tried to convert other people (which is part of the reason we're still such a tiny group today). There is no reason why everyone should be a Jew, so he's wrong about that too.

I can debate you over the age of the texts, but not here.

There is also no concept in Judaism of semen being like human souls. There are different levels of soul- ones found in inanimate, ones found in living things, ones found in animals, and ones found in humans. Clearly, semen would be living things, but not humans.

Now, Jesus never claimed to be God and was not trying to start his own faith. That concept was added by the Romans about 200 years after he died. He only saw himself as a scholar who argued for certain interpretations of the laws (which was a rather heated part of life in Israel during Jesus' lifetime). He was also crucified by the Romans, not the Jews.

Also, Torah law only applies to Jews, not Hindus, so there is nothing wrong with Hindus practicing idol worship.

If you have interest in any of the things I mentioned above, start a thread! It's better than going into all of that here.

Don't get defensive and I don't ask for any clarification. I don't think the person I met represented the Jews in general. So, whatever I said doesn't apply to all Jews including you.

Regarding the drop of semen being some living thing ... I think he said something like "nafsa" if it makes any sense. Your views on Jesus can be hurtful to the Christians ... imho, you should respect their beliefs otherwise how and why should you be seen differently than the person I met. Regarding Jew by birth theory ... this he also mentioned & I agree with you that Jews don't try to convert as this concept is absent in Judaism.

I am not seeking any answers from you & I am least interested in discussing any such issues with you or anyone which is nothing but a waste of time. Please enjoy your stay on this forum. I am looking forward to your insightful posts. :)

OM

[Tikkun Olam]

I believe what I said about Jesus was accurate. As far as I know there is no place in the Christian Bible where he claims divinity. I'm also familiar with extra-biblical history around that same time. There were a lot of debates over the interpretations of the laws, and different schools arose. Two of the big ones were the schools of Hillel, and Shammai. Hillel and Shammai were both about 2 generations older than Jesus. There was a divide in Israel at the time into the two different schools, over which was the "right" one.

Jesus came along and argued for his own school that he thought was better than both Hillel and Shammai. But he did not think he was starting a separate faith, in his own words;

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commandments and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commandments will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Mathew 5:17-19)

[devotee]

I believe what I said about Jesus was accurate. As far as I know there is no place in the Christian Bible where he claims divinity.

Do you know what your way of thinking is called ? It is extremism. Don't claim what you say is right and what the Christians think is wrong. That is the problem with Jews which I mentioned in my earlier post. Jesus claimed that He and His father were One. ... and that is the Truth as per Advaita Vedanta and also Sufi's philosophy (Al-Hallaz's proclamation, "I am the Truth").

However, as perhaps, you have no idea of what Non-duality is, it would be extremely difficult to understand what I am saying or what Jesus said. I am not saying that Jesus was an Advaita-vedantin ... what I am saying that this is an inevitable state where you come at the topmost point of spirituality. The creator and the creation are not different.

Please stop thinking like another Zakir Naik (who spiritually is extemely ignorant). Whatever Jesus claimed has been realised not by one person ... but by many Hindus & you too can realise that. This practically possible to realise ... you don't have to believe or not believe anyone or any scriptures. In Hinduism we say that at that stage the scriptures become useless : "Tatra Vedah Avedah bhavanti".

OM

[Kumar_Das]

I have to jump in to try and halt this run-away train before it goes too far. There are a lot of issues you brought up.

First of all, the Jewish community generally wouldn't consider that man as a Jew, being that his mother isn't Jewish. (A Jew is defined by birth, not by belief).

There is also no concept in Judaism of it being the "only" religion. If you look at history, Jews never tried to convert other people (which is part of the reason we're still such a tiny group today). There is no reason why everyone should be a Jew, so he's wrong about that too.

I can debate you over the age of the texts, but not here.

There is also no concept in Judaism of semen being like human souls. There are different levels of soul- ones found in inanimate, ones found in living things, ones found in animals, and ones found in humans. Clearly, semen would be living things, but not humans.

Now, Jesus never claimed to be God and was not trying to start his own faith. That concept was added by the Romans about 200 years after he died. He only saw himself as a scholar who argued for certain interpretations of the laws (which was a rather heated part of life in Israel during Jesus' lifetime). He was also crucified by the Romans, not the Jews.

Also, Torah law only applies to Jews, not Hindus, so there is nothing wrong with Hindus practicing idol worship.


If you have interest in any of the things I mentioned above, start a thread! It's better than going into all of that here.

a jew who doesnt believe that jesus either was a (phoney)godman or didnt exist?

in b 4 this guy starts creating some sensational thread.

or supports muslims or christians or tries to get us to pick and choose which of the accursed abrahamics we prefer or something along those lines. or says something I will have a problem with.

[Kumar_Das]

I believe what I said about Jesus was accurate. As far as I know there is no place in the Christian Bible where he claims divinity. I'm also familiar with extra-biblical history around that same time. There were a lot of debates over the interpretations of the laws, and different schools arose. Two of the big ones were the schools of Hillel, and Shammai. Hillel and Shammai were both about 2 generations older than Jesus. There was a divide in Israel at the time into the two different schools, over which was the "right" one.

Jesus came along and argued for his own school that he thought was better than both Hillel and Shammai. But he did not think he was starting a separate faith, in his own words;

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commandments and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commandments will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Mathew 5:17-19)

sounds like some muslim talk. *yawn*

[Tikkun Olam]

Do you know what your way of thinking is called ? It is extremism. Don't claim what you say is right and what the Christians think is wrong. That is the problem with Jews which I mentioned in my earlier post. Jesus claimed that He and His father were One. ... and that is the Truth as per Advaita Vedanta and also Sufi's philosophy (Al-Hallaz's proclamation, "I am the Truth").

However, as perhaps, you have no idea of what Non-duality is, it would be extremely difficult to understand what I am saying or what Jesus said. I am not saying that Jesus was an Advaita-vedantin ... what I am saying that this is an inevitable state where you come at the topmost point of spirituality. The creator and the creation are not different.

Please stop thinking like another Zakir Naik (who spiritually is extemely ignorant). Whatever Jesus claimed has been realised not by one person ... but by many Hindus & you too can realise that. This practically possible to realise ... you don't have to believe or not believe anyone or any scriptures. In Hinduism we say that at that stage the scriptures become useless : "Tatra Vedah Avedah bhavanti".

OM

What I said was not extremism, I was just putting him in historical context. It is important to also know what was going on around him- heated debates over the Law, and divisions into separate schools. These had to do with a lot of legal decisions that started to get complicated and drew a lot of attention.

Some Hindus believe Jesus is the "Truth"? That's kind of surprising...

[devotee]

What I said was not extremism, I was just putting him in historical context. It is important to also know what was going on around him- heated debates over the Law, and divisions into separate schools. These had to do with a lot of legal decisions that started to get complicated and drew a lot of attention.

Some Hindus believe Jesus is the "Truth"? That's kind of surprising...

Historical context ? Who wrote that ? and Truth ? that what the Jews believe is the ONLY Truth ?

There is more to Spirituality than your understanding of Truth and Reality. You have no idea.

OM

[Tikkun Olam]

Historical context ? Who wrote that ? and Truth ? that what the Jews believe is the ONLY Truth ?

There is more to Spirituality than your understanding of Truth and Reality. You have no idea.

OM

The history of Israel around Jesus' lifetime was extensively covered in the Talmud. There are also the Dead Sea Scrolls, some of which were written during Jesus' life, and the writings of the historian Josephus.

The two schools I talked about above were developed from the two men,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_and_Shammai
Who lived in the first century CE, the century of Jesus.

Josephus was also an important writer on Jesus,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus

And please, I've never said that I think everyone should be Jewish. I think I've made that clear. You keep on forcing that belief onto me, when on the inside it doesn't even exist in any kernel. My posts so far have tried to emphasize that. But telling me I have no idea makes you sound like that, ironically.

[devotee]

The history of Israel around Jesus' lifetime was extensively covered in the Talmud. There are also the Dead Sea Scrolls, some of which were written during Jesus' life, and the writings of the historian Josephus.

The two schools I talked about above were developed from the two men,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_and_Shammai
Who lived in the first century CE, the century of Jesus.

Josephus was also an important writer on Jesus,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus

And please, I've never said that I think everyone should be Jewish. I think I've made that clear. You keep on forcing that belief onto me, when on the inside it doesn't even exist in any kernel. My posts so far have tried to emphasize that. But telling me I have no idea makes you sound like that, ironically.

But why should we not believe that the people you are quoting are lying for some vested interests ??

BTW, spiritually speaking, it hardly matters whether Jesus existed in physical form or not. God accepts worship in any form that suits the devotee. God has to come in the form of Jesus if he is sincerely worshipped as Jesus by his sincere & truthful devotee.

OM

[Eastern Mind]

I happened along this forum although I'm not Hindu, I'm Jewish. I have been reading some of your topics and it's interesting to see how you guys view things differently from the typical Western view I'm used to.


Vannakkam Tikkun: Its a bit late, but I'll add my welcome. (something a bit better to do personally) I do hope you find some valuable human stuff here. Humanity does need to learn how to get along, although some days I have some doubts and concerns. Hopefully you'll gain some respect for Hinduism.

Aum Namasivaya

[Eastern Mind]

What I said was not extremism,

Vannakkam: the term 'extremism' is subjective. It may not be to you, but if another person/soul perceives it that way, then it is (to him/her). period.

Aum Namasivaya

[Tikkun Olam]

Vannakkam: the term 'extremism' is subjective. It may not be to you, but if another person/soul perceives it that way, then it is (to him/her). period.

Aum Namasivaya

It did seem like devotee was attacking me after I only introduced myself. I don't think it would have matter much what I said.

But the rest of you here are nice.

[Eastern Mind]

It did seem like devotee was attacking me after I only introduced myself. I don't think it would have matter much what I said.

But the rest of you here are nice.

Vannakkam: In my personal experience, said embodied jiva rarely attacks. We all have our reasons, be they past experiences or karmas. Things here are in a constant state of flux. 'Attacks' are often no more than misinterpretations of these shades of dark on white. You've hopefully discovered this place is a Hindu forum. There are many takes here. Sanatana Dharma is a vast metropolis of mind.

As for myself, I've never met a Jew in real life, much less had any discussion.

Aum Namasivaya

[Spiritualseeker]

The history of Israel around Jesus' lifetime was extensively covered in the Talmud. There are also the Dead Sea Scrolls, some of which were written during Jesus' life, and the writings of the historian Josephus.

The two schools I talked about above were developed from the two men,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_and_Shammai
Who lived in the first century CE, the century of Jesus.

Josephus was also an important writer on Jesus,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus

And please, I've never said that I think everyone should be Jewish. I think I've made that clear. You keep on forcing that belief onto me, when on the inside it doesn't even exist in any kernel. My posts so far have tried to emphasize that. But telling me I have no idea makes you sound like that, ironically.

The writings from Josephus on Christ are actually forged. Really to me, the jewish and christian literature is too flimsy to really get any grip on what is real. The literature is just filled with inconsistencies and forged documents.

[charitra]

.... Tikkun Olam, is Hebrew and it means "Restoring the world"...

this hindu monk was on a mission of Tikkun Olam and may he provide some inspiration to all of us; he actually mentioned 'Israelites' and 'terrosrism' on sept 11, 1893 in his famous chicago speech. Fortunately it is available on youtube even after nearly 120 yrs. Namaste.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8MRaedvfUU.

[Mana]

this hindu monk was on a mission of Tikkun Olam and may he provide some inspiration to all of us; he actually mentioned 'Israelites' and 'terrosrism' on sept 11, 1893 in his famous chicago speech. Fortunately it is available on youtube even after nearly 120 yrs. Namaste.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8MRaedvfUU.

Namasté charitra, All

Thank you for reminding me of Swami Vivekananda Beautiful speech. It still touches my heart now.

Here is the text. (http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/volume_1/vol_1_frame.htm)

I highly recommend his words and writings to any one wishing to understand, that which is a universal perspective; one.

praNAma

mana

[Sahasranama]

I have no idea what your motives are for registering on a Hindu forum. I am not the least bit interested in what you have to say, maybe others like to waste their time chatting with you.

[Tikkun Olam]

I have no idea what your motives are for registering on a Hindu forum. I am not the least bit interested in what you have to say, maybe others like to waste their time chatting with you.

... nothing is so purifying as knowledge...

I'm pretty surprised by the reactions of some people here. What ever happened to having discussion with people who are different from you? :( If my being here is so hated, I will leave...

[Sahasranama]

I don't hate you, I just think you are boring and wasting our time.

[devotee]

... nothing is so purifying as knowledge...

I'm pretty surprised by the reactions of some people here. What ever happened to having discussion with people who are different from you? :( If my being here is so hated, I will leave...

You are not at all hated. If this impression is made because of any of my posts, I am sorry. The intention is to share our viewpoints ... may be sometimes we use slightly stronger words ... but that happens in any forum.

OM

[Sahasranama]

I don't want to be mean to you, you are probably a nice and intelligent person. But this forum is already suffering from too many discussions about the abrahamic religions. I don't think your presence here is going to help to shift the discussions more towards Hinduism rather than irrelevant stuff about Moses, Jesus or Mohammed.

[devotee]

My dear Tikkun,

My advice is that you cannot allow yourself to be so sensitive to what everyone says on this forum ... then you cannot have a proper discussion on any new forum.

Why are we apprehensive about Abrahimic people ? This because of their entirely opposite way of thinking ... a highly closed typical mindset .. they think that Only their religion is the best .... all others are going to hell. Because they never talk on the basis of logic ... because they are not ready to question what is written in their scriptures ... they are just blind followers to whatever is written in their books. I asked you some questions in another thread but you didn't answer.

This is not the only reason. Many of the Abrahmics that we have met here on this forum have a hidden agenda ... to sell their religious viewpoint ... which mostly is too childish for most of the Hindus.

Still, we have two regular Christians who keep visiting this forum and sharing their viewpoints. You may like to read a very informative thread, "Creation and Advaita" in the Advaita forum http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=846 started by Nirotu who is a Christian by faith. This thread will give you some deep insghts into the core of Hindu philosophy.

OM

[Tikkun Olam]

My dear Tikkun,

Why are we apprehensive about Abrahimic people ? This because of their entirely opposite way of thinking ... a highly closed typical mindset .. they think that Only their religion is the best .... all others are going to hell. Because they never talk on the basis of logic ... because they are not ready to question what is written in their scriptures ... they are just blind followers to whatever is written in their books. I asked you some questions in another thread but you didn't answer.

This is not the only reason. Many of the Abrahmics that we have met here on this forum have a hidden agenda ... to sell their religious viewpoint ... which mostly is too childish for most of the Hindus.
OM

Everything above is incorrect regarding the Jew. Maybe if you believe me we CAN have discussions without people saying "Moses this, Abraham that". I didn't come here to talk about Moses so if people don't bring him up, he will go away.

These are along things I've said before, but you don't seem to believe me. Here they are again;

1) We don't believe in eternal damnation, and we don't think you're going to Hell because you don't believe in what we believe.
2) We don't have a hidden agenda, and we don't try to convert people. We've spent thousands of years keeping to ourselves (and we still do), and even though others have unfortunately forced their own beliefs on people, they were not us.
3) Judaism is all about logic and a respect for knowledge. If you don't believe me, read the Talmud. Even though there's only 13 million Jews, there are 4 billion people on this planet that talk about our scriptures but don't know what they're talking about. (In the words of Jewish comedian Lewis Black, "It's not your fault, because it's not your book.") Don't judge us by them. What if the Chinese took the Vedas and started interpreting them in a way that you didn't agree with? Would you want people to listen to the Chinese interpretations, or yours?

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Tikkun: Since this is a Hindu forum, there is only one legitimate reason for Abrahamics to come here, and that is to ask questions about Hinduism. This may be because they want to explore a bit because they feel a need to become more tolerant through knowledge. It may also be because they are disillusioned with their own faith, and are sincerely seeking a new path, or new knowledge. Most of us here have no problem with that. Every beginner on the seeker's path needs a few guidelines, and we are happy to provide that.

But problems such as you are experiencing now often come up, because the said questioner keeps referring back to their previous faith, as that is their only reference point. So you, for example, ask questions only in a comparative context, in your case with Judaism.

Most of us here don't like the comparative context. We prefer to have Sanatana Dharma stand alone. The same its true of all the western based commentators on our scriptures. They do it from a western mind. It doesn't work well.

When a traveller travels to far off lands, they often see the mountains and plants in only a comparitive view. "That mountain looks like Mount AtHome." Of course, this is a natural tendency. We all do it. But if I visit someone in Kenya, does he really want to hear how the Rockies are different than Kilimanjaro? Probably not. He wants me to appreciate Kilimanjaro for exactly what it is.

So please start asking your questions of us, without coming back with the argument or comparison to your faith. We're all happy to answer.

Aum Namasivaya

[devotee]

Everything above is incorrect regarding the Jew. Maybe if you believe me we CAN have discussions without people saying "Moses this, Abraham that". I didn't come here to talk about Moses so if people don't bring him up, he will go away.

These are along things I've said before, but you don't seem to believe me. Here they are again;

1) We don't believe in eternal damnation, and we don't think you're going to Hell because you don't believe in what we believe.
2) We don't have a hidden agenda, and we don't try to convert people. We've spent thousands of years keeping to ourselves (and we still do), and even though others have unfortunately forced their own beliefs on people, they were not us.
3) Judaism is all about logic and a respect for knowledge. If you don't believe me, read the Talmud. Even though there's only 13 million Jews, there are 4 billion people on this planet that talk about our scriptures but don't know what they're talking about. (In the words of Jewish comedian Lewis Black, "It's not your fault, because it's not your book.") Don't judge us by them. What if the Chinese took the Vedas and started interpreting them in a way that you didn't agree with? Would you want people to listen to the Chinese interpretations, or yours?

Thanks, it gives a proper discussion a chance. :)

OM

[Tikkun Olam]

Vannakkam Tikkun: Since this is a Hindu forum, there is only one legitimate reason for Abrahamics to come here, and that is to ask questions about Hinduism. This may be because they want to explore a bit because they feel a need to become more tolerant through knowledge. It may also be because they are disillusioned with their own faith, and are sincerely seeking a new path, or new knowledge. Most of us here have no problem with that. Every beginner on the seeker's path needs a few guidelines, and we are happy to provide that.

But problems such as you are experiencing now often come up, because the said questioner keeps referring back to their previous faith, as that is their only reference point. So you, for example, ask questions only in a comparative context, in your case with Judaism.

Most of us here don't like the comparative context. We prefer to have Sanatana Dharma stand alone. The same its true of all the western based commentators on our scriptures. They do it from a western mind. It doesn't work well.

When a traveller travels to far off lands, they often see the mountains and plants in only a comparitive view. "That mountain looks like Mount AtHome." Of course, this is a natural tendency. We all do it. But if I visit someone in Kenya, does he really want to hear how the Rockies are different than Kilimanjaro? Probably not. He wants me to appreciate Kilimanjaro for exactly what it is.

So please start asking your questions of us, without coming back with the argument or comparison to your faith. We're all happy to answer.

Aum Namasivaya

I was trying to do that with the Vegetarian/Dietary thread, but it was other people who brought up my faith. An important point I made was that our law accepts other dietary beliefs for other people. A Jew is allowed to sell pork to someone who wants to eat pork, even though he can't eat it himself. Even in ancient Israel, when Canaanites would come to their towns, the Canaanites were allowed to eat non-kosher foods there. I think even our written laws are open-minded because of that.

[Eastern Mind]

I was trying to do that with the Vegetarian/Dietary thread, but it was other people who brought up my faith.

vannakkam: Yes, I realise that. But you were more than happy to then oblige them in the comparative discussion, as with the parts in the quoted portion above I deleted for you. At least that's how I saw it. Any more questions of Hindus on a Hindu forum? :)

Aum Namasivaya

[sm78]

Vannakkam Tikkun: Since this is a Hindu forum, there is only one legitimate reason for Abrahamics to come here, and that is to ask questions about Hinduism. This may be because they want to explore a bit because they feel a need to become more tolerant through knowledge. It may also be because they are disillusioned with their own faith, and are sincerely seeking a new path, or new knowledge. Most of us here have no problem with that. Every beginner on the seeker's path needs a few guidelines, and we are happy to provide that.

But problems such as you are experiencing now often come up, because the said questioner keeps referring back to their previous faith, as that is their only reference point. So you, for example, ask questions only in a comparative context, in your case with Judaism.

Most of us here don't like the comparative context. We prefer to have Sanatana Dharma stand alone. The same its true of all the western based commentators on our scriptures. They do it from a western mind. It doesn't work well.

When a traveller travels to far off lands, they often see the mountains and plants in only a comparitive view. "That mountain looks like Mount AtHome." Of course, this is a natural tendency. We all do it. But if I visit someone in Kenya, does he really want to hear how the Rockies are different than Kilimanjaro? Probably not. He wants me to appreciate Kilimanjaro for exactly what it is.

So please start asking your questions of us, without coming back with the argument or comparison to your faith. We're all happy to answer.

Aum Namasivaya

Whenever I visited a foreign country, I was always asked how I see their country in contrast to my own. When somebody comes to India, unless I have a hidden anguish about India and fear that it would only make bad impressions (which I often do), I would ask how they see my country vis-a-vis theirs.

So, I think to an extent reference to own views should be tolerated as it is most natural.

Now a days I see more and more people in this forum highly suspicious and united against even faint smell of Abraham-ism. It iss good in a way that Hindus (at least in forum) are getting united. But, I don't feel it is for right cause.

My main problem with arm chair right wingers in this forum and elsewhere is that they are just very happy to find scapegoats while the mad elephants keeps rampaging. They are doing nothing more than inflating their own already over blown egos by constantly harping over trivial issues, like an odd painting there and an odd tattoo here, or a Jew posing in a forum. To top it all, the only basis I see in their words is a solid ground of hatred. There is no pardon for hatred in Hinduism.

Whenever, I point out obvious flaws and self defeating nature of their self inflating arm chair wannabe hindutva activities (I very well fear that a TTA will spoil his pants when he sees a Moslem with a sword), all I see is hate spewing foul language. Even if the majority of this forum have given into this nuisance in name of Hinduism, I don't see it anything more than a nuisance.

Sorry, my rambling may not have nothing to do with this particular Poster and particular problems of his Abrahamic background, but the few posts I just read seem to recycle this tiring nonsense once again.

[Sahasranama]

It is simply unfortunate that abrahamism comes up so often on a forum that is dedicated to Hinduism. It comes from two sides, from the abrahamics that register on this forum and want to chat about their religion, but also from people constantly comparing Hinduism to abrahamic religions. While universalists will try to focus on similarities (C) and trivialize the differences, over-argumentative Hindus will try to cut of (C) from the circle even though (C) is also part of Hinduism. They might say that something should't be part of Hinduism (A), because it is also part of (B), this is also silly. In my opinion the focus of a Hindu forum should be mostly on (A) and not so much about anything that is outside (A), unless it directly effects (A), like politics and history. Everything else is more suitable for the "canteen" or other places on the internet.

http://www.sdcoe.net/score/actbank/Venn.GIF

A lot of people don't talk about religion and politics when they want to keep friends. But since this is a religious forum, especially dedicated to Hinduism, a lot of things will be said that can offend people. We also have to evaluate what is the purpose of a forum like this. I don't think it is to convince abrahamics that they are wrong or evil. I also really doubt that many people here are interested to learn about the details of abrahamic religions. So it is normal to ask a new member who is a follower of an abrahamic religion for his motives of registering. Are you here to argue with us or trying to teach us about your own religion. Sorry buddy, but that does not interest us. The value of a forum like this lies in learning about Hinduism.

If we want a forum that is dedicated to Hinduism, we need to do two things. First make clear to people that this is a Hindu forum and excessive posts about Jesus or the Talmud are not appreciated here (This can be done TTA-style or politely, whatever works is fine). Second, make an effort ourselves not to mention the abrahamic religions so much when we are discussing Hinduism, unless we are talking about historical and political subjects that effect India/ Hinduism. There is an obsession going on with comparing everything with the abrahamic religions from many Hindu writers and forum posters and I see no value in more posts on this topic. It would be more interesting to look at Hinduism through other glasses like other eastern religions or even western philosophy. But mostly, looking at Hinduism is best done through the eyes of a Hindu. It also a sign of insecurity to give too much attention to how others percieve you.

[Jainarayan]

This may sound naive and overly simplistic, but I think the best thing to do, hard as it may be because the posts raise people's ire, is to ignore and avoid threads that are blatantly Abrahamic. I don't mean posts like "Hi, my name is Faisal ibn al Saud, I'm a Muslim but I want to learn about Hinduism". Or, at the very least they could be moved to the Abrahamic section and duked out there when they start to go sour. At least they'd be corraled, and can be avoided. Rarely on any internet religiously or politically charged conversation is anyone's mind going to be changed.

Again, maybe overly simplistic, but just an observation. :dunno: