Why should I work?

[cybernetics]

Namaste all,
I'm a B.Tech (Mechanical Engineering) student. And I've been in depression for quite some time now. I started reading Bhagavad Gita one year back. But I'm still confused. I have been a good science student but now I don't feel like studying anything because men are doing nothing else than exploiting our continuously diminishing energy resources and is using it for something which doesn't lead to us a higher truth. They use it for creating new weapons, exploring outer space which cannot reduce the suffering of birth, disease, old age and death as mentioned in our holy Gita. Arjuna was encouraged to fight against adharma. But what about us who are encouraged to build more and more material things and do nothing for establishing dharma. I've thought a lot about it myself that whatever the result is, my duty is to do my job but that doesn't create any spark inside me to stand up and start studying. Studies are becoming a burden day by day.
Please help me with some answers that could kindle a spark within me like arjuna to get back to the enthusiastic life which I once had at the beginning.
Thank you.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

What you have above all is choice. You get to choose. Perhaps a shift in attention to bio-medical where things are made to improve another's life ( bionic arms, legs, eyes, synthetic skin).


Because you are human, God has given you power to think and decide what is good and bad. Therefore, you can do the best possible kind of action. You should never consider yourself weak or a fallen creature.
Whatever may have happened up till now may be because you didn’t know, but now be careful... after getting a human body, if you don’t reach God, then you have sold a diamond at the price of spinach.
Svāmī brahmānanda sarasvatī was Śaṅkarācārya of Jyotirmath from 1941-1953.

praṇām

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

My advise to you would be to stay focus, finish your education, it is very important in this rat race. you may choose what your conscious tell you.
Gita says Gahana karmana gati, you can not remain inactive, do your duty that is what Gita teaches us.

It is good you are worried about the state of the world

Jai Shree Krishan

[Jainarayan]

Namaste.


hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

What you have above all is choice. You get to choose. Perhaps a shift in attention to bio-medical where things are made to improve another's life ( bionic arms, legs, eyes, synthetic skin).

I could not agree with this more. Those are wonderful suggestions. There is little better or more satisfying, in my view, than doing something to better others' lives, be those lives human or animal.

If I could do it all over again I might become a police officer ("To Protect and Serve); or a veterinarian; or some other profession like those.

I almost envy the o.p. for the choices he has ahead of him. If I only knew then what I know now!

[Mana]

Namasté cybernetics

Pleased to meet you, and I'm sorry to hear of your unease.

Why did you chose your particular field? Has this been a dream for you from a young age; maybe it was an intellectual decision? Or your parents unfulfilled dreams?

There is a right time for everything, and generally speaking things happen as they should, in order for us to learn. The order being the key word here. If we try to do things in the wrong order we may feel friction.

Tell us a little more about your predicament, not the worlds predicament; your own. We can move on to the worlds predicament once we know more of where you are now. Above all don't worry, perfectly normal to be feeling this way, to my mind it is a good sign; a sign that you have compassion and a heart.

praNAma

mana

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste all,
I'm a B.Tech (Mechanical Engineering) student. And I've been in depression for quite some time now. I started reading Bhagavad Gita one year back. But I'm still confused. I have been a good science student but now I don't feel like studying anything because men are doing nothing else than exploiting our continuously diminishing energy resources and is using it for something which doesn't lead to us a higher truth. They use it for creating new weapons, exploring outer space which cannot reduce the suffering of birth, disease, old age and death as mentioned in our holy Gita. Arjuna was encouraged to fight against adharma. But what about us who are encouraged to build more and more material things and do nothing for establishing dharma. I've thought a lot about it myself that whatever the result is, my duty is to do my job but that doesn't create any spark inside me to stand up and start studying. Studies are becoming a burden day by day.
Please help me with some answers that could kindle a spark within me like arjuna to get back to the enthusiastic life which I once had at the beginning.
Thank you.

Vannakkam cybernetics: Others have given wonderful answers. I'll try to add a bit ... Your profession is by no means the only one that has the dilemma of how to use it within dharma. Criminal law, for example, in many countries, means defending someone to the best of your ability, EVEN if you know the person is guilty. So don't feel alone.

I see two things here. One is that the technology doesn't have to be used either way. in the origin, gunpowder was only to create beautiful fireworks. So the inventor couldn't be held responsible for its later adharmic himsa use. You shouldn't feel responsible for someone else's decision. The second is just supporting what Yajvan had already said, except to say that there are loads of other dharmic uses within mechanical engineering, not just in biomedicine. What about a better water pump for poverty stricken areas. A better water filter? Uses in renewable energy like smaller more effficient solar panelling, or better wind or tidal turbines turbines. There are many areas that could use some improvement. Smart people like yourself are needed to invent and better stuff. Many of us don't have such unique gifts. best wishes.

Aum Namasivaya

[cybernetics]

Thanks to all of you. I can't tell you how pleased I am after reading these wonderful answers and I think that I have come to the right place.
But actually I thought myself about it a lot the very same night I posted the question. And I got relieved to much extent.
I think, where we are headed is not in our hands it's just the result of our past deeds. If God has made us to suffer for all the years to come (as we all know this is Kali Yuga) then we should accept that as prasad and think it as an opportunity to purify ourselves.
But the principles of Bhagavad Gita are eternal. So there is still no other way than to work under Krishna Consciousness. What we can do is earn money from this material world and without worrying much about ourselves utilize it for spreading Krishna Consciousness. But spreading Krishna Consciousness is misunderstood by most of us. They do charity but charity, as it is written in Bhagavad Gita, is a rather a punya karma which does not free us from this material cycle of life and death.

[devotee]

Namaste all,
I'm a B.Tech (Mechanical Engineering) student. And I've been in depression for quite some time now. I started reading Bhagavad Gita one year back. But I'm still confused. I have been a good science student but now I don't feel like studying anything because men are doing nothing else than exploiting our continuously diminishing energy resources and is using it for something which doesn't lead to us a higher truth. They use it for creating new weapons, exploring outer space which cannot reduce the suffering of birth, disease, old age and death as mentioned in our holy Gita. Arjuna was encouraged to fight against adharma. But what about us who are encouraged to build more and more material things and do nothing for establishing dharma. I've thought a lot about it myself that whatever the result is, my duty is to do my job but that doesn't create any spark inside me to stand up and start studying. Studies are becoming a burden day by day.
Please help me with some answers that could kindle a spark within me like arjuna to get back to the enthusiastic life which I once had at the beginning.
Thank you.

The question is "Why should I work ?" & not why man is creating new weapons etc. Bhagwan Krishna says in Gita that "Involving in action is better than inaction. If you do not act, even the journey of this body (i.e. life) will not be possible. Therefore, you work".

Now, when Bhagwan Krishna Himself advises us to work, we must follow His advice. OK ? :)

OM

[SanathanaDharma]

Dear Friend,
Three points define the answer to your question
- Understanding that fact that we are an instrument only
- Hence, doing nis-svartha[selfless] nish-kaama[without expectation of results] karma
- Effects of not doing the duty

now lets take a very simple imaginary story.....imagine there is a bus driver who drives a bus from one point in the city to the city airport, every day very very early in the morning....very early in the morning one or two passengers
rarely board this bus as most of the people in the city own a car...
on one Sunday very early morning, this driver, who thinks his daily routine is not exciting, starts to wonder that sky will not fall down in case he goes late on that day or in fact skip the first trip itself, because he sees no actuall motivation in that...
please note that making the early morning trip is supposed to be his duty....

now, on the very same day, a doctor in that city, whose car is broken, is waiting for this bus as he needs to catch the early morning flight to go to another city where he has to perform an important surgery to cure a very rich person, who is not only very rich but does a lot of charity without absolutely any publicity and no one knows that he was planning to donate a huge amount of money to the victims of an earthquake... and in order to do that he has to get operated and survive in the very first place...please note the end point of this chain is "completely dharma" as many who are in need are going to be helped by that rich man....

so, coming back to our bus driver, he has decided not to do his duty, unaware of the effects or consequences...the doctor who does duty according to dharma is waiting for the bus, the rich man's possibility of doing his duty of dharma is depending on the doctor who is ready to do his duty but is waiting for the driver who has no motivation or spark
to do his duty....

so, a question arises now....if the bus driver will not drive, will the rich man die?...will those devastated in the earthquake not get any help?....well, this is where the first point comes into picture...
"Understanding that fact that we are an instrument only"
as Sri Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita, we are only nimmitha maatra.....instrument alone...every instrument is
assigned a specific task...every instrument is provided with the capability to carry out the specific task...in case one instrument does not do its specific task, He creates another instrument for that task....incase
the bus driver does not drive, He makes sure a taxi passes by the street where the doctor is waiting, thus making sure the doctor reaches the airport....the taxi driver becomes the alternative instrument....

the point that the bus driver completely missed is the second one mentioned..."doing nis-svartha[selfless] nish-kaama[without expectation of results] karma"...the driver, thought "only" about himself and not about the
passengers...the driver thought only about his lack of motivation, due to lack of attractive fruits of the work...

that comes to the third point....the bus driver, by being selfish and by not doing his duty, only added the result of inaction to his account, for which he will have to suffer later....this is how one starts accumulating the karma phala..

my dear friend, you say you are a mechanical engineering student, its quite possible that if you depend completely on His support and
study hard,which is you duty as a student, you could get into a good automobile company and one day you could design a new car...and when this car is released into the market, it may provide employment for thousands of people who manufacture it, sell it, etc[all doing their dharma]...
it may provide yet another vehicle for those road side mechanics who make their living by repairing and servicing cars, which is under dharma...so by doing you duty as an instrument, offering it to Him, you are already following dharma....

as Sri Krishna says, doing the karma is only our adhikara....offer everything to Him, what other motivation do you need other than doing your duty for Paramathma....

[cybernetics]

@everyone
Actually I'm new to this forum so the positioning of my posts is quite haphazard as there is a lag between the time I write them and the time they are actually made available.. So, please bear with me. And I just saw that most of you people are around 3 times older than me. I feel myself privileged to have a discussion with so much experienced people.

@SanathanaDharma (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=2360)
Sir,
Though by God's grace that dust of delusion is almost gone as I've said in my last comment but since these are very important matters I wont leave this thread..:)
Your argument is acceptable and that story of a bus driver also seems acceptable.
But, what I was saying is quite different. I'll try to make it clear with that same story of yours. Suppose that the bus driver is not reluctant for an extra trip in the morning but what he is really concerned about the wastage of fuel..i.e carrying only one or two people in a BUS is surely wastage of fuel. So, although he is very clear about his duty, that is to take people from one place to the other, but considering the wastage he refuses to take another trip.. will that again be wrong..
So, same is with me. Actually what people are doing today is just for the material benefits. There is still no guarantee whether that person will be saved by the doctor coz ultimately it's in the hands of God.
I think we are on a road to annihilation and our path has just begun. What we now need to do, as i said in my last post, is to spread dharma so that more and more people could be able to surrender and submit themselves to God. But, that surely doesn't mean to go to Himalayas for rest of the life. We don't have to perform our duty blindly but we have to do it in Krishna Consciousness and we have to do only that thing which is good for dharma...

[cybernetics]

Thank You Sir for your invaluable and motivational reply.
My predicament is that I'm overwhelmed by the fact that this material world is just the reflection of real (spiritual) world and the knowledge we are given is just about physical world which is not true knowledge and these are not my words, it's written in Bhagavad Gita. But I seem to have found out my way as you would see if you read other posts of mine or you must have already read them b'coz my posts are not in order..

[cybernetics]

Thank You Sir

[Mana]

Namasté cybernetics

Just reading through your posts, have you read any Douglas Adams?

You might know of Marvin?

I highly recommend the Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy to you. I think that you need a laugh!

praNAma

mana

[cybernetics]

Namasté cybernetics

Just reading through your posts, have you read any Douglas Adams?

You might know of Marvin?

I highly recommend the Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy to you. I think that you need a laugh!

praNAma

mana

No, I haven't read it. Could you please tell me what is it all about. But, to tell you the truth I'm not depressed now and have faith in God that He's always there with me. It's not that I am not enjoying my life. In fact I am enjoying it more that most of us can.
But still if I can learn something new or if it is worth reading I'll give it a shot but do tell me how does it help..

[sm78]

I highly recommend the Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy to you. I think that you need a laugh

I would highly recommend HHGG to anybody who can read english. Good suggestion.:)

[internationalhindu]

hi cybernetics

Firstly i must say that i am pleased to see a young person who has such concern for dharma...that is the first and most important step....

I believe the answer to your query may be in trying to reach a balance...a balance between practical life and spiritual life...Lord Krishna has said that 'the one who performs his dharma is most dear to me'...each of us have various duties/dharma that we acquire as being part of a family or society...a father has to protect the family, a mother has to take care of the husband and kids, kids have to grow up and take care of their parents...this is a very basic level of duties that we acquire by birth and need to be fulfilled...

the next level of your duties is to be useful to mankind and society...you have been fortunate enough to have gained engineering knowledge unlike the thousands of others who are not even able to afford a day's meal...hence you have a great opportunity to make use of your profession to build useful devices, make money and help others as much as you can...i know you may feel that 'money' is not to be desired and that we should not go behind it...but, we have to realize that in today's world we definitely need money to live and to help others...making money is not evil, if the intention behind it is selfless...you need to be able to stand firmly on your own feet if you want to give a hand and help another person...hence i would suggest that you keep the desire to help mankind alive in your heart and work hard to be successful, so that you can help society.....you have to realize that one man alone cannot change the world directly, but a single individual can inspire and motivate millions...hence through your actions and your life you can set an example and do your part in saving mankind....


as for the spiritual side..you have to be practical and understand that the whole world works on an inter-dependant balance system..for eg-the trader is dependant on the farmer for food and the farmer is dependant on the trader for other items...similarly we each have our own duties to perform and can definitely grow spiritually along with it...i presume the dear members of HD forum would agree with me that there is no single method that takes us closer to god, each different way is unique and successful...it is not necessary that one has to do severe penance to please god or get inner peace...if done with devotion, then even a single minute of sincere prayer can take you closer...i would suggest you read this simple story which will make my point clear Who Is A Devotee-by Lord Vishnu (http://onlyhinduism.blogspot.com/2011/10/who-is-devotee-by-lord-vishnu.html)

Hence i would suggest that you fulfill your duties as a son, an engineer, a fellow citizen and a child of god with equal zeal and interest...since each one of them is equally significant in the eyes of god...bring back your interest in studies, since constant learning and the thirst for wisdom is the trait of a successful man...make sure you make your life one that will later be looked upon by millions as a perfect example of how to balance all duties of an individual and still attain spiritual bliss...

Sorry for the long post...pls do forgive any words of ignorance present...i myself am a young engineer and just told you how i feel you can solve your dilemma...may god bless you

Om

[Kumar_Das]

"Why should I work?"

Unfortunately not all of us are Jews.

[cybernetics]

hi cybernetics

Firstly i must say that i am pleased to see a young person who has such concern for dharma...that is the first and most important step....

I believe the answer to your query may be in trying to reach a balance...a balance between practical life and spiritual life...Lord Krishna has said that 'the one who performs his dharma is most dear to me'...each of us have various duties/dharma that we acquire as being part of a family or society...a father has to protect the family, a mother has to take care of the husband and kids, kids have to grow up and take care of their parents...this is a very basic level of duties that we acquire by birth and need to be fulfilled...

the next level of your duties is to be useful to mankind and society...you have been fortunate enough to have gained engineering knowledge unlike the thousands of others who are not even able to afford a day's meal...hence you have a great opportunity to make use of your profession to build useful devices, make money and help others as much as you can...i know you may feel that 'money' is not to be desired and that we should not go behind it...but, we have to realize that in today's world we definitely need money to live and to help others...making money is not evil, if the intention behind it is selfless...you need to be able to stand firmly on your own feet if you want to give a hand and help another person...hence i would suggest that you keep the desire to help mankind alive in your heart and work hard to be successful, so that you can help society.....you have to realize that one man alone cannot change the world directly, but a single individual can inspire and motivate millions...hence through your actions and your life you can set an example and do your part in saving mankind....


as for the spiritual side..you have to be practical and understand that the whole world works on an inter-dependant balance system..for eg-the trader is dependant on the farmer for food and the farmer is dependant on the trader for other items...similarly we each have our own duties to perform and can definitely grow spiritually along with it...i presume the dear members of HD forum would agree with me that there is no single method that takes us closer to god, each different way is unique and successful...it is not necessary that one has to do severe penance to please god or get inner peace...if done with devotion, then even a single minute of sincere prayer can take you closer...i would suggest you read this simple story which will make my point clear Who Is A Devotee-by Lord Vishnu (http://onlyhinduism.blogspot.com/2011/10/who-is-devotee-by-lord-vishnu.html)

Hence i would suggest that you fulfill your duties as a son, an engineer, a fellow citizen and a child of god with equal zeal and interest...since each one of them is equally significant in the eyes of god...bring back your interest in studies, since constant learning and the thirst for wisdom is the trait of a successful man...make sure you make your life one that will later be looked upon by millions as a perfect example of how to balance all duties of an individual and still attain spiritual bliss...

Sorry for the long post...pls do forgive any words of ignorance present...i myself am a young engineer and just told you how i feel you can solve your dilemma...may god bless you

Om

:goodpost:
This was amazing. The story of farmer is so true and now I have even more confidence in my understanding of the balance between spiritual and physical world.

[SanathanaDharma]

Dear cybernetics,

Please do not address me as "Sir" as that creates a formality gap in the conversation...:)

First of all i am very happy that the words of Sri Krishna, filled with nectar, are clearing your doubts...

"But, what I was saying is quite different. I'll try to make it clear with that same story of yours. Suppose that the bus driver is not reluctant for an extra trip in the morning but what he is really concerned about the wastage of fuel..i.e carrying only one or two people in a BUS is surely wastage of fuel. So, although he is very clear about his duty, that is to take people from one place to the other, but considering the wastage he refuses to take another trip.. will that again be wrong.."

I am also happy because while writing the previous post, i thought about the exact scenario mentioned by you, but did not include it as i thought it would be better to give that if you reply...:)...

Sri Krishna has answered every possible question we get in Bhagavad Gita, all we need to do is understand His beautiful words carefully...Bhagavad Gita 18.48

saha-jam karma kaunteya
sa-dosam api na tyajet
sarvarambha hi dosena
dhumenagnir ivavrtah

karma saha-jam na tyajet sa-dosham api
duty which is assigned[born] along with the instrument[us], should not be given up, even if there are faults in it...
sarvaarambhaah aavrthah doshena agni iva dhumena
every materialistic endeavor is covered by fault just like fire is covered by smoke....

this is such an important verse which actually answers your question completely...we as an instrument have been assigned a particular set of tasks based on our previous conditioning and our previous actions....its very much
true that whatever task we are assigned now will have some or other fault or dosha...as nothing materialistic is perfect...just as the purest agni is also covered by smoke, the tasks we do surely have some faults...

"So, same is with me. Actually what people are doing today is just for the material benefits. There is still no guarantee
whether that person will be saved by the doctor coz ultimately it's in the hands of God. "

Very well said and this statement again answers your question....people who work only for materialistic benefits will definitely reap the results of such actions...no one can escape the laws....but then as Paramathma said, its just the duty of the Bus driver to drive the bus, even though its covered with the fault that there is some wastage of fuel...but what actually is
most important is in order to get rid of ourselves from the results of materialistic activities which are in some way or the other filled with faults, is to offer everything to Him... by working for Him....

"We don't have to perform our duty blindly but we have to do it in Krishna Consciousness and we have to do only that thing which is good for dharma..."
Again very well said...the term "dharma" actually defines that boundary or filter which makes sure we do not misuse the verse 18.48 and start doing
things blindly....

my dear friend in case you need more details regarding the types of actions, types of doers and the results associated, please read this detailed post http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=55935&postcount=5

[cybernetics]

Dear cybernetics,

Please do not address me as "Sir" as that creates a formality gap in the conversation...:)

Okay SanathanaDharma, but there is one doubt about it that whether it really creates a formality gap or I should have written Sir/Ma'am because there's no gender indicated in any of the profiles..;)

Jokes apart, I feel so good by being here with people like you. It's a feeling far better than being on any other forum or stupid things like Facebook..
And no need to mention how good the link u posted is.. Hoping to share more stuff of this kind with you..
I don't know much stories but I would like to recommend Krishna Das' Music to all those who don't know about him. This may be obvious but I came to know about him just an year ago..

[internationalhindu]

Dear Cybernetics

Delighted to hear of your increase in confidence...It is a great step towards your growth...May god always support and bless you

Om

[cybernetics]

Namasté cybernetics

Just reading through your posts, have you read any Douglas Adams?

You might know of Marvin?

I highly recommend the Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy to you. I think that you need a laugh!

praNAma

mana
Hey! Just saw that movie...
Please proceed with what u had to say..

[Tandav]

Cybernetics: great question. I can fully understand your predicament, for my own background is very similar to yours. You have arrived at this predicament while still a student, good for you!; I arrived at it much later in life.

My 2 cents:
There is no easy solution to your question. It is one thing to follow the advice in the Gita, but know that you are in for the long haul and that's OK.

Also, know that in this day and age, this will be a Hard way. Your friends will counsel you to take the easy road, your family will want you 'become something' that they can brag about, your work will meet with obstacles of every variety. These need not happen, but the probability is High. I suggest a few things that might help: 1) Seek out and join successful people who have maintained their integrity and vision despite the odds - look at the best NGOs, and get some backing from them for your own ideas. 2) Get an advanced degree; it will help you focus some of your broad learning (a B.Tech is still very broad), put you in touch with capable mentors. See if you like fields that can help you become influential in the larger society; maybe International Relations or Law. 3) If you have time, teach (maybe kids or youngsters from challenged sections of society); it will again influence your own outlook. As I said, my background is similar to yours. I tried ideas 1) and 2), but not 3) and they have helped quite a bit in shaping my worldview.

You are in an enviable position, really, current predicaments and sleepless nights notwithstanding.

Cheers!
T

[smaranam]

Namaste Cybernetics,

What a wealth of ideas from one and all. I was also thinking of NGOs.

I suppose you are into Krishna Consciousness as you mentioned it and from the way you talk about the material and spiritual world.

First, keeping Bh. Gita aside, how much are you interested in your chosen field ? Suppose everyone around you suddenly becomes eco-friendly promoting a greener earth, would you like to
a) join hands and contribute, with KRshNa always in the heart
b) go inwards with navadha bhakti all day, be the earth green or not.

If today your answer is (a) , it means earth not being green is not just an excuse to escape the material world. Then you have just opened the door of opportunities of civic duty in KRshNa consciousness. Like Ambarish Maharaj.

Shrila PrabhupAd touches on the Krishna Conscious way of doing everything.

Why not kill 2-3-n birds in one stone - as KRshNa always does.

If you can...
* Take up a green-earth-friendly job contributing your tech skills
* Make it clear you will keep moderate hours at work (not 60 hrs a week!)
* Earn money via nishkAm karma with KrshNa always in the heart,
* Contribute ideas for greener products/services in the company you work for (you must be familiar with green-earth architecture)
* If possible volunteer your technical skills towards green facilities in rural India (more electricity, new-technology greener lamps, pest control, thru' pen, voice and action), and talk to them about KRshNa too !
* Donate towards Food for Life and cow protection
* Buy a set of BGs, other books, magazines, and give them to co-workers, friends, relatives - IF THEY ARE OPEN TO IT.
* Discuss spirituality with friends, help them stay Krishna Conscious and not waste life/time in mundane things

Where do you think you are then ? In Vraj-VRndAvan of course ! No it is not that Utopian and you know it. By throwing all petty and mundane ego-centric thinking out of the window, we increase efficiency N-fold, opening the door to KRshNa's energy.

While we are here, we acknowledge KRshNa's gifts of talent, intellect, wealth, family, friends, community ...
and become His pen, flute, voice, hand...

When is material world an obstacle ?
a) When a person is too ambitiously attached to career, politics or material desires - greed to collect more than necessary, mundane social endeavors (competing in the social circles), etc. None of these things seem to be the case with you.

b) When the soul is in utter seperation of KRshNa to the point of being dysfunctional - or in the mood like the six Goswamis who forgot to eat and sleep. Are you in that state ?

You are starting out on the right foot, and KRshNa will be pleased.
Imagine if everyone simply joined ashrams, at least 70% will have made the wrong decision too soon, and all these things above would not be possible. The corporate world will keep drawing on resources, the villages will remain as they are, and so many people in rural, urban and sub-urban areas will not receive KRshNa anyways - they will be going their merry way in material pursuits. A wall preventing communication between the spiritual and material. Moreover, where will the resources for the Ashram come from ?

Hare KRshNa

[kallol]

A basic question. Thanks Cybernetics for bringing it up in an innocent way.

Welcome to the forum.

Now to the topic.

1. How does work or what form of work helps in spirituality ?

2. How does it or How you can align it to the needs of present day ?

3. How can we also define the negetive sides (as Cyber indicated) wrt the spirituality or karma theory ?

Did you (Cyber) have all these answers ?

Only a strong conviction will help in dischaging your work rightly which is also aligned spiritually and not bringing negetives into you or society.

Love and best wishes

[arjunah]

Namaste all,
I'm a B.Tech (Mechanical Engineering) student. And I've been in depression for quite some time now. I started reading Bhagavad Gita one year back. But I'm still confused. I have been a good science student but now I don't feel like studying anything because men are doing nothing else than exploiting our continuously diminishing energy resources and is using it for something which doesn't lead to us a higher truth. They use it for creating new weapons, exploring outer space which cannot reduce the suffering of birth, disease, old age and death as mentioned in our holy Gita. Arjuna was encouraged to fight against adharma. But what about us who are encouraged to build more and more material things and do nothing for establishing dharma. I've thought a lot about it myself that whatever the result is, my duty is to do my job but that doesn't create any spark inside me to stand up and start studying. Studies are becoming a burden day by day.
Please help me with some answers that could kindle a spark within me like arjuna to get back to the enthusiastic life which I once had at the beginning.
Thank you.

I can very much relate with you. As far as I remember, after discovering spirituality was something important to me, I would occasionally become depressed. I think this is a way of our higher self telling us we need to make a change in how we are living our life if we want to step closer to our goal instead of stepping further away.

I graduated from University a few years ago and have worked a few jobs. I made some OK money but would usually be miserable. I just felt like I was working so someone else could be rich.

I decided to join the military this summer for several reasons. I am going to try and keep in mind that I am serving for the betterment of all humanity and I hope this will give my life purpose.

Maybe you could enlist with the Peace Corps after you graduate? Keep that in mind as you finish school and work towards that. Don't give up on your degree, you already put so much work into it. It would be a shame to put all that work and not really have anything to show for it.

[shantiseeker]

A very interesting thread indeed. it brings up many branches of thought. It reminds me of that fact that in a medical facility, the housekeeping staff may not feel they're a high and mighty surgeon saving lives, but a medical patient needs a comfortable clean bed. There are many parts to a whole system just in one setting, let alone the global picture.

[Mana]

Namaste cybernetics,

I apologise not to have replied sooner; I had not seen your response, and this thread has not been highlighted in my browser, I seem to be having trouble with both, my absent mind and an apparent irregularity in the browser. Not to worry though; we'll get there in the end, of that I am sure.

I wasn't implying anything at all, you remind me of myself in the questions that you ask as to what work to do. Being of a scientific mind; I thought that you would enjoy these radio plays on many levels. They are rather good for a little silly inspiration, inspiration which can at times be very enlightening.

I have some quite strong views on depression (founded in experience), Its role and its effect. This will not answer your original question; why should you work. You could also ask your self; how shall I work?

You cannot stop time from flowing, you must work to counter even this. In stillness there is action and in action avoidance of action. You must learn to judge which is best suited to your environment and future.

I will expand; if you are interested.

I would however, first draw your attention to my previous questions. (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=73276&postcount=5)

praNAma

mana

[kallol]

1. We work to change the state of my Mind

2. We work to keep the interactive medium (the body) functioning properly

3. We work to serve my desires

4. We work to serve the society

5. We work to gain knowledge for my worldly desires

6. We work to gain knowledge for my spiritual desires

7. We work selflessly in the society, firms and other areas of engagement

8. We work selflessly to clean our Mind of the worldly desires and Ego

9. We work to expand our Mind's capacity to serve higher

10. We work to achieve Moksha.

From Sakama karma to Niskama Karma to Knowledge. This aligns the Sansari human to the Spiritual human

Love and best wishes

[cybernetics]

I apologize for being away for so long.. Got stuck with the exams..
And, in relation to the above discussion I just have to say that ultimately it's upto us as to what we choose to do in life..Although God is the only controller of this world but he doesn't really interferes with our Karma.. We can either choose to degrade ourselves by indulging in sense gratification or we can uplift ourselves by understanding the line of separation between our material and spiritual selves.. And once we understand this separation, we no longer bother about what we our doing because we understand that it's not us but God who is doing this work, or in a better sense, controlling this world. He is just using our material body as a tool. So He is the Supreme Controller and Supreme Enjoyer and we are but His mere servants.
Unfortunately, this separation is, I won't say impossible, but difficult to understand because we all are knowingly or unknowingly impure to some degree at least.
So, whatever* we do, doesn't matter. Because God has decided our fate based on our past activities. What's up to is that we detach ourselves from this material world and.......... BHAJA GOVINDAM.. and wait for mercy to come that one day Krishna will uplift us to his Holy Abode.


* Whatever, of course, doesn't mean committing sin in any form because we do that only when we are attached...
Thank You!! Bhaja Govinda..

[Jaishankar]

Pranams!

"Why should I work?"

Wonderful question! In Gita, Sri Bhagwan Krsna tells Arjuna "O Arjuna, be ye a Yogi!"

My Guruji has taught me that Gita is unlike any other scripture on earth because it address' humanity on every level and for every need. On the surface and at the physical level Gita expresses the need for man to work, indeed. For Sri Krsna says, "Even if I were to cease my work so too would all men follow my lead, causing the destruction of all" and "Even the bare maintenance of the body is not possible if one commits himself to inaction."

As He goes on in Gita, Sri Bhagwan declares the importance of Karma, Bhakti and Jnana Yoga and their physical application and merit. On a subtle level however, the statement "O Arjuna, be ye a Yogi!" bares great weight and knowledge. Guruji says for one of awakened mind the message of all the scriptures is contained in the first chapter of the Gita, culminating in this single statement.

Jnana Yoga: Yoga of right knowledge; of Purusha, Krsna, Brahman. By "right knowledge" we mean understanding of the nature of Reality as it is not as it is perceived to be. As Sri Bhagwan says, all actions are in reality the Gunas busying themselves in action with themselves. You are the "Observer" of action rather than the "Doer". This is Jnana!

Bhakti Yoga: Yoga of right surrender/devotion; to Purusha, Krsna, Brahman. By "right surrender/devotion" we mean utter and complete surrender/devotion with knowledge that "I" am not the "Doer" of action rather an "Observer". If I am not the doer then who is? Sri Bhagwan says action is the Gunas interacting with the Gunas. The Gunas of Prakriti are the qualities of Prakriti, and Prakriti is Purusha in action through Yoga Maya. Therefore, the ONLY "Doer" of action is Purusha/Krsna/Brahman. Sri Bhagwan says "In the begining the Prajapati created man together with sacrifice." This sacrifice is the act of creation where Purusha sacrifices Purusha into Prakriti to create the universe. So if I am only an "Observer" of this sacrifice (Bhakti) and it is Purusha making the sacrifice then this is the Jnana Yoga that brings fruit to Bhakti Yoga... But what is this Bhakti if I am not the offerer of Puja?

Karma Yoga: Yoga of right action; devoted to Purusha/Krsna/Brahman. By "right action" we mean action done with both right knowledge and right devotion. If I am not the "Doer" of any action but I am commanded to right action then how is this possible? It is said that action is of three fold as are the Gunas. Sattva action leads to the accumulation of Sattva Karma. Tama action leads to the accumulation of tama karma. ALL action is rajas and leads to the accumulation of raja (worldly) karma. The fruit of sattva is the 7 upper regions, the fruit of tamas is the 7 lower regions, the fruit of rajas is the 7 middle regions and the fruit of karma in general is continuation in the cycle of birth and death!

Raja Yoga: "Royal/Highest" Yoga is the destruction of binding karmas by the application of Jnana and Bhakti Yoga to Karma Yoga. I am not the "Doer" of action, Purusha is! By this knowledge we relinquish the fruit of action (karma) to itself and free ourselves from the bond of karma. The bond is broken because with this right understanding of the nature of Reality as it is ALL actions become Bhakti! Purusha's action are all bhakti because all actions of Purusha are done as sacrifice! EVERY action!!! If everything in the universe is an act of sacrifice then all things in the universe are constantly engaged in sacrifice because it is Purusha that is sacrificed to Purusha to create all things. All things are Purusha diluted by the ignorance of ego individuality caused by the experience of Yoga Maya. When I say "I" am not the Doer it comes from the same place as when I say "I" am the Doer... the ego. Through this Raja Yoga we come to greater understanding of the "I" which is my nature rather than my ego. From this point we come to the understanding that though the "I" (ego) is not the Doer, "I" (Purusha) am the Doer of all action. If this is so then Yoga is my very nature. I dont posses Jnana, dont perform Karma, dont observe Bhakti. I am Jnana, Karma and Bhakti!

"Why should I work?"

because if you "ceased to work so too would all men follow your lead, causing the destruction of all"...

because it is your nature to work! Therefore perform all that is in your nature with that which is in your nature to do so. Perform all worldly activity with mind set in Jnana, heart fixed in Bhakti, intentions set on destruction of Karma, for the benefit of all, in devotion to Brahman. Then we will attain Raja Yoga, the Supreme Science of Union with the Divine Brahman (Reality as it is and not as it appears to be.)

Isha Upanishad declares,

"The Lord is enshrined in the hearts of all,
The Lord is the Supreme Reality,
Rejoice in Him through renunciation,
Covet nothing, all belongs to the Lord,
Thus working may you live 100 years,
Thus alone, may you work in true freedom."

Shanti!