View Full Version : Lookout notice for US evangelists

14 October 2011, 09:31 AM
Story here (http://dailypioneer.com/nation/13067-lookout-notice-for-us-evangelists.html).

Lookout notices have been issued at all airports in the country for detention of US evangelist William Lee and two of his companions who had been conducting religious propagation conventions in the name of musical programmes in Kerala in violation of visa norms....The three gave escaped a police search during a religious programme held in the garb of musical convention at Jawaharlal Nehru International Stadium at Kaloor in Kochi....Intelligence officials have learned that William Lee had held musical conventions for religious propagation at Kunnamkulam in Thrissur district on October 7, 8 and 9. There are also reports that he had told his close disciples in Faith Leaders that he was not planning to leave India soon and that the police would not be able to stop him from his mission.

Why are you so deceitful, Christian? The Muslim at least is very clear - he wants to kill or convert me. But you Christian? You come to my land and propagate your filth deceitfully under the garb of musical convention overstaying your visa. :mad:

When non-Americans overstay in the US, they are called illegal aliens. Can we Indians call you deceitful illegal alien?

16 October 2011, 07:54 AM
I am Muslim and do not want to kill anyone. I don't really try to convert anyone either. I know most people are not interested in Islam anyways. But okay. :(

17 October 2011, 03:09 PM
Thanks for posting this Wundermonk. I can't say I'm surprised by this Christian behavior. I too often wonder why Christians are so deceitful in their tactics.Though I can't think of any definitive answers, I do have a working hypothesis on this. Most Christians, like most Muslim (and most Hindus, etc.) believe what they believe largely due to parental influence. We all tend to follow in the footsteps of whoever's raising us and are swayed by our culture. Even I will fully admit that I would probably believe something else if I were raised that way.

Now, after a certain age or level of intellectual development, most people will consider their religious beliefs, and adjust them as reason dictates. But the thing is, "reason" is influenced by culture too. Most Christians in America are raised going to liberal churches. So while their Bible teaches that everyone else is going to hell, the view is never pushed on anyone. Indeed, many liberal preachers don't even teach this. So liberal Christians reject this notion out of believe in a just God. Many evangelicals behave likewise. I read an article on CNN the other week about how increasing numbers of evangelicals are having sex before marriage. My guess is that most evangelicals look at the Bible's teaching on sex, see the disconnet with American culture, and reason that this teaching can be rejected (note: I'm certainly NOT saying that I think this behavior is acceptable, only that it's what happens when you're raisd in a Western culture).Now here's the thing: for all the flack we give Western culture, at least it isn't utterly insane. Indians are generally peaceful people because we have a religion that teaches non-violence and a respect for all life. In America the motivation is different, but the effect is the same. People are generally somewhat affluent, and so they have something to lose. If you have a well-fed wife and kids and live in the suburbs, you typically don't have a desire to strap on a bomb and blow yourself up in Jesus' name. In most Islamic countries though, governments are autocratic and people are poor. Driven by an overzealous religious ideology, these people are willing to use violence for the sake of their faith, because they have little in life to lose. That's why extremist Muslims are violent while extremist Christians aren't.

So going back to American culture; Westerners live in a world where life is (somewhat) respected and death is not celebrated. So the idea that someone will go to hell for being Hindu is just a bit unnerving. How many times do you guys have an evangelical come up to you on the street and tell you to your face that you're going to hell? It's a bit awkward for the evangelical, and thus it is a rare occurence indeed. If the evangelical in question is someone who knows you personally (i.e. neighbor, classmate, etc.), he's probably never said anything like this. When I was growing up we lived next door to an evangelical for several years. He'd give us Bibles, pamphlets, and similar materials; my dad, ever the radical universalist, would put them all somewhere in our God's room (don't worry, I've since raided it and removed the offending items). But I was surprised that this neighbor would never so much as mention the word "hell" to us. It's easy to condemn the Great Satan when he's got an army in your country, but it's a bit more difficult when you're living the good life.

This leads to a disconnect between what evangelical Christians are supposed to believe at an intellectual level, and what they experience in their day to day lives. The Muslim is taught to fight a holy Jihad against the infidels, and he sees the infidel firing gunshots right outside in his street. Or at the very least he reads about it happening in a neighboring country. The Christian, on the other hand, is taught that all Hindus are under the devil's deception and are going to hell. But every Hindu American he meets is an upstanding citizen who has a good job, provides for his family, and is an asset to the community...except that he worships God differently than the Christian. This is why I think evangelicals have so much trouble putting their beliefs into practice. If I thought the people around me were going to hell, I'd constantly be knocking on peoples' doors and pleading with them to convert to Christianity. I wouldn't waste my time with conversion brochures and invitations to church. After all, with such a slow approach the person might die the next day and go to hell.

I read another facinating article by a Christian theologian recently in which he observed that evangelicals' beliefs don't agree with their practices. This was in regards to the abortion issue. Evangelicals routinely refer to this practice as an American holocaust. Yet at the same time, they condemn those few fanatics who kill abortion providers or bomb abortion clinics. The author observes that if they really believed abortion was murder, they would indeed use violence to stop it. After all, if you found out that a nearby hospital was literally putting its patients to death on a regular basis, wouldn't you approve of someone going in and blowing the place up? But because evangelicals live in an affluent society where their basic needs are met, it's a lot harder to put their money where their mouth is. Who wants to blow up the child murderers when it will mean a lengthy prison sentence?Evangelicals have some extreme beliefs. But they can't live those beliefs out, because it's not compatible with their lifestyle. So they believe in the Bible with their mouths, and are more reasonable in their minds. This I think is what leads them to odd, deceptive practices like slipping Bible tracts in Hindu students' backpacks, inviting Hindus to vague "prayer meetings," and covertly travelling in India.

On the other hand, maybe I'm all wrong about this. Maybe this evangelist is a true believer, and is thinking that he can convert the most people to Christianity by avoiding deportation for as long as possible. Who knows for sure?

19 October 2011, 06:49 PM
sanjaya-you make a good point between thought and action. Many years ago, I worked in a small department with colleagues of the fundamentalist variety-literally the whole, only those who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior go to heaven, and a lake of fire for those that don't. Women relegated to secondary roles; oh sure the female colleagues all worked, but at home, they had their "place" and made that clear. They were there to do their "women's work". Just the whole use of the statement "I'm saved." Referring to other fundamentalists as "Believers" (is he a "believer", etc). "Kingdom building" activities. I was a liberal Christian at the time, but that was nearly akin to being a pagan to them. My colleagues never said anything directly, but in my opinion, WHY? Why DIDN'T they? Sure I got an occasional snippet, but not much except for their reinforcement of their grand belief in their savior. If they really think I was going to hell if I couldn't assure them I was "their brand" of Christian, why would they not be scared for me and tell me that they beg me to please make sure I'm "truly saved". Instead, I'm hell-bound, and in the true analysis, did they really care? So no real action.
of course, LOL, if they knew I talk to Ganesh and Krishna now, one of them of the several would be the only one to give me the talk about idol worship, but even then, would give it up. Then again, by the same token, I also want to be left the heck alone too!!

19 November 2011, 03:07 PM
is there no freedom of religious belief, in your land?
everyone must believe the same?
I am sad if so, as this is the first time I have visited this forum, and read a number of posts, and there seems to be real tranqulity here - or there was until I read your note which appears to offer something that sounds very much like 'hate', 'rage', rejection?

Story here (http://dailypioneer.com/nation/13067-lookout-notice-for-us-evangelists.html).
Why are you so deceitful, Christian? The Muslim at least is very clear - he wants to kill or convert me. But you Christian? You c am saddenedome to my land and propagate your filth deceitfully under the garb of musical convention overstaying your visa. :mad:

When non-Americans overstay in the US, they are called illegal aliens. Can we Indians call you deceitful illegal alien?