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sm78
21 October 2011, 03:37 AM
http://rt.com/news/gaddafi-execution-images-broadcast-375/

I also believe the manner in which he was killed and manner in which it was broadcasted speaks of only one thing.

People who have lived under some sort of oppressive anti-humanity regime cannot over night become great champions of democracy.

The immature and childish manner in which the West/NATO led by US has again meddled in the affairs of the barbarians will come back to haunt them in a few years, is my guess.

Mana
21 October 2011, 08:04 AM
Namaste sm78

I couldn't agree more.

This saddened me also. (http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111007/full/news.2011.582.html?WT.mc_id=FBK_NPG)

There really is trouble at the top.

praNAma

mana

Brahmanyan
22 October 2011, 10:00 AM
History Repeats itself. All dictators come to power with patriatic zeal. But once unbridled power goes into their head they turn into tyrants. All of them face gruesome end.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

OM GUY
23 October 2011, 12:16 AM
Hari OM!

Ever wonder what the family members and relatives, friends of those innocent folks who fell from the sky over Ireland in 1988 might have to say?

Eastern Mind
23 October 2011, 08:57 AM
Namaste sm78

I couldn't agree more.

This saddened me also. (http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111007/full/news.2011.582.html?WT.mc_id=FBK_NPG)

There really is trouble at the top.

praNAma

mana

Vannakkam Mana: You're sure this is the correct link?

Aum Namasivaya

Mana
23 October 2011, 01:04 PM
Namaste Eastern Mind,

Sorry, that's me and my lateral thinking again. Yes the link is intentional, I didn't mean to derail the thread; Sorry for that.
I understand fully; should you decide it inappropriate, and move or remove the post.

praNAma

Mana

Eastern Mind
23 October 2011, 02:59 PM
Namaste Eastern Mind,

Sorry, that's me and my lateral thinking again. Yes the link is intentional, I didn't mean to derail the thread; Sorry for that.
I understand fully; should you decide it inappropriate, and move or remove the post.

praNAma

Mana

Vannakkam: Not a problem. You're not the only lateral thinker.:)

Aum Namasivaya

sm78
26 October 2011, 06:38 AM
Hari OM!

Ever wonder what the family members and relatives, friends of those innocent folks who fell from the sky over Ireland in 1988 might have to say?

Ok. Gadhaffi being beaten, tortured and killed is okay because its tit-for-tat?

Do you have the same reasoning for this also?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2053287/Gaddafi-dead-A-dark-start-Libyas-new-dawn.html

and this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2052398/Gaddafi-dead-Mahmoud-Jibril-says-legislation-based-Islamic-Sharia-law.html

Eastern Mind
26 October 2011, 06:49 AM
Vannakkam: These things are always far more complicated than we will ever know. What we get are media reports only, and interviews with people who may not even know why they are fighting.

(My first learning of this was from an exploration of Allende's (democratically elected socialist) demise with the help of CIA propaganda, and then the subsequent later arrest of Pinochet)

So who really knows what's going on? Certainly I won't pretend I know anything. Last night on our political satire show (22 Minutes in Canada) they did their version of the story and showed pictures of a smiling Gaddaffi with Bush, with Harper, with Blair, etc. and contrasted those pictures with current leaders' responses to his death.

Aum Namasivaya

Mana
26 October 2011, 09:27 AM
Namaste All,

For another perspective; I highly recommend this well thought out and well presented documentary. It can be found on Youtube if one doesn't have the money to buy it.

Iran is not the problem. (http://www.iranisnottheproblem.org/)

That said I do agree with you Eastern mind that we don't ever see a complete picture, we are shown by our lords that which they wish us to see only. A scenario worse than that of ignorance, is one of propaganda and lies.

There was also a BBC documentary about the CIA's practises over the years which confirm these points of view also. I cant find it at the moment but there is no shortage these days.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHAwbYpRGkQ)
See 1984 George Orwell.

Thankfully the internet is changing this.

If we let unevaluated, unelected business men rule with their greed, we are within a system of fear where only the most unscrupulous arrive in positions of power. Most undemocratic, and very unhealthy ... A Pingala overload!

Human creativity and our most caring nature is damned.


praNAma

mana

Adhvagat
26 October 2011, 10:01 AM
Pawns in the game.

Spiritualseeker
26 October 2011, 10:03 AM
Namaste,

American Capitalist Imperialism at its best. It is accelerating in its collective ego. It is really out of control, more so than it was before I feel. What to do?

Wanting to reform the world without discovering one's true self is like trying to cover the world with leather to avoid the pain of walking on stones and thorns. It is much simpler to wear shoes.-Ramana Maharshi


Devotion to Sri Ramana, who said the mind is Maya

Om Namah Shivaya

Mana
26 October 2011, 11:00 AM
Namaste All,

I quite agree, one person at a time is all it takes, starting with you self. Let Good Karma and the Butterfly effect do the rest. Positive reflection.

Positive action with no knee jerk responses; Tricky but possible.

praNAma

mana

OM GUY
26 October 2011, 03:35 PM
Ok. Gadhaffi being beaten, tortured and killed is okay because its tit-for-tat?

Do you have the same reasoning for this also?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2053287/Gaddafi-dead-A-dark-start-Libyas-new-dawn.html

and this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2052398/Gaddafi-dead-Mahmoud-Jibril-says-legislation-based-Islamic-Sharia-law.html

Hari OM!

No where in my reply to you did I mention condoning retribution, eye for an eye, tit for tat.

I just find it rather odd the feelings of sadness and grieving for a brutal dictator who managed the slow torture of thousands and the quick murders of thousands more without a drop of noted concern for his victims, that's all. I also find it odd that while we all know the name Gadhafi quite well, not one of his victims are known by us.

If anything, I think great reams of sadness for people past, present and future who must endure idiot dictators like this and then lament their demise in less than savory conditions.

sm78
22 November 2011, 10:17 AM
Analysis by Brahma Chellaney
http://chellaney.net/2011/11/18/our-islamists/

Following the death of Libya’s Muammar el-Qaddafi, Libya’s interim government announced the “liberation” of the country. It also declared that a system based on sharia (Islamic law), including polygamy, would replace the secular dictatorship that Qaddafi ran for 42 years. Swapping one form of authoritarianism for another seems a cruel letdown after seven months of NATO airstrikes in the name of democracy.

In fact, the Western powers that brought about regime change in Libya have made little effort to prevent its new rulers from establishing a theocracy. But this is the price that the West willingly pays in exchange for the privilege of choosing the new leadership. Indeed, the cloak of Islam helps to protect the credibility of leaders who might otherwise be seen as foreign puppets.

For the same reason, the West has condoned the rulers of the oil sheikhdoms for their longstanding alliance with radical clerics. For example, the decadent House of Saud, backed by the United States, not only practices Wahhabi Islam – the source of modern Islamic fundamentalism – but also exports this fringe form of the faith, gradually snuffing out more liberal Islamic traditions. Yet, when the Saudi Crown Prince died recently, the US stood by silently as the ruling family appointed its most reactionary Islamist as the new heir to the throne.

So intrinsic have the Arab monarchs become to US interests that the Americans have failed to stop these cloistered royals from continuing to fund Muslim extremist groups and madrasas in other countries. From Africa to South and Southeast Asia, Arab petrodollars have played a key role in fomenting militant Islamic fundamentalism that targets the West, Israel, and India as its enemies. The US interest in maintaining pliant regimes in oil-rich countries trumps all other considerations.

With Western support, the oil monarchies, even the most tyrannical, have been able to ride out the Arab Spring, emerging virtually unscathed. For the US, the sheikhdoms that make up the Gulf Cooperation Council – Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, and Oman – are critical for geostrategic reasons as well. After withdrawing its forces from Iraq, the US is considering using Kuwait as a new military hub to expand its military presence in the Persian Gulf region and foster a US-led “security architecture,” under which its air and naval patrols would be regionally integrated.

NATO-led regime change in Libya – which holds the world’s largest reserves of the light sweet crude oil that American and European refineries prefer – was not really about ushering in an era of liberal democracy. The new Libya faces uncertain times. The only certain element is that its new rulers will remain beholden to those who helped to install them. US Senator John McCain has already announced that the new Libyan rulers are “willing to reimburse us and our allies” for the costs of effecting regime change.

America’s troubling ties with Islamist rulers and groups were cemented in the 1980’s, when the Reagan administration used Islam as an ideological tool to spur armed resistance to the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. In 1985, at a White House ceremony attended by several Afghan mujahideen – the jihadists out of which the Taliban and al-Qaeda evolved – Reagan gestured toward his guests and declared, “These gentlemen are the moral equivalent of America’s Founding Fathers.”

Yet the lessons of the anti-Soviet struggle in Afghanistan have already been forgotten, including the need to focus on long-term goals rather than short-term victories. The Obama administration’s current effort to strike a Faustian bargain with the Taliban, for example, ignores America’s own experience of the consequences of following the path of expediency.

Another lesson that has been ignored is the need for caution in training Islamic insurgents and funneling lethal arms to them to help overthrow a regime. In Libya, bringing the myriad rebel militias under government control is likely to prove difficult, potentially creating a jihadist citadel at Europe’s southern doorstep.

Exponents of US policy argue that in war it is sometimes necessary to choose the lesser of two evils. Unsavory allies – ranging from Islamist militias to regimes that bankroll militant Islamic fundamentalism overseas – may be an unavoidable price to be paid in the service of larger interests.

Paradoxically, the US practice of propping up malleable Islamist rulers in the Middle East often results in strong anti-US sentiment, as well as support for more independent and “authentically” Islamist forces. When elections are held, it is such autonomous Islamists who often emerge as winners, as in Gaza and Tunisia.

The fight against Islamist terrorism can succeed only by ensuring that states do not strengthen those forms of Islamic fundamentalism that extol violence as a religious tool. Unfortunately, with the US willfully ignoring the lessons of the recent past, the extremists are once again waiting in the wings.