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yajvan
05 November 2011, 07:43 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~


namasté

One of the great itihāsa-s इतिहास is the rāmāyaṇa or rāma + ayaṇa :

rāma राम - pleasing , pleasant , charming , lovely , beautiful. One root is ram - to delight , make happy
rā is acquiring , possessing , yet as a noun it is splendor, luster. That is why 'rā' and ravi रवि is associated with the Sun. And what then is Sunday? ravidina , Sunday .
ayaṇa अयन = the path, or road; course or place of refuge, progress or manner.Hence the rāmāyaṇa is that path, or course that brings one to rāma.

So it would seem to me a better understanding of the story of the rāmāyaṇa would serve one wisely. Questions then become :

who really is rāma ?
who is sīta and rāvaṇa ? That is, what principles do they represent?
and rāma's brothers ? and rāvaṇa's brothers ?
and hanuman-ji ?
What is the symbol of the forest-time He spent ?
etc.Perhaps those that have interest in participating in this conversation can bring some their definitions and ideas to this string. I encourage all to bring their knowing but avoid dumping too much information at one time. We wish not to drink water out of a fire hose, but prefer to sip it by the glass.

If I may let me offer this regarding rāmāḥ...

The adyātma rāmāyaṇa ( bālakanda section) informs us, rāmāḥ is the Supreme Self, distinct from prakṛti. He is the one all-comprehending Being who is the Spirit Supreme. He is not separate from you, He is not another, to be looked for on the 'outside' of you. He is you at your core, the Supreme Self; He is your own true Self.

Now we can look at the rāmāyaṇa from a different point of view:
the rāmāyaṇa is about the path (ayaṇa) to your own Self ( rāmaḥ).

I hope to see other's post and their contributions to this string.


praṇām


words

rāma = noun for varuṇa
rāma = a kind of deer; a horse ; a lover; pleasure , joy , delight
rāmā = a beautiful woman , any young and charming woman , mistress , wife , any woman ; red earth ; a kind of pigment; a river;
rāmā = a kind of metre i.e. (in music) a kind of measure.
rāmī =darkness , night

Eric11235
05 November 2011, 08:13 PM
Vannakam Yajvan,

I recently completed teh Griffith Translation and by extension have a (probably) very limited understanding of your questions but to answer those bullet pointed

--Rama is the son of Dasharatha, 7th incarnation of Lord Vishnu

--His brothers are Bharat, Lakshman and Satrughna, (Lakshman being his most faithful brother and also being a reincarnation of Vishnu's Steed Sushena)

--Sita is daughter of Janak born of mother earth, Sita's wife, she is the ideal woman, wife, etc. She is the incarnation of Lakshmi

--Ravana is by no means a pure villain but does have some arrogance, he is an non-ideal leader, versed in the vedas and upanishads, he represents misuse of knowledge and power, he is a devotee of Shiva

--Ravana's brothers (whom I remember) Are the nearly unslayable and Strong Kumbhakarna, and Vibhishan who switches sides to Rama and ultimately becomes king of the ravaged lanka

--Hanuman is a Vanar and represents the ideal friend, he is the 11th or 12th (can't remember) Incarnation of Shiva.

--I believe the time in the forest is meant to represent meditation and abstention from Kama or pleasure, learn the meaning of reality through those things but of course that is my interpretation,

I hope I have contributed adequately to the conversation

Namaste

Eric11235
05 November 2011, 08:15 PM
Excuse me if my analysis is a little elementary in its understandings

yajvan
05 November 2011, 10:40 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~


namasté Eric,


Excuse me if my analysis is a little elementary in its understandings
Your contributions are always warmly welcomed... perhaps in this string we will offer you some deeper insights on all the personalities mentioned above.

you mention,

--Rama is the son of Dasharatha, 7th incarnation of Lord Vishnu

Yes, this is mentioned often. Yet if we look to an authoritative book, the śrīmad bhāgavata mahāpurāṇa, it calls out śrī rāma as visnu's 18th avatāra. Here is the reference : http://bhagavata.org/canto1/chapter3.html (http://bhagavata.org/canto1/chapter3.html)

I am hoping we will look into the symbols and meaning behind the personalities found in the rāmāyaṇa . Let me offer an example.

We know of rāvaṇa . This name means causing to cry as rava is a roar , yell , cry , howl; rāva is rooted in ru - a cry , shriek , roar , yell.

Yet we are told he is also called daśagrīva ( some write daśagṝva) daśa + grīva is 10 + neck, or said another way 10 headed. Now what are the 10 heads?
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l12yfdd8ov1qbz35lo1_500.jpg

They are the symbols for the 5 sense organs and the 5 organs of action or combined the world of the senses. That is why rāvaṇa is ~opposed~ to śrī rām in the story. Rāvaṇa or daśagṝva is outward facing, to the world at large, the world of diversity; śrī rām is inward facing to the unity of spirit. It is telling us as humans there is the outward pull of the world of diversity that is around us, and there is the inward life of silence and perfection within us. As humans there is this field of life the human-condition can operate within - the movable and immovable.

We see this theme in the bhāgavad gītā. Kṛṣṇa's conversation with arjun takes place in the ~middle~ of the battle field. Arjuna addresses Kṛṣṇa as acyuta defined as firm , imperishable , permanent. We can look at it this way, a + cyutá - 'a' = not + 'cyuta' = moved, shaken or fallen i.e. not fallen. It suggests not fallen from Divine status ( some say into the re-birth of man). He is the imperishable, the immovable, invincible. Hence Brahman, Divine Being, just like śrī rām.

This field of action is that of diversity, of the senses, of daśagṝva. The immovable is the field of śrī rām or kṛṣṇa . So, rāvaṇa is that 'field' where there is crying and cause for weeping as life and diversity is heaped upon humans; Yet there is the Infinite in our-Selves that of rāmāḥ - where there is unity, silence and delight. These are the dynamics as I see it that is working within the rāmāyaṇa.


praṇām

words
It is worthy to note that 'ac' of acyuta means 'to go , move'. So in one word, we see Kṛṣṇa addressed as the movable and immovable.

smaranam
06 November 2011, 09:59 AM
Namaste YajvanJi

I haven't read AdhyAtma RAmAyaN and look forward to you posts. However, this is my understanding:

Shri RAm of course, is Shriman Narayan, VishNu, so the all-pervading paramAtmA. The word rAm as in ramaN, AtmArAm is befitting.

SitA : RAm's consort is of course Lakshmi who always supports Bhagvan VishNu in His earthly Lilas. On the adhyAtma level, She is His internal potency, HlAdini shakti, Shri Devi. However, Sita is also refered to as Bhudevi (Mother Earth Shakti).
So She is Shri + Bhu combined. Since RAm had taken eka-patni vrat, He could not have been accompanied by Shri and Bhu seperately (unlike KRshNa who as accompanied by RukmiNi (shri) and SatyabhAmA (bhu). )

These two Shaktis are the gateways for the tatastha (marginal) entities (the jivas) to the ParaBramha (Shri RAm)

Sita' s going back to earth symbolizes that the body is the 5 elements (earth water fire air ether) and goes back to its source.

Lakshman Bharat Shatrughna = the chaturvyuha expansions of Shriman Narayan
(VAsudev SahkarshaN Pradyumna Aniruddha)

Dasharath : the One who has yoked the 10 (dasha) indriya (senses) to the chariot (rath) - my interpretation alone.

Kausalya - simply the exalted one whom Shriman Narayan honored by making her His mother in one incarnation.

[ We know that Devaki :: KRshNa as PRshNi :: PrshNiGarbha as Aditi :: VishNu in form of Upendra/VAman (Upendra = younger brother of Indra) - Where the same entity took births as PRshni , Aditi and Devaki. So she must also be Kausalya then ?]

SumitrA = Su + MitrA = personification of good auspicious friendship and loyalty, hence she gave Lakshman to RAm - a trustworthy loving dedicated follower brother friend.

VibhishaN = the exemplary jiva who is righteous and recognizes his hitachintak (wellwisher) - RAm, Self, ParamAtmA, God. Dictionary says "VibhishaN" = terrifying intimidating, so he was a threat to Ravana and his clan from their POV. His weapon was Truth (Satyameva jayate)

I shall skip Kaikeyi and MantharA for now. Also, JatAyu (who was RAm's actual father ??) , Jambhuvan and HanumAn (everyone knows he is Pavan-suta).
-----------------------------

This reminds me of Swami Chinmayananda's book : KRshNa = Self, Rukmini = jiva, RukmiNi's father Bheeshmaka (King of Vidarbha) = body , Rukmini's five brother (opposed to her marraige to KRshNa) = 5 senses.

Only when jiva surrenders to Self (KRshNa), and only when He actually lifts her out of the material "prison" , can she have the salvation in proximity of paramAtmA. She cannot do it herself. Also, the body apparently was supportive but the senses were not.


praNAm

Jai Shri RAm

yajvan
06 November 2011, 11:24 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~


namasté smaranam




SitA : RAm's consort is of course Lakshmi who always supports Bhagvan VishNu in His earthly Lilas. On the adhyAtma level, She is His internal potency, HlAdini shakti, Shri Devi. However, Sita is also refered to as Bhudevi (Mother Earth Shakti).

What you offer about sītā (some spell sitā) is interesting and insightful. If I may let me extend the conversation a bit more.

Sitā we know is the the wife of rāmacandra and daughter of king janaka - king of mithilā , capital of videha. Sitā was named as such because She is thought to have sprung from a furrow made by janaka while ploughing the ground to prepare it for a sacrifice instituted by him . She is also called ayoni-jā , meaning 'not womb born' since she came from the furrow or track or line of a ploughshare.

Śrī siddharameśvara maharāj suggests to us that sitā is also the personification of peace. This is śrī rām's 'nature' and why both are a couple, yet more so , how they are considered one and the same.
It is said hanumān-ji once looked at sitā. She was alone. He had doubts that whether it was rāmaḥ he was seeing. Looking at sitā he thought it was rāmaḥ Himself. Hence the perfection in match.

So, it is rāvaṇa (daśagrīva) or the world of the senses that takes away peace (sitā). It is when the the world of diversity (rāvaṇa) is no more, then thee kingdom of rāmaḥ becomes one's daily experince (peace).

Both sitā & rāmaḥ (peace and the Supreme Self) can be inferred in His name rā + ma. This 'rā' we know as splendor, light meaning the Sun and hence the symbol of the Supreme. And this 'ma' is measure, to measure out. It is sitā who is considered nature , that which is meaured out, ever changing or prakṛti.

So within rāma's name we have the Supreme Self and the active creation... the unmoving and the moving just as we find in a + cyutá - 'a' = not + 'cyuta' = moved, shaken or fallen i.e. not fallen. It suggests not fallen from Divine status. He is the imperishable, the immovable, invincible and the movable, all of prakṛti.


praṇām

yajvan
06 November 2011, 03:54 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~


namasté

Now who is this lakṣmaṇa लक्ष्मण ? We know he is a son of daśa-ratha and the younger brother of śrī rām, yet what is his symbol ?
Lakṣmaṇa is defined as 'endowed with auspicious signs or marks' .
What if we look at his name like this lakṣ + maṇa .

lakṣ = to aim , it (as to aim an arrow at any object) , direct towards , have in view
maṇa = mana = manas = mind in its broadest sense as applied to all the mental powers i.e. intellect , intelligence , understanding , perception , sense , conscience , will. . Yet too it is also it is to bear or ponder in the mind , meditate on , remember.So we can say lakṣmaṇa's auspicious markis his aim (lakṣ) via the mental faculties and meditation towards the Supreme Self, rāmaḥ. His duty and dedication to rāmaḥ was unwavering as he followed him into the forest.

The forest as I see it is the forest of life, of multiplicity. Where all different animals present themselves to the native that is on the path of life.

So, one must ask , why did rāmaḥ and others end up in the forest for 14 years ? I can see 12 years and have a line of sight to this time-frame, but why 14 years ? Any one care to suggest an answer ?


praṇām

yajvan
07 November 2011, 04:16 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~


namasté


So, one must ask , why did rāmaḥ and others end up in the forest for 14 years ? I can see 12 years and have a line of sight to this timeframe, but why 14 years ? Any one care to suggest an answer ?
This is not an easy question... Many people say this 14 years corrresponds to the viṁśottarī daśā system and the period of śanaiscara (saturn, the slow moving one) daśā period. If this were true then rāmaḥ and others end up in daṇḍaka forest for a term of 19 years. So I have pondered this question for many years and finally got my answer offered some years back by sanjay rath, one of the jyotish luminaries of our present time. He shows that this 14 year period is in fact a period of śani (saturn) yet it is part of the mūla daśā system which happens to be a derivative of the viṁśottarī daśā system. To go into this daśā system is not the intent of this post, as it is quite in-depth. Yet I point this out to suggest no information given in the śāstra's is just a random number, but is given for meaning, learning or insight.

Yet if there are those with a jyotish bent that wish to better understand this daśā system and has a good baseline in jyotish, sanjay was kind enough to write this down some years back - you can find it here : http://www.scribd.com/doc/58409021/Sanjay-Rath (http://www.scribd.com/doc/58409021/Sanjay-Rath)

On closing let me ask is there any significance to the name of the forest , daṇḍaka forest ,that rāmaḥ and others resided in for the 14 years ?

praṇām

smaranam
07 November 2011, 04:25 PM
Namaste Yajvanji


On closing let me ask is there any significance to the name of the forest , daṇḍaka forest ,that rāmaḥ and others resided in for the 14 years ?

DanDaka refers to danDa = punishment or consequence ?
(It is another story that KRshNa says "I am the 'danDa' of those who mete out disciplines (shAsan) ).

14 years related to sADe-sAti (7 1/2 yrs roughly times two for some reason) makes sense.

Also, sItA being the nature of rAma (as peace) is very beautiful. Yes, They are one.

praNAm

yajvan
07 November 2011, 07:18 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté smaranam


Namaste Yajvanji
DanDaka refers to danDa = punishment or consequence ?
(It is another story that KRshNa says "I am the 'danDa' of those who mete out disciplines (shAsan) ).

daṇḍaka is a wonderful word. We know it as a stick or a shaft. Who carries a stick or shaft in the forests ? Which muni's ? This is a hint of who you will find in the forest. Yet too a stick can also be the symbol of discipline/punishment as you suggest. Also when you say 'meter', daṇḍaka is a class of meters which may extend from 4 x 27 to 4 x 999 syllables.

Yet this word in the masculine gender is defined as 'of an asura¹' ; We find in this daṇḍaka forest the asura-s and others ( even muni-s). One asura that is encoundered is virādha. His encounter is offered in the araṇya kāṇḍa of the rāmāyaṇa.

Now it is my conjecture daṇḍaka has something to do with time span. That is, one definition of daṇḍa is a measure of time = to 60 vi-kalā-s¹. There are different definitions of the duration of 1 vi-kalā.

Also daṇḍa is defined as 0º 1 ' 0" of a degree of a sign, or as we may say 1 minute of a degree. It is my assumption the word daṇḍaka when properly understood will help better understand the time spent in this forest... perhaps it gets us to the 14 years or subsets of that 14 years and when things occured. This again is my conjecture and I am still looking to see if this idea has any merit.

praṇām

words

we know asura-s to be rākṣasa-s.
daṇḍa = 60 vi-kalā-s; Now what is 1 vi-kalā ? Note the vi = 2, so we need to find 1 kalā. One kalā = 1÷900th of a day or 1.6 minutes; vi-kalā then = 1.6 minutes x 2 = 3.2 minutes. It just so happens that 3.2 min. can be viewed as 3º20' or 1 pada of a nakṣatra , an asterism or constellation through which the moon passes. Perhaps the math will work out for the number of pada-s saturn passes through in the 14 year period. Again, I have not worked this out as yet.

Mana
08 November 2011, 04:32 AM
Namaste yajvan, smaranam

Thank you for your insights in to these matters, I am just discovering the delights of the rāmāyaṇa and the beauty of jyotisha.

I am reading from this site. (http://valmikiramayan.net/bala/sarga1/bala_1_frame.htm)

So much to learn...

Will you be so kind as to advise to the interpretation, or recommend another source.

Thank you kindly.


praNAma

mana

yajvan
08 November 2011, 05:32 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

Will you be so kind as to advise to the interpretation, or recommend another source. Thank you kindly.
The site you suggest is very good and I frequent it often:
http://valmikiramayan.net/bala/sarga1/bala_1_frame.htm

Now for interpretations and meaning, I have no one site I can refer you to as it come from many places. Yet as you start to read and look around the inerpretations come from one's reading , and not always within the translation of the rāmāyaṇa. Yet as I find them I will post the sites on HDF and this string.

praṇām

yajvan
08 November 2011, 05:42 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

śrī rām is known as rāmacandra. This is quite revealing. We talked of His name in the above posts but have not mentioned rāma+candra as an item of interest. By adding candra to His name it acts as a description of rāmaḥ. candra is defined as having the brilliancy or hue of light ; it also means the most excellent.

Candra in the masculine is gender defined as the number 1. So we can say it is rāmaḥ, the One, who is the most excellent and the brilliancy of light.

Yet there is more ... we know candra to mean the moon, due to its luster and fullness. Because it is the moon, it is associated with tithi-s ¹ the count of the lunar days. We know there are 15 tithi's to the waxing part of the month and 15 with the wanning part of the month. Within sanātana dharma we find 15 +1 or 16. It stands for more then fullness or excessive fullness.

The full moon is the 15th kalā (digit) of the month, considered pūrṇa ( full ); so this 16th period is considered the fullness of fullness. When one is using the term rāmacandra , we are inferring His brilliance, His fullness, wholeness of Being.

We find vālmīki muni, author of the rāmāyaṇa asking devarṣi nārada¹ Who really is that person in this present world, who is principled and also a potential one, a conscientious one, a redeemer, and also a truth-teller and self-determined in his deed... ( Book 1,1,2)

It is devarṣi nārada who calls out the person who has these qualities (rāmacandra ) and as we find there are 16 of them, the alignment back to fullness, completeness.

Does anyone wish to list out these 16 qualities/attributes ?

praṇām

words


devarṣi nārada is the mind-born son of brahmā
tithīśa - We know tithi is is the singular name given to one lunar day ( digit). Saying tithayaḥ (plural form), which is used in several places in Parā-trīśikā Vivaraṇa śloka-s is another way of saying 15. We know there are 15 tithi-s in the waxing, and 15 tithi-s in the wanning of the moon. Just as some one says 1 dollar, its another way of saying 100 pennies that make up a dollar, tithi is an accepted way of say 15.

Mana
09 November 2011, 01:26 AM
Namaste yajvan, smaranam, eric, all

I shall first have to admit; to not having derived these my self.

1) gunah = good qualities,
2) viryam = courage, one who does not get shaken in his heart but is able to accomplish even very hard tasks,
3) krutagnasya = one who remembers the help given to him by others
4) drudvrata = firm resolved
5) satyavrata = one who speaks only truth and nothing else
6) charitra = character
7) Charitra = character, conduct,
8) Vidvaan = knowlegable, wise,
9) sarvabutah hitah = one who wishes the best for every butah(living thing).
10) samartah = one is abled, one who can achieve any given task,
11) priya darshanah = handsome always in all attires at all times,
12) aatmavan = one who has mastered his aatma,
13) itakrodho = one who has mastered his anger,
14) dhyutiman = one who has great shine,
15) anasuyakah = one without jealousy,
16) kasya bibyati devah ca jyata rosaya myuge = even gods will tremble when he gets angry.

Quite a formidable character!

Are we seeing the first notions of raga yoga? How wonderful that it would seem to relate to chandra!



praNAma

mana

yajvan
09 November 2011, 08:25 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

If I may, let me offer the list of 16 with just some slight adjustments.


1. guṇavān - of good qualities, , virtue , merit , excellence
2. vīryavān - valour , strength , power ; heroic
3. dharmajñaḥ - knowledgable and intelligent on dharma (meaning virtue , morality , religion , good works ; that which upholds the world)
4. kṛtajña - knowledgable and intelligent of what has been done or needs to be accomplished; skill
5. satyavakyaḥ - only speaks the truth
6. dhṛḍha vrataḥ - resolute , persevering ( focused ) in his purpose or vow
7. cāritra vān - of good conduct , good character & reputation
8. sarva bhūteṣu hitaḥ - to be on the side of (set in ) the respect of all
9. vidvān - knowledgable and gain knowledge
10. smarthaḥ - able and competent
11. priyadarśana - agreeable and pleasant in appearance
12. ātmavān - here this is used as firmness, some say courage; with 'van' it means master of firmness or courage ( I have some other thoughts on this and will leave for another post)
13. jita krodhaḥ - conquered wrath , passion anger
14. dyutimān - brightness , lustre , majesty , dignity
15. anasūyakaḥ - not spiteful or envious
16. bibyatidevāḥ - the devā-s even fear or are afraid (when provoked to war)

praṇām

anisha_astrologer
10 November 2011, 01:35 AM
my interpretation of sita, her abduction and the fight between ram and raavan is as follows:
sita is shree. it neans she is the prosperity in the life of ram. shree or prosperity not only in terms of wealth but in terms of virtue and dharma. a person who is Shrre-hin (without shree) is ill and illness is not always of body but also of soul. ram is incarnation of vishnu but in human form he can be seen as a representation of every human being. every human being attains shree in life by following a virtuous path. sita's abduction can be seen as the loss of shree and the quest to find sita is the quest inside oneself to find our own vices and search for aids (represented by hanuman who stands for undying devotion, courage and faith) to fight away these vices. the final fight between ram and raavan is the ultimate fight betwwen the vices and the virtues within us after which the shree is restored to us. the abduction also symbolizes that vices can easily snatch away our prosperity, intellect and virtues.

yajvan
10 November 2011, 10:43 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

The rāmāyaṇa is itself composed of 24,000 couplets, some may call stanzas or as we call them śloka-s. It is quite interesting to note that the great gāyatrī mantra from the ṛg ved ( 3.62.10) has 24 syllables or phonemes. It was the wisdom of vālmīki muni to add these syllables into the rāmāyaṇa every 1,000 verses.

tát savitúr váreṇyaṃ
bhárgo devásya dhīmahi
dhíyo yó naḥ prachodáyāt

The very first word of the rāmāyaṇa is tapaḥ. So we start with the sound of ta in the rāmāyaṇa and 'ta' in gāyatrī. If one looks up or googles rāmāyaṇa gāyatrī you will find more on this subject.

This first word then must be of great import , no ?

praṇām

yajvan
11 November 2011, 06:24 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

hanumān-ji

Hanumān-ji is from hanumat, meaning having large jaws. If we go down one level to hanu means 'anything which destroys or injures life ' , a weapon ; as han means to smite , slay , hit , kill , mar , destroy. Hanumān-ji was the perfect devotee of śrī rāmacandra in his war with rāvaṇa.

Within the mahābhārata we find also find hanumān-ji. Due to being a son of vāyu or māruta , 'the wind' he then is a ~natural~ brother of bhīma one of the 5 pāṇḍavaḥ.

If we fast forward to the bhāgavad gītā we will find that arjun holds the flag ( banner) of hanumān-ji on his chariot. Why did arjun choose this among many symbols ? Here are my thoughts ; arjun's symbol is that of a weapon - let all my opponents be warned!

This as I see it shows arjun's devotion kṛṣṇa-jī , another form of viṣṇu and śrī rāmacandra. He will be unwavering to the will of kṛṣṇa-ji. This too, the flag is a reminder to his apponents just as rāvaṇa was defeated, so too will you.

praṇām

yajvan
19 December 2011, 11:47 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



hanumān-ji

Hanumān-ji is from hanumat, meaning having large jaws. If we go down one level to hanu means 'anything which destroys or injures life ' , a weapon ; as han means to smite , slay , hit , kill , mar , destroy. Hanumān-ji was the perfect devotee of śrī rāmacandra in his war with rāvaṇa.
If we look to hanu + mān we find mān rooted in man.


man is defined as 'thought to be' , 'appear as' , 'to call into question or doubt'.Now if we look at hanu we know it to mean 'that which destroys' . Hence hanu + mān can be considered that which destroys doubts or appearences.

If we think of hanumān-ji as the monkey , we can see he represents the mind. The mind is thought to jump and swing from idea to idea, thought to thought always moving , climbing. Yet it is when hanumān-ji is introduced to śrī rāmacandra ( the Self or the Supreme) he beomes the devotee, the one subdued.

The mind ( monkey) becomes subdued, doubts and perceptions are destoyed (hanu + mān) when brought into contact with the Supreme Self ( śrī rāmacandra ).

praṇām

Brahmanyan
02 January 2012, 10:25 PM
RAVANA BRAHMA .

The formidable king of Lanka almost came close to becoming an unquestioned ruler of the three worlds. The great epic Ramayana is as much about the defeat of Ravana as much as it is also about the life of Sri Rama, King of Ayodhya. So, had Ravana learnt the lesson of controlling his ambitions, it would not have been necessary for Lord Vishnu to incarnate upon earth as Sri Rama.

Ravana was a direct descendant of Lord Brahma and Brahmin by birth. He was blessed with the best of parents. His father was the great Sage Vishravas who was the son of Maharishi Pulastya Prajapathi (one of the mind born Saptarishis) and the grandson of none other than Lord Brahma himself. Maharishi Agasthya Muni was the brother of Sage Vishravas. Sage Vishravas had married Devavarni the daughter of rishi Bharadwaja and Princess Kaikasi the daughter of Sumali. While Kubera was the son of Devavarni, Ravana was the son of Princess Kaikesi. His mother Princess Kaikesi was the daughter of King Sumali of the Daithyas or Asuras. The Daithyas were descends of Diti; the second wife of Sage Kashyapa, thus were brothers to the Devas/Gods who were descended from Aditi, Kashyapa's first wife. Princess Kaikasi was a very ambitious lady and that the Sage Vishravas recognized her true ambitions when she asked him to marry her. Sage Vishravas also warned Princess Kaikasi that , their offspring may turn out to be bad. But, this information did not deter Princess Kaikesi who was soon blessed several children. The eldest of Princess Kaikesi's children was Ravana. At birth Ravana was given the name of Dashanana or Dasagriva, since he was said to have the mental strength of ten people. He was an exemplary scholer and mastered all the Vedas and Sastras under his father. He was a great Veena player. He was a Samavedin. He was an ardent devotee of Lord Siva and known for his Siva Tandava. Due to this only he was named Ravana by none else than by the Lord Siva himself. He had two younger brothers namely Vibhishana and Kumbakarna. In addition, Kaikesi gave birth to a daughter by the name Soorpanakha.


However different sources cite Ravana having more siblings than the ones named. For instance, Ravana is said to have had a brother named Mahiravana who was a powerful magician and became the ruler of the netherworld. In addition, there is also some mention of Khara and Dushana in the Ramayana. But, all sources agree that Ravana also had a half brother older than him. Kubera, the lord of wealth was the first son of Vishravas and Ravana would always have a contentious relationship with his half brother. As a child Ravana was very diligent and intelligent, an ideal scholar in all respects. However, his father also noted that Ravana tended to be arrogant and aggressive, taking after his maternal side. Ravana was very well educated and he was recognized as a very learned and proficient individual even by his enemies. He mastered the Vedas, Shastras and the ways of the Kshatriyas. He mastered the use of every weapon known to be used and was a great sorcerer. His father Sage Vishravas must have realized that Ravana was meant to rule a kingdom.However, he also noted that Ravana tended to be arrogant and aggressive, taking after his maternal side.

Ravana performed several yagnas as a Brahmin including one for Lord Shiva and Parvati . The puranas tell us about the magnitude of Ravana's learning and skill. He was unmatched in his knowledge of the nitishastra. Indeed, after his defeat towards the end of the Ramayana, Rama orders his brother Lakshmana to learn the art of nitishastra from the dying Ravana. In addition, he was a renowned Veena player; his personal emblem being the Veena. Already a great musician and scholar, Ravana added leadership qualities to his list of virtues. He was the undisputed leader amongst his siblings and even after growing up, his brothers and sister except Vibheshana would primarily defer to his judgment despite having differences of opinion.

Ravana had several wives but foremost among them was Queen Mandodari daughter of Maya.She was known for her beauty, grace and chastity. She was one of the pancha kanyas according to Hindu mythology and merely reminding her name is said to wash away all the sins. Princess Mandodari was the daughter of Maya an architect and Hema a celestial dancer. Maya was a descendant of Diti and hence was an asura . Thus Maya was known as Mayasura and also as Maya Ditya.
After nearly completing his domination of the worlds, Ravana returned to Lanka to rule over his dominions. As a citadel designed by none other than Vishwakarma,the architect of the Gods, Lanka was matchless. Its walls were strong and well defended. A guardian spirit watched over the main gate ensuring that enemies never entered the city. The legends talk about the wealth of Lanka during the rule of Ravana. It was said that hungar was virtually not known and even the poor ate out of vessels of gold and silver. Ravana himself was credited to have been a very able and benevolent administrator. He was ably aided in this by his brother Vibheshana who continued to walk the path of Dharma above all things. Vibheshana was with Ravana and helped to moderate all his orders until he got banished from the kingdom for speaking against the abduction of Sita, wife of Rama. Ravana’s life was a classic example of brilliance gone wrong. He had gained the very best instruction and was truly great in his abilities and achievements, a fact that was appreciated by his favorite God Shiva. However,unfortunately he never learnt the virtue of humility. His arrogance and conceit proved to be his nemisis. Instead of following the path of Dharma, he chose to flout it time and again. Instead of gaining fame for his countless good qualities, Ravana became known for his improper behavior towards humans and women in particular. His atrocities kept growing in number and eventually became so terrible, that it took an incarnation of Vishnu to subdue him.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely and the mighty Ravana moved from one blunder to another, angering many a mortal and God in the bargain. A true devotee of Lord Shiva , Ravana is said to have composed the "Shiva Tandava Stotra" while trying to gain boons from Shiva. Shiva who was busy at the moment dancing the tandava with his consort Parvati knew of his devotee’s intentions but chose to ignore them. Enraged, Ravana decided to lift the Kailasa Mountain, the abode of Lord Shiva and take it with him to Lanka. Lord Shiva, in turn enraged by Ravana's presumptions trod heavily back with his toe, nearly crushing Ravana in the process. It is at this time that Ravana realized his mistake and begged the Lord to end the misery, even sacrificing his numerous heads to the God. A calm Shiva appeared before Ravana and presented him with the Atma Lingam after formally naming him Ravanasura. Ravana continued on his way back to Lanka taking the Atma Lingam with him only to lose it on the way. The spot is now said to be Rameshwaram today.In the end, as he lay dying on the battlefield, holding on to the very last breath and giving Lakshmana instruction on Nitishastra and proper administration, Ravana is said to have commented dryly, "Never assume that you have all the time in the world and take nothing for granted. Never procrastinate. I conquered the Heavens and imprisoned Yama, the lord of Death to my bedstead and Shani, the ninth planet under my throne. I told myself that I will always have time to finish them later. What good did this procrastination do? They prevailed anyway."

There is an interesting anectode about one class of Brahmins known as "Saryuparin Brahmins" in North India. When Lord Rama returned to Ayodhya after his victory in Lanka, he wanted to perform "Aswamedha Yagna". For this purpose he invited the local Brahmins to perform the yagna. But they refused the offer since Rama did the sin of Brahma-hatya by killing Ravana, the son of a Brahmin. However some Brahmin families acceped the request of Lord Rama and performed the Yagna. For which they got Lands and wealth at the other side of River Sarayu. Thus the descendants of these families are called "Sarayupari Brahmins" even today. These Brahmins are also called "Kanyakubja Brahmins". Their families spread over many places in UP and Madya Pradeash. One of the famous persons belonging to the "Kanyakubja Brahmins" sect is Sri Atal Behari Vajapayeeji.


Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

Mana
15 January 2012, 09:22 AM
Namaste yajvan, all

I was lead to thinking of this thread whilst listening to a lecture on Jyotish, I found my self pondering this whilst studying sankranti.

Could the 14 years in the forest be any reference to the 14 days of the dalk half or krishna cycle of the tithi and the transition between two signs of the Bhāva of a planet. The 15th tithi would bring about the opening of the 3rd eye of siva a vision of god with no form and with it his curse in which he would lose sita and renounce fully. Ramahs devotion to his wife and worldly affairs restricting the time in the darkness of the forest? So rather than being a reference to a length of time could this be a reference to a border of time and its effect on the change between two different characteristics or bhava.

Thank you for your kind consideration.


praNAma

mana

yajvan
15 January 2012, 02:31 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

namasté


Namaste yajvan, all

The 15th tithi would bring about the opening of the 3rd eye of siva a vision of god with no form and with it his curse ...
mana
Here are my views on this matter, only taking one idea and not the full 14 year idea which I covered in the previous #8 post above.


From a kaśmiri śaivism point of view this 3rd eye is bhāla netra¹ . It is perfect, and full (pūrṇa) awareness. Due to this fullness (pūrṇa) we find it associated with the full moon. The interesting part is that of 15. Another name for 15 is tithi as there are 15 tithi's in the 1 part (fortnight) and 15th tithi's in the second part of the lunar month. We can then call it tithhayaḥ as the plural version of tithi.

So, we can all each tithi a part, a portion. For this we can use the term kalā. This has a few meanings. It is the single part of anything; it is also 1/16th of the moon's diameter; it comes also to be known as the number 16.

So here is the connection. There are 15 kalā's in saṃskṛtam that are from the sound/phonemes 'a' to 'aṁ'. It is the 16th that is 'aḥ' , called the 16th kalā. It is known as visarga-kalā as this ḥ is visarga and is written in saṃskṛtam like this : In English we call this a colon : . Now I wrote it like this 'aḥ' yet some write it like this 'ḥa' as it is an asperated breath at the end of a word - as in tithhayaḥ. The last vowel in this example is 'a' and what follows is an unvoiced breath that comes from the mouth in the same mouth position that is formed from the vowel 'a'.

The 16th kalā = ḥ = : = śiva. This 16th kalā is the backgound, the 'canvas' for all the other kalās. So it is with the fullness of the moon's waxing and wanning that brings you to pūrṇa, and the fullness of it is found on the background ( canvas) in the 16th kalā = ḥ = : = śiva.

This 16th kalā is also known as āmṛtakalā ( or immortal kalā); This knowledge is not that of vedānta nor of sāṁkaya, but that of the śaiva śastra-s.

Now why do I mention all this ? Because with the opening of this bhāla netra¹ , it is only fullnesss filled with āmṛtakalā; no curse comes with this wholeness (pūrṇa).

praṇām

words

bhāla - the forehead , brow
netra - the eye (as the guiding organ)
see post 13 regarding pūrṇa and 16
see post 8 regarding the 14 year period

Mana
16 January 2012, 10:58 AM
Namaste yajvan,

Thank you for your kind consideration; it is so true that one mans curse is another mans enlightenment? negative, being a relative perception, is nothing more than a perspective, just as both the full moon and the new moon bring about a high tide, only one of those tides are visible by the light of that moon.

Could it be that there is no curse when one is within the knowledge and dharma; the structure of Kashmir shavism or other such like; the knowledge, the structure removing any darkness.

I have been absorbed today with the notion of Sanskrit and language; I thank you for this most welcome inspiration.

I have been exploring these words...

छन्दस् = chandas = metrical science, metre, sacred text of vedic hymns
ब्रह्मदण्ड = brahmadaNDa = curse of a Brahman
दण्ड = daNDa = rod, fine , punishment, stick.
दण्डक = daNDaka = line, row, staff, beam, staff of a banner.

You must please excuse me as I know that you have already discussed these words, I am very slow to realise some times. For ideas and concepts to be absorbed; I need quite some time ...

Your reference to the Moola Dasa is quite fascinating; I am studying this also.

The Moola Nakshatras is a curiosity in its self.


praNAma

mana