Forums for Advaita Hindu Dharma

[smaranam]

Namaste dear Hindu Dharma Forums

Thank You from the bottom of my heart for everything.

A humble suggestion :

The name of these forums should perhaps be changed to

"Forums for Advaita Hindu Dharma"

We have been having many members who are blank slates -- absolutely new to Sanatan Dharma. They have no clue that Sanatan Dharma has two major [sets of ] philosophies.
ONE- whose goal is moksha into NirguN Brahman via jnana, dhyana, raja-yoga, tantra.
TWO- whose goal is Personal Bhagvad prem seva - VaishNav dharma, pure bhakti marga.

While upAsna mArga may vary, all other schools (except VaishNav) are at least heading for the same goal - ONE.

The title of the forums will at least give an idea to the newcomers about what the main theme is before they dive in.


I hope this suggestion will be taken in good spirit.

praNAm

[wundermonk]

Hello Smaranamji:

My .02 Rs on this issue.

Let us continue to call the forum Hindu Dharma Forums. That there are two different philosophies - Jnana and Bhakti with somewhat different sadhanas is a source of strength for Sanatana Dharma rather than a source of weakness. It may be a source of confusion for new comers but neither did Shankara completely dismiss Bhakti nor did Ramanuja/Madhva completely dismiss Jnana.

Perhaps the "skewness" you notice in the posts here is a reflection of the distribution of Advaita/Dvaita thought amongst the internet Hindus?

In any case, I enjoy your posts a lot.

[Kismet]

While I am first and foremost a practitioner of the Bhakti yogic path, and believe in Lord Krsna's Mercy to myself and those around me, I do not think such a position as mine must ipso facto dismiss the path of one-ness with Brahman.

Somehow I sense a deep complimentarity and dove-tailing of these two views. Yes, they are radically different in terms of their goals. But they each exist for a reason, and I think those reasons should not be set aside lightly at all, but discussed to a large extent, explored and delved into and pondered deeply.

[devotee]

Namaste dear Hindu Dharma Forums

Thank You from the bottom of my heart for everything.

A humble suggestion :

The name of these forums should perhaps be changed to

"Forums for Advaita Hindu Dharma"

We have been having many members who are blank slates -- absolutely new to Sanatan Dharma. They have no clue that Sanatan Dharma has two major [sets of ] philosophies.
ONE- whose goal is moksha into NirguN Brahman via jnana, dhyana, raja-yoga, tantra.
TWO- whose goal is Personal Bhagvad prem seva - VaishNav dharma, pure bhakti marga.

While upAsna mArga may vary, all other schools (except VaishNav) are at least heading for the same goal - ONE.

The title of the forums will at least give an idea to the newcomers about what the main theme is before they dive in.


I hope this suggestion will be taken in good spirit.

praNAm

Namaste Smaranam,

I am extremely sad to hear this from "you". You were the last person in my mind practising Bhakti Yoga on this forum, from whom I expected a remarks like this. Let me tell you the history of Advaita on this forum :

This forum has moved towards Advaita mainly due to these members :

a) The first culprit : "Atanu" -- who was forced to leave due to differences on some issue
b) Second : "Devotee"
c) Third and Fourth : Yajvan ji and Saidevo ji ===> They are not really Advaitins but as Kashmir Shaivism and Upanishads have strong inclination towards Advaita, they tend to support it
d) New Comers who are interested in Scientific aspect of spirituality where Advaita scores well

So, if you analyse it well ... I am the worst culprit among all, on this issue as far as old members are concerned. So, if old members have to be blamed for the present status of the forums, please blame me alone as Atanu has already left this forum & others are not really Advaitins. Please note that Satay never wanted it to represent this site any one philosophy of the Hindu Dharma.

The current shape of the forums is due to what Satay wanted it to have. He wanted to have here all aspects of Hindu Dharma but was initially critical to Advaita philosophy. I had a long discussion with him and other members on this forum to convince them the validity and practicality of Advaita. There has been bitter fights on this forum against Advaita (basically from ISKCON members) and it was Advaita members who were always on the defensive side . If you don't believe me, please check the old posts.

If you are not happy with this situation ... I shall leave the forums, if that helps .... however, I have always tried to give Bhakti and Jnana their due places here on these forums.

BTW, how other paths of Hindu Dharma are not represented here ... I am shocked to heart this. Is there a ban on devotees of Bhakti-yoga to post and discuss here ... or are they discriminated against here on this forum. If not, why this issue ? :(

OM

[Adhvagat]

Smaranam, your post sounds a little dubious to me.

I really don't understand your intentions.

[Spiritualseeker]

Namaste,

I feel that there are many paths that are given attention here. You see Bhakti Yoga and even the Hare Krishna's have a say. I do not agree with certain paths, but I do not even feel tempted to go tell a Bhakta that he or she is missing something, because all these paths take us to the Supreme. I practice Advaita, with much love and respect for Kashmir Saivism, yet I still make devotion, though not as much as my silent meditation. I make offerings to Murti, use mantras, and meditate upon Shiva. I think this forum is very open to many paths. Even Muslims and christians have a say here.


Om Namah Shivaya

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: I have little to add, other that I like it the way it is. I am both, bhaktar, and advaitin, as Saiva Siddhanta encompasses both. So if it became exclusively one or the other, I'd have to leave. :)

I do wish we had a listing of other forums to go to, with a brief description of all of them. I'm sure there must be an ISKCON only forum. The only other two that I'm aware of that are religiousforums.com which has individual sections, and is well moderated, and TamilBrahmins.com which is a place where a wider arrangement of issues unique to Tamil Brahmins is discussed.

Aum Namasivaya

[smaranam]

Namaste

First, let me clarify that this is NOT about me or for me. If it was would i not simply leave silently without making this post ?

I shall address all comments.
Emergencies to be handled first:
@Devoteeji, you are NOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE HDF. You are a light for those on the Advaita path(s). So it is out of question. You are a very nice being too.

All i am saying is : it is about time we stopped kidding ourselves and faced facts. The nature of our paths despite the common bonds of Vedopanishads.

What happens here is that "New to Sanatan Dharma" inevitably gets the message that Hinduism leads to Advaita. If that was there intention, fine, otherwise they would have been on krishna.com , iskcondesiretree, pushtimarg.net, shrivaishnav forums, KrishnaForum etc.

What about those that have no idea where to go within Hinduism ? They come here as it is the best gateway to Hindu Dharma. They end up with Himalayan Academy, Eknath Eashwaran and MAndukya Upanishad - Shankara bhAsya. So, why not let them do so knowingly, consciously.

@SpiritualSeeker: Fact that Christian and Muslims have forums here is no good argument. Hindu position is different. We share too many things to be pulled apart BUT, our sadhanas cannot occur together. As long as you post in Shaiva and i post in VaishNav we are fine. We can come together in "On Dharma", "Mera Bharat Mahan", "Indian Arts" and keep the Hindu spirit alive.
HOWEVER, we have some common areas : "philosophy", "God in Hindu dharma" , "scriptures" , and now the best part : "Bhagavad Gita" and "New to Sanatan Dharma"


@Wundermonk: "somewhat different sadhanas" ? somewhat ? What about the goals ? What about when it comes to "Aham Brahmasmi" (qualitatively, not quantitatively) and interpretation of key verses of Gita ?

"I enjoy your posts"
Those are very kind words, thank you, but the main idea is not simply enjoying posts.


more to follow ...

praNAm
om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ~

[smaranam]

continued...

Namaste

We share Vedopanishads, puranas, shruti smRti and mainly the Sanatan Dharma - Hindu culture.

HDF has been like a home for me, the mother who listens to all gibberish from Her child. HDF is beautiful.

I request all to please look at the following rationally and not emotionally, without any emotional elements, as there are none from my side, i love all of you :

The message thread of the day, week etc. in common areas, for the innocent newbies or even the longer-time sadhaks, is generally this :

- Bhakti is good, sweet, nice, all fine, but ultimately you have to come around to accept advaita.
OR Real bhakti starts after you first repeat to yourself one oneness all is one ONLY and there cannot be two. (This is not true, real bhakti starts when one is free of material anarthas, anartha nivRtti)

- There is no such thing as spiritual variegatedness. Seeing two or many is spiritual immaturity. Ignorance.

- The bhakti schools are ladders that lead to Advaita.

- Can AtmA have personality ? Gunas ? What svarup ? there is only one svarup. The water in the ocean.

---------

Transcendental qualities of Supreme Lord KRshNa (VishNu) can be understood only in company of like-minded sadhus, and pure devotees of KRshNa. The option of some sort of oneness is there, but oneness with Bhagvan, while least of the VaishNav goals, is a very personal matter between Bhagvan and bhakta, and has nothing to do with philosophizing or breaking of the clay pot to find attribute-less existence.

Having everyone on the common threads is pointless. Let us face it, there is nothing in common once we get there. Now do you see why the VaishNavs just come and go ?

Let Ganga be Ganga and Yamuna be Yamuna, otherwise the pebbles will restrict the flow.

om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya

_/\_

[devotee]

Namaste Smaranam,

When I first started to search for virtual forums, I chose Krishnatalk.com ( I am not sure if it survives today). Bhagwad Gita has been my favourite and I see both Bhakti and Jnana in this beautiful Song of the Lord. I stayed for some time on that forum and shared my views which were not ISKCON style bhakti to which this forum was dedicated. I had discussion with many of them ... and some people got angry with me, in spite of giving scriptural proof for whatever I wrote. So, one fine day I found that my user name has been deleted from the forum and all my posts have been deleted !

I am simply a Bhakta and Advaita is like poison to me ... imho, is something which has been brought by ISKCON which has also got some mutilated versions of some scriptures to buttress their point. I also seriously doubt their version of Gaurang's views on Advaita. If Advaita was so much different ... why there are five out of total six schools of Vedanta accepting Advaita in one form or the other ? If Advaita is such an anathema for a Krishna Bhakta then why the Vaishnava Gurus accepted their spiritual masters from Advaita school ? Or if Advaita can do harm to a Vaishnava bhakta then why Vishnu Purana talks of Advaitic union with Lord Vishnu by meditating on him ? Why do Lord Krishna say in Uttar Gita that Advaita is the final goal ? Similarly, if Advaita had any problem with Bhakti then why Sankaracharya write Bhaj Govindam ?

Finally, the Vaishnavas are not stopped for stating their viewpoint here. When a newbie comes here, why don't you or any Vaishnava guide them to Vaishnava path ? BTW, how many of the members here are pure Advaitin on this forum ? Or do you want to say in ISKCONite's language that Advaita philosophy is something which is sinful & to be avoided as the ISCKNOites spread willful mutilated words of Gaurang Prabhu against Advaita ? There was one ISKCONite here named, "Krishna Das" who believed that all Advaitins were demons !

Enough said. I don't feel like saying much now. It feels me with disgust to say anything further.

OM

[smaranam]

Namaste

Please understand, and please do not put words in my mouth. I am not KRishna Das or those ISKCON devotees you met.

I am saying that the two major categories are SKEW LINES once one gets down to serious matter. They are ! And, if your goal is nirantar prema-bhakti especially Vraja bhakti, then yes, advaita coaxing that oneness means NOT TWO or else your ignorance remains, IS poison to a beginner or neophyte. I remember talking to SOV, his statement "Bhakti has its purpose only till one realizes the self. If everything is Him how can the bhakta not be Him ?"
Also Atanuji "Why do you need another pair of eyes ? "

For a bhakta, oneness means tadAtmiktA. Some people pointed out KRshNa did not invite Radha to some event in Dwaraka. Radha smiled and said "Doe one give themselves an invitation ? I am always with Him" (Kya koi apne aap ko nyota deta hai ?) Yet, Radha is an entity, and KRshNa is an entity. Their devotees have to be entities to be at their service.

Yashoda does not say "Why feed my Baby ? Why dress Him up in alankars ? I am wearing jewellery, and I am not hungry, and my Lalla is one with me"

Akrura does not say "Why bring Kanha to Mathura ? I am Him, I live in Mathura"

LAkshmi does not say "Why press His Lotus Feet ?"

Like Wundermonk, i also had this notion they are not (skew lines), but it is not so.

Oneness with VishNu in VishNu purAN is far different from "I am VishNu because the pot is now broken"

KRshNa loves all jivas, and He gives various paths - different paths for different inclinations. He sent Uddhav to the Gopis, and He said what He said elsewhere. He made it so it can be interpreted either way.

Please look at this rationally. I don't know the solution -
perhaps fewer common areas ? Like scriptures, philosophy etc. ?
OR else, make it a forum for jnana dhyana, raja-yoga and tantra as the main themes. They cannot be mingled with VaishNav bhakti.

Where is the question of any ill-feeling arising ? Please let us not have any.

om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya

_/\_

[NayaSurya]

Please forgive me for not saying more when those post come up.

I had always tried to come in a give another perspective when i see one so overtly generalized to one slant. But lately I just feel so disconnected from all of this...

Each of us is on our own personal journey, the path is precisely selected and designed only for us...some of us are the Lover...and some of us are the Fighter...and some of us are the Renunciate...and some are all three together and a billion other things.

No path...no path is the only way...no path is on the top in SD!

Beloved could snatch anyone of us up in an instant to come dwell with Him. I think not one of us would turn this wonderful gift away!

When we get into our differences I often chuckle to see that what each person say is often just a variation of what the other said....and I can accept both as true.

I say this many times about the hill...that day when I came down that beautiful pristine hill in Bernheim Arboretum only to find that the hill was full of sharp edged limestone and flint which cut me to bits...and the others upon the top of the hill would not believe me as I say it was trecherous to roll down. So they too were also harmed by these rocks.

Each of us has a point of perspective which is our own and makes our world what it is...and each of them accurate in this realm we have made.

Until something come along and change our direction.


But no one person will or could ever have that much affect upon us to veer us off our own course defined by what we are slated to do within this lifetime.

And I am very confident that no matter what any one of us would say here in this forum...what must happen will happen...who we are and who we will discover we are, is dictated by this fact and our own actions, thoughts and words.

We shape this world/HDF!

So if there are not enough Bhakti topics, let's makes some.<3

[devotee]

Please understand, and please do not put words in my mouth. I am not KRishna Das or those ISKCON devotees you met.

I am saying that the two major categories are SKEW LINES once one gets down to serious matter. They are ! And, if your goal is nirantar prema-bhakti especially Vraja bhakti, then yes, advaita coaxing that oneness means NOT TWO or else your ignorance remains, IS poison to a beginner or neophyte. I remember talking to SOV, his statement "Bhakti has its purpose only till one realizes the self. If everything is Him how canthe bhakta not be Him ?"
Also Atanuji "Why do you need another pair of eyes ? "

Like Wundermonk, i also had this notion they are not (skew lines), but it is not so.

Oneness with VishNu in VishNu purAN is far different from "I am VishNu because the pot is now broken"

KRshNa loves all jivas, and He gives various paths - different paths for different inclinations. He sent Uddhav to the Gopis, and He said what He said elsewhere. He made it so it can be interpreted either way.

Please look at this rationally. I don't know the solution -
perhaps fewer common areas ? Like scriptures, philosophy etc. ?
OR else, make it a forum for jnana dhyana, raja-yoga and tantra as the main themes. They cannot be mingled with VaishNav bhakti.

Where is the question of any ill-feeling arising ? Please let us not have any.

om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya

_/\_

Namaste Smaranam,

What gives you authority to speak on behalf of all Vaishnavas and interpret Vishnu Puran so confidently, I am unable to understand ? What authority you have to say that these paths are so utterly different ... that earlier you had doubts and now you have realised that they are totally different ?

It appears that you have realised Vishnu/Krishna. So dandavata to you.

OM

[charitra]

RadicaI I may sound to learned smaranamji /others, after reading Gita several times, I felt the underlying deeper message is advaita afterall, simply it is difficult to look at Gita in anyother way, I may be wrong.

Bhakti marga is a gift of brahman to mankind.

Some rambling,some random thoughts. It is the Advaita that clearly sets apart Hinduism from abrahamic faiths IMO, since nothing remotely comparable to advaita exists in these latter faiths. in fact they call it blasphemy. All skeptics and atheists out there have great difficulty to refute Advaita, also it has a clear semblance to consciousness theory that is gaining popularity in recent times ; fair to say consciousness theory has its origins in advaita doctrine. Contrarily dvaita stands an easier target for the naysayers. So long as they keep advaita in their religious equation people have no reasons to become atheists. Opponents of Hinduism,at least most of them, were stunned into silence on realizing the strength of the thought of oneness of it all, which serves a very humbling consolation and all rhetoric against religion consequently weakened significantly, thanks to advaita. ;) Namaste.

[smaranam]

Dear Naya


"No path...no path is the only way...no path is on the top in SD!"

I agree. Precisely my point. But some think everyone has to be ultimately coaxed into absolute attributeless oneness or else they are in 5th grade.

Some think everyone has to be proselytized into KRshNA-bhakti.

BOTH are wrong.

And some quote KRshNa's statement about "being like spoons and laddles that cannot taste the food if you have not realized Brahman" Those who are free of anartha, exist for happiness of the Lord Svayam, and in all hearts,
but maintain individual existence, CAN taste the food. They have realized Brahman, but not in the keval-advaitic sense.


"But no one person will or could ever have that much affect upon us to veer us off our own course defined by what we are slated to do within this lifetime. "

Here i do not agree with you nor does Lord Chaitanya nor the gurus. The mind is very delicate, like a child. Even if they are not completely veered from their destined path, it will delay in the shraddhaa step to take firm hold. Hence beginners are cautioned. Their shraddhaa nishThaa has to be firm before rUchi takes shape. "Why render service to the Lord or anyone else ? Why not skip alankar today ? Why talk to myself ? This is all just me"

@Charitraji, VaishNav school is also very scientific, can also display science and many a scientists from the West as well as IITians of India have suddenly said "Eureka" and taken up this path. The president of Radha-Kunjabihari Temple Pune, graduated from IIT Pawai and gives seminars on bhakti yoga to the industrial world if they are interested.

Hare KRshNa
_/\_

[Mana]

Namaste smarnam, all

What can I say of any real relevance, I am so new to this world that my words views thoughts and feelings are but tears in a rain fall of much greater eminence. I find that I am drawn to all aspects of this fantastic body of scripture and thought, yet the enormity of the task which is the navigation, both outwardly and internaly, philosophic posture in a world as competitive and intellectually violent as that of my current surroundings.

I find my self drawn in Advaita to defend against the elements whilst remaining functional; moving to Vaishnava for true solace and comfort when needing emotional regeneration, which is often in these cold harsh times.
I have recently come to appreciate Rama and thus Hanuman; Hanuman as like the wind, my station and belief changes in accordance with that which I might need, in order to swim and sail against currents, not all of my making.

I read most all of your posts smaranam and gain much energy from the love which you imbue into your writing from a devotion which is clearly of the highest order.
I thank everybody on HDF for the wisdom and love that is shared here, I can't begin to explain how this forum has opened both my heart and my eyes to the possible depths of life which await my exploration and inspire me with love for the future.

Surely all these paths are one, it is the same garland of light which binds them and thus us all. Are not any who feel bound to any one sect, cutting off their noses somewhat, despite many beautiful faces?

Thank you all for your guidance.

praNAma

mana

[satay]

namaste smaranam,

Thanks for the suggestion but no we will not change HDF's name to you what you are suggesting.

HDF is a 'generic' hindu forum for members to discuss all schools of hinduism. This is why you see all different categories and sub categories of forums on the main page.

I expect that a member who has a question say about bhaki yoga clicks on the appropriate sub forum designated for that discussion.

That said, most members who actively post are or seem to be belonging to advaita school and there are very few (only you?) members that post about other schools.

I wish there were more members representing all schools so that the newbies can be presented with better options (?)/opinions.

The reality is members will give opinions and advice based on their own learning and experience and since there are many more active advaitins the advice seems to be always from that point of view.

May I request you to be more active, bring your friends and tell them to be active too on the forum. That way newbies get a balanced point of view and better direction aligned to their needs.



Namaste dear Hindu Dharma Forums

Thank You from the bottom of my heart for everything.

A humble suggestion :

The name of these forums should perhaps be changed to

"Forums for Advaita Hindu Dharma"

We have been having many members who are blank slates -- absolutely new to Sanatan Dharma. They have no clue that Sanatan Dharma has two major [sets of ] philosophies.
ONE- whose goal is moksha into NirguN Brahman via jnana, dhyana, raja-yoga, tantra.
TWO- whose goal is Personal Bhagvad prem seva - VaishNav dharma, pure bhakti marga.

While upAsna mArga may vary, all other schools (except VaishNav) are at least heading for the same goal - ONE.

The title of the forums will at least give an idea to the newcomers about what the main theme is before they dive in.


I hope this suggestion will be taken in good spirit.

praNAm

[smaranam]

Namaste

I understand.

---

@Mana, i am glad you liked the posts/found them helpful.

----

Dear friends,

Please forgive me if i said something wrong. It is all facts and not personal. What would i gain by hurting my friends' sentiments ? Friends are precious gems. So please do not take this the wrong way.

Please forgive my foolishness, mistakes, vices, harshness, stupidity and childishness. I told you HDF is the mother who listens to any gibberish of this child. That does not mean the child shouldn't grow up, yet deserves to be forgiven i hope ? by Mother.

praNAm _/\_

[devotee]

Namaste Charitra,


RadicaI I may sound to learned smaranamji /others, after reading Gita several times, I felt the underlying deeper message is advaita afterall, simply it is difficult to look at Gita in anyother way, I may be wrong.


It applies to this "devotee" too. :) My real journey to spirituality started with Bhagwad Gita. I kept reading Bhagwad Gita, each chapter one day ... for years & looked for different translations ... trying to understand the message of the Lord clearly. Earlier I started with the dualist's view & I was very very confused ... because some verses didn't make any sense to me .... they were seemingly contradictory to message given in other verses. I came to know of Advaita message much later. Then I started reading Upanishads and found that most of the message in Bhagwad Gita has already been conveyed in Upanishads. In fact, I found that some verses of Kathopanishad were taken almost word-by-word in Bhagwad Gita. Then I understood that this saying : "The Upanishads are the cows. Lord Krishna is the expert Milkman & the Bhagwad Gita is the milk extracted from Upanishads by Lord Kroshna" has to be kept in mind while trying to interpret Bhagwad Gita.

As my understanding of Advaita became clearer and clearer ... my understanding of Bhagwad Gita improved sharply. Today I can say that I have no confusion on correct meaning of any verse in Bhagwad Gita. The message of Advaita became even more clear when I read Uttar Gita wherein Lord Krishna advocates Advaita as the highest knowledge.

***************

Bhakti Marg and Advaita are not exclusive to each other. Bhakti has been prescribed as the first stage even by the Advaita teachers. However, this Bhakti is of different type. It doesn't ask you to beg in front of God. It asks you to talk to God in the same manner with the same confidence with which you talk to your biological father. Advaita is against having "slave-master" relationship with God ... or weeping and chest beating in front of God. It emphasises "Father-Son" or "Mother-Son" relationship with God. If you have anything to ask from God, ask as if it is your right to receive that thing from your father ... as you are his son. It also advocates not to be bound by any image or mental constructs of God as it would become a hurdle later on as it happened in case of Ramkrishna Paramhansa.

Let's remember that Ramkrishna Paramhansa proved that Bhakti & Advaita would finally reach the same destination i.e. One-ness with God. Getting attached to one name/one form becomes a hurdle ... Ramkrishna was attached to the name & form of Goddess KAli & this prevented him from attaining Choiceless SamAdhi. He was helped by Swami Totapuri, a SannyAsi from Shakara's Puri order to break the image of KAli which had become the hurdle for him. This is a well known history. Any one is free to check it from the life-history of Sri Ramkrishna Paramhansa.

*********

All this is not my imagination. Whatever I have said on this forum anytime is with scriptural proof or what the great saints have said. ... and from whatever I have come to know of Bhakti and Advaita ... Imho, they are certainly not exclusive to each other as great saints have said.

However, I may still be wrong ... Smaranam may be right. But beyond this point only Actual Experience of the reality can be the acid test. Let's practise ... tread on the path to see for ourselves what is right and what is wrong ===> "Prataykahsam kim PramANam" ===> Direct experience doesn't need any proof.

OM

[kallol]

My humble submission :

This is a great forum with huge knowldege base from different PoV.

We all are unique and so the perspective and the interpretations of the knowledge will be different. It is great of Hinduism that it accomodates so much varied perspective. it allows each to define his/ her cozy home, where he / she feels comfortable.

This forum also helps one to grow up. However as we have seen many times, people have moved out to seek better places for virtual satsangs.

My request would be only to recognize the facts that we all are unique in terms of knowledge, background, realisation, (space & time in the eternal journey), etc. And respect each other uniqueness.

The apparent right and wrong are only reflections of the mind's maturity.

Neither I am here to preach or teach nor I am here to prove myself. i enjoy the forum as it helps my mind to seek higher.

I enjoy presence of all members as I would when amongst my family. Thanks to all of you for making this forum so dynamic and personal.

[shian]

hm.... :(

the fact, we have so many way (theory) here
and from the begin to now, never become one,
the fact is become so many many theory now

1, face this fact, we as the devotee of God, will use it to respect each other ? (as the beautiful of different theory and ways)
2. or, use it to blame each other ?
or use it to get the reason to blame each other ?
what religion want to give to this world ? peace or harted ?

what we will choose to see this fact ?
1. is this a grace from God to teach different peoples ?
2. or, this is a product of satan who create sect and theory who is not our sect and not our theory ?

if we choose number 2 , we choose to made more enemy in our life and more fight to outer, not to our inner. We choose to life in terrorr that we face satan or evil everday who create other sect and other theory.

[Mana]

Namaste smaranam, All

After a little thought and reflection, I feel that you are highlighting an extremely valid and important point. The inherent danger on the path of a Jnana yogi. The need for illumination from God, with out which the jnana is blind. The relative nature of this blindness being its essence.

Many are those who in the belief that they are acting on the will of God bid there own black deeds and thoughts onto the world.

Just as many are those who through blind devotion and misinterpretation do little to spread light and thus wisdom.

I should state that to my mind; the Jnana yogi who is not lead to bhakti, still has much to learn.

The belief that one is God without his guidance; eloquently demonstrates the ease with which one may become demonic, narcissistic.

This highlights the essence of and importance of satsang. The Guru, friend, friends who cover ones back from the veil of delusion, above all the empathy and humility needed to be able to form this relationship.


praNAma

mana

[smaranam]

Namaste Shian,

You have not understood my point at all.



1, face this fact, we as the devotee of God, will use it to respect each other ? (as the beautiful of different theory and ways)
2. or, use it to blame each other ?
or use it to get the reason to blame each other ?

Who is blaming whom ? This is not about blaming, it is about awareness.
Do you want everyone to march into something unaware of where they are heading ?


what religion want to give to this world ? peace or harted ?

peace of course. Nobody is indicating hatred on this thread. It is a misunderstanding that this thread is about hatred.


what we will choose to see this fact ?
1. is this a grace from God to teach different peoples ?
2. or, this is a product of satan who create sect and theory who is not our sect and not our theory ?

Just to be clear, "grace from God to teach different people" is precisely the point of this thread. It is wrong to think we can put the entire Absolute truth in writing 100% and say all paths lead to blank white screen just because it is convenient.

I shall not discuss this any more.

praNAm

[shian]

Namaste Smaranam,

i not wrote about you

but im sorry if this make not good.

Everyone will be said their own sect is most True or anythings superior.
This is normal.

but if we know peace, so no problem.

Aum Shanti