PDA

View Full Version : Soul vs Self



Moonlight
27 November 2011, 03:38 AM
Message to mods: please accept this post, this topic is bugging me and I can't rest till I understand the issue.

Alot of people teaches that we have soul which is a spirit, also in books the word "Atman" has been translated as "soul". In the Jehovah witness book "mankind search for god" they picked up on how the Gita uses the term soul and they used that to make themselves look better then the Hindu scriptures. (they did it to all religions in that book)

So my question is: why have atman been mistranslated from "Self" to "soul"?

Soul = human being
Atman = self/consciousness 

Eastern Mind
28 November 2011, 08:23 AM
Message to mods: please accept this post, this topic is bugging me and I can't rest till I understand the issue.

Alot of people teaches that we have soul which is a spirit, also in books the word "Atman" has been translated as "soul". In the Jehovah witness book "mankind search for god" they picked up on how the Gita uses the term soul and they used that to make themselves look better then the Hindu scriptures. (they did it to all religions in that book)

So my question is: why have atman been mistranslated from "Self" to "soul"?

Soul = human being
Atman = self/consciousness

Vannakkam Moonlight: The definitions and perceptions will vary, depending on sect. I'll give you my version. The soul is the soul body, a body of light that reincarnates, building a new physical body around itself each time. The essence or core of the soul body is the Self, that which is identical in nature with God.

This is how my sampradaya makes a distinction. Not all will agree, and some will use the word's interchangeably, yes.

Welcome to the forum, BTW.

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
28 November 2011, 11:27 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

More on ātman can be found on this HDF post:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=8270

praṇām

Jainarayan
28 November 2011, 12:03 PM
Namaste Moonlight.



So my question is: why have atman been mistranslated from "Self" to "soul"?

Soul = human being
Atman = self/consciousness

I think the word soul is used as a catch-all, umbrella term familiar to westerners. It does indeed refer to the immortal spirit, but it's not entirely accurate to equate with ātman or jiva alone, which have subtle differences in themselves. Use of the word "soul", imo, is a merging of "ātman" and "jīva". I hope this doesn't confuse you more.

Wikipedia has this to say:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atman_(Hinduism)#Miscellaneous
Often atman is mistaken as being interchangeable with the word jiva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiva) with the difference being somewhat subtle. Whereas atman refers to the self, jiva refers to the living being, the exact comprehension of which varies throughout the philosophical schools.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiva


In Hinduism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism) and Jainism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism), a jiva (Sanskrit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit_language): जीव, jīva alternate spelling, jiwa) is a living being,[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiva#cite_note-0) or more specifically, the immortal essence of a living organism (human, animal, fish or plant etc.) which survives physical death.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiva#cite_note-1)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiva#cite_note-2) It has a very similar usage to atma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atman_(Hinduism)), but whereas atma refers to "the cosmic self", jiva is used to denote an individual 'living entity' or 'living being' specifically.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiva#cite_note-3)

saidevo
28 November 2011, 08:29 PM
namaste Moonlight and others.

Whatever way the words 'soul, spirit, self and consciousness' are used in English today, they had these meanings originally:

• soul: spiritual and emotional part of a person, animate existence; the seat of the animating principle.

• spirit: animating or vital principle in man and animals.

• self: one's own person, same.
[Trying to define yourself is like trying to bite your own teeth. [Alan Watts]]

• consciousness: internal knowledge.

(Ref: http://www.etymonline.com/)

In an electric bulb, electricity passes through the wire in the filament. So, if we call electricity the spirit, as the animating principle, we would then call the filament soul and the bulb (individual) self. What about the light-switch here? We might perhaps call it the state of consciousness (on/off) of the individual bulb.

Unlike the western religions, Hinduism associates consciousness--prajna, with Brahman aka Atman or Self, which is the animating principle. Indidualizations of this universal Self with the limitations of physical and subtle bodies give rise to individual souls--jIvas and places their consciousness in one of three states: wakefulness, dreamy sleep and deep sleep.

In the case of the electric bulb, the animating principle is just a form of physical energy which has no consciousness of its own. Whereas with the individual soul, the animating principle is a single entity (Brahman) whose nature is consciousness, so the individual souls are enabled to know and experience their source and ultimately merge with it.

Adhvagat
28 November 2011, 09:42 PM
Etymonline is a great resource.