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shian
12 December 2011, 09:08 PM
Vanakkam,

hm....

every religion from ancient until now, still have debate about many things etc...

maybe some moment we will feel satisfied when talk with people who same opinion and view with us,
or when we can subdue the argument of others who weak.

But that is still in one condition,
no any person can become a king who gain victory in debate against whole religions in worlds in many ways...

sometimes i feel... we walk in same circle and there is no hip and no edge

when i first saw Hindu and Buddhism, i also very naive
i feel wow, this religion is no such problem who is make abrahamic religion hurt each others.

But walk in time by time
i realize that in Hinduism and Buddhism, all of religion in the world, there is have same problem and debating some stuff, and this is no end...

sometimes i tell my self, this enough
not my business and i dont care anymore

religion is too much political thinking

this is not mean i will walk in or i will walk out

i only know, what is important and what is not important

enjoy our everyday

enjoy our every breath

be grateful

wundermonk
13 December 2011, 04:19 AM
i realize that in Hinduism and Buddhism, all of religion in the world, there is have same problem and debating some stuff, and this is no end...

Hi Shian:

Unfortunately, you are right. Hinduism and Buddhism did have a rough "intellectual" encounter in history. But one saving grace is that no group slaughtered or killed the other.

Each one of us is a spokesperson for the philosophy we hold dear in our heart. When that is questioned, we will seek to defend it vigorously, no?


i only know, what is important and what is not important
enjoy our everyday
enjoy our every breath
be grateful

This is a great philosophy to live by.

NayaSurya
13 December 2011, 11:14 AM
You are a sweet, wonderful Portion Shian<3

Once, I also felt this way.

When I first see the arguing it was very sad but over time I began to understand.

These heated conversations and arguments are very needed. Like a diamond is polished, so too is our understanding.

Sometime it take this friction for others to know and to grasp things. To know where they stand. It help them identify what they are, and what they are not.

So do not feel sad, please.

It's all oki fine!<3

charitra
13 December 2011, 12:52 PM
Vanakkam,


sometimes i tell my self, this enough
not my business and i dont care anymore

religion is too much political thinking

this is not mean i will walk in or i will walk out

i only know, what is important and what is not important

enjoy our everyday

enjoy our every breath

be grateful

agree.
Sat sangh means good company, it is good to talk to fellow hindus time to time. Even argue and yell, all is fine so long as one has that sat chit ananda bliss in ones core persona. Namaste.

yajvan
13 December 2011, 12:57 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast&#233;


every religion from ancient until now, still have debate about many things etc...

maybe some moment we will feel satisfied when talk with people who same opinion and view with us, or when we can subdue the argument of others who weak.

True and honest debate is not for the debaters but for the listener. It is there to lift one up to a higher level of understanding.
If there is just word war-fare ( jalpa) then little is gained. It is when there are points and counter-points. We see this in many great works ( the brahma sūtra-s would be an example); in this case the author points out the arugments to the audience ( the reader) then debates the points of contention. In that manner one is brought to a deeper level of learning.

Now the tougher question - can this, and does this occur today ? Many have opinons on this.

For some, debate is just noise and there is no need for intellectual stimulation. For others there is this need to know reality on a more intimate level and for that information and insight is desirable.

For me, I am most attracted to conversations that compare and contrast views; I am not much interested in my views ( or religion) is better then yours kind of thinking - for me this is small thinking which is just one more boundry I needn't concern myself with.

praṇām

shian
14 December 2011, 01:40 AM
Thank you all

your reply is give me spiritual benefit

i have saw a few of peoples who love to do religious debate and then the end is make self pride (not only religion VS other religion, but also sect VS other sect in same religion)
but when i know closer with these winner (debate winner), and i already know, that he still have many problems and distress , cant control emotion etc , there is even someone who not see religion is important in his life can controled his emotion and can have more healthy life better than this debate winner...

This fact opened my eyes...

Yes off course not all of debate is bad, some is usefull and good, make spiritual improve, then in this kind of debate , i really see Saraswati Maa.

But many of us (peoples in Kaliyug) debate then the end is listener not gain any spiritual improve, there is only create harted and arrogance etc... When beside this, their life still full of sufferings and distress... even for the extrem in their personal life they not have healthy life (their lifestyle very cruel and have some behaviour against their own sect)

this is many fact of this Kaliyug

wundermonk
14 December 2011, 02:47 AM
but when i know closer with these winner (debate winner), and i already know, that he still have many problems and distress , cant control emotion etc , there is even someone who not see religion is important in his life can controled his emotion and can have more healthy life better than this debate winner...

:Roll:

I think you have pretty much nailed it right there.

The point of debate is sometimes more about scratching your own ego. Truth be told, no one [theist, atheist, Muslim, Xian, Hindu, Buddhist] probably has a clue about why we are here or what the universe is all about.

But, unfortunately, each of us holds one belief closer to our heart than others and will seek to find confirmation of that belief everywhere. "Defeating" opponents in debates provides one such confirmation.

But you are right...being the best philosopher or logician or debater means nothing to having a healthy emotional lifestyle.

What really really has a bearing on one's life is past Karma/Reincarnation and nothing else. :Cool: [Runs away]

shian
16 December 2011, 12:35 AM
hm... only feel tired to see the conflict who end with harted
not because i am is Buddhist then see Buddhist VS Hindu
But this also happened between Hindu vs Hindu or Buddhist vs Buddhist (sect VS sect)

but i love Sanatana Dharma
i have tell myself, this is ocean life and death, this is ordinary human (this is will always happened in samsara)

Mana
16 December 2011, 02:42 AM
Namaste shian,

Just a few of my thoughts for your kind consideration.

If you bring joy, as you do with your postings, to these poor folk who know not of any other way, yet. You will find, I am sure, the universe conspiring to help you.
These rifts that you see will take time to heal this is a large natural cycle like the beating of the earth's heart, that fact that you see them; is that healing taking place.

Growth must happen for life to prevail. You can find release and relief from this by your devotion, of that I am sure.

You are part of a better future in which there is wise counsil and guidance.

praNAma

mana

shantiseeker
14 January 2012, 10:54 AM
I am at a crossroads. I've looked at Hinduism. (I'm a westerner). I still practice yoga and believe there is something to the chakra energy centers. I like the Gita.
But I do know that I'm not destined to become a "true" Hindu. I greatly like many of the principles, but I don't think Hinduism can be my only path, but part of it. Yes, I come from the US, but was not raised going to church, so it's not like Christianity was "forced" and "emblazoned" on me. I chose a Christian path for a while as it seemed the logical thing to do, since the generic Xmas and other "Christian" holidays were always observed in my house in the generic sense. Chrisitanity and the whole Jesus is the only way and you'll burn in hell if you don't believe that and accept him, etc is not anything I accepted even when I identified myself as "Chrisitian". I surely don't think it now. I believe he was a man who was a messenger and had compassion, and yes, like many in that time, was crucified.
I will keep elements of Hinduism probably as part of me, but I know I can't go any further than that, and I'm not about to be fake. Some people do this as a phase. I never really revealed to anyone but my spouse that I was looking at Hinduism. I still like the mantras and find them God inspired. I just know I can't ever truly be a Hindu.
And getting to the point the OP was making, yes, there are divisions and debates in every religion. This is why I am pursuing a free course as I've tried to do, and I doubt I'll ever "sign off" again to an official religious body unless it truly embodies what works for me. I remain a seeker of peace still.

Mana
14 January 2012, 12:14 PM
Namaste shantiseeker,

If I might offer a few thoughts for your consideration.

God is not in religion, religion is a way to God, nothing more or less. A guide book. I would humbly suggest that you stop looking directly at the religion its self, in order to know that it is only the path and not the goal.

Have you noticed how badly translated some of the instruction manuals are today? Especially for cheap, mass manufactured goods; Yet the advertising is so finely polished.

I prefer the ancient hand crafted ways, the quality of the workmanship speaks for its self.


praNAma

mana

sm78
14 January 2012, 01:09 PM
I am at a crossroads. I've looked at Hinduism. (I'm a westerner). I still practice yoga and believe there is something to the chakra energy centers. I like the Gita.
But I do know that I'm not destined to become a "true" Hindu. I greatly like many of the principles, but I don't think Hinduism can be my only path, but part of it. Yes, I come from the US, but was not raised going to church, so it's not like Christianity was "forced" and "emblazoned" on me. I chose a Christian path for a while as it seemed the logical thing to do, since the generic Xmas and other "Christian" holidays were always observed in my house in the generic sense. Chrisitanity and the whole Jesus is the only way and you'll burn in hell if you don't believe that and accept him, etc is not anything I accepted even when I identified myself as "Chrisitian". I surely don't think it now. I believe he was a man who was a messenger and had compassion, and yes, like many in that time, was crucified.
I will keep elements of Hinduism probably as part of me, but I know I can't go any further than that, and I'm not about to be fake. Some people do this as a phase. I never really revealed to anyone but my spouse that I was looking at Hinduism. I still like the mantras and find them God inspired. I just know I can't ever truly be a Hindu.
And getting to the point the OP was making, yes, there are divisions and debates in every religion. This is why I am pursuing a free course as I've tried to do, and I doubt I'll ever "sign off" again to an official religious body unless it truly embodies what works for me. I remain a seeker of peace still.

You don't need any religion to be human and good. You were not born with any religion, it was imposed on you. Likewise you don't need to impose another religion to get even.

Pursuing a "free" course is great, but be careful about the self-obsessed fantasy that westerners are more prone to fall into while charting a free course. There is an entire new age industry which has grown up to make money out by pushing people more into the vortex of their own fantasies about themselves - and this is no good. Just a reminder of the danger, while wishing you best to set up own course. Buddha did it, every body has to do it at some point (perhaves). But it is not supposed to be easy or comforting.

sm78
14 January 2012, 01:11 PM
Namaste shantiseeker,

If I might offer a few thoughts for your consideration.

God is not in religion, religion is a way to God, nothing more or less. A guide book. I would humbly suggest that you stop looking directly at the religion its self, in order to know that it is only the path and not the goal.

Have you noticed how badly translated some of the instruction manuals are today? Especially for cheap, mass manufactured goods; Yet the advertising is so finely polished.

I prefer the ancient hand crafted ways, the quality of the workmanship speaks for its self.


praNAma

mana

+ 1

....

shantiseeker
15 January 2012, 08:04 AM
Namaste shantiseeker,

If I might offer a few thoughts for your consideration.

God is not in religion, religion is a way to God, nothing more or less. A guide book. I would humbly suggest that you stop looking directly at the religion its self, in order to know that it is only the path and not the goal.

Have you noticed how badly translated some of the instruction manuals are today? Especially for cheap, mass manufactured goods; Yet the advertising is so finely polished.

I prefer the ancient hand crafted ways, the quality of the workmanship speaks for its self.


praNAma

mana

Yes-good point. I agree that religion is definitely not God , but the journey to know God. This is part why I am not labeling myself any "particular" religion itself. If one happens to fit in for whatever reason, that's great, but if I can find inspiration by reading writings from many religions' particular paths to God, why not. There isn't just one.
But yeah-older crafts are more chiseled too. Got your point there. :)

shantiseeker
15 January 2012, 08:20 AM
You don't need any religion to be human and good. You were not born with any religion, it was imposed on you. Likewise you don't need to impose another religion to get even.

Actually, no, not really. I chose to explore my own paths as a kid-we didn't go to church. It's just that as an American, the obvious Judeo-Christian influences were the strongest, but again, nothing was "forced" on me. I didn't have to attend catechism, Sunday school, "confirmation" etc. We just didn't do that in my family growing up. My parents weren't the least bit religious, so I explored things totally on my own.

Pursuing a "free" course is great, but be careful about the self-obsessed fantasy that westerners are more prone to fall into while charting a free course. There is an entire new age industry which has grown up to make money out by pushing people more into the vortex of their own fantasies about themselves - and this is no good. Just a reminder of the danger, while wishing you best to set up own course. Buddha did it, every body has to do it at some point (perhaves). But it is not supposed to be easy or comforting.

In terms of being a self-obsessed fantasy based Westerner, no, that's not me and what my spiritual path is like. East and West may be different, but it goes both ways. Each doesn't understand the other the greatest. There are many people here in the US who give at the expense of their own comfort, freely and unconditionally. My wish to know God is because I have a lot of anger and resentment and lack of peace that I feel makes me a lesser person to OTHERS. When I meant "free", I didn't mean some willy nilly new age, flowers flowing sort of thing. I want to commune with God so that I can better person, not just for me, but for others like I said. Of course I want peace for my own self-who doesn't? But when a person is more at peace, that peace then begins to help them be a better person to others. I don't feel I'm where I need to be in that. Not that I think I'm some nasty, narcissistic bill of goods, but I'm still not at all where I want to be. And I don't expect ease and comfort. Not feeling spiritually fulfilled in fact has been very uneasy and very uncomfortable, so I'm not afraid or trying to avoid that either.