Can't invent Truth. Rather discover.

[brahman]

Dear seekers,


Spiritual experience is not arrived at as a logical conclusion of inductive or deductive reasoning. It is a wholesome transformation of all the dissonance nature in one’s personality into a harmonious resonance with the truth.

Although reasoning is an excellent tool for making a unitive understanding beneficial to all concerned, it has no potential of its own to make a person enlightened.

Only the wise sees that the essence of all search is the love for happiness. Those who know this transcendental essence remain calm and smile with compassion when their fellow men brandish weapons of threat in the confused clang of competition.

By appreciating and imbibing the essentials of another faith we will only rediscover the greater hidden truths of our own faith. Unitive understating alters one to appreciate that the essence of all religions is the same. Hence, religion in Bharatvarsh is called Dharma, because it sustains the entire traditionally preserved essential values of every individual’s life, and it remains the essence of the Great Vedas.

All we need is a constant remembrance of our natural unity in the universality of being.

Thus Guru
------------------------------

“How can any Premaanas 'Valid means of knowldge' work with this unthinkable, ineffable enlightenment”

Being no object of any senses organ, the Truth is not knowable by perception.

About something already perceived thorough sense-contact alone we can make some interference(anumaana) later.

The self being a reality never perceived before with senses, it is not inferable either.

The only indirelty helpful premana is sabdha or verbal testimony, for its is the words of instruction the seeker hears or reads from an authority, a realised person. Such words, too, do not make the seeker liberate straight away; teh seeker will have to ponder over them mediatatively, no one knows how long.

How do we ponder it traditionally? Please advice. love:)





[Ref: Some valid means of knowledge, known as premana, are admitted by different schools of thought. Pretykasha, anumaana, upamaana, artthapatti, anupalabdi and shruti(sabda, aagama) are the six Vedanta recognises as valid. (Vedantha paribhasha Dharmaraja Adhwarindra to see how they are acceptable)]

[NayaSurya]

By appreciating and imbibing the essentials of another faith we will only rediscover the greater hidden truths of our own faith. Unitive understating alters one to appreciate that the essence of all religions is the same. Hence, religion in Bharatvarsh is called Dharma, because it sustains the entire traditionally preserved essential values of every individual’s life, and it remains the essence of the Great Vedas.





All we need is a constant remembrance of our natural unity in the universality of being.






At your feet this morning, hoping that I do not offend with this very lowly contribution.



You have asked for input, or I would not come to the door of Advaita as I realize this is only a portion of the picture... therefore, I should never comment to those fully in this angle or I could perhaps cause upset with my own. It would be rude to come to the door of one with differences. But, I come in the spirit of your request as it is not dealing with the angle in this post.



____



There was a man who is named david koresh...and he molested children and made the adults read the bible for days without food or sleep.



This was a religion...and there are many many like it.



Neti Neti- Not this nor that. It is the blessed reasoning to know when something is going in a direction that is very disturbed.



There is nothing to learn from such religions but Neti Neti. As nothing in this world could be further from my heart than such things.



All religions are not the same. I wish they were, but, because some Portions here are so deeply deeply confused...they cause harm with religion. Use it to control, not to educate and seek Truth.









The self being a reality never perceived before with senses, it is not inferable either.

Brahman, we have eyes aside from this organic vessel. It is a valued sense, even in this debilitated state such as we are.

Remove the body and this crude sight organ from the formula and the other higher sight will shine through.

The Self is observed with this sense...

This is this tiny portion's angle from my own travels and observations. I have not had the luxury of one who would come such as a Guru and tell me the Truth in full.

I am as the old gold miner upon a stream...sifting through the sediment to uncover the Truth. So this has given me enough experience with the sediment to know it isn't always the same as the Gold.

[brahman]

At your feet this morning, hoping that I do not offend with this very lowly contribution.



You have asked for input, or I would not come to the door of Advaita as I realize this is only a portion of the picture... therefore, I should never comment to those fully in this angle or I could perhaps cause upset with my own. It would be rude to come to the door of one with differences. But, I come in the spirit of your request as it is not dealing with the angle in this post.



____



There was a man who is named david koresh...and he molested children and made the adults read the bible for days without food or sleep.



This was a religion...and there are many many like it.



Neti Neti- Not this nor that. It is the blessed reasoning to know when something is going in a direction that is very disturbed.



There is nothing to learn from such religions but Neti Neti. As nothing in this world could be further from my heart than such things.



All religions are not the same. I wish they were, but, because some Portions here are so deeply deeply confused...they cause harm with religion. Use it to control, not to educate and seek Truth.



Brahman, we have eyes aside from this organic vessel. It is a valued sense, even in this debilitated state such as we are.

Remove the body and this crude sight organ from the formula and the other higher sight will shine through.

The Self is observed with this sense...

This is this tiny portion's angle from my own travels and observations. I have not had the luxury of one who would come such as a Guru and tell me the Truth in full.

I am as the old gold miner upon a stream...sifting through the sediment to uncover the Truth. So this has given me enough experience with the sediment to know it isn't always the same as the Gold.








Excellent dear NS,

You have successfully developed a methodology, giving weight on both logic and experience. Really beautiful.


------------------------------------------------
In Advaita Vedanta there is no room for such pre-conceived formulas, instead it says;

When considering Brahman an object of worship or mediation, where the worship and the worshiped are differentiated, seeker still consider Brahman empirically. As long as the duality between the subject and the object exists, any such considerations of Brahman is really an effect of ignorance.

Of, course some such methods may help one attain to hiegher levels of understanding.

Conditioning factors in oneself are not to be sensed with as the final goal of meditation, though they may aid in realization. Since happiness, joy and bliss are perceived to be different of intensity or feebleness in relation to one another and in respect of different enjoyers. Intensity co-exist only with difference, where as Truth, Brahman is without any difference....

-----------------------------------------------

NayaSurya Wrote:

"Remove the body and this crude sight organ from the formula and the other higher sight will shine through."




That is right, the body mind duality has to be transcended before one can 'visualize' this common ground of all truth or reality.

And then, the Absolute Being has to be understood in terms of becoming as one is in reality a counterpart of the other when looked upon from the standpoint of dialectical thinking.

Please examine this reasoning (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=8815) and kindly share your thoughts if any



-------------------------------
Please Note

In Advaita Vedanta

Subject is 'I' consciousnesses(the knower, drik)

Object is Our metal faculties such as budhi, manas, chita and ego, sense organs plus the whole objective world. (The known, drisya)


This is a deviation from the point view of our usual perception, in which knower is something resides within our body(along with mental faculties and ego) and known is the objective world around us.


Thank you so much for joining this thread dear NS. Love:)





.

[NayaSurya]

Very sincerely at your feet today that I did not disturb your wonderful post. I whole heartedly agree with the title and thoughts here with those exceptions above and so did not want to derail.

Namaste, Beloved ...Beloved Everything<3

I wish that I could comment upon your other very wise posts, as I do feel this conversation is very wonderful. However, you request advanced thoughts and I am not advanced and so can not do this honor.

From this perspective I have come to understand that Advaita and Dvaita are both parts to a whole picture and can not be removed from each other if I wish to move forward on this personal journey. I do not see a difference in them at all and therefore can not be worthy to post in one aspect or another. Recently I discovered this middle place has a name called Acintya bhedåbheda.

For me the Rose is a portion of Beloved's matrix of creation. Everything is. This realm is grossly manifested with the Power of Beloved to manifest in the way which He desires.

As you can see, I am unfit for the conversation. But, I will say...despite me not being able to contribute with wisdom, I will still be reading your every word.

At your feet,
Beloved, Beloved Everything<3

[brahman]

Very sincerely at your feet today that I did not disturb your wonderful post. I whole heartedly agree with the title and thoughts here with those exceptions above and so did not want to derail.

Namaste, Beloved ...Beloved Everything<3

I wish that I could comment upon your other very wise posts, as I do feel this conversation is very wonderful. However, you request advanced thoughts and I am not advanced and so can not do this honor.

From this perspective I have come to understand that Advaita and Dvaita are both parts to a whole picture and can not be removed from each other if I wish to move forward on this personal journey. I do not see a difference in them at all and therefore can not be worthy to post in one aspect or another. Recently I discovered this middle place has a name called Acintya bhed&#229;bheda.

For me the Rose is a portion of Beloved's matrix of creation. Everything is. This realm is grossly manifested with the Power of Beloved to manifest in the way which He desires.

As you can see, I am unfit for the conversation. But, I will say...despite me not being able to contribute with wisdom, I will still be reading your every word.

At your feet,
Beloved, Beloved Everything<3





Dear NS,


Your are right, true philosophies (whether it be Gaudiya, Dvaita, Advaita,etc..) lead to freedom at the higher levels of life, lead to freedom applying to the human spirit with all its hopes and aspirations, lead to freedom understood in terms of intelligence or right conviction about the Self or reality treated as a whole.


------------------------------------------------------------
Lets have a glimpse on your beautiful signature quote, the famous vedic tree of life.




Two birds, fast bound companions,



Clasp close the self-same tree.
Of these two, the one eats sweet fruit,
the other looks on without eating.


On the self-same tree a person, sunken,
Grieves for his impotence, deluded.
When he sees the other, the Lord, contented,
& his greatness, he becomes freed from sorrow. RV.1.164.20These two birds are intimate friends clinging to each other, in A/Vedanta they are called Iswara and jiva, two immediate counterparts, dwell in the subtle body, which holds in itself the tendencies and impression created by desire, impotence and action. Of the two, individual soul enjoys the fruit of action. The other, the God, Iswara, who is by nature eternal, pure, wise and free, who is omniscient and has Maya as his limiting adjunct; does not taste the fruit at all, but merely looks on.


Because of its confinement to the forms of its desires and actions, the Jiva feels itself to be impotent, confused and helpless. Perchance with the compassionate guidance of a blessed one, the Jiva may someday, by purification, discipline and meritorious life, achieve the sameness of vision to see the true light that shines within, recognizing “I am the Bight Person who is the self of all and is the same in every being”
----

A/Vedanta further continues,then he or she would shake of all the duality, such as merit and demerit and all kinds of action that constitute further bondage. Having become freed of all blemishes, the self will attain, the imperishable Self, the ABSOLUTE equality, reaching beyond or higher or even unexplainable than its own dualistically understood counter parts, duality and non-duality.


Thanks very much and Love:)

------------------------------------------------------------

Things are explained on the standpoint of A/Vedanta and not relating to any terminologies used in the post such as 'Acintya bhed&#229;bheda'.

[NayaSurya]

I very much like your ideas about my signature, very beautifully stated.<3

To me, these birds represent the potential each of us have.

Some will play these parts, engage this realm. Others, will watch on...no longer engaged in this worldly play.

By witnessing the other, each of these Beings is given a fuller view of our realm.

For the whole of this manifested creation to continue, both must do their part.

For without the actors a play can not continue...and without the patrons...also...a play can not continue.

The patrons, may see the actors as bound by the drama....and to the actors upon the stage...the patrons may seem they have the less exciting role.

But actors are free to leave the stage at any time...just as the patrons can take up a script and begin to act.

Both have a time and place.

Thank you for continuing to indulge this foolish girl a moment more<3

[NayaSurya]

I wanted to come back to reply to something which was said in my kudos.

Yes, David Koresh is a Portion of Beloved. But, in his current state within this realm...beings such as he was, must be avoided at all turns. He was extremely dangerous.

Actions thoughts and words define what sort of Portion we are.

Some of us are of a very high vibration here...almost light.
Some are manifesting on the very lowest layer of vibration...mostly dark.

He was deeply deeply confused...and confusion of the origin of his true state did cause his actions which were infinitely harmful.

His religion, at its essence, can not ever and will never align with Sanatana Dharma.

All is Beloved...some further away and some closer to that state of Being.

This is how we can know that everything here is not functioning in a way which we can explain with simply one perspective and with our limited abilities to understand the wonders of Beloved.


Such beings prove something is going on here...which is undefinable... inconceivable in our current humble state of being.


At least to me, Beloved Brahman.

But, I concede that I have been born in a place of profound unawareness....a place of the sleeping.

I have not had the benefit of wiser portions to show me anything which will explain these anomalies within this realm. Yet.

Anyone in the vicinity of my home is welcome to come show me more and upon hands and knees, this humble dog will gratefully accept it.

Hari Om Beloved...Beloved Everything

[brahman]

I wanted to come back to reply to something which was said in my kudos.

Yes, David Koresh is a Portion of Beloved. But, in his current state within this realm...beings such as he was, must be avoided at all turns. He was extremely dangerous.

Actions thoughts and words define what sort of Portion we are.

Some of us are of a very high vibration here...almost light.
Some are manifesting on the very lowest layer of vibration...mostly dark.

He was deeply deeply confused...and confusion of the origin of his true state did cause his actions which were infinitely harmful.

His religion, at its essence, can not ever and will never align with Sanatana Dharma.

All is Beloved...some further away and some closer to that state of Being.

This is how we can know that everything here is not functioning in a way which we can explain with simply one perspective and with our limited abilities to understand the wonders of Beloved.


Such beings prove something is going on here...which is undefinable... inconceivable in our current humble state of being.


At least to me, Beloved Brahman.

But, I concede that I have been born in a place of profound unawareness....a place of the sleeping.

I have not had the benefit of wiser portions to show me anything which will explain these anomalies within this realm. Yet.

Anyone in the vicinity of my home is welcome to come show me more and upon hands and knees, this humble dog will gratefully accept it.

Hari Om Beloved...Beloved Everything








Totally agree to your persuasions Dear NS. Quality of mercy, kindness has to be conceived as a double blessing and its absence as a double disaster. For this we have zero doubt. At the same time favouritism towards any of these is a form of duality; to whichever the side it might be applied.

Good and evil are two potentially operative tendencies in the psycho-physical dynamism of human life, which is a natural expression of the one truth. All individuality, uniqueness or difference of detail belongs to extraneous world of actions and reactions, which do not touch the deep-seated Self in man; just as the wind and the waves leave unaffected the deep waters at the bottom of the ocean.

Philosophy should satisfy, not merely the intellectual or academically valid aspirations of our interest in truth, but must bring us nearer to happiness which is our goal in life. Love:)

[anirvan]

[INDENT][INDENT][INDENT][INDENT]









In Advaita Vedanta

[QUOTE]Subject is 'I' consciousnesses(the knower, drik)

Object is Our metal faculties such as budhi, manas, chita and ego, sense organs plus the whole objective world. (The known, drisya)


Dear Brahman,excellent post.I just want to point out one clarification on EGO mentioned as Drisya.

Ego is the very self of the knower,drasta.At no point this ego will be visible/perceived,as it will be drisya,then the very self will be extinguish.But self realization is ACTUALLY BE ESTABLISHED IN SELF(true ego ).

At no point in spiritual up-liftment,ego dissapears or lessens.Its actually change its position,so always remains in the background of perception till it will be identified with AHAM BRAHMASMI(Brahman).


This is a deviation from the point view of our usual perception, in which knower is something resides within our body(along with mental faculties and ego) and known is the objective world around us.

I think the ego mentioned above statement is about the pride or relative ego in worldly sense.Because our ego is always ego of Brahman,the real self,but disillusioned due the duality and attachment to prakriti.


Jayaguru

[brahman]

I think the ego mentioned above statement is about the pride or relative ego in worldly sense.Because our ego is always ego of Brahman,the real self,but disillusioned due the duality and attachment to prakriti.


Jayaguru

Dear Anirvan, You have already clarified ego as ahańkāra. Thank you


Ego is the very self of the knower,drasta.At no point this ego will be visible/perceived,as it will be drisya,then the very self will be extinguish.But self realization is ACTUALLY BE ESTABLISHED IN SELF(true ego ).

You are right, Every situation of knowledge involves a subject (I-sense, ahanta) and an object (this- sense, Idanta).
Knowledge in which these two are absent is called Nirupadhika Jnana (unconditioned consciousness), means it is the knowledge in which no object separate from the subject exists. In other words it is the knowledge where the subject or “I” becomes an immediate (having no intervening medium) object of knowledge. Love:)