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Friend from the West
06 February 2012, 07:49 PM
Hari Om,

Namaste

I was once taught in a victory; sometimes winning cost too much. I won but crushed another, ruined any chance of relationships, and impacted many others in adverse manner. There was a third alternative present, and I did not take it. Shame on me. I think this is good lesson for here as well.

Secondly, being introduced to Forums here, still much to learn about Forums in general. As I have reviewed my posts, I have seen times where perhaps subconsciously, the fact that I am not seen if you will, has permitted to me to communicate in style I would not usually do. For this, shame on me. I think this is good lesson for here as well.

I realize that I am a guest here to what has meant very much to me, and I am but an ignorant one. I, as guest, as ignorant one, as Westerner, etc.. do not want anyone to think I am being condescending as intent, but see tension here as of late that seems very much different than tensions from other times. Perhpas to some, on the face of the evidence, this reaction seems shrill, but this whatever it is, seems to be spreading. Seeing some portions who have not witnessed yet, communicate in way that seems foreign for them.

See some people who seem to have so much knowledge to me, come on a thread like machine gun; blam, blam, blam, with their knowledge and their prescious points. No civility present. Just their knowledge. Valueless in and of itself.

Some are treating this most beautiful Lady, Sanatana Dharma, like a whore, and some in defense of this beautiful Lady, are forgetting what they are doing with their counterpoints (and on and on and on), forgetting Her, and just going on and on and on, no longer being mindful, ego in over drive. In their fight to "defend", they actually cause more harm to Her, than the attacker. Both attack Her just the same.

The dynamics seem more divisive over all, than in past. Even if I handled this wrong, if it helps end the crickets chirping where there used to be dialogue, some from portions that do not see so much as of late, if it adds civility to this Forum that represents so much, if it allows for continued debates from those who recognize Who they are debating, than it is worth it.

This, from me is probably not so different either, perhaps at best a diatribe. In the eye of the beholder. If I am out of place, I would rather be banned than ostracized.

I do wish everyone the best. I am frustrated no doubt, but mean no harm, and realize that I have so very much to learn yet. I have learned so much from you dear portions here at HDF. This forum, is set up in rare manner I have found through trying to learn forums, what it represents is most priceless and everlasting, the interaction with those here has been life altering, and I am eternally grateful.

Om Shanti

FFTW

wundermonk
07 February 2012, 01:19 AM
@Friend from the West:

Good sentiments.

As one of the posters who opened a contentious thread leading to the ban of atleast one member, I will take a break from HDF for a while.

But HDF is addictive :)

So, I will see how long my self-imposed ban will last.

Chao all. Keep safe.

/swithces on Lurk Mode
WM

Believer
07 February 2012, 05:44 AM
Namaste,

See some people who seem to have so much knowledge to me, come on a thread like machine gun; blam, blam, blam, with their knowledge and their prescious points. No civility present. Just their knowledge. Valueless in and of itself.
I am sorry that you, a kind soul, got subjected to a barrage of meaningless heated arguments which crossed all bounds of human civility. Things do flare up from time to time in the forum, when individuals with certain agenda come here trying to convert everyone into their brand of Hinduism and are totally uncompromising. The best thing to avoid pain under those circumstances is to put those individuals 'on ignore', so that you don't see their posts. That is the most practical way to insulate yourself. As long as their human interaction, there will be strife and actions arising out of passion, which will hurt the spectators. We cannot change others, but we can reduce or eliminate our exposure to them by using the 'ignore' option.

Pranam.

Jainarayan
07 February 2012, 09:56 AM
Namaste.

I too find it dismaying that there has been a plethora of political discussion that degenerates into invective. There have been a plethora of Abrahamic discussions, in which at least one person cries out how evil Abrahamic religions are; and how Jesus is inconsequential to Hinduism. So why are these subjects brought up?

To my way of thinking, the Abrahamic discussions should be policed more heavily, or forbidden altogether. If Abrahamics are inconsequential to Hinduism, as has been said on more than one occasion, why is there a section for it? I don't know if this was meant to be a comparative religions site that has just taken a wrong turn. If there were a way to select only the forums one wants to read, that would be great, as one site does, but not all forum software supports it.

I've noticed that a number of posters who are quite knowledgeable on subjects of Sanatana Dharma have not posted in a long time. And that is a shame, because they are the people with whom I've had learning and informative discussions. I've learned a lot from this site, more than I probably would on my own. I've said that in the past and I mean it sincerely. But to be perfectly blunt, too many discussions are going down the crapper; these discussions do not put Sanatana Dharma or Hinduism in a postitive light for those who lurk. We tend to forget that there are people who lurk and read, as if they were reading a library book. How many people have these discussions turned off and turned away? We'll never know. I too think it's time to back away, at least for a time.

Sahasranama
07 February 2012, 10:05 AM
You can not blame the people who do their best to correct people who come here and post their personal imaginations about Hinduism. In the case fo Surya Deva, the nonsense he posted was ego driven, you can't expect people to stroke his ego and flirt with him. Precily because there are lurkers it is important that nonsense is dealt with, we don't want lurkers to get confused with new age drivel.

Eastern Mind
07 February 2012, 01:37 PM
Vannakkam all: This problem really did bother me a few months back. It still does, but not to the same extent. At that time I started a few new threads, that could focus on positive stuff. That's where I see the solution lying. If the only threads that get started are negative ones, what can we expect?

It's kind of like only speaking your mind when you have something to get off your chest. Why not speak up at other times?

Personally, at the moment, I personally have no more ideas for new threads. And that's part of the problem people are seeing. HDF has basically covered it all. At least for me, that's true. So when someone new comes in, all they have to do is start reading. That will most likely answer all the questions they have. I do notice that we often have 10 or more people viewing, occasionally much higher. It's probably the most vast resource on Hinduism here on line. That is a great thing. I mean, how many times can we hash things over and over. There is a limit.

Aum Namasivaya

satay
07 February 2012, 01:48 PM
namaste,
Perhaps we can think of closing HDF postings for a day or two a week? Meaning no postings are allowed for a couple of days a week.

Eastern Mind
07 February 2012, 03:55 PM
namaste,
Perhaps we can think of closing HDF postings for a day or two a week? Meaning no postings are allowed for a couple of days a week.

Vannakkam: If that would help you in keeping this site up and running, then I'm all for it. Was that part of your reasoning?

Aum Namasivaya

Sahasranama
07 February 2012, 03:57 PM
You should consult an astrologer to know when it is shubha tithi to debunk nonsense. :)

Believer
07 February 2012, 04:25 PM
Namaste,

Just as darkness follows every daylight; just as destruction follows every creation; so will contentious behavior follow every period of calmness in the room. To me the only way to control is to have an on-site 'Rudeness Control Officer', who will pro-actively delete the offending posts and Ban the poster right away. Do we really want that? Does anyone really have the time to monitor the site 24/7? Have we become so sensitive that we cannot tolerate occasional quibbling? Are we incapable of walking away from offensive material by using the "IGNORE" option? Must we fall into the trap of responding to every misinformed, hurtful post with a long winded counter post of our own? Just some of the things to consider.

Pranam.

PS Given the choice, I would vote against 'no posts' for a day or two every week. Reason: When some ideas come to me, I have to put them down right away, else they disappear for ever. Don't laugh! You too will get to that stage some day. And it will happen sooner than you think. :)

Eastern Mind
07 February 2012, 04:43 PM
Namaste,

Just as darkness follows every daylight; just as destruction follows every creation; so will contentious behavior follow every period of calmness in the room. To me the only way to control is to have an on-site 'Rudeness Control Officer', who will pro-actively delete the offending posts and Ban the poster right away. Do we really want that? Does anyone really have the time to monitor the site 24/7? Have we become so sensitive that we cannot tolerate occasional quibbling? Are we incapable of walking away from offensive material by using the "IGNORE" option? Must we fall into the trap of responding to every misinformed, hurtful post with a long winded counter post of our own? Just some of the things to consider.

Pranam.

Vannakkam: Unfortunately, some sites have exactly that. Poor ____ s. You'd have to pay me ... really pay me. :)

Then there was forgetful Bob, a former colleague. Always borrowing money, $5 at a time. Nice guy, just forgetful. So then one day a group of 5 of us decided to all ask him for it back, on the same day. It went, "Hey, Bob, where's that $5 I lent you three weeks ago?" and he'd just cough it up, nice guy that he was. Someone had made sure to get him some 5s, can't remember how that worked, but it did. We all had an extra 5 bucks before recess. Finally he caught on.

Aum Namasivaya

Ramakrishna
07 February 2012, 08:40 PM
Namaste all,

I have been reading most of the posts lately but I haven't been posting myself because I've been preoccupied with school and my sadhana. I think I will have time to post now, at least somewhat regularly.

The only suggestion I have in terms of the never-ending Abrahamic/Jesus threads and discussions is to have a sticky or something in the Abrahamic subforum that clearly and concisely states HDF's position and tolerance of discussions and posts relating to Abrahamicism and Jesus. There have been a number of posts by several members in the past which excellently state the complete irrelevance of Christianity and Jesus in Hinduism. I would be glad to go into the archives and find them if there is interest.

Another perhaps more bold and upfront option would be to actually state HDF's policy on Abrahamic/Jesus in the official rules of the forum that new members are required to read before they join. There are already rules about no flaming, no spamming, etc., but perhaps making a specific "rule" that all new members will be required to read before joining the forum will guarantee that they are aware of what is tolerated and allowed when it comes to discussing Abrahamic religions and Jesus.

I believe the Abrahamic subforum can and has been useful to discuss the Abrahamic religions as they pertain to being a threat to Hinduism and India as well as how to defend Sanatana Dharma from the onslaught of vicious Abrahamics. However, it should not be used for nonsense such as discussing Jesus as an avatar and it also shouldn't be used to pointlessly bash the Abrahamic religions, which has rarely been done.

Also, there have been other unproductive threads not about Abrahamicism but about politics and agenda-driven nonsense. In that case, perhaps an overarching rule or statement should be created that states our policy on such topics.

One last thing to remember is that this is the world wide web and there will always be people who find their way into the forum with their own agenda and try to push that on other people. The best thing would be to have those members banned immediately, but Satayji is obviously not able to police this forum 24/7. In that case, I agree that their nonsense should not go unchecked and portrayed as the truth to lurkers.

I believe that a firm, bold, and above all visible statement of HDF's policy on Abrahamic/Jesus, political, etc. discussions, along with civilly effective member contributions against inevitable agenda-driven newcomers, as well as ongoing efficacious moderation will enable HDF to flourish as a wonderful satsang.

Jai Sri Ram