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Eastern Mind
14 February 2012, 07:39 PM
Vannakkam: I just finished watching a news report on our local TV. It was about at South Asian community here having about 4 times the risk of heart problems compared to other ethnic groups. The insinuation was that South Asians from India, Sri Lanka,and Pakistan have a genetic predisposition to heart problems, and an already existing high rate of diabetes.

I was appalled that the researching doctor didn't once mention that diet was a possibility, or even a factor. They even interviewed one guy who thought the blame should be put on refined sugar, "Back home we ate natural sugar."

Meanwhile there are movements afoot to tax sugar the way we tax alcohol and tobacco, fulling knowing that its not good for you.

But how do we approach someone who has an ingrained habit like this, and don't want to break it? Pretty hard to convince someone, I've tried. Same goes for salt.

Before cane, and the cane operators promoting the amazing healthiness of it (like the tobacco plantations with them, or the meat and dairy producers of today) was the Indian diet that sweet?

http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/sugar.htm

http://rheumatic.org/sugar.htm

Aum Namasivaya

saidevo
14 February 2012, 10:45 PM
namaste EM.

Wiki article on sugarcane says that crystallized sugar was reported 5,000 years ago in the Indus Valley Civilization, located in modern-day Pakistan and north India.

• Goddess KAmAkShI holds a sugarcane bow and bunch of flowers in the lower two of her arms and has a pAsha (lasso), an angkusha (goad) in her upper two arms.

• KAmadeva, who was burnt to ashes by Shiva, aimed his arrows at Shiva with his bow of sugarcane.

• Among the 64 lIlAs--sports of Shiva that the PurANas speak of, making a stone elephant eat a sugarcane is one.

• The ikSh in the ikShvAku dynasty in which shrI RAma was born, probably refers to sugarcane (wiki).

• Speaking of rearing elephants, agnipurANam says that a food of yava--flour-yielding corns and ikShu--sugarcane will give strength to the elephants. Other PurANas speak of lakes of sugarcane juice in the seven dvIpas--divisions of the terrestrial world.

• In ancient India there were certain social conventions regarding drinking of alcoholic preparations. All those drinks which were intoxicants were not listed as 'Alcohol'. Wine, honey, toddy, juice of sugarcane, juice of Iruppa and Kutampuli, and sweet toddy of palm tree were not considered alcohol. sura (liquor) chiefly meant Paisti (liquor made out of rice paste). Drinking of Sura was banned to the three castes, brAymaNa, kShatriya and vaishya.

Thus it seems that sugarcane has been a ubiquitous sweetener in ancient India, right from the days of RAmAyaNa or even earlier.

Eastern Mind
15 February 2012, 07:59 AM
namaste EM.

Wiki article on sugarcane says that crystallized sugar was reported 5,000 years ago in the Indus Valley Civilization, located in modern-day Pakistan and north India.


Vannakkam Saidevo: Thanks for this. Still I somehow doubt that the degrees of use was as much as it is today. I can't imagine the same extent of cultivation, but like any history, it is hard to say. Could well have been worse.

When I was in Mauritius, people spoke of their grandparents or great-grandparents who were the indentured laborers. They said stories were told of being malnourished, but the one 'good' thing was they always had cane to chew on.

Aum Namasivaya

saidevo
15 February 2012, 08:06 AM
namaste EM.

Unlike these days, every man, woman and child in ancient India and the days of bullock cart and horse riding, exerted themselves in all walks of life by hard physical labour, which could have dissolved any excess blood sugar.

It would be interesting if someone can explore if the disease of diabetes is mentioned in Ayurveda or in Dharampal's works.

Sahasranama
15 February 2012, 08:11 AM
Diabetes in ayurveda is called madhumeha roga, it was tested by peeing on ants. If the urine didn't repell the ants, it was because of high sugar content of urine. Modern research has found that the Indian vegetable karela lowers blood sugar.

Eastern Mind
15 February 2012, 08:17 AM
namaste EM.

Unlike these days, every man, woman and child in ancient India and the days of bullock cart and horse riding, exerted themselves in all walks of life by hard physical labour, which could have dissolved any excess blood sugar.

It would be interesting if someone can explore if the disease of diabetes is mentioned in Ayurveda or in Dharampal's works.

Vannakkam: That's very true. There is quite the debate going on in health circles regarding the causes of obesity, America's (and elsewhere) greatest health issue, and the debate centers around which is the greater force, overeating, or lack of exercise? (Personally, I go with the latter.)

I doubt that diabetes was mentioned, just as many other diseases wouldn't have been. Most likely the best thing that could be determined is life expectancy, which is a general indicator of a nation's health.

Certainly, in village India (and elsewhere) today, there is a lack of awareness of basic hygiene in food preparation, and a higher rate of water-borne disease is a result. So I don't see sugar consumption dieing down anytime soon. I'm not sure if people would know what e-coli was, let alone diabetes.

Aum Namasivaya

Sahasranama
15 February 2012, 08:31 AM
I am not sure if the ancient ayurvedins were able to differenciate between species of bacteria like e-coli, but surely micro organisms as a cause of disease was recognised in Ayurveda.

The ashtanga hridaya, Nidana XIV, 51 mentions:

जन्तवोणवः। अपादा वृत्तताम्राश्च सौक्ष्मयात्केचिददर्शनाः॥
jantavoṇavaḥ| apādā vṛttatāmrāśca saukṣmayātkecidadarśanāḥ||

These organisms are unicellular (anu) round and wihout limbs (vritta, apaada), and invisible to the naked eye due to their highly minute structure. (saukshmyaad adarshana)

Ayurveda doesn't recognise micro organisms as a primairy cause of disease, but as a secundairy, caused by an imbalance of the doshas (the idea is similar to having a lowered immune system that causes bacterial growth).

saidevo
15 February 2012, 08:36 AM
Diabetes in ayurveda is called madhumeha roga, it was tested by peeing on ants. If the urine didn't repell the ants, it was because of high sugar content of urine. Modern research has found that the Indian vegetable karela lowers blood sugar.

Thank you. Here's more information on the subject:
http://www.ayushveda.com/health/diabetes.htm

devotee
15 February 2012, 06:29 PM
Namaste EM,


Vannakkam: I just finished watching a news report on our local TV. It was about at South Asian community here having about 4 times the risk of heart problems compared to other ethnic groups. The insinuation was that South Asians from India, Sri Lanka,and Pakistan have a genetic predisposition to heart problems, and an already existing high rate of diabetes.

I was appalled that the researching doctor didn't once mention that diet was a possibility, or even a factor. They even interviewed one guy who thought the blame should be put on refined sugar, "Back home we ate natural sugar."

Meanwhile there are movements afoot to tax sugar the way we tax alcohol and tobacco, fulling knowing that its not good for you.

But how do we approach someone who has an ingrained habit like this, and don't want to break it? Pretty hard to convince someone, I've tried. Same goes for salt.

Before cane, and the cane operators promoting the amazing healthiness of it (like the tobacco plantations with them, or the meat and dairy producers of today) was the Indian diet that sweet?

http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/sugar.htm

http://rheumatic.org/sugar.htm

Aum Namasivaya

Thanks for raising a very important issue ! Scientifically, sugar is to be blamed for many of the problems we are facing.

Saidevo ji may be right that use of Sugar may be prevalent in India for more than 5000 years ago. However, the lifestyle at that time and lifestyle today are very much different. Earlier eating Ghee (clarified butter) was considered very good for health but everyone today agrees that it is not good for heart. In my opinion, moving towards more sedentary and luxurious lifestyles where we are in today demands from us change in food habits.

So, let's lessen our intake of Sugar and Ghee ! However, it is difficult for me to convince my wife that eating sugar or sweet things is not good for me. She says that as I am slim, I should not be unnecessarily cautious so as to take away the taste from the life !

OM

Eastern Mind
15 February 2012, 06:53 PM
However, it is difficult for me to convince my wife that eating sugar or sweet things is not good for me. She says that as I am slim, I should not be unnecessarily cautious so as to take away the taste from the life !

OM

Vannakkam Devotee|: Indeed it is hard to argue with such a one. :) And herein lies the problem. If a really intelligent guy like you can't break the habit, or cut down, how about the people who are severely addicted.

We (friends and I) cooked one day at the temple, as the lunch sponsor. I asked my Tamil friend how it was, and he just said, "Not bad, but could have used a bit more salt." So my ENT doctor friend (Ear, Nose, and Throat) was standing there and I asked him about salt intake, and he simple said, "Don't add any more than is already in food. If you eat any processed food at all, that will be plenty." So my other friends says, "Oh yes, we know that," and then just adds more salt anyway. The regular cook puts in about half a cup for sambar to feed 150 to 200 people. If there is piusam (sp?) served it disappears fast. But hey, all you can do is point it out. :)

I remember being back on the Board of Trustees, when I was just getting to know people, and we had these ridiculously long meetings hammering out a constitution, and so coffee or tea would be served. I took it black back then. My Tamil friends had never heard of such a preposterous idea!
:) ... as they put like 3 teaspoons of sugar in it.

Aum Namasivaya

anirvan
16 February 2012, 12:56 AM
Salt is not a factor for diabetes, but excess salt will cause high osmotic pressure
and hence retain more water content in blood.so instead of normal 5-6lit of blood in healthy person,one will retain 8-10liters,which will put excess strain on heart muscles to pump it (which is 60-100 times/min). So early cardiomegaly and congestive cardiac failure chance will be more.

Again high volume of blood will exert more pressure on vascular structure,which in long run cause kidney failure,stroke,heart attack,eye bleeding and vision loss.

Sugar intake if exceed the natural consumption will be stored as glycogen and fats all over the body except brain and cause lots of changes... Fatty liver leading to liver failure,constrict blood vessels leading to stroke,heart attack,renal failure etc.

Excess sugar in blood will put un-necessary stress on Pancreas and develops Insulin resistance,hence diabetes.

So depending upon our output(in terms of work/exercise) we should take the food. Even protein,fats also contain calories,(will ultimately converted to sugar inside the body by liver).

So food intake on a whole should be regulated with 60% carbs,20-30% protein and 10-15% fats. still hungry?:) .fill with fibres/salads/fruits/water.

devotee
18 February 2012, 06:01 AM
Namaste Anirvan,


Salt is not a factor for diabetes, but excess salt will cause high osmotic pressure
and hence retain more water content in blood.so instead of normal 5-6lit of blood in healthy person,one will retain 8-10liters,which will put excess strain on heart muscles to pump it (which is 60-100 times/min). So early cardiomegaly and congestive cardiac failure chance will be more.

Again high volume of blood will exert more pressure on vascular structure,which in long run cause kidney failure,stroke,heart attack,eye bleeding and vision loss.

Sugar intake if exceed the natural consumption will be stored as glycogen and fats all over the body except brain and cause lots of changes... Fatty liver leading to liver failure,constrict blood vessels leading to stroke,heart attack,renal failure etc.

Excess sugar in blood will put un-necessary stress on Pancreas and develops Insulin resistance,hence diabetes.

So depending upon our output(in terms of work/exercise) we should take the food. Even protein,fats also contain calories,(will ultimately converted to sugar inside the body by liver).

So food intake on a whole should be regulated with 60% carbs,20-30% protein and 10-15% fats. still hungry?:) .fill with fibres/salads/fruits/water.

Are you a doctor, Anirvan ? Your post has made me worried and I am afraid to read it all again ! But one thing is true. Even if I take all the care as doctor/Anirvan advises, I am still going to die !

(P.S. --That doesn't lessen the importance of having a good health and following your advice !)

OM

anirvan
20 February 2012, 03:07 AM
[QUOTE=devotee;79046]Namaste Anirvan,



Are you a doctor, Anirvan ? Your post has made me worried and I am afraid to read it all again ! But one thing is true. Even if I take all the care as doctor/Anirvan advises, I am still going to die !


unfortunately yes :D ,(a MD doc from aiims)healthy diet is not at all difficult to follow.just adequate salt9 with no extra addition),pure veg foods/salads/fruits without sweets and fried items will be a balanced health diet.

its true that now days in urban population, majority of death is due to cardiac/renal complication-result of bad diet and sedentary life,top of it is alcohol/smoking.

Namaste

devotee
20 February 2012, 07:38 AM
[QUOTE]
unfortunately yes :D ,(a MD doc from aiims)healthy diet is not at all difficult to follow.just adequate salt9 with no extra addition),pure veg foods/salads/fruits without sweets and fried items will be a balanced health diet.

its true that now days in urban population, majority of death is due to cardiac/renal complication-result of bad diet and sedentary life,top of it is alcohol/smoking.


OK, Anirvan. After your credentials are revealed, I have no option but to follow your advice ! BTW, my diet is pretty simple ... but I need to cut down on sugar intake.

OM

Believer
20 February 2012, 12:08 PM
Namaste,

........ excess salt will cause high osmotic pressure
and hence retain more water content in blood.so instead of normal 5-6lit of blood in healthy person,one will retain 8-10liters
If you can't control your salt intake, donate blood regularly, and more often than an average person, so as to not distress your pump? :)

Pranam.