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Jainarayan
15 February 2012, 03:17 PM
Namaste.

Maybe it's because my mind is not disciplined, I cannot seem to concentrate or derive anything (feeling) from the mantra Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya when I do japa. Certainly I know it's meaning, but I don't "connect" with it. I know that properly a mantra should be given by a guru, but I do not have a guru, and most likely never will. I chose Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya because I've read that is the one for Vaishnavas to use, that it brings you close to Krishna.

On the other hand, I read that when one is not initiated, one should not chant mantra japa, but rather nama japa. If I understood what I read, should I not use Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya or Om Sri Krishnaya Namaha, or another mantra? Rather, I should just chant "Krishna, Krishna, Krishna..." or "Govinda, Govinda, Govinda..." or "Rāma, Rāma, Rāma... " on my mālā? If so, I think even that's very nice in itself. http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

c.smith
15 February 2012, 05:18 PM
Hari Om!

There are several schools of thought on this. I'll offer my own humble suggestions with the hope that you will find some clarity and comfort within.

Speaking from my own experience, it took some time to feel a connection to the mantra and further, the bond between deity and myself through mantra. Not sure how long you've been practicing with said mantra, but concentration does come over time. Feeling may. I might suggest sticking with it, but again it's only my opinion.

Then again, another school of thought WOULD be to change things up and take a new mantra. While I'm not totally for this, I'm also not totally against it either. My bias would have you reciting "Rama Rama Rama" but you must go with what resonates.

Perhaps you could do both? Could one be the catalyst for the other?

You state that you don't have a guru and most likely never will. Is this a personal choice? A preference? If not, please be open to one coming to you knowing that the God that you worship may in fact be your first guru (just a thought) but will certainly lead you to the correct source if it is to be. No harm in asking for guidance however.

On a final note, I admire that you include japa in your sadhana. Many are just "too busy" or may have some other obstacle that keeps them from committing from practicing. Hari Om my friend!

Om Namah Sivaya
Jai Hanuman!

Jainarayan
15 February 2012, 06:06 PM
Namaste.


Speaking from my own experience, it took some time to feel a connection to the mantra and further, the bond between deity and myself through mantra. Not sure how long you've been practicing with said mantra, but concentration does come over time. Feeling may. I might suggest sticking with it, but again it's only my opinion.

I see, maybe I am expecting too much too soon from the mantra. I feel connected to Krishna Himself, though I wish I knew Him better. I feel very connected to Lord Narasimha. I feel like He is my spiritual "bodyguard".


Then again, another school of thought WOULD be to change things up and take a new mantra. While I'm not totally for this, I'm also not totally against it either. My bias would have you reciting "Rama Rama Rama" but you must go with what resonates.

Perhaps you could do both? Could one be the catalyst for the other?

I have thought about trying a different one or two to see which one, as you say, resonates. I have thought about Om Sri Krishnaya namaha and Om Sri Krishna sharanam mama. Though I know the second one is a mantra of Swaminarayan, I feel like He truly is my refuge, safety and sanctuary. I see it as running to Him and letting Him envelope me in His love and protection in all things. And maybe therein lies my affinity and affection for Lord Narasimha.


You state that you don't have a guru and most likely never will. Is this a personal choice? A preference? If not, please be open to one coming to you knowing that the God that you worship may in fact be your first guru (just a thought) but will certainly lead you to the correct source if it is to be. No harm in asking for guidance however.

I think it would be great to have a guru. It's a matter of opportunity. I live in any area where there is only one temple, about 20 miles from me. When I could get there, they are conducting services. Then the temple closes. I don't know if there's a financial aspect, which is a hardship for me. But aside from that, I don't even know how to go about finding a guru.


On a final note, I admire that you include japa in your sadhana. Many are just "too busy" or may have some other obstacle that keeps them from committing from practicing. Hari Om my friend!

Om Namah Sivaya
Jai Hanuman!

Thanks... and here I feel like I'm not doing enough, properly, and now I hear some people don't do it at all! ;)

Jainarayan
15 February 2012, 07:04 PM
Well, another mystery of the universe solved. There is nothing wrong with the Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya mantra for me... it is me. Or rather was, has been... whatever verb tense you like... all along. It is my breathing and rhythm that's been off. I also used a melodic chant this time. By focusing on those and bringing them together, though my mind did wander from time to time (to be expected, I suppose), I found it easier to bring myself back by and focus on japa. It was a pleasant feeling. :) I know this will take practice.

c.smith
15 February 2012, 07:55 PM
Hari Om!

Just a suggestion, but perhaps a brief pranayama session before japa - say 5 minutes or so. This will help with concentration and your breathing during jap. If able and wanting to take it a bit further, one could do a light yoga session before the pranayama, say 5 - 10 minutes in length. In combination this would help to center, calm and help one to reflect.

All the best to you.

Om Namah Sivaya
Jai Hanuman!

Jainarayan
15 February 2012, 08:00 PM
Thanks, I think you are right. I never thought of that. Well, that's not entirely true... I had it backwards. After my japa tonight I sat for a few minutes, eyes closed, breathing easily and letting my mind empty (which isn't hard :D). It was a nice effect. I have to do this regularly.

sm78
17 February 2012, 04:48 AM
To start with you can concentrate on the image of lord krishna in the sweetest form you can imagine which is a living & breathing one, this should give rise to some bliss in the mind - japa can then ride on this bliss flow and perpetuate it further.

Jainarayan
17 February 2012, 09:04 AM
Namaste sm78. Thanks. :)

When I do japa, it's usually in front of His image. If my eyes are open, I focus on His mischievous and loving facial expression. I also look at how Srimati Radha looks at Him with love.

If I close my eyes and/or I'm not in front of His image, I imagine Him frolicking with His mates and the gopis, and being the lovable tease and prankster. That's when I have the best success. I haven't yet gotten that "ingrained" in my practice, nor have I let myself hear His flute music calling. There are so many things running through my head I forget why He plays the flute... to call us to Him.

sm78
17 February 2012, 09:07 AM
It may be that you took the less important part of my suggestion to be more important, so I re-iterate.
<<<this should give rise to some bliss in the mind - japa can then ride on this bliss flow and perpetuate it(bliss) further>>>

Imagination is a tool to activate the innate ananda in us and the idea is not to get lost in an imaginary story line. Novel reading would be more effective for that. In vaisanava terms I am talking about the harnessing the rasa/"juice" in visualization and not the visualization itself. Krishna playing flute and frolicking with gopis can be a very dry visualization taxing the mind with little benefit, unless you are the gopi and get the pleasure from this, which is the rasa of this visualization, and on which japa can be enhanced. Maybe a simple static visualization which touches your heart is better for it than such elaborate affair? Just a few suggestions from meditation p.o.v only (i don't know any vaishnava dharma), but ultimately you will know what best works for you.

open eyes concentration on a photo may be ok, but also points to the reality of deity as only a photo and mind may not derive much pleasure from it. May be you have tried looking at the photo and then closing eyes to internalize the same? This can be done alternatively with looking at the photo when internal vision is getting diluted. Might work out better.

Jainarayan
17 February 2012, 09:09 AM
I see, so it's an upward spiral of improvement...building blocks.

Sahasranama
18 February 2012, 04:02 AM
You can try a mantra that is more rythmic. You don't have to do japa of a formal mantra, instead you can do a hybrid of kirtana and japa. This is a better method for most people. This mantra is great for this purpose.

राम राघव राम राघव राम राघव रक्ष माम
rAma rAghava rAma rAghava rAma rAghava rakSha mAm.

कृष्ण केशव कृष्ण केशव कृष्ण केशव पाहि माम
kR^iShNa keshava kR^iShNa keshava kR^iShNa keshava pAhi mAm..

When doing dhyana it is better to use descriptions from shastras to visualise. Look at chapter 99 of the patala khanda in the padma purana. Here there are 22 dhyana shlokas for Krishna you can use before doing japa or archana.

Jainarayan
18 February 2012, 01:46 PM
Fantastic, thanks. This is good to know. I did read somewhere that it's OK for a non-initiate to simply chant the Lord's name(s). The idea is to keep Him fixed in mind.

Now, is each line a recitation on one bead, using a mālā alternating them, or are both lines a complete recitation on one bead?

Sahasranama
18 February 2012, 01:54 PM
Fantastic, thanks. This is good to know. I did read somewhere that it's OK for a non-initiate to simply chant the Lord's name(s). The idea is to keep Him fixed in mind.That is right, everyone can chant the names. You can read in the Vishnu Purana how Vyasa elevates women and shudras, because they don't have any obligatory nitya karmas (like Sandhyavandana/ agnihotra) to perform and can simply start chanting the names of Vishnu.


Now, is each line a recitation on one bead, using a mālā alternating them, or are both lines a complete recitation on one bead?Mantras are never alternated between beads. Every bead is a repetition of the last one, so chant the two lines on each bead. If doing this 108 times is too much, you can also buy a shorter mala with less beads.

Jainarayan
18 February 2012, 02:15 PM
That is right, everyone can chant the names. You can read in the Vishnu Purana how Vyasa elevates women and shudras, because they don't have any obligatory nitya karmas (like Sandhyavandana) to perform and can simply start chanting the names of Vishnu.

Mantras are never alternated between beads. Every bead is a repetition of the last one, so chant the two lines on each bead. If doing this 108 times is too much, you can also buy a shorter mala with less beads.

OK, I gotcha... it's one complete mantra, like the Maha Mantra, which I did once the 108 times. Now that took concentration and kept my mind from wandering.

I think I understand now why a guru gives an initiate a mantra that is specific for that initiate.

Sahasranama
18 February 2012, 02:23 PM
OK, I gotcha... it's one complete mantra, like the Maha Mantra, which I did once the 108 times. Now that took concentration and kept my mind from wandering.

I think I understand now why a guru gives an initiate a mantra that is specific for that initiate.

A guru is also restricted in initiating a disciple in a mantra he is initiated in himself. Generally, when people get initiated into a lineage they recieve the same mantra as everyone else. Some lineages have different mantras for more advanced practicioners, but that is generally based on the secrecy of the mantras, not on how long they are. Also, all dvijas during upanayana get initiated in the same mantra (gayatri), although some hold the view that kshatriyas and vaishyas have their own mantra which are even longer than the savitri gayatri. The traditional attitude after initiation is more like "just do the japa and suck it up" and is not accomondating to people's preferences. But doing kirtana or using informal mantras/shlokas for japa or recitation is a different story and allows for more personal freedom.

Jainarayan
18 February 2012, 02:40 PM
A guru is also restricted in initiating a disciple in a mantra he is initiated in himself. Generally, when people get initiated into a lineage they recieve the same mantra as everyone else. Some lineages have different mantras for more advanced practicioners, but that is generally based on the secrecy of the mantras, not on how long they are. Also, all dvijas during upanayana get initiated in the same mantra (gayatri), although some hold the view that kshatriyas and vaishyas have their own mantra which are even longer than the savitri gayatri. The traditional attitude after initiation is more like "just do the japa and suck it up" and is not accomondating to people's preferences. But doing kirtana or using informal mantras/shlokas for japa is a different story.

I'm learning something new everyday! Thanks. :)

Jainarayan
22 February 2012, 09:22 AM
Namaste.

I thought I would share what I believe was the problem in thinking Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya is not "my" mantra. It turns out that it is a combination of rhythm, breathing and disciplined concentration. I'll tell you why...

Sunday afternoon I was prompted, admittedly by anger at something, to go out for a long, fast-paced walk. I have not done this in several years. During this trip, which was 3 miles in about an hour, I broke into a run. Something else I have not done in a good 5 years (I used to be a runner).

I was breathing rhythmically...how can you not when walking 3 mph and running 10-12 mph? (I'm a slow runner). I found myself absorbed in each moment thinking of nothing, that is, my mind cleared, and mentally chanting Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya in a very rhythmic and peaceful manner. It just popped into my head. I had that feeling that I believe Yajvan once described as being like a jar with the air is inside, but the jar in in the air. I told of this sort of feeling once before... the belonging, and connection of all things. I returned home much calmer and peaceful. Endorphins? OK, if one wants to think so.

Moreover, during my prayers on Monday night for ShivarAtri, I did japa with Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya. I was getting a feeling of warmth washing over me, like a warm ocean wave. And no, I was not sitting by a heating vent! :D I had to reign in my thoughts and re-direct them back to my japa a few times, but it comes down to discipline, discipline, discipline.

Adhvagat
23 February 2012, 05:03 AM
The maha mantra is very rhythmic, pleasurable and deep. Go for it.

Jainarayan
23 February 2012, 09:18 AM
I chant or recite the Maha Mantra and the Rama nama mantra on a daily basis, often several times a day. Because I listen to a collection of bhajans and kirtans as I'm driving, I often find that one will pop into my head at any time during the day, even at my desk at work. I will begin mentally chanting or singing it for a while, sometimes stopping what I'm doing, clearing my mind and reciting. I've been doing that with the version of Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya I found that resonates with me, as I mentioned in my last post. I find myself mentally reciting it quite often, as I do with others that call on God's names. Maybe I've been too fixated on believing that using a mālā is the only proper way to do nama japa. I read this article on japa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japa), and realized how wrong I've been.

Purana
07 May 2012, 09:55 PM
Sorry if I posted my question at the wrong thread. I've been searching for japa mantras on the net and I noticed something.

Om Gam Ganapataye Namah and also some of the Ganesh Siddhi mantras with all ending with 'Namah'. I assume that when reciting, one should say it as 'Na-ma-haa' not as 'Na-ma'? :confused:

MahaHrada
08 May 2012, 04:27 PM
Sorry if I posted my question at the wrong thread. I've been searching for japa mantras on the net and I noticed something.

Om Gam Ganapataye Namah and also some of the Ganesh Siddhi mantras with all ending with 'Namah'. I assume that when reciting, one should say it as 'Na-ma-haa' not as 'Na-ma'? :confused:

Yes and No, namah ends with Visarga (H) so it is correct to add the vowel that precedes the visarga, nam-aha- but not prolonged like you wrote (aa) but shortened only half the time than the preceding short (a) which has a duration of 1 matra, the added (a) at the end of namah(a) has only a duration of 1/2 matra.

SriGauranga
08 May 2012, 05:58 PM
Hare Krishna. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
There's a quick solution to you problem, prabhu ji. In this Kali Yuga Lord Chaitanya advised us to chant the Hare Krishna Maha Mantra. He told us that the chanting of Hare Krishna Maha Mantra will give us ultimate love(prema) for Krishna and self-realization. I will present what srciptures tell us about Hare Krishna Maha Mantra(not my work):
Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam [12.3.51] it is said:
kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann
asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ
kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya
mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet
“In the Age of Kali there are many faults, for people are subjected to many miserable conditions, yet in this age there is one great benediction: simply by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra one can be freed from all material contamination and thus be elevated to the spiritual world.”
Nārada-pañcarātra:
trayo vedaḥ ṣaḍ-aṅgāni chandāṁsi vividhāḥ surāḥ
sarvaṁ aṣṭākṣarāntaḥsthaṁ yac cānyad api vāṅ-mayam
sarva-vedānta-sārārthah saṁsārārṇava-tāraṇaḥ
“The essence of all Vedic knowledge—comprehending the three kinds of Vedic activity [karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa and upasāna-kāṇḍa], the chandas, or Vedic hymns, and the processes for satisfying the demigods—is included in the eight syllables Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the reality of all Vedānta. The chanting of the Holy Name is the only means to cross the ocean of nescience.”
Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad
hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare
hare rāma hare rāma rāma rāma hare hare
iti ṣoḍaśakaṁ nāmnāṁ kali-kalmaṣa-nāśanam
nātaḥ parataropāyaḥ sarva-vedeṣu dṛśyate
“Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare; Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare—these sixteen names composed of thirty-two syllables are the only means to counteract the evil effects of Kali-yuga. In all the Vedas it is seen that to cross the ocean of nescience there is no alternative to the chanting of the Holy Name.”
Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 12.3.52:
kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ
dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt
“Whatever result was obtained in Satya-yuga by meditating on Viṣṇu, in Tretā-yuga by performing sacrifices, and in Dvāpara-yuga by serving the Lord’s lotus feet can be obtained in Kali-yuga simply by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra.”
Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 12.3.51 it is stated:
kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ
kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet
“My dear King, although Kali-yuga is an ocean of faults, there is still one good quality about this age: Simply by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, one can become free from material bondage and be promoted to the transcendental kingdom.”
Chant the holy names, chant the holy names, chant the holy names. In this age of Kali [the age of quarrel and confusion] without a doubt, there is no other way, there is no other way, there is no other way. (Brihan-naradiya Purana 38.126)
In this age, there is no use in meditation, sacrifice and temple worship. Simply by chanting the holy name of Krishna--Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare--one can achieve perfect self-realization. (Vishnu Purana 6.2.17)
Living beings who are entangled in the complicated meshes of birth and death can be freed immediately by even unconsciously chanting the holy name of Krishna, which is feared by fear personified. (Bhag.1.1.14)
When instructing King Pariksit, the great sage Sri Shukadeva Gosvami said, "O King, constant chanting of the holy name of the Lord after the ways of the great authorities is the doubtless and fearless way of success for all, including those who are free from all material desires, those who are desirous of all material enjoyment, and also those who are self-satisfied by dint of transcendental knowledge. What is the value of a prolonged life, which is wasted, inexperienced by years in this world? Better a moment of full consciousness, because that gives one a start in searching after his supreme interest." (Bhag.2.1.11-13)
Simply by chanting one holy name of Hari, a sinful man can counteract the reactions to more sins than he is able to commit. (Brihad-vishnu Purana)
As when all small animals flee in fear when a lion roars, similarly all one's sinful reactions leave when a person chants the Lord's holy names while in a helpless condition or even if he has no desire to do so. (Garuda Purana)
The path to liberation is guaranteed when a person once chants the holy name of Lord Hari. (Skanda Purana)
In this age of Kali there is no other means, no other means, no other means for self-realization than chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name of Lord Hari. (brhan naradiya purana 3.8.126)
Your eternal servant. Hari Bol!

Purana
08 May 2012, 07:15 PM
Thank you for your reply and sharing. :)