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Kismet
18 February 2012, 04:41 PM
Namaste all,

So I've been doing japa for over a week with this one mantra 'Aum Kreem Kalikaye Namaha' in an attempt to, shall we say, destroy my own ego.

Since I've begun a number of rather inauspicious things have taken place, which I won't go into. However, I wonder if anyone knows more about this mantra who can inform me specifically how and in what way it is beneficial.

Speaking personally, I find that it resonates with me. However, that may be a quick judgment call, so I welcome any and all input.

Thanks. :)

yajvan
18 February 2012, 05:33 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

There is a few things to consider...akṣara samudaya¹ ( अक्षर समुदय ) is one of them. That is, the union of the sound form ( i.e. the mantra) that comes together for individual use. Will it yield results ( siddhi) or not , will it yield ari ( hostile or pāpā) or not ?
You see, not every mantra's vibration is for every person. Just like our body types, some foods are nourshing for one, and not for the other.


So , how does one know ? When the mantra is given by the teacher one can have confidence it will apply; when picking from a book, one will not be sure if it is applicable. I have found this myself in my studies. I also found some mantra's that yield little results years ago can now be used today. So there is a time factor, a maturity factor, etc. to this. This knowledge is called mantraśāstra.


Some say there are 70 million mantra-s; This is called out in the Mālinīvijayottara tantra (1.18). Later the book calls out that Śiva has appointed 35 million mantras for use. Others say each word of the veda is a mantra ( which is true when one understands the word in full) . In any case there are many more mantras available then one individual may make use of.

Within the knowledge of mantra-śastra there is ṣaḍkarma ( some write ṣaṭ-karma) meaning 6 actions or intent (purpose) of mantra-s.
Are there others? Yes, but for this post let me offer the following.

Here are the 6

śānti शान्ति - peace. Mantra-s for general well being, and removing one from the cycle of rebirth.
vaśīkāran or vaśīkāra वशीकार - bringing into control; subjugation; We see the word vaśī + kāra : vaśī or holding others in submission to the will + kāra making , doing , working , a maker ; Some may call this vidheya - to make obedient.
This was called out above . Mantra-s used to captivate another with-or-without their knowing.
stambhanam or stambha स्तम्भ - fixedness , stiffness , rigidity ,paralysis , stupefaction . This is for creating obstructions.
vidveśana विद्वेशन vid + veśana: vid to get or procure for + veśana - that act of entering ; one can consider veśī or piercing. This mantra type creates a split ( or difference ~ dissention) between others ( people, groups, etc).
ucchatanā ucca + tanā : ucca उच्च is high , lofty , elevated , yet also intense , violent + tanā तन uninterrupted succession ; This mantra type is for creating aversion between others ( people, groups, etc.)
marana or mara मर dying , death. From this word you can see this mantra type is death-causing.I support the uplifting approach , śānti. The benefits go to the practitioner and the environment. It brings a life-supporting influence to the family of man. This is how I was taught and I stay with the program.
Some may be using a mantra and not know its influence and this can bring the wrong influence (cause mischief) , even though the intent was well-meant. Others may be using a mantra with no results, it is dead. What do I mean?

Mantra-s need to be enlivened , brought to life and there are multiple 'features' to this which I choose not to lay out. But that said, the value of receiving a mantra from a proper instructor ( teacher, guru, etc.) is of great value; Given by the guru this enlivening process has been accomplished and the mantra is ready for application.

What is needed is the proper application and purascarana (number of repetitions) for siddhi ( sidh = to turn out well i.e. success).
This is the value of teacher-student ( guru-śiṣya ) relationship, as the guru brings the knowledge of the paramparā (tradition, lineage) to use in the proper mantra application.

praṇām


words



akṣara - in this application means syllable or phoneme regarding saṃskṛt sound forms; this word also means imperishableand is another name for śiva or viṣṇu
samudaya - coming together , union , junction , combination , collection , assemblage , multitude , aggregation , aggregate i.e. to collect or assemble

MahaHrada
18 February 2012, 07:00 PM
Namaste all,

So I've been doing japa for over a week with this one mantra 'Aum Kreem Kalikaye Namaha' in an attempt to, shall we say, destroy my own ego.

Since I've begun a number of rather inauspicious things have taken place, which I won't go into. However, I wonder if anyone knows more about this mantra who can inform me specifically how and in what way it is beneficial.

Speaking personally, I find that it resonates with me. However, that may be a quick judgment call, so I welcome any and all input.

Thanks. :)

Namaste
This Mantra should not be used for japa without Guru upadesha, it contains so called bija mantras and it is a mantra of a tantric Mahavidya two reason why in this case Guru guidance is needed. So called Nama mantras (divine names) are best used for bhakti and meditation, here one does not need to comply to special rules and regulations. Nothing is needed except devotion. This is different with the Kali mantra of your choice. To use it you need to conform to Rules.

The topic of tantric shatkarmas or 6 magical acts of sorcery is a completly different subject that does not apply at all in your situation

The so called shatkarmas that means 6 Mantra application that are mentionend in Yajvans post apply only to so called tantric kamya prayogas, that means Mantras and ritual procedures for a specific purpose that can be lawfully used only in uneasy times by select tantric specialists to control misfortunes, and pacify enemies. These 6 acts, the shatkarmas, are not at all related to mantras used in a bhakti path or used for spiritual or uplifting purposes.

Practise of any of the shatkarmas including "shanti" is restricted to very few experienced people and should be only done in times of dire need, political unrest, wars, famine, sickness or other severe misfortune, and one must attend to strict rules and regulations. Many do not use wise judgement like this. Therefore when one is confronted with the word "shatkarma" what is usually meant is witchcraft or black magic (abhichara) and not the legitimate use. It is a mystery to me why Yajvan is associating "shatkarma" with the spiritual path or the "shanti" shatkarma with Mantras used in sadhana, while "shanti" really denotes Mantras used for pacifying evil influences and remedy sicknesses or generally those for attracting good fortune.

Kismet
19 February 2012, 12:37 AM
Namaste
This Mantra should not be used for japa without Guru upadesha, it contains so called bija mantras and it is a mantra of a tantric Mahavidya two reason why in this case Guru guidance is needed. So called Nama mantras (divine names) are best used for bhakti and meditation, here one does not need to comply to special rules and regulations. Nothing is needed except devotion. This is different with the Kali mantra of your choice. To use it you need to conform to Rules.

The topic of tantric shatkarmas or 6 magical acts of sorcery is a completly different subject that does not apply at all in your situation

The so called shatkarmas that means 6 Mantra application that are mentionend in Yajvans post apply only to so called tantric kamya prayogas, that means Mantras and ritual procedures for a specific purpose that can be lawfully used only in uneasy times by select tantric specialists to control misfortunes, and pacify enemies. These 6 acts, the shatkarmas, are not at all related to mantras used in a bhakti path or used for spiritual or uplifting purposes.

Practise of any of the shatkarmas including "shanti" is restricted to very few experienced people and should be only done in times of dire need, political unrest, wars, famine, sickness or other severe misfortune, and one must attend to strict rules and regulations. Many do not use wise judgement like this. Therefore when one is confronted with the word "shatkarma" what is usually meant is witchcraft or black magic (abhichara) and not the legitimate use. It is a mystery to me why Yajvan is associating "shatkarma" with the spiritual path or the "shanti" shatkarma with Mantras used in sadhana, while "shanti" really denotes Mantras used for pacifying evil influences and remedy sicknesses or generally those for attracting good fortune.

Fair enough. I am curious though, if you know any more writings about these "shatkarmas." Legitimate sources, of course. It is interesting you speak of ill fortune and desperate times, I am myself experiencing some difficulties in various areas of my life.

Could you recommend an appropriate Kali mantra for myself? I do not have much qualification, but in a way I feel the bhakti path has waned for me. It will be reawakened in time, I'm sure. But I just don't know exactly what path to turn to, at the moment.

Sahasranama
19 February 2012, 02:30 AM
Mahahrada, can you give some more information on how bhakti sadhana is performed by the uninitiated in Shakta marga? What kind of symbols can be kept? I have heard that the Shri Meru is prohibited to keep for the uninitiated. In another post you recommended someone to do panchopachara puja. The mantras for this also have single syllable mantras in them: vaM apaathmanaa jalam kalpayaami, laM prithivyaathmanaa gandham kalpayaami etc. Are the single syllables in these mantras different from the beejaksharas that are prohibited for laypeople?

You are absolutely right that the shatkarmas are not to be messed with, there are many unqualified people who abuse these methods for their personal gain. Many books get published with mantras from the Indrajala and other sources of black magic. It is really irresponsible how these books are sold on the market to every Jane and Joe. They even put these mantras in the yearly panchangas and other astrological publications.

MahaHrada
19 February 2012, 06:05 AM
Fair enough. I am curious though, if you know any more writings about these "shatkarmas." Legitimate sources, of course. It is interesting you speak of ill fortune and desperate times, I am myself experiencing some difficulties in various areas of my life.

Like i wrote, i do not understand why Yajvan recommends to use mantras for sorcery (shatkarmas), only very few specialists can use these mantras safely and for the benefit of society and because there is so much Misuse in my opinion Shatkarmas are not a good topic for Hindu Dharma Forum or study.


Could you recommend an appropriate Kali mantra for myself? I do not have much qualification, but in a way I feel the bhakti path has waned for me. It will be reawakened in time, I'm sure. But I just don't know exactly what path to turn to, at the moment.

I would generally recommend so called Nama Mantras, for those that do not have a Guru, these are Mantras that do not contain Bijas or the Pranava but Jaya, or Namo and Namah, like for instance Sri Rama Jaya Rama Jaya Jaya Rama or Sri Ramaya namah.

There are also collection of Names of Kali you can use like her 100 names or 1000 names.

But maybe even more important in the case of Kali is the correct bhava that is that you should consider her as a loving and protective mother only. To look at her in other aspects including a destructiveform as i assume you did judging from what you wrote " shall we say, destroy my own ego. " is not without risk so you better stick to benevolent aspects like dakshinkali, or better yet focus on Durga.

sm78
19 February 2012, 06:24 AM
destroy my own ego.

If you think you can set out to destroy your own ego, the problem is right there. Bija mantras without upadesha etc are also factors. If you prefer atma-prataya, self effort to achieve something, tantra-mantra is not the path for you.

Ignore satkarma suggestions. It is quite dangerous for innocent readers of this forum who take these empty talks seriously.

MahaHrada
19 February 2012, 07:35 AM
Mahahrada, can you give some more information on how bhakti sadhana is performed by the uninitiated in Shakta marga? What kind of symbols can be kept? I have heard that the Shri Meru is prohibited to keep for the uninitiated. In another post you recommended someone to do panchopachara puja. The mantras for this also have single syllable mantras in them: vaM apaathmanaa jalam kalpayaami, laM prithivyaathmanaa gandham kalpayaami etc. Are the single syllables in these mantras different from the beejaksharas that are prohibited for laypeople?

You are absolutely right that the shatkarmas are not to be messed with, there are many unqualified people who abuse these methods for their personal gain. Many books get published with mantras from the Indrajala and other sources of black magic. It is really irresponsible how these books are sold on the market to every Jane and Joe. They even put these mantras in the yearly panchangas and other astrological publications.

Namaste Sahasranama

Generally the Shakta path is non dualistic and therefore it is less likely that a serious shakta would conceive of shakti as different from his own self. Nonetheless it is true that a lot of people choose different aspects of shakti as a focus for bhakti and some have become quite famous like Ramakrishnas and his bhakti for Kali. Of course if people choose that path without a Guru, they can use nama mantras and bhajans.

But since you ask me of my personal opinion there is something special about shakti that we should think about in the context of bhakti.

If we think for one moment about what it means that the sanskrit word "shakti" means translated into english "power" it becomes clear that every bhakta will always worship not only his choosen devata but his shaktis also.

Shakti can never be separeted from Shiva like the sun cannot be understood separetly from his powers or shaktis light and heat. While the source remains one the effects or powers can be many. Even a stick you cut from a tree is a limited "shiva" and can have many "shaktis" or powers, you can hit someone with this stick or you can use it to support yourself while walking, you could also use it to kick a ball around, all these are the shaktis, the powers of this stick.

On a larger scale also Krishna or Vishnu or Shiva and any other deity will always be worshipped through his attributes and the effects they have, also in general, their glory, their divine aisvarya does only become manifest as a shakti, a power, which means every bhakta will worship the different shaktis or powers of their choosen deity anyways, sometimes without ever noticing it.

Now what happens if one does develops bhakti to shakti as existing separete from his own self as well as separete from an individual devata, a holder of power?

Lets get back to the example of the stick used either as a prop or as a protective weapon or a tool, being devoted to the shakti of the stick, without noticing the stick, you get support for walking or a beating, or you are kicked around. If you don´t know there is this stick and only feel the impact of its powers, its shaktis one after the other you don´t understand why you first get support and then you get hit and after that you get kicked around by this shakti.

Many shakti bhaktas are confused about that and think that this unpredictabilty is some kind of hidden blessing. Ramprasad wrote:
It matters not how much I call you "Mother, Mother." You hear me, but you will not listen.

As a serious shakta tantric you will be an advaitan not a dualist bhakta, you will see shakti either as your mind, your body (including the subtle bodies) or on the lowest level of qualification as the whole universe and its objects. The first and the second options are of course always non dual, the third option is also non dual for most of the shaktas since they would look at the whole universe as non different from the self, and everything whatever appears in their mind or exists as the outside, as being nothing but aspects of power or shakti and the sakshi, the witness of this universe not separeted from it, is understood as Shiva.

Those others that do not qualify for the beginning level of tantric shakti sadhana, because they look at the shakti as a single entity, different from their own self, as well as from any other devata, as bhaktas usually do, without qualification for the non dual approach of the tantras, must of course take care to primarily focus their bhakti on the saumyam, the supportive and benevolent aspects of Shakti, like Lakshmi or Sarasvati or Durga since everything that exists is shakti, there are also some things in this universe one does not want to approach too close, fire has a power to make you feel warm but it can also kill, so one has to choose well and avoid the ugra devatas, the fierce and destructive aspects.

So the general difference is, if you have bhakti to the shaktiman the holder of power, like for instance sri krishna you will be always blessed by him through his shaktis, you leave the discrimination of choice to the holder of power, with shakti bhakti you have to exert discrimination yourself, and avoid harmful fierce aspects and of course also most mantras, she herself does not differentiate for you, she is the whole universe.

In my opinon for these reasons, shakti bhakti is more complicated than those of other devata, everybody can easily and safely worship the shakti-the power, of the attributes of their choosen deity and the shakta marga is more safe and useful for people who prefer a non dual attitude.

Concerning the panchupachara puja i recommended, the main thing is not to be using any mantras when offering the upacharas, but the contemplation of the unity of this act of offering with the shakti, and your own self, this contemplation should lead to the understanding that the physical substances one offers to the deity are nothing but her own self, the delight of the contact of the self with their objects, through the five senses is also nothing but a sacrifice. If one understands that the self, the objects of the senses (the universe) and the activity of the sense organs are nothing but the shakti alone and she is your own self, by that puja alone you can reach the same experience, that the shakti mantra, one would receive in a diksha, is supposed to lead you to. A great problem is the lack of teachers nowadays it is hardly possible to find qualified Gurus for this path.

MahaHrada
19 February 2012, 09:09 AM
I have heard that the Shri Meru is prohibited to keep for the uninitiated. Are the single syllables in these mantras different from the beejaksharas that are prohibited for laypeople?

I forget to answer this part because i do not consider outward objects or mantras as central to kaula dharma, these instruments are extensively used by people that have problems with the non dual approach and have to use physical props as a focus for meditation. So this is secondary. I would not say that anything is prohibited to laypeople it is only not very useful if one has no Guru to constantly remind one that Yantras are mere symbols of a higher reality and Mantras are mere instruments to help focus on the prana shakti or become aware of the unstruck Sound. If i do not recommend Mantra japa without Guru Upadesha it is because these methods will not work properly without the method of contemplation that comes with the mantra and without the shaktipat a Mantra will have no sufficient Power. No kaula Method will work without shaktipat, or transfer of power whether Meditations taken from books, like the well known Vijnanabhairavatantra, or Mudras, Kriyas, Yantras or Mantras or even study of the shastras, all these methods need transfer of power, and this shaktipat rarely happens without a Guru parampara. There is nothing that can be done about this i guess, even if it is inconvinient.

sm78
19 February 2012, 10:06 AM
I have heard that the Shri Meru is prohibited to keep for the uninitiated.

I have heard this, and there may be some support in books (meru is a later concept anyway - tantras only talked about yantras), but I don't believe it. Tantras do speak about creating kavacas for those who desire for various worldly ends which are basically often inscribed yantras. So a meru prepared properly can have some good effect or no effect, but I don't see the logical connection with initiation. Initiation is needed for japa, puja etc. I agree with Mahahrada that in actual kaula dharma yantras, merus etc are of secondary importance if any. One does need to bring out the entire universe inform of deity mandala outside and do puja to it - but one can use any prop for that - there are suggestions to do the puja on murtis, hand drawn yantras, shiva linga or simply over water, mirrors, ayudhas like khadga etc etc.

MahaHrada
19 February 2012, 11:08 AM
I have heard that the Shri Meru is prohibited to keep for the uninitiated.


I have heard this, and there may be some support in books (meru is a later concept anyway - tantras only talked about yantras), but I don't believe it.

It is not that it is prohibited for the uninitiated to use or see Yantras, in my opinion it is the other way around the iniitiated are prohibited to display a diksha -yantra-mandala to outsiders, because a diksha often includes shaktipath by the darshan of the mandala or yantra, and this diksha marks a change from Pravritti to Nivrittimarga, from the outside focus to the inside, from the human body to the divine body. So the first look on the yantra is an important step. This itself has redeeming qualities and is part of the transformation that enables one to profit from these methods. So because looking at the yantra is part of the diksha only a Guru can show you a yantra and transfer shakti by that act, a disciple is not qualified to give diksha, (which includes showing a yantra) only an acharya or Guru should do this. This is also true for Mantras if a qualified Guru writes down a mantra and shows it or says it loud, this can be a diksha, he can do that, other disciples not, if they do it instead their own tapas shakti probably will disperse and is gone. No help done for anyone, everybody looses in the process, thats why these methods are kept secret.

All these rules do not apply to outsiders they can print show or paint yantras, these are simply lines on paper, because rarely a transfer of shakti occurs outside of the parampara

yajvan
19 February 2012, 12:25 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

Sometimes one forgets the meaning of mantra... it is man+tra.

man = mad which means to stand still
mad is rooted in mand and this is to gladden, to shine, be splendid.
tra = protecting
trai = protect, preserve, defend.Hence when we deal with the science of mantra it is that which gladdens, protects, makes splended or makes one brillant or shining.

We can see the possibilities when different phonemes (akṣara samudaya) are assembled; the possibilities are:

protecting
preserving
shining
gladden
make to stand still
defendAll these things are possible within a person and within the environment.


praṇām

sm78
19 February 2012, 12:54 PM
man
Monier Williams

to think , believe , imagine , suppose , conjecture (मन्ये , I think , methinks , is in later language often inserted in a sentence without affecting the construction ; cf. g. चा*दि and Pa1n2. 4-1 , 106) ;

to regard or consider any one or anything (acc.) as (acc. with or without इव , or adv. , often in -वत् ; in later language also dat. , to express contempt [cf. Pa1n2. 2-3 , 17] , e.g. g. राज्यं तृणय मन्ये , " I value empire at a straw " i.e. I make light of it = लघु √ मन् , and opp. to बहु , or साधु √ मन् , to think much or well of , praise , approve) ib. ;

to think one's self or be thought to be , appear as , pass for (nom. ; also with इव) ib. ;

to be of opinion , think fit or right MBh. Ka1v. &c ;

to agree or be of the same opinion with (acc.) MBh. ;

to set the heart or mind on , honour , esteem (with नौ , disdain) , hope or wish for (acc. or gen.) RV. &c ;

to think of (in prayer &c , either " to remember , meditate on " , or " mention , declare " , or " excogitate , invent ") RV. AV. ;

to perceive , observe , learn , know , understand , comprehend (acc. , Ved. also gen.)

mad-to enjoy bliss etc.

They are different roots. Mantra shares the same root as manas or mind/thought. Generally a guru explains mantra as that which protects(liberates) the mind - manasam trayate. It means a sacred hynm in normal dictionary.

The word mantra is of vedic origin, and there is no mention of satkarmas in vedas nor there is any association of mantra intrinsically with satkarmas, since mantra has been in use and written about much much before satkarma was ever heard of.

There is no mention of application of shatkarma "inside" the person, please let us know if there is a concept like that and where. Mantra sadhana is completely related to the stages of its illumination from para to audible as also the underlying shakti of a mantra. nada and shakti are two ways of using a mantra. mantra sadhana is very advaitic in nature and concept of application/doing(karma) is not meaningful in mantra japa.

MahaHrada
19 February 2012, 01:11 PM
Generally a guru explains mantra as that which liberates the mind - manasam trayate. It means a sacred hynm in normal dictionary.


Yes agreed, that is the etymology used in the tantras. Mantras should be understood as liberating, otherwise they are without power in Sadhana. Mantras used in shatkarmas are not liberating they are binding, these Mantras are related to ghora (terrible) shaktis not aghora (non terrifying). Therefore generally shatkarma mantras and procedures bind and lead deeper into samsara.

It is said in the srikantheyasamhita:
Mantras without the first letter and the last are barren like the autuum clouds, know that conciousness of the first and last letter is the characteristics of the master.

The first and last letter here mean the first letter of the sanskrit alphabet "a" and the last letter "ha" together this spells A ha m the divine I conciousness. This is the heart of the Mantra which makes it alive. Devoid of the divine I conciousness Mantras are without virya or energy, they lack liberating or redeeming power.

yajvan
19 February 2012, 02:54 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


man
Monier Williams

to think , believe , imagine , suppose , conjecture (मन्ये , I think , methinks , is in later language often inserted in a sentence without affecting the construction ; cf. g. चा*दि and Pa1n2. 4-1 , 106) ;

to regard or consider any one or anything (acc.) as (acc. with or without इव , or adv. , often in -वत् ; in later language also dat. , to express contempt [cf. Pa1n2. 2-3 , 17] , e.g. g. राज्यं तृणय मन्ये , " I value empire at a straw " i.e. I make light of it = लघु √ मन् , and opp. to बहु , or साधु √ मन् , to think much or well of , praise , approve) ib. ;

to think one's self or be thought to be , appear as , pass for (nom. ; also with इव) ib. ;

to be of opinion , think fit or right MBh. Ka1v. &c ;

to agree or be of the same opinion with (acc.) MBh. ;

to set the heart or mind on , honour , esteem (with नौ , disdain) , hope or wish for (acc. or gen.) RV. &c ;

to think of (in prayer &c , either " to remember , meditate on " , or " mention , declare " , or " excogitate , invent ") RV. AV. ;

to perceive , observe , learn , know , understand , comprehend (acc. , Ved. also gen.)

mad-to enjoy bliss etc.

They are different roots. Mantra shares the same root as manas or mind/thought. Generally a guru explains mantra as that which protects(liberates) the mind - manasam trayate. It means a sacred hynm in normal dictionary.

The word mantra is of vedic origin, and there is no mention of satkarmas in vedas nor there is any association of mantra intrinsically with satkarmas, since mantra has been in use and written about much much before satkarma was ever heard of.

Please don't invent stuff with psuedo punditry and mislead people. There is no mention of application of shatkarma "inside" the person, please let us know if there is a concept like that and where. Mantra sadhana is completely related to the stages of its illumination from para to audible as also the underlying shakti of a mantra. nada and shakti are two ways of using a mantra. mantra sadhana is very advaitic in nature and concept of application/doing(karma) is not meaningful in mantra japa.

First let me offer one idea:

'man' as you offer brings one to manas intellect , intelligence , understanding , perception , sense , conscience , will.
This too applies to man-tra and many will extend man to manas. You have offered the definition well in your post, thank you.you mention


manasam trayate. It means a sacred hynm in normal dictionary

Yes I agree and is alluded to in my first post , number 2 above...
"Others say each word of the veda is a mantra ( which is true when one understands the word in full) ."

You mention
The word mantra is of vedic origin, and there is no mention of satkarmas
Fine, as this has not been my offering and I do not see the connection. This ṣaḍkarma was offered to compare and contrast knowledge. To the best of my recollection I did not connect a force-feeding tube to anyone and ask them to swallow without digesting the idea at hand.
Also, Please do not interpret this response as a request for more information, as I am fine with the knowledge at hand.

You mention


Please don't invent stuff with psuedo punditry and mislead people. There is no mention of application of shatkarma "inside" the person, please let us know if there is a concept like that and where. Mantra sadhana is completely related to the stages of its illumination from para to audible as also the underlying shakti of a mantra.
You say there is no mention of ṣaḍkarma inside a person. I am not certain which knowledge you wish to refer to. All things have an external and internal component - whether you wish it to be so or not, I will leave that with you.

You ask me not to 'invent stuff' - There is no invention on my part, just observation, offers and passing on what I know. Yet, thank you for the reminder that my studies need to continue - I am not complete as yet.

Last, for some reason some parts of the last few posts may have irrated some in a small or large way. This knowlege that was offered was to be simple, insightful - for those new to this knowledge. If we wish to go indepth, akṣara-by-akṣara , then it would be best to do that in the uttara folder. Part of the offer is from jyotish, the core of picking the correct sounds; other parts are from mantraśāstra, mālinīvijayottara tantra, and the like.

If one is looking for jalpa¹ with one named yajvan, I do not plan on engaging; others may be more suited for this then me.

If there are any posts that perhaps irritate you in any manner, please feel free to put me on your ignore list, I am fine with it.

praṇām

1. jalpa - a kind of disputation i.e. overbearing reply and disputed rejoinder

sm78
19 February 2012, 11:39 PM
It is a basic question and not about person's ego's and achievements or being sentimental.

I have removed that one line that I also regard as jalpa on my part.

shian
20 February 2012, 02:36 AM
If we diligently and virya practice Shanti Mantra,

all of karman, like : Vasikaran (harmonization), Paustika (increase wealth and wisdom), Abhicaruka (subjugate our self, subjugate enemies)

will be sampurna (perfect )automaticlly.

will get automaticlly.

MahaHrada
20 February 2012, 10:34 AM
They even put these mantras in the yearly panchangas and other astrological publications.


Part of the offer is from jyotish


Proffessional astrologers and the "remedies" they offer are the main reason people use mantras for worldly gain, dominion, attraction of woman, destruction of enemies, and other selfish purposes.

It is these people that classify upasana mantras or mantras used in bhakti yoga that is nishkamya Mantras, as if these are also being only part of the shatkarmas. The bad name of tantra as sorcery is partly due to the liberal use of mantra shastra or shatkarmas and the worldly understanding of the subject by those people who serve others and help to fulfill their desires or remedy their sufferings by means of mantras and spells, because they decided to earn their living by being "tantrics" or astrologers.

A bhakta or upasaka should differentiate between Mantras for worldly purposes that are directed against a victim, whose name is most often included in the mantra, or written in diagramms, on dolls etc. or which involves the use of amuletts, kavachas and diverse herbs and substances and are for the purpose of worldly gains or to inflict distress or offer protection (kamya Mantras and astra Mantra) and Mantras used out of devotion or as a part of Upasana. (para mantras).

Only para Mantras are liberating, the others will inevitably bind and drag one further into bondage, so they should only be used to prevent even worse things to happen.Not all kamya mantras are sorcery but tantras that are about the subject like indrajala, kamaratna, yantrachintamani, kalpachintamani, damoddara always contain many mantras that can be used only for evil purposes. So it is most of the time not a good advice to become involved in shatkarmas.

I don´t think that Yajvan is aware of the widespread misuse of mantra shastra and Jyotisha in India, otherwise he would have not included a reference to shatkarmas in his posting.

devotee
21 February 2012, 11:11 PM
Namaste Kismet,



So I've been doing japa for over a week with this one mantra 'Aum Kreem Kalikaye Namaha' in an attempt to, shall we say, destroy my own ego.

Since I've begun a number of rather inauspicious things have taken place, which I won't go into. However, I wonder if anyone knows more about this mantra who can inform me specifically how and in what way it is beneficial.

Speaking personally, I find that it resonates with me. However, that may be a quick judgment call, so I welcome any and all input.


You were inclined towards Lord Vishnu. How suddenly you turned towards Mother Goddess KAli ?

You have to be a little careful while using Mantras ... especially the Beej Mantras. This particular mantrA is a beej mantrA due to use of the BeejAkshar "Kreem". Moreover, whenever you are invoking forms of Gods/Goddesses who are Ugra-roopa (of violent nature) ... like Mother Goddess KAli, DurgA, Bhairava etc. ... you have to do it according to the prescribed rituals so as not to invite their anger if you do anything in a wrong way.

Why don't you stick to your chosen deity e.g. Lord Vishnu/Krishna which you can do without any guidance or a Guru ?

OM

Kismet
22 February 2012, 10:29 AM
Why don't you stick to your chosen deity e.g. Lord Vishnu/Krishna which you can do without any guidance or a Guru ?

OM

Well, to be honest, I do not know if I am qualified for that form of worship. Do asuras worship Lord Vishnu? I feel that, unless I can better my nature, I do not have the right to worship the deity I see as most high.

I might have it opposite, though, as many of these comments here indicate.

sm78
22 February 2012, 11:03 AM
I might have it opposite, though, as many of these comments here indicate.

Yes indeed. Plus vaishnavas don't believe that other deities can grant moksha or vaikuntha, only vishnu does. So in vaishnava practice, there is no point in worshiping other deities except out of respect and for worldly gains.

If you are not a vaishnava but generally have a liking for the vishnu form, then shakti worship is bit of a jump.

Devotee's suggestion is per haves the best, but it is up to you to judge.

As I said I don't understand your goal of "destroy my ego", as ego is not a tangible material entity which you can destroy. Logically, if now your ego is destroyed you will be destroyed too. But in actuality such goals can itself be good cause of developing deep ego mania and psychosis. I have even seen shakti sadhaks who are constantly talking about ego, their own and other's, and as a consequent cannot think beyond their limited identification - to an extent that I believe they are medically psychotic. What else can happen with extreme fascination with an intangible, imaginary concept like ego?

There is no ego in reality - only false identification of self on non-self, which is removed by awakening of wisdom/prajna as per vedanta and anugraha or divine grace as per tantra. You do sadhana to understand this false identification to understand the true self. That is what you should do if you want to "destroy your ego", like the rest. But if you treat ego as a tangible entity inside you, I think the effort is doomed. My opinion only of course.

Jainarayan
22 February 2012, 12:04 PM
Yes indeed. Plus vaishnavas don't believe that other deities can grant moksha or vaikuntha, only vishnu does. So in vaishnava practice, there is no point in worshiping other deities except out of respect and for worldly gains.

Indeed. I offer stotras to Lord Shiva, Maa Parvati, Sri Hanuman, Maa Saraswati and Lord Ganesha, but those are indeed only for respect (mostly) and some worldly gains, I admit... Maa Saraswati to help me with my music; Sri Hanuman to help me with my physical activities; Sri Ganesha for a smooth undertaking of any kind.

People pray to Mahalakshmi for material wealth, but I think that's wrong. Oh sure, I've asked Her to help me through a rough spot, and She has. She is the internal energy of Lord Vishnu and equal to Lord Vishnu, as one prayer says.

But the desire and request for moksha, and my meditation goes only to Lord Vishnu.

"Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kunti, but they do so in a wrong way." Bhagavad Gita 9.23

"Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship the ancestors go to the ancestors; those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; and those who worship Me will live with Me." 9.25

".... those who, renouncing all actions in Me, and regarding Me as the Supreme, worship Me... of those whose thoughts have entered into Me, I am soon the deliverer from the ocean of death and transmigration, Arjuna. Keep your mind on Me alone, your intellect on Me. Thus you shall dwell in Me hereafter." 12.6-8

Just some more of my rambling and wandering thoughts. :)

danilorogs
01 March 2013, 02:50 PM
Thank you !!!

ShivaFan
02 March 2013, 12:01 PM
Namaste

An example of total detachment is in the life of the master Trailinga Swami the "Walking Shiva of Varanasi". His life is so famous, without any attachment and in total renouncement of all material gain and possession. He was totally in One with the Truth, yet also a devotee of Kali Mother.
He not only attained Moksha, he was Moksha while living, of which he lived from 1607 until 1887, over 200 years.

Trailinga Swami spent his last years in silence next to Kali and Shiva deities carved from stone with his own hands.

He sat at his altar writing Sanskrit shlokas and giving advice to others.
When Saints visited him, he often spoke in his own version of sign language.

Famous Bengali Saint, Ramakrishna, visited Trailinga Swami and said that although he had taken a body, Trailinga Swami was as Lord Shiva, the embodiment of Wisdom.

To be honest, this holy mystic was not much for mantras. And yes, there are mantras which are only given by the Guru to you, especially for you since you came upon the Guru with grace and what He teaches you is a tradition that is authorized and you became that Path.

Yes there are mantras which effect differently for different souls.
There are some which, for others who are not ready, are for mystics and siddhas who indeed do attain moksha. They would not be a way for a soul in different circumstances.

There are humans who try to belittle a Devas or Devi as a lesser, unable to give moksha. I will tell you, what I have been told is moksha is a gift and also a path to it and you will endevour for it.

Perhaps a given mantra to Kali Maa is not for another. And if you already have a mantra given by a Guru, that is your mantra of your focus.

Please be respectful to those who do not belong to your Sampradaya in how you try to glorify your own. Tell us about the glories of your Lord, tell me how one can be taken into Moksha by your Lord. But do not tell me that another cannot be taken into Moksha by another Lord, when they were Moksha itself. If you go to Varanasi, where this Saint was there, you will find many saying chants to Kali in His honor. But he sought no honor, ever. Nor, in fact, was He much on such worship. But he saw Kali Mother with His own eyes. And those who give a mantra and bhajan to the Mother, remembering Him, I will tell you Moksha awaits them if not already the seed is in the heart that soon will be the banyan tree.

Om Namah Sivaya

hanumanrij
05 March 2013, 08:03 PM
namaste

I hope this isn't too far off topic but it concerns this "dangerous" aspect that has been discussed.

First, clearly it is contentious to some but I believe words are powerful and one must know the root meanings to them before saying them. There are several lexicons available. I rather enjoy this one:
http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/MWScan/tamil/index.html though it may be a bit heavy for some

This is only my opinion, to take or leave. No big deal. I must remember always that Learning Life comes on a learning curve and without a driver's manual. Some are new drivers and need wide berth and some do not.

Use your turn signals.

My question for the forum is this: can the chant "om ham humante rudratmakaya..." be a Nama chant at all? since it doesn't specifically contain the word(s) namah in it? It refers to Shivah of course but it makes me nervous to use it now. It is very powerful and works. (I don't use this lightly I live with a manageable chronic illness, btw, need to destroy disease; perhaps tmi but there you have it...)

I am aware of the difference between the "A" and the "U" in "hAm" and "hAn" and won't even post it, as I feel so strongly about the second point (ibid). I always use the "A", personally. To post here more on this for clarity sake: the U is used to invoke (possibly?) magic ritual or to signal that a cleric is introducing a psalm-of-sorts during a service, am I correct? śukriyā

om namah sivayah

Necromancer
12 March 2013, 01:39 AM
Namaste.

I am interested to know why you chose that particular Mantra in the first place (with or without a teacher).

It all sounds kind of 'Indiana Jones' here. Sometimes, people worship Goddess Kali for strength, fearlessness and other deficits of character which is still all ego-based nonetheless.

I mean, Goddess Kali looks amazing and terrifying, no? Eyes bulging out, tongue lolling, standing on a prostrate Lord Shiva...why worship her when you can worship Durga Mata? Then again, people could ask me why I worship Bhairava and not Lord Shiva (I do anyway).

It all depends on your reasons/motivation for worshiping such a terrible form of the Goddess and using her Mantra.


But maybe even more important in the case of Kali is the correct bhava that is that you should consider her as a loving and protective mother only. To look at her in other aspects including a destructiveform as i assume you did judging from what you wrote " shall we say, destroy my own ego. " is not without risk so you better stick to benevolent aspects like dakshinkali, or better yet focus on Durga.

This...pretty much.

If the intent is pure, it is not dangerous (not advisable without a Guru), but not dangerous.

If the intent is malevolent, or selfish, She will strike you down quicker than you can say...

Aum Namah Shivaya

Ra K Sankar
15 March 2013, 09:57 AM
Namaste

Goddess KaaLi is the Primordial Goddess adored (among the 10) in tantras.
She was never born, but only manifested when She had to manifest.

She is terrible, of course, but She along-with Bhairava
are the "only two" awake in this age of darkness,
as per Aslee Praacheen KaaLee Kitaab by Sandeep Gupta.

Terrible means "terrifying" of course, but the "actual reality" of the cosmos,
of which She is the Ruler, without superimposing any mental ideations.

Worship of Goddess KaaLi, makes one easily accept terrible worldly events
Further, such a worship easily rids one of the sense of guilt from the past.
This enables one to progress swiftly (speedily, as below) on the spiritual path.

When Sri Rama at Gaya (Gadhaadhar) incarnated as Sri Ramakrishna,
He attained Realization of Goddess KaaLi at Dakshineshwar.

Reading the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna invokes
the Grace of the Satguru and Avatar, Sri Ramakrishna,
who can guide one along the path of worshipping Goddess KaaLi.
The "Spiritual Force of Sri Ramakrishna is alive inside the Gospel".

For example, Sri Aurobindo and His Spiritual Consort, the Mother Mirra,
explicitly state that reading with blank mind "Savitri",
the epic scriptural English masterpiece by Sri Aurobindo,
will guide their followers without the need for a spiritual guru.

Goddess Kailua declared Herself to be "the Supreme" to Sri Ramakrishna.
You may find this horripilating experience recounted in online
a) "Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna" (5.70 MB), by Mahendranath Gupta, and
b) "Sri Ramakrishna, the Great Master" (20.7 MB), by Swami Sharadananda.

Again, Goddess KaaLi speedily endows Her devotees with strength
(so says Sri Aurobindo, in His text "The Mother"),
to speedily resolve the past birth intense deed impact.

She drags Her devotees speedily across spiritual path
transforming their ordinary life into a spiritual one.
She takes over Her devotees' lives and that inevitably means
at least 5 years of suffering after Her taking over.

She also gives evidence of Her omnipresence through worldly events.
Just mentally tell Her to give evidence, the signs will become manifest,
the style in which Sri Ramakrishna used to learn from Her.
Of course, He used to behold Her Divine Form in His Vision,
but we may get only signs manifested in external circumstances.

Again, you have experienced the power of the potent mantra.
It must be continued unabated, as that is your experience.

Sri Ramakrishna used to guide different devotees as per their temperament
He guided Swami Vivekananda as per His non-dual mood
and guided Swami Abhedananda as per his dualistic mood.
So, you shall be guided along the lines of worship of the Terrible.

Again, you have been worshipping Bhairava.
You may know that Kaala Bhairava is Dhakshinamurthi,
the primordial Guru who Silently instructed
Brahma's mind-born sons, Sanaka, et al, in Brahman.

Also, worship of (Kaala) Bhairava annihilates fear with speed
while worship of Batuka Bhairava brings in protection slowly.

Aum KaaLi
Ra K Sankar

ShriBala
15 March 2013, 12:12 PM
Namaskara Shankar ji! Your reply is very interesting to me as, not only do i think Mother Kaalikaa is my ishta roopam but also, the circumstances you had quoted as a pre-condition for the ishta roopam to be known, in the thread about "how to find one's ishta", matches, to a quite a good extent, what had happened with me.
Btw, i'm reading out the 10names of Shri Shani maharaj you had mentioned to me earlier. Thank you.


Namaste

Terrible means "terrifying" of course, but the "actual reality" of the cosmos,
of which She is the Ruler, without superimposing any mental ideations.


what does this mean in 'simple' English?



Worship of Goddess KaaLi, makes one easily accept terrible worldly events

by worldly, do you mean the happenings concerned with the laukika aspect of a person's life?



Further, such a worship easily rids one of the sense of guilt from the past.

Guilt about what?




Again, Goddess KaaLi speedily endows Her devotees with strength
(so says Sri Aurobindo, in His text "The Mother"),
to speedily resolve the past birth intense deed impact.



again, karma is being mentioned here, is it? Strength to bear more difficulties?



She takes over Her devotees' lives and that inevitably means
at least 5 years of suffering after Her taking over.
.

Why "inevitable" suffering? Is it 5 because it stands for the Mother? Does this mean that She would come only into those folks' lives, like mine, who have tonnes, or atleast 5 years, of negative karma-s to undergo?

Can you explain the points a bit more? Thanks once again.

Ra K Sankar
15 March 2013, 11:28 PM
Namaste Bala-ji

Terrible is what is not palatable to our senses.

We may regularly view "Criminal Minds" in TV and go to sleep.
This may gradually create nightmares after sufficient time.
We may get awakened from sleep, roll-over and sleep again,
without getting up, refreshing and meditating.
That will re-impress the nightmares in us and
we may experience these crimes while awake.
To others, this may look horrible,
but we had to experience these crimes.:)

Guilt is something which we got attracted to doing
but to which doing we have not managed to reconcile.
This is the conflict between deed and values.:)

Thanks and kind regards
Ra K Sankar

Ra K Sankar
15 March 2013, 11:44 PM
Namaste Bala-ji

We do both good and bad, but some we do with intense energy.

Normally, it is the bad that gets done with intense energy,
because we do this against the wishes of others,
and that means we need, not only energy to do the same
but also to combat the counter-acting energy from others.

When we are evolved, we may be able to intense good deeds.

But at some point in one of our births,
good and bad may be about to balance each other.
At that time, sudden misfortunes befall us.
making us realize that God is the doer.
Then, some past intense deed may also bear fruit.
This will compound our difficulties and
we may experience ourselves as the aura
or serpent surrounding our physical frame.

At this time, we feel helpless due,-
a) to our surroundings moving on uncontrollably, and
b) to our not comprehending our serpent aura.
Most of us are without the guidance of a spiritual Guru.
Hence, to come back to life feeling normal,
we may take about 3 to 5 years.

This time is taken to initiate ourselves into spiritual life,
guided by our past impressions and by the Grace of God.

Of course, 3 represents Jupiter, the Guru of the celestials
and 5 represents Mercury, the Lord of changefulness.

Thanks and kind regards
Ra K Sankar