Hindus await LDS apology on Gandhi's proxy baptism

[Visvamitra]

Anyone aware of this stuff with the LDS Church baptizing the ancestors of people who were Hindu? What are your thoughts?

http://matangitonga.to/2012/03/05/hindus-await-lds-apology-gandhis-proxy-baptism

[Eastern Mind]

Anyone aware of this stuff with the LDS Church baptizing the ancestors of people who were Hindu? What are your thoughts?

http://matangitonga.to/2012/03/05/hindus-await-lds-apology-gandhis-proxy-baptism

Vannakkam: I actually more or less respect the Mormon Church for their focus on families and strong morals, but certainly this is one nutty doctrine. In the long run, it will do any coercive or subtle evangelizing efforts a whole lot of harm. This is a good side outcome.

I certainly don't believe you can actually convert after death. Certainly not any real conversion in any sense of the word. So its not actually a mystical problem. The soul that was Gandhi is either off in a heavenly moksha state, of back in another body, and my guess is the latter. Just some really fanatical doctrine. I know if it was for someone in my immediate family, I'd be calling a lawyer. Maybe HAF will do just that.

Aum Namasivaya

[charitra]

They did the same with jews in England a couple of years ago and earned the wrath of Jewish community. Went to cemetaries a nd dug out the records out of the offices and converted the dead and buried. Im not kidding !! Christians compete among themselves fervently for inter denominational conversions. Ex British PM Tony Blair 'converted' to catholicism FORMALLY in a C church after he left office :) So did Newt Gingrich !!

Why should we bother what they do inside their place of worship.

Namaste.

[TTCUSM]

Anyone aware of this stuff with the LDS Church baptizing the ancestors of people who were Hindu? What are your thoughts?

http://matangitonga.to/2012/03/05/hindus-await-lds-apology-gandhis-proxy-baptism

So long as the Mormons aren't physically harming us, let them do what they want.

[shian]

the other nuts, what we can say to the nuts ?

[wundermonk]

My thoughts are the following.

(1)Xity is an empty religion - theologically, logically and metaphysically.
(2)Xians are more or less just deceitful people.
(3)Converting the rest of the world by hook or crook - in other words, tricking people into their religion - trumps everything else.
(4)Indians in general are clueless about the sinister intentions of Abrahamics.
(5)Indians in general are also clueless about the superiority of their religion.

Have a nice day!

[Aakriti]

Because I have a more than passing knowledge of Mormonism (legally known as "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints"), a religion which began in the 1800s in the United States, because members of my family are ex-Mormons, I think it is probably my responsibility to point out several things that are not well known outside of the United States (and are frequently misunderstood even within the United States):

1) Despite the legal name, Mormons are generally not considered to be a Christian religion by other Christians. Depending on the Christian denomination you ask, there will be different reasons, but the consensus is that Mormonism is not, and never has been, "Christian" by any criteria other than the founder put the words "Jesus Christ" into the name of the religion in order to curry favor with the Christian religions prevailing at that time.

2) Mormonism does meet the criteria for a "cult" (the contemporary, negative kind of cult; not the academic use of the word to describe religious activities in ancient religions).

3) The Mormon "imperative" to baptize dead people (this is something that is tremendously important in Mormonism) is done for a number of reasons, beginning with the fact that believing Mormons actually do seek to "steal" the souls of non-Mormon dead people. Although those same believing Mormons say that the dead have the right to refuse their baptism, this is not so according to their own doctrines, since further temple rituals, performed either immediately afterwards or very soon afterwards, supposedly "bind" the baptized dead soul "for time and all eternity."

4) The "Mormon Church" is basically a business, purporting to be a church, and is searching for new members all of the time to increase their income. Members are required to pay a minimum of 10% (it's actually more than this) of their GROSS income to the Church, and cannot participate in Mormon temple rituals without a "temple recommend" which, among other things, testifies that these tithes have been paid and are up to date. There is no accountability to anyone for this money: not to members of the Church, and not to the U.S. or any state government (due to legal restrictions on the separation of "church" and state).

5) The reasons why there is such an emphasis on baptizing the dead is that members do this work as part of their "callings," and must have temple recommends to do it, so this means that most of the members are always up to date on their tithing. There is a constant need for new "dead people" to baptize in order to keep the members "busy."

6) Everything in Mormonism--every single piece of real estate (including shopping malls, factories, stores, etc.)--is legally owned by one single man (it is ALWAYS a male, by Mormon "law"). Although there are a group of "advisors" in subordinate positions, legally EVERYTHING is owned by this one man. When he dies, it is "passed on" to the next male in the ruling line. The Mormon Church, in all of its holdings, is worth billions and billions of dollars, and every single cent or dollar contributed by anyone anywhere is legally owned by this one person.

7) The Mormon Church does not do or contribute to charitable activities for non-Mormons...and does very, very little for its own members, even when they are in extreme distress...and contributes heavily to political causes and candidates who they believe will increase the power of the Mormon Church throughout not only North American, but throughout the world. (Think of the global missionary activities which are pretty much a "required" part of every Mormon male's life for two years.)

For anyone interested: http://www.exmormon.org has an entire site devoted to everything I have said, and far, far more--complete with all historical records, etc.

[Maya3]

I think it is terribly rude to pull dead peoples names from a database and "baptize" them.

Mormons have amazing databases for genealogy research for this reason. Anyone who has done some family history research knows that their databases are meticulous. It's fascinating that they actually think that jumping in a pool of water and saying a random dead persons name can change anything.

If it makes them feel better to do so, it is fine with me, as long as they don't change things my religious affiliation. I don't want my relatives to find my name in a database in 300 years and have it say that I was Mormon.

But if they sleep better at night because they think that they have saved people from hell then good for them. Sleep is important.

Still, it IS rude.

Maya

[Aakriti]

If it makes them feel better to do so, it is fine with me, as long as they don't change things my religious affiliation. I don't want my relatives to find my name in a database in 300 years and have it say that I was Mormon.


From a LDS (Latter Day Saint/Mormon) perspective, this is exactly the point (and it could well have very lasting consequences so far as planet Earth and your descendants and future collateral relatives go): If you were to die and be dead dunked (baptized as Mormon after your death, because your name was found in some vital statistics, hospital records, census records, whatever, by some temple worker who, working diligently on their "calling," procured them somewhere), you are entered into the permanent Mormon records as being a baptized Mormon (almost always with further temple "binding" ceremonies, which I don't understand, but know that they exist in multiple different forms).

Your non-Mormon relatives, in this lifetime, would ALSO--so far as they could be identified--be dead dunked, etc., etc....as would THEIR non-Mormon relatives, etc. Temple workers would "contribute" at least hundreds of hours of work, over time, to identify all of your relatives, and all of THEIR relatives, for all of the generations to come...and every identified individual, in systematic fashion, would be dead dunked and then receive "their" further temple "commitment ceremonies" (depending mostly on their gender and their marital status).

These records are kept deep within a mountain in northern Utah (state of the United States; the adopted "home" of Mormonism), in an immense vault complex which was built at enormous cost, and which was designed to withstand any natural disaster of any kind, or damage from any nuclear weapon. Even if the United States were completely wiped out by an asteroid hitting Earth, those records would survive...and would be able to be retrieved at some point in the future.

At that point, of course, you wouldn't care...but in my opinion (and in the opinion of many, many non-Mormons and ex-Mormons) this is one of the most insulting and offensive things that could ever be imagined. It shows total disrespect to every person who is dead dunked (because obviously, if they are dead, they are not giving their consent to being dead dunked), and to their families from the identifiable past as well as the future for perhaps thousands of years, and this is enormously offensive and disrespectful to all of the religions and beliefs (or non-beliefs, because many of the people being dead dunked are sincere atheists and agnostics) which become unwitting parts of this (to me) reprehensible Mormon practice.

You, yourself, under the name and identity you have right now, may never "be" Mormon (according to Mormon belief) until after you're dead dunked and don't care, but everyone you have ever been related to, and any descendants of yours who will ever be born at any time to come, may--if we're not very conscious of what's going on here--be identified as Mormon themselves somewhere down the line.

[EDITED TO ADD: I have never before seen this expressed this way, and maybe I'm the first one to "see" that this is what is actually happening, but the way it actually works (according to everything I know) is: If you are dead dunked after your death, by that act (of your being baptized Mormon), you are giving "permission" to the LDS/Mormon Church to dead dunk anyone who has ever, in all of your recorded ancestry, or will ever--during all future generations of your family line, be related to you in any way--and this means: whether this is by biological genetic heritage, or by marriage of some kind (and I think "step-parents" and "step-siblings," etc., count as relatives of yours or your affiliated descendants). Example: You are dead dunked, but you have no children...so no direct descendants. But your SISTER or BROTHER or COUSIN can be dead dunked because YOU have been (so, by Mormon belief, your sister/brother/cousin are related to a Mormon), and this means that all of their descendants (as well as their relatives-by-marriage). If a complete-as-is-possible family tree is created, and this is what many temple workers spend many hours doing every week throughout the world, then all of those names which are discovered will very probably be turned in as "baptizeable"...and will be baptized at least once. Many people are dead dunked numerous times because the temples have run out of names but they want to keep the temples open and operating, so they just trade names around the temple circuit, and everyone gets rebaptized a few times more. That's what just happened to World War II Holocaust victim, and Dutch national, Anne Frank, who was just re-baptized the eighth or so time, this time in the Dominican Republic (I think). I know this sounds like this is some kind of very dark, comedic farce, but it most definitely is NOT. And this is why Jews, among many other people, are so offended and upset that this is not only happening, but CONTINUES to happen, even after the LDS/Mormon Church REPEATEDLY promises to NOT do this ANY MORE...and then they get caught doing it all over again.]

[Maya3]

Would it also say that I was Mormon in other non Mormon data bases? Or just in the Mormon data bases?

I can see how this is upsetting to you and to other people, it is certainly rude and kind of strange in my opinion.
But it cannot have an affect on anyone other then the people who think they are helping. How could God know whom you are talking about when you are pulling a random name from a person you know nothing about from a database?

When i leave my body, I will no longer use my current name, and it doesn't really matter what people who don't know me would do with it.

But again, if this changes databases all over the world and changes data to say that people who were not Mormon were, then is beyond insane.

I'm glad people are speaking about this though, most people don't know about it and it's good that people are becoming aware.

Maya

[NayaSurya]

Mormons have been doing this for decades...and by decades i mean that when i was about 5 my older sister and brother went to salt lake city and dunked themselves for about 100 "poor souls" who were "too stupid" to be mormon before they died.

They keep extensive records for that purpose...it's true.

You have no idea how dern weird that religion is...i couldn't even post the most unsettling thing those folks did while i was around...if i did i would be banned for vulgarity.

It's a vulgar profane religion.

That doesn't mean good folks get sucked into it and do find peace within the outter edges. My family, for a few years did. Although i was fighting it the whole way...and refused to be baptised myself, much less some extra dead people.

Every Spring they had a big baptism thing for the children...and every year i refused...litterally ran from the building if they touched me.

I was a good child, never said no...to any adult. So for me to behave this way, my parents could only think it was because a fear of the water. So every year i was made to take swimming lessons at 7 a.m. in the morning...in frigid water....and i could swim like a dolphin!

It was a bit like Hansel and Gretel....the witch kept checking his finger to see if he was fat enough to eat...he kept sticking out a thin chicken bone.:p

And so it goes...until i could get away from them.

There were some good folks i met during that time, truly close to Beloved.

But, this was a tiny minority within a sea of the sleeping masses.

I avoided their baptism as a child...but surely my name is high upon a list somewhere in the "ones that got away" column....they are just waiting for my death.:rolleyes:

Even if they apologize, they will keep doing it...because truth is...they aren't really sorry...it's that smug arrogance which they are so famous for.

I have faith, that...anyone in the far future, who looks at those lists....and see names such as...George Washington. See his birthdate is years an years before the birth of j.smith...will be able to know the sort of trickery being committed here.

[Aakriti]

Would it also say that I was Mormon in other non Mormon data bases? Or just in the Mormon data bases?

I can see how this is upsetting to you and to other people, it is certainly rude and kind of strange in my opinion.
But it cannot have an affect on anyone other then the people who think they are helping. How could God know whom you are talking about when you are pulling a random name from a person you know nothing about from a database?

When i leave my body, I will no longer use my current name, and it doesn't really matter what people who don't know me would do with it.

But again, if this changes databases all over the world and changes data to say that people who were not Mormon were, then is beyond insane.

I'm glad people are speaking about this though, most people don't know about it and it's good that people are becoming aware.

Maya

To my knowledge, these sorts of baptismal records become part of the open genealogical record base which is available to anyone, doesn't matter who you are or what religion you may be. (Temples have genealogical libraries on their grounds so anyone--whether Mormon or not--can do genealogical and historical research there. The Mormon libraries do ask that genealogical information which is discovered by non-Mormons be contributed to the Mormon genealogical records so it will be permanently on record for everyone to use. With the Internet, I'm sure that most or all of this same information is available online, with just a few mouse clicks.)

How this information is used, by whom it is used, and which data bases it then becomes a part of, is anyone's guess. Who knows?

There is a thread on Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) going on right now explaining how Mitt Romney's father-in-law (Mitt Romney, who is Mormon, is presently a candidate to become the Republican nominee for president in this year's U.S. presidential election) was dead dunked against his explicit wishes and instructions at a "special family meeting" fourteen months after his death, and there is some interesting discussion of this practice. http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,436973

And I agree: people do need to become aware of this. :)

[Aakriti]

Mormons have been doing this for decades...and by decades i mean that when i was about 5 my older sister and brother went to salt lake city and dunked themselves for about 100 "poor souls" who were "too stupid" to be mormon before they died.

They keep extensive records for that purpose...it's true.

You have no idea how dern weird that religion is...i couldn't even post the most unsettling thing those folks did while i was around...if i did i would be banned for vulgarity.

It's a vulgar profane religion.

That doesn't mean good folks get sucked into it and do find peace within the outter edges. My family, for a few years did. Although i was fighting it the whole way...and refused to be baptized myself, much less some extra dead people.

Every Spring they had a big baptism thing for the children...and every year i refused...litterally ran from the building if they touched me.

I was a good child, never said no...to any adult. So for me to behave this way, my parents could only think it was because a fear of the water. So every year i was made to take swimming lessons at 7 a.m. in the morning...in frigid water....and i could swim like a dolphin!

It was a bit like Hansel and Gretel....the witch kept checking his finger to see if he was fat enough to eat...he kept sticking out a thin chicken bone.:p

And so it goes...until i could get away from them.

There were some good folks i met during that time, truly close to Beloved.

But, this was a tiny minority within a sea of the sleeping masses.

I avoided their baptism as a child...but surely my name is high upon a list somewhere in the "ones that got away" column....they are just waiting for my death.:rolleyes:

Even if they apologize, they will keep doing it...because truth is...they aren't really sorry...it's that smug arrogance which they are so famous for.

I have faith, that...anyone in the far future, who looks at those lists....and see names such as...George Washington. See his birthdate is years an years before the birth of j.smith...will be able to know the sort of trickery being committed here.

Thank you for posting this.

I understand completely where you are coming from (I have family members who are ex-Mormons).

I think you must have been about the most courageous and intelligently tenacious child raised within Mormonism who ever lived. :)

I admire what you did, and I admire you.

Aakriti

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: Just a question ... How do they figure out a lineage that doesn't keep a family name? (Sri Lankan Tamil, for example) That must be particularly hard. Hopefully they don't, or can't. Not that I really care. I still think its just rudeness mainly. That and condescending pomposity. :)

Just to explain. If a person's name is A..B, his son is B...C , then his son is C...D, so you lose A and B. This must be frustrating to the Mormons. Then there's people like me who did a legal change of name. Just thoughts.

Aum Namasivaya

[NayaSurya]

That is very sweet, thank you for the kindness<3 But, i was scared, not really brave at all.:p

One time...my elder...he was Beloved Beloved. He didn't want me to become baptised unless I was 100&#37; sure. They had moved me to an advanced class for those who have begun to question things...one which had made me very miserable.

My elder truly a good man, he was very unhappy about this. He felt i should not be in adult classes and so young. Also that i was being pressured to be baptised. So he told me that when we baptise, we can never take it back...and that it was something i should truly want...and to never do it unless i was sure.

All i could think about were his words...and it scared me when i thought about all the religions i had been exposed to...and the fact i felt mormonism is wrong.

When i finally committed to a religion, i didn't want it to be wrong, and in my heart i knew mormonism was.

So it was pure fear...and Beloved perhaps making me hard headed at birth (see block story to find out how hard headed i was:p )

[NayaSurya]

Vannakkam: Just a question ... How do they figure out a lineage that doesn't keep a family name? (Sri Lankan Tamil, for example) That must be particularly hard. Hopefully they don't, or can't. Not that I really care. I still think its just rudeness mainly. That and condescending pomposity. :)

Just to explain. If a person's name is A..B, his son is B...C , then his son is C...D, so you lose A and B. This must be frustrating to the Mormons. Then there's people like me who did a legal change of name. Just thoughts.

Aum Namasivaya

They gather up the native folks they have convinced to turn mormon and make them do it. Same way all over the world. Unfortunately.

[Aakriti]

Thanks to the very good people at Recovery From Mormonism (known familiarly as RfM) http://www.exmormon.org , I now know that there is a current Mormon mission active in India, in Bangalore. http://www.mission.net

Not only do I know that this mission exists, but thanks to traveller, who posts at RfM, I know that there is a blog about the Mormon missionaries who work there, training the young adult male missionaries (both Western and Indian) how to convert Indians in India to Mormonism. This blog is extremely interesting: the photos are great; you get a tremendous idea of what is going on and what everyone "looks like," and there is a strong (and very attractive) sense of what this part of India is really like for those who live in this area:

http://wiggmissionindianadventure.blogspot.com (This link works fine.)

The following links did not work when I tried them from my HDF post here, but they did work when I typed everything in myself, so I am going to retype the three below, and you may need to retype them yourself:

http://wiggmissionindianadventure.blogspot.com/2012/02/lovely-lunch.html

http://wiggmissionindianadventure.blogspot.com/2012/02/kolar-gold-fields.html

http://wiggmissionindianadventure.blogspot.com/2012/02/new-companionships.html


And now I'm going to go back over to RfM and thank everyone who posted on my thread after I requested information on current Mormon efforts to convert Hindus to Mormonism. :)

[Visvamitra]

When I read this I was wondering why these guys are reaching so much. I don't think it much effects the destiny of the deceased, but it does sort of mar who they were [to people interested in history/geneology], false representation to some degree.

[Aakriti]

Statistics from hey (a poster at RfM), which were provided for my post here on HDF:

There are (currently) 37 LDS branches in India.

There are 8000 Indian members of the LDS church.

There are two missions. [I know about the one in Bangalore; I do not know where the other mission is located. Aakriti]

There are seven LDS "districts." [I don't know what a "district" means. I have never been LDS/Mormon. Aakriti]

hey on RfM says: "The church is relatively new in India, rentention is high, branches are created on a yearly basis. The church now sends out Indian missionaries."

[Maya3]

Their missionary seal bothers me a lot more than their baptizing of dead people.

Traveling the world with their smug ideas that their religion is better and changing peoples traditions is wrong, it's as simple as that.

Maya

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast&#233;


Many times in my life I have been in contact with Mormons as neighbors,
friends, and business associates. Never once have I been disappointed
with their behaviors or actions. It has been my experience that they are
clear in thought, respectful, and hold their beliefs most dear.


I have always been welcomed in their community and am of the belief
if more of the citizens of this nation ( the United States) were of the
behaviors I have observed of these people the world would be a better place.


One Mormon value that stands out for me is the following:
'We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our
own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.'



praṇām

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: When you research convert retention rates, it is widely disputed between Mormons, and those looking on, with Mormons (rather obviously, I might add) claiming much higher retention rates than their critics claim.

As a threat to us, I really don't see it much. Hindus are increasingly aware of tactics, whatever they might be. We've been through Islamic invasions, British Imperialism, and more. And I think some of the doctrines are just too nutty to be that much of a catch, a bit like JWs in that sense.

With India's increased anti-conversion awareness, and even laws, it will most likely be too little, too late for the LDS.

But you never know ... never hurts to keep one eye open.

With one notable exception, my own personal experiences mirror that of Yajvan's. With the notable exception, even the other Mormons couldn't stand the woman. :)

Aum Namasivaya

[NayaSurya]

I think that's the problem with much of what is going on. They are often so wonderful. I love my Elder. He died after one of our conversations about him on the forum. I found his family and gave them the pictures I had of him in our home and at the temple.

But, there is another side. I was trying to avoid a conversation about it. But, since I used the word vulgar and then have others come in to say how wonderful they are and if Americans were more like them...it would be better.

Well...

The reason those folks seem so straight and moral is because if they aren't....they get visits. Constantly.

When my father and mother began to fall apart. Our Elders would show up on a thursday night...unannounced (they came every week on Tuesday/Wednesday for our inspection). They would both scramble to hide the Coke, smokes...and booze. The whole house rushed around and then allowed them in. But, those men were our handlers...and they could tell by the wait.

There was a list of "watched" folks...the ones with deviations from church law.

When my father hit my mother...she went to our temple to seek help. They told her it was a womans job to submit to her husband...every way. She was actually punished for reporting him.

When my father divorced my mother, they literally threw my mother out of the church. Gave my father the right to bring us only.

There's other things, such as private underwear which women are made to wear...even during...you know...they have huge gaping slits in the crotch...and are never to be shown to nonmormons. Many in the church still believe, having several 8 year old brides is a god given right.

J. Smith used this religion to get married women who were beautiful. He would send their husbands to Africa to do missionary work. At the time, it was a death sentence. Then move the women into his home and remarry to them. He was litterally driven out of towns because of his filandering with married women. He was killed by a posse of married men who simply could not stand another minute of his sexual addiction and cultish religion in their town.

Mormon's attacked the U.S. government and killed innocent U.S. law marshals...in an ambush....

As I have said before, Mormons saved my life...by their kindness. My Elder, very Beloved to me...more like a Father.

But, the religion has a darkness the further you go inside of it. Only those who have been mormon, perhaps could understand how unsettling the teachings become.

Doesn't mean Mormons aren't good people. Many many don't even wear garments because they are not trusted... Many many fought Warren Jeffs.

But, overall. I am very glad America isn't more like Mormons. I will take coke drinking...cigarette smoking...regular folks any day over those poor folks who are controlled by a highly organized group of "Elders" to stay in line with church teachings.

There's so much more I could say here...but if you want to know more. Just look at a nonbiased history of j.smith.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


... we look at a few apples and condem the whole bushel.


praṇām

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Naya et al: I am in no way doubting what you guys say. I always sensed the dark secretive side, but never encountered it directly in any way shape or form personally. But then it seems it wasn't my karma either.

Aum Namasivaya

[charitra]

Some 7 yrs ago we visited a family in New Jersey that told us this shocking story which I cant forget ever. There was this familyof new immigrants from Hyderabad, comprising of a very young couple with 2 very small kids, living in Bronx or Brooklin . The man works and the lady with only high school education stays home and takes care of kids. One fine afternoon she hears a knock on the door and faces 2 Jehova witnesses greet her with all humbleness. They visit her2 to 4 times a week for next couple of months. All this happening without husband’s knowledge. One day when he returns home she and her kidsdisappear. The police never found the 3 again and the entire neighborhood blamed it ont he Jehova witnesses.

Some of the cults are so thoroughly motivated ,they do anything to increase the enrollment. They identify and target only the gullible. A few bad apples in Islam run the affairs oftheir faith, the majority will pretend to be silent victims, in reality they are in tacit agreement with the overall end results, they make some mute noices about the means followed that’s all. They ALL of them love the end result.

Americans usually don’t lielow and take it, right? So how come there is no hue and cry from the majority mormons and why they didn’t roll back these cemetery conversions? I concur with Naya as she experienced it all first-hand.
Namaste.

[Spiritualseeker]

Namaste,

Who really cares about what Mormons do with their silly after death baptisms. It does not affect Gandhi. The Mormon cult has so many controversies that I think we should just let them burn out as is what usually happens with them.

Om Namah Shivaya

[rainbowlotus]

Well this is unfortunate. I'm wary of the LDS religion because for the longest time they believed black people were the curse of Ham, and as a black person that offends me greatly.

[Aakriti]

I have some pressing responsibilities and obligations I am dealing with right now and I literally do not have enough time to answer the thoughful replies which have been posted. I will do this as soon as I can. Many of these replies deserve very thoughtful responses, and I appreciate every one of them.

However, someone just informed me about a new video which has gone up on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEx3grQ332w which might well be of interest to anyone reading this thread.

The import of this video goes far beyond the current (November 2012) presidential election in the United States, because this oath (among a number of others) is taken by EVERY PERSON who goes through ANY of the LDS/Mormon temple ceremonies which are held throughout the world.

The impact, right now, is to Americans (because Mitt Romney is very probably going to be the Republican nominee for president, in the election against our current president Barack Obama, who is running for reelection).

The real impact, however, is global due to LDS/Mormon conversion activities, such as those going on in India and in so many other countries around our planet.

This is, truly, everyone's business to know.

[sanjaya]

While I'm well-known here for utterly detesting Christian conversion efforts, I have to say that this practice of baptizing the dead, as well as Mormonism in general, do not really bother me. Yes, Mormons go around the country and world as missionaries, but only because their church requires them to do so. Once they come back home to get on with their lives they don't engage in this at all. Furthermore, they don't even believe that non-Mormons or non-Christians go to hell (only that we go to heaven instead of getting to become gods in our own right). As for the baptism of the dead, I guess it's better to do this than to try and convert Hindus to Mormonism while we're still alive. We believe that you can't convert after death and subsequent rebirth. So who really cares if some Mormon gets baptized in a Mormon temple and says your late grandfather's name?


Their missionary seal bothers me a lot more than their baptizing of dead people.

Traveling the world with their smug ideas that their religion is better and changing peoples traditions is wrong, it's as simple as that.

I completely agree! And it is the evangelicals, not the Mormons, who are the most serious offenders in this regard. The evangelicals are the real enemy here, which is why I think it's a waste of our time to worry about a bunch of Mormons doing strange things in the walls of their own churches.

[charitra]

As for the baptism of the dead, I guess it's better to do this than to try and convert Hindus to Mormonism while we're still alive.
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it has been going on in a very robust manner.
A couple of yrs ago, Some Yadav girl wrote an article from Uttar Pradesh or Delhi, explaining how she got converted into mormonism and managed to convert her entire family in turn and so forth.
Another software man wrote on a blog how a couple of Desi guys approached him with the mormon book and tried to convert him. The 2 unemployed young men were paid some 4 or 6 K rupees a month for their services, they told him. Most fertile land for conversions is India presently with billions of euros and dollars flowing in the task is that much more easier. When i was a kid there were hardly any churches in big towns now every small village has a church. Go figure..Namaste.

[sanjaya]

it has been going on in a very robust manner.
A couple of yrs ago, Some Yadav girl wrote an article from Uttar Pradesh or Delhi, explaining how she got converted into mormonism and managed to convert her entire family in turn and so forth.
Another software man wrote on a blog how a couple of Desi guys approached him with the mormon book and tried to convert him. The 2 unemployed young men were paid some 4 or 6 K rupees a month for their services, they told him. Most fertile land for conversions is India presently with billions of euros and dollars flowing in the task is that much more easier. When i was a kid there were hardly any churches in big towns now every small village has a church. Go figure..Namaste.

Wait, so the Indian Mormon missionaries are paid for their services? Well this at least is better than paying the converts, though the fact that the Mormons in question are Indians is disconcerting. It's also strange, since Mormons usually send Americans to non-American countries to do the missionary work.

I will never understand these people. But while I wouldn't go so far as to say I like them, I'll still take Mormons over evangelicals. I'm sure that if you look at the churches in the small villages, you'll find that they are evangelical rather than Mormon. If you ask me, evangelical Christianity needs to be banned outright in India.