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Arjuni
15 March 2012, 04:54 AM
Namasté, all,

I have rarely seen this (relatively late and minor) Upaniṣad quoted or discussed anywhere, and after spending hours with it this evening, I thought it a shame that the vibrant verse of the Bāṣkalamantra isn't better known.

Rather than quote the whole lengthy document in this post, I offer a link to what I wrote about it, here (http://wp.me/p1J3Q6-jU), where the text and a brief history are provided (along with ten thousand disclaimers about my dumbness and lack of translation ability :cool1: ).

I hope it adds to the forum resources...Corrections and/or smacks upside the head are truly welcomed!

Indraneela
===
Oṁ Indrāya Namaḥ.
Oṁ Namaḥ Śivāya.

charitra
15 March 2012, 10:59 AM
hmmmm. your enthusiam is contagious Indra. you make me read lot more than i want to , Ok i shall try and read this obscure upanishad on your blog and dig up my own small library and see whats there...:)

Namasté, all,

I have rarely seen this (relatively late and minor) Upaniṣad quoted or discussed anywhere, and after spending hours with it this evening, I thought it a shame that the vibrant verse of the Bāṣkalamantra isn't better known.

Rather than quote the whole lengthy document in this post, I offer a link to what I wrote about it, here (http://wp.me/p1J3Q6-jU), where the text and a brief history are provided (along with ten thousand disclaimers about my dumbness and lack of translation ability :cool1: ).

I hope it adds to the forum resources...Corrections and/or smacks upside the head are truly welcomed!

Indraneela
===
Oṁ Indrāya Namaḥ.
Oṁ Namaḥ Śivāya.

yajvan
15 March 2012, 04:32 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


I offer a link to what I wrote about it, here (http://wp.me/p1J3Q6-jU),

May I ask for your opinion ? Every Upaniṣad and great work is carefully named to give the greatest meaning and relevence to the knowledge that is contrained therein.

What is your opinion on bāṣkalaš + mantra upaniṣad ?

praṇām

1. bāṣkala is sometimes seen as vāṣkala; yet this word can mean 'large, great' ; it also is the name of a family regarded as belonging to the kauśika-s ; it too is the name of a teacher (a pupil of paila)

Arjuni
15 March 2012, 05:24 PM
Namasté,

Of course you may ask for my opinion, Yajvan - remembering that the reply you receive is from an ignorant with no Sanskrit knowledge. (Thank you for the words at the bottom of your post, to give me a starting ground!)

Mantra is differentiated from ordinary speech by its power to purify, refine, reform, the "magical power" alluded to in the text itself. So my thinking is that an acceptable meaning of Bāṣkala-mantra Upaniṣad might be the Teaching of the Great Transformation. This phrase would carry multiple meanings: Indra's transformation into a Ram to teach Medhātithi, Medhātithi's enlightenment by way of Indra's revelation, and the transformation offered to the student of this upaniṣad, who meditates upon the nature of Brahman as revealed within.

What are your thoughts on this title?

Indraneela
===
Oṁ Indrāya Namaḥ.
Oṁ Namaḥ Śivāya.

Baobobtree
16 March 2012, 12:39 AM
Namaste Indraneela.

Certainly an interesting find here, I've never seen this Upanishad mentioned before in the traditional lists of the 108 Upanishads. I'm curious to know if it's study survived in any exisiting traditions. Surprising to hear it survived mainly through a Persian translation of the text into Latin... I'm curious to know what reasons someone who spoke Persian would have had to study the text back when Persian speaking people were almost always adherents of Islam or Zoroastrianism.

Mana
16 March 2012, 12:49 AM
Namaste Indraneela,

A fascinating and beautiful read, thank you.
I love the reference to base 10 counting, and the calendar. There are many ideas to follow up within.

Thank you for your efforts in translation, you have done a super job!

praNAma

mana

Omkara
10 December 2012, 10:06 PM
I found an english translation of this Upanishad here-

http://books.google.co.in/books?id=XYepeIGUY0gC&pg=PA905&lpg=PA908&vq=Rudra&dq=atharvasikha+upanishad&output=html_text

It is truly a beautiful text.

(The translation from french that you have done seems to match this translation quite well.)

You might also be interested in this upanishad- http://books.google.co.in/books?id=XYepeIGUY0gC&pg=PA943&lpg=PA908&vq=Rudra&dq=atharvasikha+upanishad&output=html_text

ShivaFan
10 December 2012, 11:31 PM
Namaste

This is wonderful, thank you for sharing!

For some reason, when I read it, I kept seeing the astrological sign of the Ram in the sky - the emblem for Aries the War God is the Ram, the constellation between Pisces Fish and Taurus Bull. Of course, this is Western astrology, not Indian or Vedic.

Almost as if Medhātithi was placed as a constellation or star near Aries? "you are a ram that moves beneath the sun" ...

Anyway, it is a fantastic scripture and thank you!

Om Namah Sivaya

Arjuni
11 December 2012, 12:08 PM
Namasté,

Your contributions to this thread are wonderful to see; thank you all who have read and commented so far.

I'm sorry that I didn't see Baobobtree's comment until now. Perhaps this Upaniṣad was saved, out of a scholarly desire to preserve a rare text, but it's also possible that Zoroastrianism was the motivation. My limited understanding is that Indra appears twice within that religion: as Indra, an arch-dćmon and servant of the evil Ahriman, and as Verethragna (=Vedic Vṛtrahan), a lord of victory and a force of great good.

Mana, thank you for the praise, though the scholars who translated the original Sanskrit deserve a lot more of the credit. Converting French to English is a much easier task.

Omkara, thank you so much for these links! I had hoped that my English version was adequate, and it's reassuring to see a very similar English text in print. The Śaunaka is completely new to me, and the excerpt provided is fascinating. I had only read of the equation of Indra with the Praṇava in the writings of David Frawley, and until now, did not know that the idea appeared anywhere else. Now I'm quite motivated to locate and read the rest.

ShivaFan, the ram you're referring to does exist in Vedic astrology as Meṣa rāśi (the same meṣa, "ram," that appears in the upaniṣad's first verse). That's all I'm able to contribute, though; perhaps someone with jyotiṣa experience could better understand the knowledge being offered in that regard.

Arjunesh
13 December 2012, 10:39 AM
Thank you too

Omkara
27 December 2012, 08:35 AM
Omkara, thank you so much for these links! I had hoped that my English version was adequate, and it's reassuring to see a very similar English text in print. The Śaunaka is completely new to me, and the excerpt provided is fascinating. I had only read of the equation of Indra with the Praṇava in the writings of David Frawley, and until now, did not know that the idea appeared anywhere else. Now I'm quite motivated to locate and read the rest.



There is also this line from Taittriya Aranyaka chapter 10 -

VIII-1: The Supreme Being, Indra, who is the most excellent Pranava taught in the Vedas, who ensouls the entire universe, who leads the collection of Vedic utterances in Gayatri and other metres standing in their beginning, who is capable of being attained by the worshippers and who is the first in the causal link, taught the contemplative sages the sacred wisdom of the Upanishad, Himself being the subject-matter of them, in order to strengthen them with the power of knowledge. I salute the gods for removing the obstacles in my path to illumination. For the same I also reverence the Manes. The triple regions of Bhuh, Bhuvah and Suvah and the entire Veda are comprised in Om.


See also Kaushitaki Brahmana Upanishad 3.1-2

1. Pratardana, forsooth, the son of Divodasa (king of Kasi), came by means of fighting and strength to the beloved abode of Indra. Indra said to him 'Pratardana, let me give you a boon to choose.' And Pratardana answered: 'Do you yourself choose that boon for me which you deem most beneficial for a man.' Indra said to him: 'No one who chooses, chooses for another; choose thyself.' Then Pratardana replied : 'Then that boon to choose is no boon for me.' Then, however, Indra did not swerve from the truth, for Indra is truth. Indra said to him: 'Know me only; that is what I deem most beneficial for man, that he should know me. I slew the three-headed son of Tvashtri; I delivered the Arunmukhas, the devotees, to the wolves (salavrika); breaking many treaties, I killed the people of Prahlada in heaven, the people of Puloma in the sky, the people of Kalakanga on earth. And not one hair of me was harmed there. And he who knows me thus, by no deed of his is his life harmed, not by the murder of his mother, not by the murder of his father, not by theft, not by the killing of a Brahman. If he is going to commit a sin, the bloom I does not depart from his face! not depart from his face! 2. Indra said: 'I am prana, meditate on me as the conscious self (pragnatman), as life, as immortality. Life is prana, prana is life. Immortality is prana, prana is immortality. As long as prana dwells in this body, so long surely there is life. By prana he obtains immortality in the other world, by knowledge true conception. He who meditates on me as life and immortality, gains his full life in this world, and obtains in the Svarga world immortality and indestructibility.'