"Destroy all churches in the Arabian Peninsula" - Saudi Grand Mufti

[wundermonk]

Story here (http://rt.com/news/peninsula-saudi-grand-mufti-701/).


The Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia has said that all churches in the Arabian Peninsula must be destroyed. The statement prompted anger and dismay from Christians throughout the Middle East.

Grand Mufti Sheikh Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah made the controversial statement in a response to a question from a Kuwaiti NGO delegation. A Kuwaiti parliamentarian had called for a ban on the construction of new churches in February, but so far the initiative has not been passed into law. The NGO, called the Society of the Revival of Islamic Heritage, asked the Sheikh to clarify what Islamic law says on the matter.

The Grand Mufti, who is the highest official of religious law in Saudi Arabia, as well as the head of the Supreme Council of Islamic Scholars, cited the Prophet Mohammed, who said the Arabian Peninsula is to exist under only one religion.
The Sheikh went on to conclude that it was therefore necessary for Kuwait, being a part of the Arabian Peninsula, to destroy all churches on its territory.
In February, Kuwaiti MP Osama al-Munawar announced on Twitter that he was planning to submit legislation that would remove all churches in the country. However, he later clarified that existing churches should remain, while the construction of new non-Islamic places of worship would be banned.

Another MP, Mohamemd Hayef, backed al-Munawar, saying the number of churches in the country was already disproportionate to the number of Christians.

As for Saudi Arabia, all religions other than Islam are banned and there are no churches, although a small minority of Christians is theoretically allowed to practice their religion in the privacy of their own home.

Peaceful coexistence thought for the day.

:)

[PARAM]

Muslims will do anything to destroy others and other countries will not do anything to protect anyone from Islam, this is all for oil. A war against Islam is waiting, once the Europe stop depending on oil. Christians like Sonia and Rahul in India are also working for Muslim appeasement against Hinduism.

[ShivaIsLord]

The Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia is a nutjob. Well, most of Saudi Arabia is, to be honest. The majority of the country belongs to the Wahhabi sect of Sunni Islam.

I hope you don't let him represent all Muslims. Christians are given a high place in Islam. They are apart of the ahlul kitab (people of the book) and the following is said about them (as well as other non-Muslims) in the Qur'an:

Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. [2:62]

To you your religion, and to me mine [109]

Do not curse the idols they set up beside Allah, lest they blaspheme and curse Allah out of ignorance. [6:108]

So it's quite obvious from the Qur'an that what they are doing is wrong. Not to mention in the religious tradition, non-Muslims that live in Muslim lands are called Dhimmis. Dhimmis pay a special tax (which obviously they do if they live in Saudi Arabia) and the Muslims protect the religious minorities in exchange. So the Grand Mufti is actually being quite unislamic.

[Shuddhasattva]

The Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia is a nutjob. Well, most of Saudi Arabia is, to be honest. The majority of the country belongs to the Wahhabi sect of Sunni Islam.

I hope you don't let him represent all Muslims. Christians are given a high place in Islam. They are apart of the ahlul kitab (people of the book) and the following is said about them (as well as other non-Muslims) in the Qur'an:

Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. [2:62]

To you your religion, and to me mine [109]

Do not curse the idols they set up beside Allah, lest they blaspheme and curse Allah out of ignorance. [6:108]

So it's quite obvious from the Qur'an that what they are doing is wrong. Not to mention in the religious tradition, non-Muslims that live in Muslim lands are called Dhimmis. Dhimmis pay a special tax (which obviously they do if they live in Saudi Arabia) and the Muslims protect the religious minorities in exchange. So the Grand Mufti is actually being quite unislamic.

Namaste

I don't think this post is quite accurate. For as many quotes as you can find in the quran that seem to indicate tolerance - even of a very selective sort such as that limited to 'people of the book,' you can find more which exactly support the attitude taken by this nutjob.

The stark historical realities of Islam, even in the era of its birth, indicate that this is the norm, rather than the exception.

In order to be a grand mufti, he must have outstanding knowledge of the Quran, and the traditions of its interpretation. So rather than saying that he is going against Quran, he is in fact interpreting it in exactly in accord with the established traditions.

Namaste

[devotee]

The Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia is a nutjob. Well, most of Saudi Arabia is, to be honest. The majority of the country belongs to the Wahhabi sect of Sunni Islam.

I hope you don't let him represent all Muslims. Christians are given a high place in Islam. They are apart of the ahlul kitab (people of the book) and the following is said about them (as well as other non-Muslims) in the Qur'an:

Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. [2:62]

To you your religion, and to me mine [109]

Do not curse the idols they set up beside Allah, lest they blaspheme and curse Allah out of ignorance. [6:108]

So it's quite obvious from the Qur'an that what they are doing is wrong. Not to mention in the religious tradition, non-Muslims that live in Muslim lands are called Dhimmis. Dhimmis pay a special tax (which obviously they do if they live in Saudi Arabia) and the Muslims protect the religious minorities in exchange. So the Grand Mufti is actually being quite unislamic.

If all Muslims interpret Q'uran as you do, this world would have been free from so much bloodshed of the innocents ! May your tribe grow and prosper ! :)

OM

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


What possible good can come from this string ? The intent of this folder is to compare and contrast other views with that of sanātana dharma (hinduism). Not implied differences ( or similarities) , but those that allow one to gain a new perspective on how our sanātana dharma is contrasted to others.


Is this information news worthy ? Perhaps so, yet I can read this in the papers or in other headlines. I do not see HDF as a site that needs to restate or pass along news from other sources that do not meet the core needs of the forums area of interest.




praṇām

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: Originally posted 3 months back.. Only now there is a response?

Aum Namasivaya

[Believer]

Namaste,


Dhimmis pay a special tax (which obviously they do if they live in Saudi Arabia) and the Muslims protect the religious minorities in exchange......
In rest of the world, such people are called 'the Mafia' - your safety/protection for an additional tax.

Such news items help us to remove the cobwebs from our eyes. As we have been reminded many times, we are not obligated to read or respond to every post (Tom, Dick and Harry (or is it Sally? :))are the actual words used). I live among a sea of humans, some I befriend, and others, well they are just completing their journey, just as I am. So, goes for the posts in HDF; no like-aa, I move on.

Pranam.

[Shuddhasattva]

Namaste

The logical conclusion of "comparing and contrasting" the views, and activities, of sanatana dharma, and that of abrahamic religions, is recognition of A. the inferiority of abrahamic religions, and B. the threat they have posed, and continue to pose, to all other traditions, the dharmic traditions being virtually the only major tradition left standing after millenia of aggression and deceit that did not suddenly cease because someone invented the steam engine, or flipped on a light switch or turned on a computer. The world's brutality has gotten subtler, true, but no less present. Perhaps more.

Vigilance is called for, for the sake of the continuation of the dharma. Dharma traditions need to understand that which would posture and position itself as an enemy, even if the essence of dharma is to allow the existence of no enemies through the siddhi of ahimsa.

Therefore, yes, these sort of things are newsworthy and worthy of our attention as Hindu if we are so concerned with the world in which we live. I gather some are not, and construe the dharma as something else. Fair enough.

If there are those who would like to impose their view of the intent of this subforum, and I suppose it may have some validity as indeed this forum must have been created with some particular intent by adminstrator, I do not believe that such a subforum as this can exist without threads like this being created, given the nature of the animal.

You may then wish to consider removing it altogether if you are adverse to the presence of such threads.

Namaste

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


Namaste

If there are those who would like to impose their view of the intent of this subforum, and I suppose it may have some validity as indeed this forum must have been created with some particular intent by adminstrator, I do not believe that such a subforum as this can exist without threads like this being created, given the nature of the animal.
Let's be clear about the intent of this sub-forum -

For discussion on the diasporic traditions of Judaism, Christianity, Islam and their similarities with Hinduism
It is rare that this occurs as it ( this folder) quickly becomes a depository of finding fault.

you mention the following,

Vigilance is called for, for the sake of the continuation of the dharma
Please talk to us of this viglance and its action items that will be meaningful and sustaining. How does one go about it ? What are its measures ? What are we to look for to see if progress is on the rise ? I am genuinely interested in your ideas.


And let me ask you your point of view on dharma... are you of the opinion that dharma depends on human intervention , that we are the cause or take authorship of this support ( dharma rooted in dhṛ , to hold in balance, support) ? I am of the firm belief that dharma is something we can align ourselves with, practice. Yet it was here before we arrived on this earth and will be here when this earth is long gone. It is not a possession, yet a quality that is universal in nature and apples to all living and non-living things. It is there whether one is open or closed to it.

praṇām

[Believer]

Namaste,

I am of the firm belief that dharma is something we can align ourselves with, practice. Yet it was here before we arrived on this earth and will be here when this earth is long gone.I see that the single generation Hindus look at our dharma lot differently than we, who inherited it through successive generations and would like to protect and pass on hopefully to our descendents for many generations to come. For us, it is not a 'One Generation' garment. Others may think of it as a 'single use, throw away' item not worthy of care or protection, as it will get discarded after one generation any way. When we have a mindset that is in the 'use and discard' mode, why would we want to take ownership of it? It was here.... it will be here.... maybe.... maybe not.....who cares!

I am of the firm belief....
that is, my mind is made up, I will not compromise, don't try to tell me anything else, I will simply discard your mumbo jumbo. I have been to the top of the mountain and I have seen the truth.....

Under those conditions, what is the point of having a conversation?
It is either my way or the highway.


.... are you of the opinion that dharma depends on human interventionIslam seems to have done a good job of showing that human intervention (through use of sword) can change the color of over 1 billion. The proud Zoroastrians of yesterday, through human intervention, became the newly minted Shia's and would die for this new virus that they have been infected with.

Pranam.

[ShivaIsLord]

I don't think this post is quite accurate. For as many quotes as you can find in the quran that seem to indicate tolerance - even of a very selective sort such as that limited to 'people of the book,' you can find more which exactly support the attitude taken by this nutjob.

Have you ever read the Qur'an? The Qur'an allows violence, but only in very very specific circumstances. I could easily pick and choose verses from Vedic literature and talk about how Hinduism in horrible because of the caste system, and how unfair it is. But I try to avoid generalizing over a billion people at a time.



In order to be a grand mufti, he must have outstanding knowledge of the Quran
Not true. To be a grand mufti, you have to be wealthy, wahhabi, and well connected. Related to the royal family doesn't hurt either.


If all Muslims interpret Q'uran as you do, this world would have been free from so much bloodshed of the innocents ! May your tribe grow and prosper ! :)
OM
Insh'Allah (god willing). If you actually look throughout history, you will find that 99% of all violence and hatred promoted by "islam" is actually promoted by Sunni extremists that wish to crush all opposition, so that they don't have to deal with other people pointing out facts. Try debating with a wahhabi, it is not possible. You can argue that the sky is blue, but they will find some way to argue that it is not because the Qur'an says so (even though it doesn't . . . )

[devotee]

Namaste Mumineen,

You present interesting viewpoint. I have read Qu'ran though I can't claim to be an authority in that scripture. The scripture gives scope of interpretation the way you do.

The problem is that Shias, Sufis etc. are themselves under attack from the hardliner Sunnis and we don't really know how long you people would survive ! So, who is goling to listen to your voice in the Muslim world ? I have been in a Muslim country with many of Muslim friends for quite some time. They are basically good people but the problem with Islam (Wahabi's version) is that you are not allowed to question the Mullah's interpretation of Q'uran. How many have the guts to disobey their fatwas and stay alive ?

On one hand they say that all Muslims are brothers and on the other hand they indulge in worst crime against the Shias, Sufis, the Bahais. Afghanistan where the Sufi tradition flourished is left with hardly any visible Sufis !

I don't know how this bloodshed in the name of religion and God is going to stop !

OM

[Believer]

Namaste,

Insh'Allah (god willing).
An iranian person that I worked with several years ago, was of the opinion that the Arabs came and looted them, raped their women and converted them to Islam. As such, he did not identify himself as a muslim and wore an ancient Zoroastrian symbol around his neck. What binds you to this so called religion that was forced upon your ancestors by the marauding holy warriors from mecca? Why is this alla, alla, your middle name?

Pranam.
-

[devotee]

An iranian person that I worked with several years ago, was of the opinion that the Arabs came and looted them, raped their women and converted them to Islam. As such, he did not identify himself as a muslim and wore an ancient Zoroastrian symbol around his neck. What binds you to this so called religion that was forced upon your ancestors by the marauding holy warriors from mecca? Why is this alla, alla, your middle name?


Is this the right way to talk to visitor from other religion ? What has gone wrong with us ? We have forgotten our cherished tradition of giving due respect to people who visit us !

I can say that people in the Muslim country where I stayed for a few years were much better human beings than us. In spite of the fact that their religion is so much against idol-worship etc. ... when you visit them they make you feel that you are so special to them.

Believer, you can do better than this.

OM

[Seeker]

Is this the right way to talk to visitor from other religion ? What has gone wrong with us ? We have forgotten our cherished tradition of giving due respect to people who visit us !

I can say that people in the Muslim country where I stayed for a few years were much better human beings than us. In spite of the fact that their religion is so much against idol-worship etc. ... when you visit them they make you feel that you are so special to them.

Believer, you can do better than this.

OM

+1

Added to that, the humblest person I have met in my life happen to be an old muslim gentleman. It would be my loss if I shun his acquaintance due to his Islamic appearance.

[ShivaIsLord]

The problem is that Shias, Sufis etc. are themselves under attack from the hardliner Sunnis and we don't really know how long you people would survive ! So, who is goling to listen to your voice in the Muslim world?
Ah, yes. This is very true. A lot of countries have tried passing laws that declare Shi'as and others to be kaffir (unbelievers - non muslims) which would strip them of all rights. This hasn't happened, as far as I'm aware, but it's effectively in place. It was in either Pakistan or Saudi Arabia (I can't remember) there is one area that is majority Shi'a while the rest is majority Sunni. Instead of granting that one area state-hood as with all of the other areas of the country, they instead made it a "territory" so that the population has no voting rights. I'm not saying that Shi'a countries are perfect, far from it, but they don't try to strip fellow Muslims of their voting rights, as far as I am aware.



An iranian person that I worked with several years ago, was of the opinion that the Arabs came and looted them, raped their women and converted them to Islam. As such, he did not identify himself as a muslim and wore an ancient Zoroastrian symbol around his neck. What binds you to this so called religion that was forced upon your ancestors by the marauding holy warriors from mecca? Why is this alla, alla, your middle name?

I am not Iranian, so it is not "my ancestors". I disagree, however. Yes, Arabs did do that and it was in the name of Islam, but it wasn't how you're thinking it happened. During the reign of Uthman, Muawiya, and Yazid (Sunni caliphs - the first is accepted as "rightly guided" according to Sunnis, the latter two are just good leaders according to them), there was a strong push to keep Islam "pure", or in other words, Arab. The Ahlul Bayt (descendants of Muhammad) and their followers, however, disagreed. The Shi'atul Ali (faction of Ali - they form today's Shi'a) believed, as was taught by Muhammad, that all human beings were equal, and the only thing that could put one above the other was their deeds - good or bad (I'll provide a quote from Muhammad at the bottom of this post). So the Shi'a, being persecuted by the Sunni majority, shifted their "headquarters" per se to Najaf, Iraq. The movement then spread to Iran, where the Persians were quick to accept Shia Islam. It was only later when the Sunni's conquered the whole of the middle east did such atrocities occur. I'm not saying that it was only the Sunnis, and Shi'as have done some bad things, but it was mostly the fault of the Sunnis. I am a Muslim because I believe it to be the truth, not because it was forced on my "ancestors". I am white, not Iranian. I was born and raised in the United States.


Is this the right way to talk to visitor from other religion ? What has gone wrong with us ? We have forgotten our cherished tradition of giving due respect to people who visit us !

I can say that people in the Muslim country where I stayed for a few years were much better human beings than us. In spite of the fact that their religion is so much against idol-worship etc. ... when you visit them they make you feel that you are so special to them.

Thank you for your kind defense. I do not think that all Muslims are better than all Hindus. Ghandi was a much better man than Osama bin Laden. But I really appreciate your acknowledgement that we're not all savages :D Thank you very much.

[ShivaIsLord]

I apologize, I forgot to include that quote from Muhammad I mentioned in my last post about racial equality. I find it really pathetic that even though this is in the Sunni hadith (traditions and sayings) books, they did not follow it right after Muhammad died. It should have been fresh in their minds.

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action." Sahih (authentic) Bukhari & Muslim (two collections of hadiths, it appears in both of them)

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


I am of the firm belief....
Yes, I am of the firm belief... Where in this day and age it is considered revolutionary to the the truth.

praṇām

[Mana]

हरिः ओम्


Namaste,


How does one stop the warrior class when if the Brahman have not the experience of second birth; knowledge is transient and
thus not always successfully passed by blood lineage.
Supposing that it is the Kshatriyas, who assume this role of Brahman when dharma has dried crumbled; how does one convince
them that this is so? The Rudra Howl, one can feel the pain in their hearts; dripping from their words, the venom in their speech.

What should one do when confronted by ones own family and lineage; on the opposing side of the battle field?

This battle is raging within. Religion is the illusion of mAyA, mātṝkās game; the same black thoughts of the exact same demons,
from both sides; drive this battle from within.

Do you not see this?


praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Aum Namaḥ Śivāya

[Miyazaki]

Muslims will do anything to destroy others and other countries will not do anything to protect anyone from Islam, this is all for oil. A war against Islam is waiting, once the Europe stop depending on oil. Christians like Sonia and Rahul in India are also working for Muslim appeasement against Hinduism.

I would respectfully posit that Muslims and Christians do not exist.

[realdemigod]

Very interesting.. I hope they destroy at least some :D

[Sahasranama]

Very interesting.. I hope they destroy at least some :D
LOL just let them destroy each other and bring out the popcorn. ;)