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Leena
14 April 2012, 08:40 AM
I was wondering if you could consider yourself Hindu while agreeing with the teachings of Jesus without the rest of the Christian views, like eternal heaven/hell, belief in Satan, and anti-idol worship (I don't think Hindus practice idol worhip because all forms that are worshipped are representation of the same God. Anyways, if the Hindu forms of God are idols, then the Holy Trinity could be considered idols, and therefore would be idol worship, which is contradicting the Christian anti-idol worship belief.) . Is it ok to accept Jesus as an incarnation of Vishnu, even though he isn't listed as an incarnation with Rama, Krishna, etc?

Mana
14 April 2012, 09:19 AM
Namaste Leena,

Some believe that Jesus disappeared to India during is younger days where he might have learnt Ayurveda and Jyotish, even maths and economics ...

Jesus a yogi, sound logical to me.

You are free to believe this, or whatever else you like.

Its is regarded to be historically correct that the Roman Emperor Constantine compiled the Bible 500 odd years after the fact, so the rest is less than hearsay, nothing more than a very crude verbal tradition.

Problems arise when groups of people amass after the fact, proclaiming to have all the teachings written and the "Word" of god when there is no real structure of verbal tradition.

sanAtana dharma grows from the very understanding that words alone are not enough to convey an expression of God.

Now, asking a proclaimed Hindu to accept Jesus as an incarnation of Vishnu; this is a very tall order.

Myself, I find it more interesting to ponder the origins of the Latin word "decimate".

To kill every 10th; now why would that tradition arise?

Of course, history is just that, amusing for thought and for better understanding the present; but defiantly not worth getting het up about.

I hope that you can consolidate your previous beliefs, there are many other more interesting aspects of santAna dharma to explore, with out becoming stuck in the politics and dogma.

Sometime we need to let go in order to move on, with that said, I do fully understand your need to consolidate your dharma.

praNAma

mana

Jainarayan
14 April 2012, 09:22 AM
I was wondering if you could consider yourself Hindu while agreeing with the teachings of Jesus without the rest of the Christian views, like eternal heaven/hell, belief in Satan, and anti-idol worship

Hinduism is Sanatana Dharma, the Eternal Law or Eternal Way.

You must read the Sermon on the Mount and decide; do not read it literally, but metaphorically. It's not necessary to gouge one's eye out to avoid looking at someone with lust, or that a 13 year old boy cut off his right hand for masturbating to Playboy pictures.

Do you derive a way to live peacefully with others, yourself and God, with love and devotion from the Sermon on the Mount?


Is it ok to accept Jesus as an incarnation of Vishnu, even though he isn't listed as an incarnation with Rama, Krishna, etc?
It's OK to do anything you want if you consider consequences and repercussions. I can't speak for all 900 million Hindus, but I think most do not accept Jesus as an avatar. Some accept him as an enlightened being (I do; some say he never existed, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence); some will outright reject him as inconsequential. Don't follow the crowd: 900 million Hindus, 900 million beliefs and opinions.

Eastern Mind
14 April 2012, 09:24 AM
Vannakkam Leena:

An individual is free to choose whatever mixture of paths that they want to. This is practically the norm these days.

But what is the benefit?

Is Hinduism missing something that it becomes necessary to believe in Jesus, or to add Jesus to the altar? If so, I'd like to know just what that is exactly?

What benefit is it to you? Are there not personalities and saints within Hinduism that gave the same message, or is Jesus's message so vital that Sanatana Dharma is incomplete without it?

Personally, I see this common trait amongst converts and seekers a lot. I think it is remnants of an earlier subconscious mind that was at one time molded very very strongly. Its difficult to forget how to ride a bicycle, no? Maybe once in a while its nice to take that bicycle for a spin, even.

Why not walk all the way across the bridge to the other side, and not look back? Buy yourself a brand new bicycle on the other side. Maybe even a motorbike.

Maybe another analogy is a divorce and a remarriage. Certainly your second marriage may not work out so well if you are oft remembering the first husband.

Aum Namasivaya

Sahasranama
14 April 2012, 09:35 AM
I was wondering if you could consider yourself Hindu while agreeing with the teachings of Jesus without the rest of the Christian views, like eternal heaven/hell, belief in Satan, and anti-idol worship (I don't think Hindus practice idol worhip because all forms that are worshipped are representation of the same God. Anyways, if the Hindu forms of God are idols, then the Holy Trinity could be considered idols, and therefore would be idol worship, which is contradicting the Christian anti-idol worship belief.) . Is it ok to accept Jesus as an incarnation of Vishnu, even though he isn't listed as an incarnation with Rama, Krishna, etc?


1) Accepting Jesus as an avatar is only a personal imagination and has no basis in Shashtra. If we started using our personal imagination as a guide for these matters than the concept of avatara will become completely meaningless.

2)Hinduism and the Bible are essentially irreconcilable. You cannot belief both. If you want to be Hindu, the sooner you forget about Jesus the better.

Mana
14 April 2012, 11:03 AM
Namaste Leena,

You see Leena, the word Jesus to some is a kin to, a crucifix to a Vampire.

This is why we should not forget the need to see beyond the words them selves. To look for the experience of which the scripture speak, this enables us to behave more like those who inspire us.

Those who obsess over the rules, I shall say no more in this thread ...

praNAma

mana

Leena
14 April 2012, 11:03 AM
Thanks for your replies. All points of views are gladly appreciated. I want to note that I wasn't raised in a religious home and am not sure if I'm a convert or just adapting, because I don't really have a religion to convert from. The reason for asking is that I have heard of Hindus who follow Jesus but still maintain that they are Hindu, and was just curious if this is accepted among the majority. Sorry, I should have included this in the beginning and will try in the future to be sure that I have the complete thought down before posting.

Mana
14 April 2012, 11:14 AM
Namaste Leena,

You are more than welcome Leena. How have you come to discover sanAtana dharma?

Are you drawn to any particular lineages at the moment or maybe you are still absorbing the general philosophy? It is quite a change from the somewhat "Newtonian" mindset of many European or American schools. Please forgive my scientific bent, it's just that to my mind this effects us as much if not more than other dharma.


praNAma

mana

Sahasranama
14 April 2012, 11:20 AM
Thanks for your replies. All points of views are gladly appreciated. I want to note that I wasn't raised in a religious home and am not sure if I'm a convert or just adapting, because I don't really have a religion to convert from. The reason for asking is that I have heard of Hindus who follow Jesus but still maintain that they are Hindu, and was just curious if this is accepted among the majority. Sorry, I should have included this in the beginning and will try in the future to be sure that I have the complete thought down before posting.
You cannot take these Hindus very serious if they still attach so much value to Jesus and his teachings. It is best to realise that Jesus and Christianity are completely irrelevant to Hinduism. India has its own rich traditions of Gods, doctrines and spiritual practices, there is absolutely no need to project Christian beliefs and values on it. It will be like trying to look at something beautiful with your hands in front of your eyes.

Eastern Mind
14 April 2012, 11:36 AM
Thanks for your replies. All points of views are gladly appreciated. I want to note that I wasn't raised in a religious home and am not sure if I'm a convert or just adapting, because I don't really have a religion to convert from. The reason for asking is that I have heard of Hindus who follow Jesus but still maintain that they are Hindu, and was just curious if this is accepted among the majority. Sorry, I should have included this in the beginning and will try in the future to be sure that I have the complete thought down before posting.

Vannakkam: I was much like you then. I'm an adoptive. ('Adoptive' and 'convert' as explained in 'How to Become a Hindu' by Subramuniyaswami) Although raised in the west, we never went to church (excepting some weddings, the odd funeral) and Jesus was irrelevant then, just as the concept is for me today. As for the question you posed here, I think the vast majority of born Hindus just don't care. In India itself, you see the influence far more in places like Kerala, where there has been a long history of a Christian presence. The converts are much different, as they do have a personal history with it (Christianity) . Many, in fact, end up returning to it, after some brief or longer sojourn into Sanatana Dharma. For them its like "Oops". We have had some of those on here. One even posted a few wise things before telling us all we were going to hell. So I have compassion for that, because it must be so confusing. Rather than just writing a story, they are forced to re-edit, and re-edit, a much more arduous task. It's a constant comparison battle inwardly. How does this scripture compare with the old one? and all that. But for adoptives, there's really nothing to compare it to.

So welcome to Hinduism, Leena. I think you'll find it to your liking. A whole world of wonderful searching and exploration, of beautiful souls, beautiful temples, mystical divine presence, and much much more you would never imagine awaits you. :)

Aum Namasivaya

Leena
14 April 2012, 12:22 PM
Namaste Leena,

You are more than welcome Leena. How have you come to discover sanAtana dharma?

Are you drawn to any particular lineages at the moment or maybe you are still absorbing the general philosophy? It is quite a change from the somewhat "Newtonian" mindset of many European or American schools. Please forgive my scientific bent, it's just that to my mind this effects us as much if not more than other dharma.


praNAma

mana

I came to Sanatana dharma around November of last year when I read a book from my library. I felt this strong connection right away with Vishnu and Krishna. Since then, I've read the Ramayana and am now reading the Mahabharata and the Vedas.

PARAM
14 April 2012, 12:33 PM
There are many Hindus who have Christian friends, they do belive in Juesus just from outside but when those fake friends mock Hinduism, this fake friendship ends there.

Eastern Mind
14 April 2012, 12:42 PM
I came to Sanatana dharma around November of last year when I read a book from my library. I felt this strong connection right away with Vishnu and Krishna. Since then, I've read the Ramayana and am now reading the Mahabharata and the Vedas.

Vannakkam: I hope you get a chance to visit a temple soon, if you haven't already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hindu_temples_in_the_United_States#Indiana

Aum Namasivaya

wundermonk
14 April 2012, 01:29 PM
I was wondering if you could consider yourself Hindu while agreeing with the teachings of Jesus without the rest of the Christian views, like eternal heaven/hell, belief in Satan, and anti-idol worship

Difficult.

I searched for "Christianity images" in google. The picture that came about first was this bloody, gory, SAD image.

http://trueeventindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/image-christianity.jpg

In contrast, "Hinduism images" turned up the following image:

http://devotionalonly.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/lord-shiva-108-names-with-meaning.jpg

As should be clear, Hinduism concepts of divinity are infused with fun, joy and elation. Xian concepts of divinity are filled with sadness and death.

Thus, Jesus is not deserving of inclusion under the Hindu pantheon.

UniversalLove
14 April 2012, 02:09 PM
Hello Leena,

When I first joined this forum, I asked myself the exact same question.
I have found that you should believe whatever and however you want to believe. It is your own spirituality and path in life. Please don't allow anyone to discourage you.

Best wishes. :)

Sahasranama
14 April 2012, 02:18 PM
When I first joined this forum, I asked myself the exact same question.
I have found that you should believe whatever and however you want to believe. It is your own spirituality and path in life. Please don't allow anyone to discourage you.

Of course, you can belief whatever you want, you can also belief in unicorns, but such beliefs have no relevance in a discussion about Hinduism.

wundermonk
14 April 2012, 02:42 PM
In post #23 I showed why from a purely imagery sense, Hinduism is superior and richer.

Now, I will add a few more reasons why belief in Jesus is incompatible with Hinduism.

The entire soteriology of Xity is based on Jesus dying for our sins. In no other way can I think one can make sense of Jesus' death and resurrection. He HAD to die so that the infinity of our sins can be vicariously washed away.

There is nothing equivalent to this within Hinduism.

In Karma/Reincarnation, YOU [your self to be more precise] are the maker of your own destiny. This should make a Hindu the maker of his own destiny.

Next, Christianity is based on Adam/Eve or a set of first humans. They sinned and thus all of us are fallen since the time in the Garden of Eden. Thus, belief in JC entails a belief in a God that kick started this universe with sin. JC HAD to die to wash away your sin, my sin, Adam's sin, Eve's sin, etc. etc.

In Hinduism, creation is a pleasureable and sinless and joyous experience.

"There was no one to know who I am...until I created this world, at my pleasure...with the words....OOOOOMmmmmm." is a famous Vedic statement.

Christianity is based on HISTORICAL occurences - existence of Adam/Eve, crucifixion of JC, his subsequent resurrection, a physical day of doomsday/day of Judgement at some finite point in time in the future, etc. etc. If any one of these are proven false, Xity crumbles. See this thread - Evangelicals question the existence of Adam/Eve (http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=8024).

Hinduism is beyond history and personalities. Krishna/Rama need not even have existed...the purpose of Bhagavad Gita, Mahabharata and Ramayana are to expound Dharma via the beautiful, rich and fertile form of an epic. Hinduism is thus more robust.

Thus, Xity is stifling and makes one narrow minded and pretty much intolerant of diversity.

Hinduism is liberating, appealing to higher levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs and inherently tolerant.

wundermonk
14 April 2012, 03:01 PM
I was wondering if you could consider yourself Hindu while agreeing with the teachings of Jesus without the rest of the Christian views, like eternal heaven/hell, belief in Satan, and anti-idol worship

A more interesting set of questions would be the following on a Christian forum.

(1)Will you be happy in heaven knowing that I am burning in hell next door for eternity?

(2)Will Jehovah admit entry into heaven for atheists/Hindus?

(3)I do not believe Jesus was God...I believe he was just human. He also performed no miracles. Can I be considered Christian?

wundermonk
14 April 2012, 03:15 PM
A more interesting set of questions would be the following on a Christian forum.

(1)Will you be happy in heaven knowing that I am burning in hell next door for eternity?

(2)Will Jehovah admit entry into heaven for atheists/Hindus?

(3)I do not believe Jesus was God...I believe he was just human. He also performed no miracles. Can I be considered Christian?

More interesting questions to ask in a Christian/Islamic forum

(4)I believe in Krishna when he says in the BG that the universe is eternal and uncreated. Can I be a Xian/Mohammedan?

(5)I dont believe in eternal heaven/eternal hellfire. Can I be a Xian/Mohammedan?

(6)I believe in evolution and no Adam/Eve. Can I be a Xian/Mohammedan?

(7)I dont believe homosexuals should be killed as instructed by Jehovah/Allah. Can I be a Xian/Mohammedan?

Sahasranama
14 April 2012, 03:37 PM
Just leave Jesus out of Hinduism.

kallol
14 April 2012, 07:01 PM
I was wondering if you could consider yourself Hindu while agreeing with the teachings of Jesus without the rest of the Christian views, like eternal heaven/hell, belief in Satan, and anti-idol worship (I don't think Hindus practice idol worhip because all forms that are worshipped are representation of the same God. Anyways, if the Hindu forms of God are idols, then the Holy Trinity could be considered idols, and therefore would be idol worship, which is contradicting the Christian anti-idol worship belief.) . Is it ok to accept Jesus as an incarnation of Vishnu, even though he isn't listed as an incarnation with Rama, Krishna, etc?



Come to my home. You will see photo of Jesus with other saints. Hinduism is suppose to the ocean for the different religion rivers to be absorbed.

The difference is in the level of knowledge. That anyway you have in schools and universities. You move from the school level knowledge to University level knowledge.

But if you stick to school level knowledge - it is your karma.

satay
15 April 2012, 12:44 AM
Admin Note

Closed because thread went off on tangent.