Absolute beginner...

[rog]

Hi everyone, I am 45 yrs old man living in rural england.

I have always felt a sense of spiritual need but for long periods of my life I knew I was in a place like I was wandering around looking for a ladder in the dark.

In the darkness of material reality I have groped around and found certain truths about the world but still no answer to the questions I had about the ultimate truths of life and conscious reality.

I tried to be a christian because I could see truth in the message of love and forgiveness but as time went on I found their explanation for this love and the whole construct of christian spiritual reality of God/Devil etc did not fit my sense of reason.

My best awakening from that experience was to know that in seeking spiritual truth I cannot make a 'leap of faith' and claim belief in something my heart does not feel is true. It is just a lie. I hope that is ok for me to say and I'm only speaking from my own conscious perspective.

I have come to this forum because I read the Bhagavad Gita last year. I never sought the book, I was just browsing in a second hand bookshop and picked it up. When I read it, the whole construct of reality presented to me suddenly hit me as almost self evidently true and now there is nearly no 'almost'.:D

I read it carefully and spent time to think about it but it consistently defeated my natural attempts to find contradictions or unreasonable explanations in it.

The Bhagavad Gita has already taught me so much because as I read it I see more about how the big answers relate so directly to my daily life.

I have realised that my journey is likely to be infinitely longer than I ever imagined:D

I find it slow going to work through all the unfamiliar names in the texts as they have no natural meaning to me and are only slowly fixing in my mind so I don't have to look up the meaning - any helpful suggestions?

I was reading Hindu teaching about anger yesterday because (even though I do not bear grudges or hold on to anger too badly) I have a very short temper and I realised that after all these years of looking, I have found the bottom of the ladder. :D :D

That all sounds a bit heavy - I am hopefully not at all. I love to laugh and debate with no anger and I have so much to ask so - Hi.

[Seeker]

welcome Rog!

Your font colors are tough on the eyes of the colorblind.

[rog]

Yes you're right as soon as I saw my post I got a headache:D

All sorted now....

I'm already loving the honesty here - nice one Seeker.:)

Rog

[Jainarayan]

Namaste rog.


I find it slow going to work through all the unfamiliar names in the texts as they have no natural meaning to me and are only slowly fixing in my mind so I don't have to look up the meaning - any helpful suggestions?

I don't know whose translation of the Bhagavad Gita you have, but Eknath Easwaran has a very good one with chapter summaries. He has a companion commentary book.

You might find these condensed versions helpful, if this is what you're looking for:

http://www.dlshq.org/download/gita_busy.pdf
http://www.dlshq.org/download/vedbegin.pdf
http://www.dlshq.org/download/gita_vision.pdf
http://www.dlshq.org/download/hinduismbk.pdf

[Mana]

Namaste rog,

Welcome to HDF, pleased to meet you.

What a great introduction, I am glad to hear that you have found light for your path within the Bhagavad Gita, there is so much richness in this great tradition, you have found a super place here in HDF for further exploration.

The new words which elaborate the concepts, some of them new and some just forgotten; from my experience soak in with time as our conciousness grows to envelop their meaning and remember their sense.

I use this (http://spokensanskrit.de/) dictionary to get a feel for the words.

praNAma

mana

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam rog: Welcome to HDF. I hope your stay here is conducive to spiritual progress.

Aum Namasivaya

[rog]

Thank you all so much for your replies and advice.

In my immediate circle of friends and family I can't discuss as much as I feel I need to. I am aware of the danger of boring people or troubling them by being too over zealous and I am coming to terms with the fact I can't expect them to share my reality just by going on about it.

Also I know I am very much the student not the teacher and I don't want to be like a child running home from school excited to tell everyone what he learned today. (even though that's exactly how I feel:) )

I am hoping that the changes in my thinking will become apparent and those closest will come to their own realisations.

I have also realised that there are some very enlightened people who are quiet. Its so easy in all the excitement of learning to feel like I'm the first person to make these realisations..............

but I do need somewhere to talk and learn and test my realisations against the wisdom of people seeking the same path so thank you for being here.

You might already have noticed I find it hard to express myself in few words;)

Thanks for your patience

[kallol]

Dear Rog,

It is a homecoming for you. The languages are no barrier as there are many here who can help and plenty of sites and books and discourses which can help.

As you graduated from one level to another, there might be many more and all of them might be in this sanatana dharma or the eternal knowledge.

Happy learning and sharing

[devotee]

Namaste Rog,

Your sincerity looks through your post. I feel pleasure in welcoming you to this forum ! :)

OM

[rog]

I wish to share a thought I had today.

I've already explained a little of my journey and I feel there are obviously so many things unknown to me which I have yet to grasp.

I have been thinking about Hindu gods and how they can be real to me. I have been pondering whether Ganesh (for example) is a symbolic tool to worship certain aspects of Oneness............

............. or by the mere conception of Ganesh by Oneness, Ganesh actually exists and has His own personality. When I say 'exists' in this context I mean to have 'awareness of self'.

My feeling is that Ganesh is real (in this sense of being self awareness as we are) by virtue of being conceived (thought up) by Oneness which I feel must be as Hinduism describes? (I honestly don't know)

My reasoning, blessed with some small enlightenment, tells me this;

if I am consciousness of a certain order of magnitude like a tiny fractal of 'Oneness' and if 'Oneness' is all consciousness then for my consciousness to grow 'out' towards the infinite Oneness it must have the potential to pass through infinite degrees of expansion until annihilation of self through one's consciousness becoming one with Oneness.

As the consciousness becomes immensely more complete and absorbs greater parts of the truth of everything, is that what is meant by a demi-god or 'God' such as Ganesh??

When I visited Goa 8 years ago I bought a wooden Ganesh figure which has lived on my fireplace ever since. It was just an ornament when I bought it but I am wondering if it is possible that having His image in my home, even in ignorance may have influenced me (cleared the obstacles) to my sincere search for truth??

Now when I look at the image of Ganesh in my home I am starting to use it as a tool to acknowledge the immensity and greatness of Oneness in respect of how this Universe is here to be in and that I have food shelter and a small bit of realisation etc

I don't want to get caught up in semantics of words which can never truly express the immensity and scope of Oneness but this question of the personal reality of Ganesh or other deities is important for me to grasp and I can't trust my reasoning as I am too 'fresh'.

I cleaned and polished Ganesh today and moved Him forwards on the mantlepiece because even without clear realisation it felt right and good to do.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Rog: Although I'm in the minority, I believe Ganesha is separate unto Himself, not just another aspect of the Supreme. (In a much deeper sense, Everything is an aspect of the Supreme.) And what you said makes perfect sense to me. Often He is the one Hindus do encounter first, and rightfully so He is called the Remover of Obstacles.

Some very fascinating encounters with Ganesha have been had.

I was reflecting on your thread title, and the fact that you're here at all tells me you're no absolute beginner, but the fact you think so says a lot about your openness. Quite a few people who stumble upon these pages hold a belief that they know everything already.

Aum Namasivaya

[rog]

Vannakkam Rog: Although I'm in the minority, I believe Ganesha is separate unto Himself, not just another aspect of the Supreme. (In a much deeper sense, Everything is an aspect of the Supreme.) And what you said makes perfect sense to me. Often He is the one Hindus do encounter first, and rightfully so He is called the Remover of Obstacles.

Some very fascinating encounters with Ganesha have been had.


Aum Namasivaya

Thanks Eastern Mind for your encouragement. As I know more each day about being a 'Hindu', I see that without knowing it at the time I suppose I have been putting my mind slowly in a place to realise.

This may make you smile but until I found the Hindu body of wisdom, only David Icke had provided me a construct to consider 'Universal Consciousness'. I will be eternally grateful to him for this - bless him.

The progress I have experienced so far is in some areas of self control. My conviction that Sanatama Dharma is right thinking comes from the changes I have already achieved in my mind which are so much easier and natural than when I tried to achieve this through 'will power' without any enlightenment. It is also my innate sense that the Hindu unified conception of reality as Oneness (world / body / mind ) is right.

I think I was trying to fix a broken tool with itself!

My first response to reading your reply was "Wow, what exactly are these experiences" I don't mean the details of the encounters with Ganesh, I mean in which aspect of reality have these encounters occurred.

I feel that I have largely 'emptied my cup' as best I can and I have started to fill it up. I am most comfortable with the truth of Oneness and the infinite extrapolation of Oneness in to all that is. What I find challenging is the scope of realisation I need yet to have.

On one level I am truly comfortable with the fact I am unlikely to complete my learning in this lifetime but in an immediate sense, aside from the joy I feel at my realisation of identifying my path, the predominant sense I have about my proclamation of being a Hindu is that I am overwhelmed at how much practical guidance I am yet to learn.

For example today, leading on from my reading about anger, I was reading about Chakras. It is compelling how as I learn I am saying to myself things like "of course" and "that makes so much sense" but I haven't even grazed the surface of knowledge on this subject.

I think what I am trying to say is that even though I have a strong feeling of truth, I am only making certain realisations on 'my own'. I now realise that 'external' sources such as Bhagavad Gita, other Hindu texts or other people are valid guides and teachers. I know the final realisation of any truth lies in 'me' but contrary to my very first post, I am contemplating putting some 'faith' in the whole thing as an 'act of faith'.


(from other thread)

Hindusim isn't primarily scripture based. It is also practice based. In other words, things like temple worship (bhakti), right conduct (charya) , and more are considered key. Many Hindus simple don't read any scripture.........

........... its a big big world, and welcome to it. Aum Namasivaya

My difficulty is I'm 45, english and I have little culture of public worship, no puja, no tradition of much at all that relates to the Hindu way.

I totally get that it isn't a scripture based 'religion' and all that counts is realisation but I feel I have found the humility to admit that I must allow myself to benefit from previously realised wisdom. If this was not so there would be no point in anyone guiding or being guided. The word 'guide' is key here as opposed to coerced or forced.

......for example, the figure and form of Ganesh are a visible representation but I used to think that it was irrelevant what form of symbol was used but I am tending strongly to think that as a result of divine revelation and millennia of realised confirmation, His form is perfect for the expression of His self and another form would not 'connect' so well with the real consciousness of Ganesh.

I have therefore concluded that I would be wise to use the 'well trodden pathways' on my own journey which I know I still need to actually make.

I hope I'm not too long winded:)

Rog

[IcyCosmic]

Hey Rog, that was a great read. Its awesome that you are coming to terms with hinduism and enjoying it.

I live in England, and my parents are hindu, I did temple worship, I did festival celebration, I felt some connection to god, but it wasnt realised till I studied the scriptures, there was no context/substance till I understood the religion through the vedic literatures and without them my love for sanatana dharma would have never developed. I would have still stood by my statement of 'as long as you are a good citizen and a good human being you will attain god' which would still hold true in some cases but its far from the whole picture.

So. I think its good you are emphasizing scripture studies, the more you learn, the more knowledge you will attain, and the more power you will have to exercise hinduism practically. Good luck man. I hope the rest of your journey is a happy one.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: I don't think you're too long winded; it just shows your enthusiasm. Still, I'd strongly encourage you to get to a Hindu temple somewhere. There is a certain feeling within them that can't be touched on by words or scripture of any kind.

Aum Namasivaya

[rog]

Hey Rog, that was a great read. Its awesome that you are coming to terms with hinduism and enjoying it.

I live in England, and my parents are hindu, I did temple worship, I did festival celebration, I felt some connection to god, but it wasnt realised till I studied the scriptures, there was no context/substance till I understood the religion through the vedic literatures and without them my love for sanatana dharma would have never developed. I would have still stood by my statement of 'as long as you are a good citizen and a good human being you will attain god' which would still hold true in some cases but its far from the whole picture.

So. I think its good you are emphasizing scripture studies, the more you learn, the more knowledge you will attain, and the more power you will have to exercise hinduism practically. Good luck man. I hope the rest of your journey is a happy one.

Hi Icy

thanks for your reply and comments and giving me some idea of who you are. I'm not nosy but I like to know a little something if I'm chatting as it's more natural.

We're both english but such different journeys:) I envy your knowledge which you had in place from childhood, ready to come in to focus as you achieve realisation of the concepts. I've got some catching up to do:D

[IcyCosmic]

No problem man, I don't find it nosy it all - its only natural. Feel free to hit me up on Private Message if you ever want to ask anything.
Haha, I guess I'm lucky in that regard - yeah.

[mradam83]

Hi everyone, I am 45 yrs old man living in rural england.

I have always felt a sense of spiritual need but for long periods of my life I knew I was in a place like I was wandering around looking for a ladder in the dark.

In the darkness of material reality I have groped around and found certain truths about the world but still no answer to the questions I had about the ultimate truths of life and conscious reality.

I tried to be a christian because I could see truth in the message of love and forgiveness but as time went on I found their explanation for this love and the whole construct of christian spiritual reality of God/Devil etc did not fit my sense of reason.

My best awakening from that experience was to know that in seeking spiritual truth I cannot make a 'leap of faith' and claim belief in something my heart does not feel is true. It is just a lie. I hope that is ok for me to say and I'm only speaking from my own conscious perspective.

I have come to this forum because I read the Bhagavad Gita last year. I never sought the book, I was just browsing in a second hand bookshop and picked it up. When I read it, the whole construct of reality presented to me suddenly hit me as almost self evidently true and now there is nearly no 'almost'.:D

I read it carefully and spent time to think about it but it consistently defeated my natural attempts to find contradictions or unreasonable explanations in it.

The Bhagavad Gita has already taught me so much because as I read it I see more about how the big answers relate so directly to my daily life.

I have realised that my journey is likely to be infinitely longer than I ever imagined:D

I find it slow going to work through all the unfamiliar names in the texts as they have no natural meaning to me and are only slowly fixing in my mind so I don't have to look up the meaning - any helpful suggestions?

I was reading Hindu teaching about anger yesterday because (even though I do not bear grudges or hold on to anger too badly) I have a very short temper and I realised that after all these years of looking, I have found the bottom of the ladder. :D :D

That all sounds a bit heavy - I am hopefully not at all. I love to laugh and debate with no anger and I have so much to ask so - Hi.

Hi Rog, I have only just joined today and I feel so much of a parallel with your history.

I especially like it when you said:-

"My best awakening from that experience was to know that in seeking spiritual truth I cannot make a 'leap of faith' and claim belief in something my heart does not feel is true. It is just a lie. I hope that is ok for me to say and I'm only speaking from my own conscious perspective."

I have been guilty of doing this very same thing in the past when I was a Christian and I was constantly trying to convince myself I did believe in the faith and the more I tried to convince myself, the more damage I did. Now I'm a bit older and wiser, I feel a lot more willing to take my time and lOok into things to see whether I believe it or am just trying to make myself believe it.

Best of luck to you in your journey.