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IcyCosmic
26 April 2012, 11:51 AM
It can be difficult at times
In England, the omnipotent presence of abrahamic religions is at times depressing. I love all religions, I respect them all, I learn from them all - but its when they are ignorant and say things like 'oh you worship like 100 million gods your religion is fake'..... or ...... 'your gods have like 10 hands thats stupid'......'so your uncle might have been a dog in the past life, that make so sense'......

Luckily I understand Hinduism to a certain extent so I can explain the symbolic depth and the levels of understanding to these individuals, but it seems as if Hindus respect everyone, but no one respects us. Being a loud and agressive personality myself it just boils my blood. To add to that all the Hindus around me know nothing about our dharma. Sure being disorganized as a religion has multiple advantages but atleast the muslims all understand their religion even if they dont abide by it. It's a shame how such a small % of hindus understand ANYTHING past just saying Aum Namah Shivaya and worshipping the gods and the festivals. Bare bones knowledge. I'm referring specifically to the youth, I'm the only one who has read the Gita. Even the elders are bewildered...Oh well...Nothing you can do I guess... haha....just wanted to get this off my chest....

Something I find relieving is intelligent atheists (not the ones who use it as an excuse to be immoral fools) find much light in hinduism and respect the scientific depth and the layered philosophy laced throughout our scriptures advanced thought that they have never been exposed to from a religion.

and know peoples opinions? how do you feel being a hindu? I'm hearing that they are suppressed in India also? That's a mighty shame.

Eastern Mind
27 April 2012, 07:55 AM
Vannakam Icy: I love being Hindu! Can't think of any negatives at all really. What others outside the dharma do or say is more or less irrelevant. As for Britain being an intolerant place, I think perhaps the Bible Belt of America could be worse. I haven't lived in each to compare.

I think we have to be careful regarding what we teach the children. If it isn't balanced with humor, a sense of being up to date, some logical well-explained wisdom, it can be a real turn-off. I see this especially with the Puranas. Kids are really smart these days. They're no longer suckers for the old rote memory methods, or silly outdated stories that begin with 'Back when I was a kid', or 'Back in India'.

For example, I think taking a kid to a Ganesha temple to hear the sounds, see the rituals, sing some bhajans, watch others participate etc. is probably far more valuable and current than reading him the story of how Ganesha's head got cut off.

Kind of the difference between a school field trip, and just reading a book on the subject.

Aum Namasivaya

realdemigod
27 April 2012, 11:38 AM
IcySFX,
I'm very proud to be Hindu and born in India. If I get human form every life I would want to be nothing but Hindu. You should let such people make fool out of themselves and refrain from entering a dialogue with them. Politics to some extent is ok but religion is never a topic for discussion.

kallol
27 April 2012, 01:57 PM
It is the knowledge which can remove all the insecurity of the mind. I am not responsible for spiritual advancement of others as I have limited control or no control over others.

I have some control over what I do. So it "you" who you should be more focused on.

Study a lot and that will bring lots of clarity and lots confidence. It is not to convince others but yourself.

Which ever suits you - choose that path and move ahead.

JaiMaaDurga
27 April 2012, 08:02 PM
Namaste IcyFX,

I understand the weariness and frustration one can feel when faced with
yet another example of ignorant and insecure attempts at mockery;
your post reminded me of my feelings upon coming across Franklin Graham
(son of famous evangelist Billy Graham)'s absurd and empty statement:

“No elephant with 100 arms can do anything for me. None of their 9,000 gods is going to lead me to salvation.”

Yet, there has always been someone powerful, influential and wealthy
saying and thinking things like this, and far worse.
Though I will never turn a blind eye to those who ever seek to grind us
under their heel, or underestimate the depth of their error,
still better to guard against the shadripu, the "six enemies" who never sleep..
for how can I help my brother stand, if my own back is broken?

Consider- why should I not feel happy and proud, when a young man of
18 is showing concern and thoughtfulness for Sanatana Dharma, instead
of embracing the shallow, impulsive, and materialistic values that the
young are bombarded with daily?

You are not the only one, I am sure- and while you may be "loud and
aggressive", when others see you are not ashamed of who you are,
the honesty and integrity will speak louder and longer than mannerisms;
the heroes and sages are remembered and revered not for doing what
was popular- but for doing what was right:)

JAI MATA DI

Leena
28 April 2012, 09:04 AM
Namaste,

I could be considered an 'in the closet Hindu' as I have not yet completley 'came out' with the exception of close family and friends. I am not at all ashamed to be have begun this journey, but I fear that if I tell my coworkers and others they will be react in a way that Icy had mentioned, I won't be able to properly defend myself or SD because people like to interrupt me when I am explaining things, then laugh and walk away. I don't do so well with explaining things under pressure anyway. For know, I'm absorbing as much as I can until I have the confidence to speak of it with others. I hope that I am understanding it properly so as to not shine a bad light.

Privately, I am enjoying it and am satisfied. I feel that SD found me through my many wonderings about existence, only I didn't know what it was until a few months back. It was like breathing fresh air for the first time, because it was validation of what I felt to be the truth. SD has vastly improved my perception of Universe, world, and creatures on earth, as I feel more connected to them due to this validation. I don't think there's anything greater than SD.

Leena

IcyCosmic
28 April 2012, 09:22 AM
Namaste IcyFX,


Consider- why should I not feel happy and proud, when a young man of
18 is showing concern and thoughtfulness for Sanatana Dharma, instead
of embracing the shallow, impulsive, and materialistic values that the
young are bombarded with daily?



Thankyou.

IcyCosmic
28 April 2012, 09:24 AM
Thanks for the replies everyone, also don't take it wrong I love being a hindu sometimes there is just frustration from the lack of open-mindedness or willingness to learn something they don't understand from other people. That's all.

Also @Leena I understand your position, but I'm sure people of your age would be far more mature in discussing things like this (hopefully) - and perhaps some of them might be interested or learning about SD themselves! Good luck.

Mana
28 April 2012, 10:18 AM
Namaste IcySFX All,

I feel releaved to have discovered my path in sanAtana dharma, The wisdom of so many great rsi sages and saints; such a beautiful tradition. I feel that finding my roots here has lead me to being a better person and has helped me greatly in understanding my self and its relation to reality and Siva. It has given me a direction in life where I had none.

As is the case for Leena, it is difficult for me to be open about my beliefs in my current life situation; but this is happening greatly helped by my mAlA.

I am very open about it, but I receive a lot of jibes and jokes, this depends very much of course, on with whom we speak.
I have read much great advice on dealing with this in the superb writings of Swami Sivananda.

It can be very frustrating; Upon recently coming to know that Jyotish is very real as a science; in speaking of this. It feels strangle to be ridiculed by the most intelligent of people, when they have not even taken the time to examine the subject.

praNAma

mana

IcyCosmic
28 April 2012, 10:55 AM
That makes alot of sense, Mana.
What is MAlA? Mala?
Thanks for your response.

Mana
28 April 2012, 11:51 AM
Namaste

You are quite welcome, it is a pleasure to discuss this! Yes you are right, it can also be written mālā or better still माला.

I have not yet figured out how to do the ā on my keyboard so I use a capital A instead for ease. A common practise, but one I should maybe try to rectify as the capitals seem to be more clumsy.

I am very new to Sanskrit!

praNAma

mana

ShivaFan
28 April 2012, 05:19 PM
Now that I think about it, looking back over the decades, I have personally not had very much frustration at all regarding Hinduism or my religious belief. Perhaps my experience has been different then some others. I live in the US and have travelled all over the world including England which I love and I have not had any partcular problem or confrentation at all except only from Muslims who actually gave me confrontational and verbal threats - this happened in the UK by Pakistanis and it happened in India when I was going to enter a Hanuman temple.

As far as the US is concerned I have been to most States including the South and never had a problem. My own experience anf observation has been that there are notable numbers of Americans fascinated by India and she the religions of India as related to yoga, and they even know many of the basic terminology such as yoga, guru, karma, maya and so on.

There have been many now world renown gurus or came to the USA and were very successful in book, lecture, schools and temples.

I can say in general, India and all related religion, is very much respected and of great interest to the West.

Sure there are fundmental Christians who will state things specifically against other religions, but even among some of those I have had a listening ear and a smile!

Aum Namah Shivaya. I have no fear. It is great to be a Hindu in this age... you will find you will be popular!

IcyCosmic
28 April 2012, 05:59 PM
Namaste

You are quite welcome, it is a pleasure to discuss this! Yes you are right, it can also be written mālā or better still माला.

I have not yet figured out how to do the ā on my keyboard so I use a capital A instead for ease. A common practise, but one I should maybe try to rectify as the capitals seem to be more clumsy.

I am very new to Sanskrit!

praNAma

mana

Oh, okay haha. I was wondering why people were capitalizing things mid-word...makes sense now...good that I pointed it out haha

IcyCosmic
28 April 2012, 05:59 PM
Now that I think about it, looking back over the decades, I have personally not had very much frustration at all regarding Hinduism or my religious belief. Perhaps my experience has been different then some others. I live in the US and have travelled all over the world including England which I love and I have not had any partcular problem or confrentation at all except only from Muslims who actually gave me confrontational and verbal threats - this happened in the UK by Pakistanis and it happened in India when I was going to enter a Hanuman temple.

As far as the US is concerned I have been to most States including the South and never had a problem. My own experience anf observation has been that there are notable numbers of Americans fascinated by India and she the religions of India as related to yoga, and they even know many of the basic terminology such as yoga, guru, karma, maya and so on.

There have been many now world renown gurus or came to the USA and were very successful in book, lecture, schools and temples.

I can say in general, India and all related religion, is very much respected and of great interest to the West.

Sure there are fundmental Christians who will state things specifically against other religions, but even among some of those I have had a listening ear and a smile!

Aum Namah Shivaya. I have no fear. It is great to be a Hindu in this age... you will find you will be popular!

Really? What did these muslims say to you?

ShivaFan
28 April 2012, 06:55 PM
Well basically they said I should be killed and "we will bring your death" (UK) ... in India while I speak some Hindi, the mullah type in white with muslim cap was yelling at me in outrage but not sure what he and a few others were saying (perhaps in Urdu) but it was specifically to single me out, and it was clear to me that it was because I was a Western going into a Hanuman temple. Very ugly souls these people were.

rog
28 April 2012, 07:24 PM
Icy """ it seems as if Hindus respect everyone, but no one respects us. Being a loud and agressive personality myself it just boils my blood"

Vanakkam Icy:)

I was just browsing, letting the forum influence the direction of some thinking I'm doing and I saw your post. How you keeping bro?:D

I smiled when I read your comment, I recognise your 'anger' and I suspect you have misnamed that moment of experience. I think maybe you touched a string of 'frustration', not one of 'anger'.

Let me first describe something I told a friend earlier in a pm...;

The most dramatic 'evidence' I have of Sanatama Dharma's reality is that I have it in mind most of the day whether I like it or not and I've almost completely stopped swearing and getting angry. When I get anger rising, I quickly notice now and I'm not thinking in a spooky heeby-jeeby way, invoking god to help me, more like Spock in star trek, addressing my feelings logically and dispassionately.
This sounds so cold but the joy of peace it has given me is immense, so its warm and beautiful and not cold at all. I think that's what 'bliss' is about and I've only felt the spray off the ocean so far.
Its the simple realisation that by doing and thinking the right thing you are free 'in' any consequences , not free 'from' any consequences.



I say this with cheeky respect when I say that like me and any other human every day, your wrong thinking in that one moment of experience was manifold;

The trick is to be utterly honest with yourself allowing your awareness time to strip the facts back to the bare TRUTH, so........

if you identify the fact that their opinion is untrue in your mind, and that your frustration stems from your ego and not your atman, all their jibes are meaningless to your atman who knows the truth. This is how I experience it anyway.

Our ego is like them, deluded by the world. It is inevitable that we respect them and not them us, not disappointing or frustrating. It is neither good or bad, it just is.

The difference is that you see the truth connected in all and they see boundaries within which their truth lies which some will defend to the death.
That sounds so arrogant but I don't mean that all Hindus see all truth, especially not me.

What I mean is that we have an understanding of the workings of it all, no matter how vague, if we are forming our picture of reality on the blueprint of Sanatana Dharma, we hopefully do this in its most fundamental form by choosing to have the right thought in every moment that your awareness remembers to! Its not some religious attempt to live up to someone else's 'fictional standards', it is realising that the truth is a natural force like nature or time and the moment you make an excuse to yourself to allow ego to dominate, you fall in to delusion and ever increasing entanglement.

So if someone says you are a deluded Hindu and you start to feel a physical rush of blood to your head and you get that familiar feeling we all know when annoyance and anger rush in to you, catch the moment in your mind and shout at your ego, "Be Quiet". This instantly transports your awareness to somewhere other than ego. This could just be your intellect at first but intellect alone was how I tried and failed to suppress ego for 45 years.

What works is when you identify the voice of atman in your mind who will only speak up when the other two are quiet. Intellect can be used to quieten ego and invite atman consciously in to mind.

Atman is truth and love in your mind. It pops in occasionally when you see a baby's face or a beautiful landscape. This is the aspect of consciousness I believe that Sanatana Dharma is all about.

Hold that part in mind and ask yourself - why you are getting angry? who is going to benefit if I start shouting or feeling sad or crying? The moment has arrived, like it or not. Whatever is going on around you is irrelevant because the die is already struck. What matters is how you respond. So if you let ego come back and say "that's not fair" you are not facing facts or 'manning up to reality':D

I think that the methods I use are probably self taught baby steps and full Hindu / Vedic wisdom is more akin to Olympic gymnastics but there's no point being angry or jealous of not being born a Hindu because I'm here now and whatever got me here all I can do is put my mind in the mind of atman more than ego and I've made a start:D

I lose myself to my ego consciousness several times every day, sometimes for hours and get angry or lustful or greedy or lazy. Before Sanatama Dharma my only answer when my atman spoke was to cry out in desperation. I had the same recognition then as I do now that there was a right way and a wrong way but it was all in a mess.

I didn't know my ego from my atman. I thought they were both equally good parts of my mind so when ego and atman clashed they just wrestled constantly to the point of exhaustion but still could not rest.
Now Santana Dharma has shone light and calm into the confusion and desperate exhaustion of my mind.

I now have a construct which I can follow from 'established reality' to clarity of structure in my mind.

Now when I feel anything bad, I often let ego take over but atman now speaks louder and more often every day. When I stay focussed on this voice I try to consciously give it more say, more respect. I think Hindus seem to encourage study in every form because they know that the path from ego to atman is via intellect.


Rog

cuddledkitty
29 April 2012, 12:32 AM
Well being a Hindu is rather hard for me, living in Saudi Arabia and all. This forum is blocked in Saudi so i use a American proxy always my friend owns. Christianity is no big deal nor is Judaism honestly, but if your an idolater like what Hindu's are perceived or Paganist like a Catholic people just hate you. You will be harassed and 24/7 if they find out, they just dont like the concept of idolaters as early Islam spent many years removing idolaters from the Arab and Persian lands. But other then that being a Hindu is wonderful for me :D

IcyCosmic
29 April 2012, 04:33 AM
Hey Rog.

I'm keeping good my friend, and how about you? Thanks for asking - hope everything is going smoothly for you...

Yes, I totally agree with you. My reaction to it in such a manner is wrong in totality, and I shouldn't let it affect me. Weird thing is it never happened about a year ago, only recently after I deepened my knowledge. It just annoys me when people take time out of their life to insult and attack something they do not understand.

Thanks for all the experience and advice you've given. From here on out I will surely compose myself and use intellect as a guiding tool. You are ofcourse a more mature man so you have far more experience with anger and all these conflicting emotions than I...so thanks.

Regarding the Hindu birth perhaps it was the supreme's plan all along...maybe you wouldn't have respected hinduism if you were born into it, maybe you would have converted, maybe you would have only seen the light from the outside in....who knows. Haha. Just an idea from a sea of possibilities. The supreme does the best he can with our respective karmic bank(s) I suppose.

IcyCosmic
29 April 2012, 04:35 AM
Well being a Hindu is rather hard for me, living in Saudi Arabia and all. This forum is blocked in Saudi so i use a American proxy always my friend owns. Christianity is no big deal nor is Judaism honestly, but if your an idolater like what Hindu's are perceived or Paganist like a Catholic people just hate you. You will be harassed and 24/7 if they find out, they just dont like the concept of idolaters as early Islam spent many years removing idolaters from the Arab and Persian lands. But other then that being a Hindu is wonderful for me :D

Wow, Saudi? You are a strong woman! My friend went there recently for a pilgrimage not Hajj, the other one. I forget what it was called. Were you born into islam? If so how did you convert in a country that revolves around that religion? If I was born there I would have surely get swept up into the mix and ended up muslim...such is the force of influence in such numbers.
Good luck with the rest of your journey (:

IcyCosmic
29 April 2012, 04:37 AM
Well basically they said I should be killed and "we will bring your death" (UK) ... in India while I speak some Hindi, the mullah type in white with muslim cap was yelling at me in outrage but not sure what he and a few others were saying (perhaps in Urdu) but it was specifically to single me out, and it was clear to me that it was because I was a Western going into a Hanuman temple. Very ugly souls these people were.

Man that sucks, not sure if I would be able to control myself in such a situation haha

rog
29 April 2012, 06:34 AM
Morning Icy,

I think its interesting that you say this "Weird thing is it never happened about a year ago, only recently after I deepened my knowledge."

.... it begs the question; If you have deepened your knowledge, how come your anger is more frequent....??

This is not me being mean Icy, I considered this from my own experience. :)

It would be easy to let intellect (higher worldly thinking) tell you that this anger shows that your 'knowledge' is a delusion or else you would be less angry not more!

You can understand this apparent contradiction and still be secure in any new knowledge if you remember that for now at least we have to accept that our ego is not under full control.

Any realisation of knowledge which you achieve is done by placing your mind more toward the atman (the voice of Brahman in us all) but ego is not dead and is sulking in the background.

You can keep your 'atman head on' and recognise your progress but the moment you feel 'puffed up', 'above them' or start to think that its a great intellectual advancement that you (ego) have achieved then you know you've dropped out of atman/intellect working together and you have returned to the old intellect/ego POV.

At this point there is no enlightenment, and like any ego led thinking it doesn't matter if you are a Hindu or Catholic, BNP thug or Buddhist Monk, you will be wrapping yourself in delusion.

I imagine a little boy trying to control a big unruly dog. He may be outside in a compound getting scared as the dog becomes more and more difficult to control and he thinks his father is away or busy and no one is coming to help. In truth his father is watching all the time ready to intervene at a moments notice.

Its like the ego is the dog that wants everything and can't be controlled by its keeper - the weak little intellect. If its hungry or startled it will snarl and attack even its keeper, the intellect will get bitten.

When the intellect is sick of being pulled around it shouts to his father for help. The father, Brahman was there watching all along but he wanted to give his son intellect the freedom to try and control the dog.

Only when intellect recognises its own limitations will it shout for help. Ego is wild and dangerous, but intellect is stubborn. If the 'intellect' calls for help Brahman shows his face, ready to come in and help 'intellect' control the dog.

Even then stubborn little 'intellect' will think "Wait a minute father, I think I've got him"

Foolish child - you still have the lead but the dog just saw your Dad stand up and cowered in awe.


All 3 are in you.......the dog is ego. Don't lets be dogs.

The frightened but stubborn little boy who is desperate to succeed alone is intellect.

The father is Brahman (atman), SD tells its one and the same,who will take charge of the compound of the mind but only when the boy realises he needs help. If intellect is humble he then commits to learn the methods of his father so he grows up to be just like him.

But for now he's just glad he shouted for help. Just glad His father is now in control. He will stop trying to control ego on his own and put it in his fathers hands.

My sense of a personal Brahman is gradually solidifying from an abstract mind tool to an acceptance of His literal presence.

(As you say, I am more mature! Unfortunately until recently I was maturing like an old piece of cheese not a fine wine.)

I think I am just more exhausted by chasing up blind alleys than you are and for the first time I have stopped dashing about in the woods long enough to sit down. Its like now I'm not crashing through the undergrowth making lots of racket I can hear the sounds of the forest and it is fine to be where I am.

These are all word pictures and metaphors and sound more like abstract philosophy or mind tricks than a newly committed Hindu but I have come in to Hinduism through a door of logic and reason. I trust that Sanatana Dharma will gradually reveal the same truth in new ways which take me on.

SD is the syllabus, Brahman is the sponsor, the father and the teacher.

I'm just past where I am full of relief and realisation that He will help me. I've browsed the syllabus and learned nothing yet but he's holding the lead more often now.

I can see that there are many word pictures in SD which are far more refined and specifically accurate but the truth is it will take me years to read the texts and the images and learn their vyañjanā so for now I do my best.

Onwards Icy:D

IcyCosmic
29 April 2012, 06:54 AM
Afternoon Rog, I don't consider it mean its absolutely fine I respect and agree with what you are saying. Ego is still definetely present within me, to a lesser extent than those around me - but it is still present. With the divine intervention of god and my own efforts I am working on eliminating falso Ego. The dog, child, father example you have used is very good in drawing light to the situation.

& yes, I never think that I am intellectually above anyone, or superior, thats something my parents taught me, no one is superior to you, but no one inferior either. Everyone is equal. However you are right I do get 'puffed up' at times. It's a combination of my nature (I'm also a typical scorpio) according to vedic astrology, and being raised by a father who is very agressive. I'm getting better though...unlike my father, I have mountains of patience..and I don't get angry anymore unless I'm pushed...so things are getting better. Hopefully soon...I am in total control.

I look to the greatest and the almighty Lord Shiva, whenever my ego inflates. The serpents he has around his neck....when ego is mastered; it can be worn as an ornament. This has helped me greatly. All praises to the supreme.

rog
29 April 2012, 07:18 AM
I look to the greatest and the almighty Lord Shiva, whenever my ego inflates. The serpents he has around his neck....when ego is mastered; it can be worn as an ornament. This has helped me greatly. All praises to the supreme.

Thanks Icy, you see I love to talk!

My atman is telling me to stop spouting for a while and I have decided that I will go and learn the image and representation of Lord Shiva. How will I see the vyañjanā in Shiva if I don't learn the abhidhā or the lakṣaṇā first?

I know when I get it, I will learn quicker than using my own ideas.

I do enjoy the chat though so if anyone would enjoy my 'company' on here please don't hold back but I'm considering what amount of posting is good for me and I might be over doing it just now.

Rog

IcyCosmic
29 April 2012, 07:23 AM
Thanks Icy, you see I love to talk!

My atman is telling me to stop spouting for a while and I have decided that I will go and learn the image and representation of Lord Shiva. How will I see the vyañjanā in Shiva if I don't learn the abhidhā or the lakṣaṇā first?

I know when I get it, I will learn quicker than using my own ideas.

I do enjoy the chat though so if anyone would enjoy my 'company' on here please don't hold back but I'm considering what amount of posting is good for me and I might be over doing it just now.

Rog

Obviously I don't administrate this forum, but from my experience of running forums they are a place created for discussion, discussion benefits the users and the site, and so in my eyes atleast you can and should post as much as you like as long as its relevant. Everything you post is indeed relevant. So just have fun and learn :P

Here is a picture of the Lord I look at all the time to remind me of his glory.

http://aboutshiva.com/images/Lord_shiva.jpg

rog
29 April 2012, 07:32 AM
Great link Icy, just what I need.

Thanks:)

Leena
29 April 2012, 08:28 AM
Thanks for the replies everyone, also don't take it wrong I love being a hindu sometimes there is just frustration from the lack of open-mindedness or willingness to learn something they don't understand from other people. That's all.

Also @Leena I understand your position, but I'm sure people of your age would be far more mature in discussing things like this (hopefully) - and perhaps some of them might be interested or learning about SD themselves! Good luck.


Your welcome, Icy. It's difficult to find mature people around here, as many people never really grew up past middle school. I'm sure there people somewhere who can discuss things in a mature way, but I don't know where they are and too many negative encounters with people has caused me to build walls and keep silent of my thoughts. It's probably not healthy, but I hate trying to convey things to people when they just make snarky comments and not even try to understand my point of view. I'm sorry for seeming so negative.

IcyCosmic
29 April 2012, 08:51 AM
Your welcome, Icy. It's difficult to find mature people around here, as many people never really grew up past middle school. I'm sure there people somewhere who can discuss things in a mature way, but I don't know where they are and too many negative encounters with people has caused me to build walls and keep silent of my thoughts. It's probably not healthy, but I hate trying to convey things to people when they just make snarky comments and not even try to understand my point of view. I'm sorry for seeming so negative.

Only natural. Perhaps you could build relationships with people, and the ones you find mature, open minded and trust worthy you can share your thoughts with. You could also learn about people rather then teaching them about yourself, if you find anyone who wants to learn more, or isn't happy with their religion or anything like that that also gives you a chance to speak of SD if you feel like you need someone to talk to in your physical reality. Just keep at it

Leena
29 April 2012, 12:22 PM
Icy: I agree with you.

Rog: You have an interesting mind and I enjoyed reading your thoughts.

Arjuni
29 April 2012, 12:36 PM
Namasté,

Returning to the original question for a moment: As tempting as it is to feel proud to be a Hindu, I try hard to avoid such feelings; tying my ego's satisfaction into a religious identity would, paradoxically, hinder the very progress beyond names and labels that I seek.

A better word might be pleased. I followed a long road in spirituality and was not searching for a new religion - but somehow, I became Hindu anyway, and resident in a city with a large and vibrant Hindu population. This is a magical path upon which I now walk. I am grateful each day for it.

Indraneela
===
Oṁ Indrāya Namaḥ.
Oṁ Namaḥ Śivāya.

IcyCosmic
29 April 2012, 12:41 PM
Namasté,

Returning to the original question for a moment: As tempting as it is to feel proud to be a Hindu, I try hard to avoid such feelings; tying my ego's satisfaction into a religious identity would, paradoxically, hinder the very progress beyond names and labels that I seek.

A better word might be pleased. I followed a long road in spirituality and was not searching for a new religion - but somehow, I became Hindu anyway, and resident in a city with a large and vibrant Hindu population. This is a magical path upon which I now walk. I am grateful each day for it.

Indraneela
===
Oṁ Indrāya Namaḥ.
Oṁ Namaḥ Śivāya.

That is a very nice way to put it...thanks for your input.

Eastern Mind
29 April 2012, 01:29 PM
Vannakkam: There are lots of great words besides 'proud' that might convey our feelings better. I like:

enthusiastic
contented
happy
joyous
dedicated
sincere

etc

Aum Namasivaya

cuddledkitty
29 April 2012, 02:12 PM
Wow, Saudi? You are a strong woman! My friend went there recently for a pilgrimage not Hajj, the other one. I forget what it was called. Were you born into islam? If so how did you convert in a country that revolves around that religion? If I was born there I would have surely get swept up into the mix and ended up muslim...such is the force of influence in such numbers.
Good luck with the rest of your journey (:

lol i was born a Christian, and i was born in Japan above all else i just moved my citizenship to Saudi, i was easily accepted for business purposes. My mother can claim Saudi citizenship since her family was brought as slaves and ended up fighting in their proxy battles that involved child soldiers. During that confusion she was thought to have citizenship as it wasnt as strict as it is now. My mother was never a Muslim and her only though about humans and religion is that "everyone must die" so i never mildly respected or liked her and i took after my father and became a Christian but i found it so flawed for myself. My mother hates anything nice and innocent and especially hated me so i knew if she hated Islam then nothing i wrong with it lol. I was wrong, Islam i find is brainwashing not in its theology but how it strips people of culture. You choose an Arabic name and can only make salah in Arabic. According to my theory of God, god knows and understnds all languages, he does not answer to the Arab people alone. I found Islam to be a form of Arabic Patriotism and not a religion. Nothing wrong with that but i wish to keep my Japanese pride.

rog
29 April 2012, 04:28 PM
Namasté,

Returning to the original question for a moment: As tempting as it is to feel proud to be a Hindu, I try hard to avoid such feelings; tying my ego's satisfaction into a religious identity would, paradoxically, hinder the very progress beyond names and labels that I seek.

A better word might be pleased. I followed a long road in spirituality and was not searching for a new religion - but somehow, I became Hindu anyway, and resident in a city with a large and vibrant Hindu population. This is a magical path upon which I now walk. I am grateful each day for it.

Indraneela
===
Oṁ Indrāya Namaḥ.
Oṁ Namaḥ Śivāya.



Vanakkam Indraneela, Hi:)

Yes, I agree with Icy and nice confirmation from EM

I have been battling with this issue even though in terms of SD I have little yet to be proud of. I find these posts are really helpful and Yes EM, I am 'pleased'.:) (ie feeling like your list)

Rog.

charitra
01 May 2012, 09:25 AM
Pride confirms arrogance as well as ignorance, unless it is used as a synonym of self esteem. Joy and relief are the right words for me. Namaste.

mradam83
07 June 2012, 05:19 PM
Well basically they said I should be killed and "we will bring your death" (UK) ... in India while I speak some Hindi, the mullah type in white with muslim cap was yelling at me in outrage but not sure what he and a few others were saying (perhaps in Urdu) but it was specifically to single me out, and it was clear to me that it was because I was a Western going into a Hanuman temple. Very ugly souls these people were.

Namaste all.

That is terrible, but I can believe it. In my city, The local mosque got into loads of trouble when they handed out leaflets offering a cash reward for every Sikh girl raped! It sounds extreme, but it was confirmed true. Naturally, many Sikhs were outraged and subsequently got into lots of fights with local Pakistani Muslim guys. They are so volatile, no wonder my good Sikh buddy and his family can't like them very much.

In response to the question though from Icy, I feel very contented. It's not like when I was a Christian though and I shouted from the rooftops, I feel like I've truly discovered the last piece of the puzzle and I can start to complete the jigsaw that is my life.

I hope that makes sense?

IcyCosmic
07 June 2012, 05:46 PM
Namaste all.

That is terrible, but I can believe it. In my city, The local mosque got into loads of trouble when they handed out leaflets offering a cash reward for every Sikh girl raped! It sounds extreme, but it was confirmed true. Naturally, many Sikhs were outraged and subsequently got into lots of fights with local Pakistani Muslim guys. They are so volatile, no wonder my good Sikh buddy and his family can't like them very much.

In response to the question though from Icy, I feel very contented. It's not like when I was a Christian though and I shouted from the rooftops, I feel like I've truly discovered the last piece of the puzzle and I can start to complete the jigsaw that is my life.

I hope that makes sense?

It makes complete sense, brother. :D

mradam83
07 June 2012, 08:14 PM
It makes complete sense, brother. :D

Namaste.

That feels great being called brother. :-D

I saw on a few posts that Rog was helping you out with some anger techniques. How're you getting on with that now?

Jainarayan
07 June 2012, 08:30 PM
Namaste.


Pride confirms arrogance as well as ignorance, unless it is used as a synonym of self esteem. Joy and relief are the right words for me. Namaste.

And 'comfort' and 'peace'. Those are things I rarely felt before becoming Hindu.

ShivaFan
07 June 2012, 11:30 PM
My Duty as a Devotee of Shiva and what it means to be a Hindu.

I remember this from a friend. I may not have it exactly right. He was a Punjabi. He told me this. So this is my understanding of my duty to Shiva.

Once there was a beautiful green bird that was a Green Magpie. The Green Magpie lived in the Himalayas. This bird wore a black mask around the eyes,and had a red bill and red legs. The wings were a beautiful brown, there were white tips on the feathers of the rump, the body was green and at the end of along green tail was a while tip.

This Green Magpie was a girl, and she would spend her time hunting food which was frogs, lizards, snakes, and the biggest insects she could find.

Even though she was a meat eater, she became the good friend and devotee of a very wise yogi who was a strict vegetarian, and who would spend most of the day in meditation on Shiva.

How did this happen?

Once this Magpie was deep in the Himalayas, and came upon an old temple of Shiva. She observed and was fascinated by the ruins of the temple. Sometimes tasty bugs would climb up the side of the stones that would make up the walls which she would eat, and then she peeped inside.

It was largely empty. No Shiva Lingam. No Murthi. But carved on the wall was an image of Lord Ganesha. And to her surprise, just at the feet of this carving, on the stone floor, was a locust.

She took up the locust and then flew away to eat. She finished her meal.

From the tree, she observed there was a human. It was the yogi who frequented the area. He sat under a tree and was meditating. A snake was slowly approaching. She let out a “peep!” and a “peep!” – the yogi opened his eyes, and saw the snake.

She dived down and took up the snake, and flew back to the tree upon snatching it.

The yogi was surprised. “So you wanted to save me, is that it?” he said. To think that this little bird would save him! It was almost funny in a way.

She knew the yogi was kind. In fact, she became a great devotee of the yogi, and would often go looking for him and sing for him, even when he was in meditation. And over time the yogi developed a love for this little bird, even if he was a great yogi.

One day, the Green Magpie found a partner. He looked just like her. She took her partner to show the yogi. The yogi was very pleased. And before long, there was a nest with four green eggs with gray spots. They were gems.

This Green Magpie carried on and on one day in front of the yogi. Finally the yogi followed her back to the nest. The yogi understood she wanted him to climb the tree to see the eggs. It was like a miracle.

And so he did.

He climbed up and looked down into the nest. The eggs were the most beautiful things one could imagine.

Carefully he came down. He thought, “This bird shared with me such a beautiful thing. These eggs are in themselves so simple, and yet so complex, and so plain, and yet so beautiful, so common, and yet so rare and secretive and how many are given the chance to see them by invitation?”

Then one day, a man came into the forest who was looking about, saw the nest, climbed and took away the eggs. She was horrified. The mother and father Magpie were heartbroken and angry at the world.

She took her husband to the abandoned temple. The father would not go in, but she went in and simply sat on the floor. Night came.

The next day, she still would not move. The father flew. He stared to search for the yogi.

He did not trust any human. He almost didn’t trust the yogi, since he also looked like a human.

But he was desperate – so he flew about looking for the yogi, and found him in meditation.

He carried on and on in front of the yogi, and finally the yogi knew he wanted him to come, and so the yogi did.

The father Magpie took the yogi to the abandoned temple. The yogi went inside, there to see his beloved Green Magpie sitting on the floor. He knew she was not moving, that she wanted to die.

Somehow, she told the yogi that he was great, he was wise, and he was strong. So very strong. But she said she was not strong. She could never be so strong as this yogi. She could not go out and live again in the forest with her husband.

The yogi told her, “You say I am wiser than you, and stronger than you. Perhaps this may be true. But do not do this my beautiful Magpie. For my strength comes from you. If you go away, you will have also taken away my strength.”

Of course, the yogi can endure anything. But he also wanted her to know that it was her love that gave him strength. Without her, well it would be a sin for her to do this. That she had no right to even diminish the strength of this yogi in any way.

She realized that she must come out. Because she should not take away the strength of the yogi, for this may also take away what is needed by others.

She came out.

And soon there was a family again. But this time there were six green eggs.

The yogi is Lord Shiva. If you become His devotee, you then have a duty. Your Dharma. It is never to be weak, but strong in your yoga, and in bhakti, and in your love and learning.

Because you are the strength He sees, and He sees His strength in you.

You are His devotee? Then always be His strength. It is your duty if you are willing. In that way, you will come outof the abandoned temple. And live in His Great Temple which is never abandoned. This is how I feel about being a Hindu.

Equinox
08 June 2012, 12:54 AM
ShivaFan, that was absolutely beautiful. So much meaning and very inspiring!

Shanti29
08 June 2012, 02:59 PM
My Duty as a Devotee of Shiva and what it means to be a Hindu.

I remember this from a friend. I may not have it exactly right. He was a Punjabi. He told me this. So this is my understanding of my duty to Shiva.

Once there was a beautiful green bird that was a Green Magpie. The Green Magpie lived in the Himalayas. This bird wore a black mask around the eyes,and had a red bill and red legs. The wings were a beautiful brown, there were white tips on the feathers of the rump, the body was green and at the end of along green tail was a while tip.

This Green Magpie was a girl, and she would spend her time hunting food which was frogs, lizards, snakes, and the biggest insects she could find.

Even though she was a meat eater, she became the good friend and devotee of a very wise yogi who was a strict vegetarian, and who would spend most of the day in meditation on Shiva.

How did this happen?

Once this Magpie was deep in the Himalayas, and came upon an old temple of Shiva. She observed and was fascinated by the ruins of the temple. Sometimes tasty bugs would climb up the side of the stones that would make up the walls which she would eat, and then she peeped inside.

It was largely empty. No Shiva Lingam. No Murthi. But carved on the wall was an image of Lord Ganesha. And to her surprise, just at the feet of this carving, on the stone floor, was a locust.

She took up the locust and then flew away to eat. She finished her meal.

From the tree, she observed there was a human. It was the yogi who frequented the area. He sat under a tree and was meditating. A snake was slowly approaching. She let out a “peep!” and a “peep!” – the yogi opened his eyes, and saw the snake.

She dived down and took up the snake, and flew back to the tree upon snatching it.

The yogi was surprised. “So you wanted to save me, is that it?” he said. To think that this little bird would save him! It was almost funny in a way.

She knew the yogi was kind. In fact, she became a great devotee of the yogi, and would often go looking for him and sing for him, even when he was in meditation. And over time the yogi developed a love for this little bird, even if he was a great yogi.

One day, the Green Magpie found a partner. He looked just like her. She took her partner to show the yogi. The yogi was very pleased. And before long, there was a nest with four green eggs with gray spots. They were gems.

This Green Magpie carried on and on one day in front of the yogi. Finally the yogi followed her back to the nest. The yogi understood she wanted him to climb the tree to see the eggs. It was like a miracle.

And so he did.

He climbed up and looked down into the nest. The eggs were the most beautiful things one could imagine.

Carefully he came down. He thought, “This bird shared with me such a beautiful thing. These eggs are in themselves so simple, and yet so complex, and so plain, and yet so beautiful, so common, and yet so rare and secretive and how many are given the chance to see them by invitation?”

Then one day, a man came into the forest who was looking about, saw the nest, climbed and took away the eggs. She was horrified. The mother and father Magpie were heartbroken and angry at the world.

She took her husband to the abandoned temple. The father would not go in, but she went in and simply sat on the floor. Night came.

The next day, she still would not move. The father flew. He stared to search for the yogi.

He did not trust any human. He almost didn’t trust the yogi, since he also looked like a human.

But he was desperate – so he flew about looking for the yogi, and found him in meditation.

He carried on and on in front of the yogi, and finally the yogi knew he wanted him to come, and so the yogi did.

The father Magpie took the yogi to the abandoned temple. The yogi went inside, there to see his beloved Green Magpie sitting on the floor. He knew she was not moving, that she wanted to die.

Somehow, she told the yogi that he was great, he was wise, and he was strong. So very strong. But she said she was not strong. She could never be so strong as this yogi. She could not go out and live again in the forest with her husband.

The yogi told her, “You say I am wiser than you, and stronger than you. Perhaps this may be true. But do not do this my beautiful Magpie. For my strength comes from you. If you go away, you will have also taken away my strength.”

Of course, the yogi can endure anything. But he also wanted her to know that it was her love that gave him strength. Without her, well it would be a sin for her to do this. That she had no right to even diminish the strength of this yogi in any way.

She realized that she must come out. Because she should not take away the strength of the yogi, for this may also take away what is needed by others.

She came out.

And soon there was a family again. But this time there were six green eggs.

The yogi is Lord Shiva. If you become His devotee, you then have a duty. Your Dharma. It is never to be weak, but strong in your yoga, and in bhakti, and in your love and learning.

Because you are the strength He sees, and He sees His strength in you.

You are His devotee? Then always be His strength. It is your duty if you are willing. In that way, you will come outof the abandoned temple. And live in His Great Temple which is never abandoned. This is how I feel about being a Hindu.
So beautiful and touching. Thank you for sharing that with us!

IcyCosmic
08 June 2012, 05:51 PM
Absolutely amazing, Shivafan. Kudos.

Maya3
09 June 2012, 06:00 AM
That is a very beautiful story! Thank you for sharing it.

I did not tell people in the beginning either, like Lena I was nervous about how people would react, and I didn't feel confident enough in my knowledge about it and I was afraid I would not be able to explain it.

But now I've been Hindu for several years, and I feel very confident about it, and I've actually been surprised at how fine people have reacted to it. People have been surprised but happy about it.
Only one person made a rude comment about cows, and looked extremely shocked when I told him. Other then that, it's been fine.

Maya

IcyCosmic
09 June 2012, 07:19 AM
Namaste.

That feels great being called brother. :-D

I saw on a few posts that Rog was helping you out with some anger techniques. How're you getting on with that now?

Oops sorry Adam, I missed your post. Yes I'm much better I'm far more patient now, its difficult at times because my father is so hotblooded but we pull through.

mradam83
13 June 2012, 06:42 PM
Oops sorry Adam, I missed your post. Yes I'm much better I'm far more patient now, its difficult at times because my father is so hotblooded but we pull through.

Namaste,

Don't worry, I also overlooked yours also. :rolleyes:

I'm glad things are looking up - I have the same issue sometimes with my partner as we can be very hot headed. 99% of the time we're fine, but being similar we are both very stubborn when we get one on us.

As a matter of interest, what part of India is your ancestry from?