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rog
26 April 2012, 06:44 PM
Hello all,

I have mentioned several times how limited my grasp is of the spiritual opulence of Hindu tradition.:)

I don't really know how to define or experience some of the tried and tested Dharma practices which so obviously benefit those who understand how to express themselves in that way and experience something more than I yet comprehend.

Since coming to Sanatana Dharma I have noticed how some realisations come out of the blue without any thought.

Today my sister came round. I haven't seen her for weeks because she was visiting her husband's family in Malaysia. As we spoke I was looking at her and I could clearly see our resemblance. It was very odd because this is my sister who I have known all my life. Other people may have said we look alike but I could never see it.

Almost as soon as I saw this resemblance, I realised the aspect of Oneness between us and again in a flash realised how by being shown this physical image of myself in another I was being pointed towards realisation of Oneness with everyone.

Maybe I haven't put it clearly into words but it was a lovely feeling and I can't
refute the fact that something very literal and manifestly real happened which had never happened before as I looked at her and saw myself so clearly. I didn't build up to it through mental speculation and make it happen, it just did.

The only thing different to every time I saw her before is that I have found Dharma. Ok it wasn't your full on miracle or vision but it was the simple shift in reality which I immediately realised I had achieved. Was this a miracle?

Yes and no:D

Yes because I saw something in plain sight I had looked at all my life and not seen before.

No because I was paying attention to her in a way I had not done before. Normally I would only half pay attention when she was speaking. I wasn't really interested and was always thinking of myself or some distraction. When she spoke today I just listened about what her kids were up to and I was interested. I recognised I was doing it and I intentionally paid more attention and suppressed my ego as much as I could manage and the sense of similarity got more intense.

I smiled when I realised the real lesson, which I think is that by investigating and now practising Dharma, pushing deeper in the direction which bears fruit just brings more joy.

This tiny mundane example is a confirmation to me of the potential of Dharma to guide me to a 'physical / real world' shift of consciousness.

The other sort of realisation for me is like using little understandings for pieces of a jigsaw, taking years of gathering together the pieces and even when complete, like looking at a masterpiece and taking years of looking at the picture to realise the meaning.

I don't sit in proper positions and follow classic methods because I don't know them yet. I trust that by learning them I will open the pathways more easily but for now I just sit and think and try to allow my thoughts to flow freely but logically one to another on consideration of any point until I gain clarity.

Am I meditating?:) ?:)

Rog

Mana
26 April 2012, 11:57 PM
Namaste rog,

It is taught by Swami Lakshman Ju, that 15 minutes of meditation whilst remaining in the real world (karma yoga) is the equivalent of a year in self confined meditation.

In my opinion you are, yes; that was a shift in perspective.
I find that it is of great importance to try and associate with the state of awareness and feeling at this time, to become aware of the shift in your own conciousness, so as to recognise ones state of conciousness as moving.

Which, it would appear that you are.

:)

praNAma

mana

yajvan
27 April 2012, 07:07 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


No because I was paying attention to her in a way I had not done before.
At the end of the day , it is all about paying attention. It is about ever-refreshed attention. You have said it well. It is when this attention is effortless, easy , yet fully alert and calm that insights and connections come.

praṇām

Eastern Mind
27 April 2012, 07:32 AM
Vannakkam rog: I will mostly just echo what others have said. Certainly it seems to me you're approaching things correctly. Of course, being egocentric, 'correctly' might just mean 'as I approach things'.

I would hesitate to try to 'force' anything. There is wisdom in taking it slowly. Learning to sit still, do crazy penances, austerities, a ton of scriptural reading, a lot of yoga, etc, can bring on a sense of expectation that may not be met. Then one meets with disappointment. All in due time, as they say. Sometimes those flashes of insight, or shifts in consciousness come at the most unexpected times.

An analogy for this might be the 100M sprint. Coaches work on their athletes, after a certain point of expertise, to relax. It seems ironic that a sprinter, who needs to literally explode with all sinews and muscles trained, into full acceleration, also needs to relax.

Waiting for more of your long-winded posts. (Seriously)

Aum Namasivaya

rog
27 April 2012, 09:00 AM
Vannakkam EM and all. (I have just looked up Vannakkam's meaning)

I am enjoying this forum because it seems lively. I posted on a few others and I had advice today about how to perform what I think is called puja. I intentionally won't say 'worship' because that word is tied up in my mind with ideas of falsehood and deceit.

The advice was;
"The easiest way to progress in current times is chanting the Name of God as per our religion of birth. If you are not interested in chanting as per your religion of birth, we can offer a Hindu chant that is more Universal. This would be the most sincere way to worship as a Hindu."

I sent this reply.....

Thank you for the answers you offer, your advice is helpful to me.
I do not think you are wrong as from your POV this advice is pure and wise for anyone who carries a positive feeling about the name of 'God' in their culture.
I feel the name of God in my 'religion of birth' is Jesus. For so many years I have equated this vibration to represent disappointment, falsehood and many negative emotions. I think it would be a challenging and confusing experience for me to chant that name whereas if I use traditional Hindu words which are fresh to me to express my new realisations, the sounds are not tainted and are unlikely to reroute my mind back in to darkness.
I can see as I grow there may come a time to do puja for Jesus but it is wrong thinking in my POV to imagine that a name linked to a deluded meaning for 'God' is the way to go when there are names which are as fresh to me as my Dharma realisation.
I stress that I know the name or image of Jesus is not a deluded image per se for anyone for whom it represents goodness, Oneness, Brahman etc but its not for me.
OM_

Strangely I am finding great comfort in the number 10......a totally bizarre thing to have said only a month ago!
I am no mathematician and I'm using it in a poetic sense rather than mathematical (strap in and stay with me here)..............

Through understanding the basics of Dharma and receiving a spark of realisation in some Hindu teaching, I had an overwhelming moment of clarity which went something like this.......but of course my words will be insufficient......

I was contemplating Brahman, Oneness and 'bliss'. It occurred to me that bliss, Oneness, is both in a pure state of stillness and infinitely bounteous at the same 'time'.
I realised that the number zero is absolute and pure, indivisible and unchanging so much so that it isn't really a number!
As soon as you move away from zero on any scale, lets say to '1' or 'minus 1' you instantly have infinite possibility! Any shift away from zero even just as far as 1 intrinsically contains infinite subdivisions (fractions or fractals however you like to conceive it).
Each infinite fraction (point of consciousness) is an intrinsic part of the 1 it makes up and yet it is also 1 (a unit) in its own right.
So I feel that the number '10' conveys this intellectual thought into a feeling as I use it to represent a visualised form of this realisation.
I think its the same as OM followed by silence.
To me the '1' represents all that is manifest, every object, every atom, every thought or feeling or incident, every name and every universe and every realm.
None of this can be if it is not dimensionally relative to zero. In other words, you can't have '1' on a scale until you have 'zero' to begin with.
Zero can exist on its own but a unit needs zero before it can be. So without the infinite indivisible source of Brahman nothing can ever or could ever manifest in any dimension.
I'm using this analogy of linear distance but I feel this applies to every dimension, time, space or manifest expression of any kind.

Like all metaphors it has its limitations but it has helped me

I am not doing Puja to '10' because even though I am using it to conceptualise Brahman, it is too soon for me to be so 'abstract'. I think this is why Hindu 'Gods' are manifest in common and familiar form which eases the mind towards pathways of realisation. Also I'd be mixing my metaphors!

I suppose in the final analysis you are 100% correct. The real God of my culture is not 'Jesus' at all, it is Science and Mathematics and look at me, I'm using it as a focus because it carried vibes of certainty and truth - Cosmic!
Ha ha ha ha....even while writing this I have shifted from being convinced you are wrong to realising how perfect your advice is......the only thing that changed was my understanding


Thankyou

Rog.

I am realising I need to calm down a bit on the meditational side of Dharma and balance it with some action.
Today I was home alone and I lit two candles and offered a gold celtic coin I found to my Ganesh by placing it in front of him. I did this after meditating on the meaning of gold which I will explain just now. I just repeated "Sri Ganesh" which I used to get a feeling of sustaining and clearing the way.

It was weird as if I was forcing it a bit,

my fearful ego said "stop being ridiculous and sit down",

my fretful conscience said "you're only doing this to be a smarty pants and its all a pretentious show of ego",

my confident atman said "trust me because this wisdom you are trying to connect with has stood the test of time for millions of souls and comes from the same source as that you have attained and know to be real"

On gold......I go metal detecting as a hobby and I have now found 3 gold celtic coins :D

I will never sell them unless I am desperate because my appreciation of them is honestly not financial. It is magical to pick it out of the ground and know it was dropped over 2000 years ago and it looks identical. It has lain there pristine while civilisations has risen and fallen and now you have it in your hand.
I felt like this before I found Dharma but only a month ago the idea of offering a gold coin to a god would be the most ignorant stupid and blind act of moronic religiosity.

In light of Dharma I see that the physical matter which we see as the metal gold is like all matter in that it is sustained throughout its existence through an aspect of Oneness which is aware. Therefore this awareness (Oneness / Brahman) has chosen to sustain this matter above all other common elements He manifests and to do so He is 'sustaining' gold and moreover renders it beautiful to our worldly senses aside from any financial value. It follows therefore that it is a physical aspect of Brahman's power to sustain and radite beauty perpetually.

Its meaning is not money to me so now in light of the above realisation it is not only logical but also very satisfying to give it to 'Ganesh' in 'Puja' which I feel is more an 'acknowledgement' than a 'worship'.

I am very aware suddenly of how much of my posts are 'I' 'I' 'I', me me me.
This is worrying me that part of my intention on the forum is to be noticed and get attention - ego rush!

but I am gaining so much by reading also and although lengthy I assure you my posts are a fraction of what is occurring inside me just now so once again -
Thank you and please pull no punches with any replies as like above when I think you are wrong it might still take me forward to a place where I catch up with you even on one tiny point.

Rog

Eastern Mind
27 April 2012, 09:23 AM
Vannakkam: Gold is considered very auspicious within SD. 24 carat stuff.

There are better places to get advice on how to do a puja. :)

Aum Namasivaya

Mana
27 April 2012, 11:24 AM
Namaste rog,

I am inspired by your enthusiasm! :) And I share your love of numbers, I see that you are considering the notion of infinity:

शून्य = zUnya = zero

अणु = aNu = atom, minute

You will love fractals!

On meditation it is worth noting that, and this is of the utmost importance, Practise in early morning and at night fall; helps to regulate our body clocks and keep us on the right path.



praNAma

mana

yajvan
27 April 2012, 11:27 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté rog



In light of Dharma Rog
You have mentioned dharma several times in your posts above. A noble endevor. It would perhaps serve you well to get comfortble with this term as it has several facets that are rewarding... let me offer one:

dharma धर्म - this word is rooted dhṛ meaning that which upholds, supports, preserves. It is a basic functional quality of this universe and many times see it as the quality of viṣṇu, He that uplifts, preserves and supports.
It is almost talking the basic physical laws of nature that allow this full functioning universe to exist. At this level it is beyond philosophy.

Now let's add in the notion of sanātana dharma. This sanātana means eternal , perpetual , permanent , everlasting. So sanātana dharma is that which uplifts and supports eternally. This sanātana dharma is also called ārṣa dharma.

This ārṣa means 'derived from ṛṣi-s' - the great seers, who have viewed and experienced the essence of creation (sattā). From here our values arise - from here different schools of thought manifest.


praṇām

yajvan
27 April 2012, 11:45 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté mana



शून्य = zUnya = zero
I can see how we would say śūnya is zero. It can be called bindu or mark like a dot , defined (also) as zero.

Yet as suspected śūnya has so much more to offer in terms of its definition. In various schools it is considered void, hollow , barren, empty. If we use the femine gender, śūnyā́ is a barren woman. If we call out śūnye , it means a lonely place - we can see the connection.
If one says aśūnyaṃ it means void of results , ineffectual.

Yet this śūnya has many spiritual implications as one considers looking at wake, dream, sleep and this śūnya condition that might be experienced. Yet we can leave that for another time.

praṇām

rog
27 April 2012, 01:14 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté rog


You have mentioned dharma several times in your posts above. A noble endevor. It would perhaps serve you well to get comfortble with this term as it has several facets that are rewarding... let me offer one:

dharma धर्म - this word is rooted dhṛ meaning that which upholds, supports, preserves. It is a basic functional quality of this universe and many times see it as the quality of viṣṇu, He that uplifts, preserves and supports.
It is almost talking the basic physical laws of nature that allow this full functioning universe to exist. At this level it is beyond philosophy.

Now let's add in the notion of sanātana dharma. This sanātana means eternal , perpetual , permanent , everlasting. So sanātana dharma is that which uplifts and supports eternally. This sanātana dharma is also called ārṣa dharma.

This ārṣa means 'derived from ṛṣi-s' - the great seers, who have viewed and experienced the essence of creation (sattā). From here our values arise - from here different schools of thought manifest.


praṇām

Vannakkam yajvan,

I am trying to be careful in my use of new words. I realise how powerful words are and how a word like 'religion' vibrates as a different reality for an atheist and a Hindu, one invokes a thought and feeling of falsity and the other invokes feelings of confidence in the reality of awareness of Brahman.

I am trying to appreciate the fullness of meaning in the Sanskrit words before I use them or I risk polluting them with misunderstanding.

I use 'Dharma' to represent my sense of finding a definite pathway rather than looking at 'Hinduism' in a purely intellectual way as I did at first sight.

Once I made that shift I felt 'entitled' to call myself a 'Hindu' but that word still feels surreal when applied to myself because of the erroneous connection in my mind of that word representing 'Indian Culture' or 'a religion' which then connects with feelings of falsity.

I read the meaning of Sanatana Dharma and I feel blessed that I had never heard these words before because I can use them to label my experience of 'realising Hinduism is true' that I have experienced recently with no prior misunderstandings clouding that expression of meaning.

I'm posting my explanation because as you have taken the trouble to speak to me I want you to understand my meaning as best as possible :)

I will make mistakes in my understanding of new words so please do let me know as I want to keep these words 'pure' in their meaning.

I love the way some words can only be explained by several english words. I find this helps to perceive the word more as a feeling because it is the expression of several aspects all at once.

I got my use of the word Dharma from this I read from another Hindu resource-

Sanatana is:
Eternal
Perennial
Never Beginning nor Ending
Abiding
Universal
Ever-present
Unceasing
Natural
Enduring

Dharma is:
Harmony
The Way
Righteousness
Compassion
Natural Law
Essential Nature
Morality
Truth
Teachings
Tradition
Philosophy
Order
Flow
Spirituality
Religion
Wisdom
Purest Insight
Divine Conformity
Cosmic Norm
Blueprint
Inherent Nature
Intrinsic Nature
Law of Being
Duty

thanks for chatting everyone:) if I lived in India or near a temple I could go and chat but you guys are my only Hindu friends just now - Thanks:)

Rog

Mana
27 April 2012, 01:20 PM
Namaste yajvan,

Thank you for your kind consideration and clarification, your explanations are superb; I look forwards to hearing more of your wisdom on these matters.

Such a beautiful topic ...

praNAma

mana

yajvan
27 April 2012, 01:27 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté rog



I am trying to appreciate the fullness of meaning in the Sanskrit words before I use them or I risk polluting them with misunderstanding.

Let me offer this , as it too will assist you in understanding the richness of sanātana dharma and our śāstra-s. ( This is from another string you may run into here on HDF) .


There are 3 levels/ways of understanding the śāstra-s and the words , ideas, symbols that are offered therein:

abhidhā or the conventional meaning i.e. the literal meaning
lakṣaṇā or indirectly via sign, symbol, inference.
vyañjanā or the figurative expression more intuitively offered some may call implied indication , yet is on a higher level of meaning.There are very fancy names I can offer you from a definition/gramatical POV yet this will only co-mingle too many words and will have the ability to blur one's clear thinking on this matter. Yet let me do it by example.


What is key in some of our āgama-s ¹ is the notion of the heart (hṛdaya). Now lets take it 3 ways:
1. the conventional meaning is that of the organ the pumps blood and is located approx. in the center of the chest.
2. indirectly the heart has come to be known as the center of emotions and feeling.
3. Yet the 3rd way to understand this from a spiritual point of view. This heart (hṛdaya) is considered the ~center ~ of one's own being, a vital part of ones existence and in this case it is referring to pure awareness.

The authors ( we can call seers, or kavi, kāvya i.e. those mature and gifted with insight) then use these approaches to maximize their offering of knowledge to the inquirier/aspriant.
Now pending one's level of consciousness and their ability to comprehend, these 3 levels then come into play. Many times there is confusion when one reads something and misses the real subtle meaning ( saṁketa) and take it literally.
One example of this in our śāstra-s is the churning of the ocean of milk; using a serpent and a mountain. On each side of this serpent there are devatā-s and asura-s doing the churning ( pulling the serpent back-and-forth). Now how is that to be understood ?
There is deep significant meaning here (that we will leave for another time), but one must understand there is a teaching/offer that is way beyond the literal meaning. For this deepest meaning we need proper guidence and the right teacher. This is the same with many of our śāstra-s.

To the causal observer there is only dis-belief or thinking this is myth. Yet to the teacher with enlightened vision there is a wealth of knowledge that resides in the stories and allegories that can be departed to the seeker.


praṇām


words

śāstra - a body of teaching (in general) of scripture , science and the like.
āgama-s - those sacred works/doctrines that involve the wisdom , worship and knowledge of śiva and śakti.

yajvan
28 April 2012, 11:55 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


There are 3 levels/ways of understanding the śāstra-s and the words , ideas, symbols that are offered therein:

abhidhā or the conventional meaning i.e. the literal meaning
lakṣaṇā or indirectly via sign, symbol, inference.
vyañjanā or the figurative expression more intuitively offered some may call implied indication , yet is on a higher level of meaning.There is another way of looking at these 3 levels that the śāstra-s address. This ~other way~ does not mean different, just an additional , natural extention to the 3 above:


human level of being - the human condition and experiences
divine level of existence
the ritual or yāga or yajña¹ levelWe take note that the yāga or yajña level brings the human condition to the divine level. So within the śāstra-s¹ these 3 levels are discussed.

One must be aware that yāga or yajña can be outward or inward. The outward action is that of pūjā¹ which one mostly thinks of. Yet this outward action is to be simulated within inward experience. It is the development of the inward qualities of the human that raises one to that of the divine.


praṇām

words

yāga - rooted in yaj meaning offering, oblation
yajña - act of worship or devotion , offering , oblation
pūjā - worship , respect , reverence , veneration , homage to superiors & Supreme
śāstra - a body of teaching (in general) of scripture , science and the like.
āgama-s - those sacred works/doctrines that involve the wisdom , worship and knowledge of śiva and śakti.

rog
28 April 2012, 01:56 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté rog



Let me offer this..........
There are 3 levels/ways of understanding the śāstra-s and the words , ideas, symbols that are offered therein:

[size=3]abhidhā or the conventional meaning i.e. the literal meaning
lakṣaṇā or indirectly via sign, symbol, inference.
vyañjanā or the figurative expression more intuitively offered some may call implied indication , yet is on a higher level of meaning.There are very fancy names I can offer you from a definition/gramatical POV yet this will only co-mingle too many words and will have the ability to blur one's clear thinking on this matter. Yet let me do it by example.


What is key in some of our āgama-s ¹ is the notion of the heart (hṛdaya). Now lets take it 3 ways:
1. the conventional meaning is that of the organ the pumps blood and is located approx. in the center of the chest.
2. indirectly the heart has come to be known as the center of emotions and feeling.
3. Yet the 3rd way to understand this from a spiritual point of view. This heart (hṛdaya) is considered the ~center ~ of one's own being, a vital part of ones existence and in this case it is referring to pure awareness.

.............

To the causal observer there is only dis-belief or thinking this is myth. Yet to the teacher with enlightened vision there is a wealth of knowledge that resides in the stories and allegories that can be departed to the seeker.


pra[FONT=Tahoma]ṇām


words

śāstra - a body of teaching (in general) of scripture , science and the like.
āgama-s - those sacred works/doctrines that involve the wisdom , worship and knowledge of śiva and śakti.

Thanks Yavjan, I think I understand you well.

As I have made progress I have noticed ego sneaking in through the door of pride! ......starting to get all puffed up with myself .....how clever I'm becoming!

I noticed this was 'wrong-thinking' so I decided to 'meditate' on this issue.

I realised that until I found this path thanks to the 'external' guidance of Sanatana Dharma, I had only made very slow progress, finding myself often up blind alleys. Now I feel I am being guided confidently forward by a new friend (SD/Brahman) who I am trusting more each day, into very exciting new landscapes I didn't previously believe were attainable.


Its fun to share the view..............


I appreciate you pointing me to these three words, they helped me;

abhidhā, the literal meaning
lakṣaṇā sign, symbol, inference.
vyañjanā figurative expression.. intuitively offered, some may call implied indication... on a higher level of meaning.

As I read this I thought of a road sign,

abhidhā....it is in material reality so even the most ignorant creature can experience it like an animal that just sees its material form of a metal pole with a light on it.

lakṣaṇā....now I understand the sign is telling me to stop or go or some other instruction and I choose to obey or not, thinking I am in control, but I don't yet fully comprehend the third level....

vyañjanā....I fully comprehend and appreciate the meaning of the sign as the life saving information it truly represents and I look back in disbelief that I could ever have been so reckless to ignore such a vital instruction. :)

Your post led me to consider this;

I see that all manifestations are One - I now call it Brahman.

I think I'm realising that everything is an extrapolation of something more fundamental, in any dimension, which gives the impression of infinite diversity and growth but its all One.

This is my effort to paint what I see in my heart (atman) (feel compellingly to be true) the words will fall short....

I now see the reason for our delusion is that we experience each aspect of Brahman as a different form of manifestation simultaneously. An important point here is that material reality and time and space are each merely aspects of Brahman. These each start of as merely a concept manifesting out of Om. As Brahman is the One who manifests space and time from Himself, they are in Him and not He in them.

There are however infinite other aspects of Brahman emanating out of the One and forming the One Brahman.

So where am I and who am I in this continuum of manifestation?

Well, everything that can be experienced no matter how 'solid' or 'abstract' is the reverberence of OM.

'My' consciousness (experience) is that part of the Consciousness of Brahman which experiences each aspect from a unique POV simultaneously. We are that consciousness which manifests to become all things but at the point of manifestation we are by definition at the edge of his creation experiencing the full confusion of His abundance..........but of course it's only confusing from that POV.

This image helps me conceptualise this construct of Brahman. The fractal shape is the manifestation with the 'origin' at the centre and the consciousness having the experience is the blue background. (In the final resolution in the centre, the shape and the blue are ONE)

Our individual experience is like that of a thread within the blue which touches each aspect (wheel-spoke in the pic) in only one place.

How we experience each aspect is as a result of decisions and choices ( karma) which denotes how close to Brahman our 'personal' consciousness is. Each step towards simpler truth exchanges countless preconceived delusions into one more refined truth. When we're wiser we realise that the individual realisation of 'truth' which was so amazing and refreshing was actually yet another unit of multiple delusion (but less deluded than before).....and so it goes on eternally. Its not that any one fractal is more true than another be it closer or further from Brahman, its just that its only absolute truth on its own, the further away from Brahman the more fractals make up the same aspect so we have a more diffuse understanding whereas towards Brahman each aspect becomes more refined and of fewer elements to comprehend in relation to one another, so its a 'simpler' or 'purer' truth.

http://www.boingboing.net/images/_newsoffice_2006_fractal-enlarged.jpg

Because Brahman is in command of time and space simply through His own expression, His manifestation of OM, (all that can be experienced) is beyond terms like 'in the beginning' or 'eternal' which is a relative term.

I am the experience, the application of His consciousness to every aspect emanating from OM.

So why the delusion?

Because as each multiple of fractals in this picture spills from the last like Brahman's infinite expansion, every aspect is identical to its point of origin but in an infinitely multiplied form.

We see this in every aspect of our experience. Universe expanding, time progressing, life forms growing and multiplying.........

......more abstractly, when facing a decision there are several, sometimes innumerable options of choice in one direction which take us away from Brahman but only one option for truth which takes us the right way.

Sometimes I have no idea which choice is for Brahman but usually the choice is clear. Any decision against the way back to Him is what we perceive as wrong action. Taking our experience to ever more confusion.

My overall experience as an entity, is from the combined experience of consciousness simultaneously experiencing all the branches of Brahman's manifest expression of Himself.

As an entity I must simultaneously work my way back to the centre.

This journey starts off by experiencing every one of His infinite aspects from a POV so far from him that his pure Oneness has been split into a confusing multitude of aspects each one splitting again and again until his manifestation is described as the banyan tree.

We then fail to see that each fractal is an identical copy of Brahman. We see each of the infinite 'this' and 'that' as moments or facts or words or separate experiences all blended together. A very confusing position.

We are then held in this apparently detached situation, swept along distracted by the perceived melee of time and sound, sight and thought, feelings and emotions, filling our consciousness constantly distracting and hypnotising us.

In this condition life just seems to look inexplicable and increasingly confusing.

I think the answer is to reverse ones attention. Stop and choose to turn away from ever more entangled reality and find the simpler truth in everything.

Once I grasped this I immediately began to see opportunities everywhere. In everything I heard or saw I recognised a choice of direction from entanglement in one direction or truth / purity /simplicity / Brahman in the other.

I think we can only shift our attention closer to Brahman by making one choice at a time. If we move towards Him (incrementally as we perceive it), by our actions 'karma', our perspective changes for the better and we know more of the truth of everything or we turn our attention from Him moment by moment, choice by choice so that simple truth looks more and more confused and unfathomable.

As I move my attention in the right way the inevitable outcome 'logically' must be as promised in Sanatana Dharma that ones own POV moves so much closer to God that all aspects gradually merge back into One - Brahman.



The further I go along the road of Sanatana Dharma, I realise that I haven't discovered any of this. It was already there and was always a road sign to the truth. Until recently I saw it as abhidha, I now am fully in laksana regarding the teaching and I am having increasingly frequent glimpses of vyanjana.

I think I need a cup of tea now:D

Mana
28 April 2012, 02:09 PM
Namaste Rog,

Nice, enjoy that cup of tea!

:)

praNAma

mana

Aum namah Śivāya
28 April 2012, 03:37 PM
It is said by Swami Lakshman Ju, that 15 minutes of meditation whilst remaining in the real world (karma yoga) is the equivalent of a year in self confined meditation.

नमस्ते Mana,

Can you explain this concept of meditating while in the world? It sounds intriguing, and may be similar to something I have done at times.

Perhaps this is it? Today I was playing the piano. Suddenly I had the urge to no longer be the one playing the music, but to be the music itself. It was a deep experience, and the music flowed so much more easily, and was more expressive. But it wasn't about playing it, or being good at playing it, even though I was practicing for a recital on Monday, but it was just about being the music, as an expression of God. It was really interesting, and now I want to continue to play in that way. Perhaps this is something like what you mean.

Even after that experience, i feel like "I" am the empty vessel that God is acting through, God interacting with God through the dream of the world. So there is a supreme detachment, but also an enjoyment of all things. I'm not sure how else to explain it.

ॐ नमः शिवाय

OM

Aum namah Śivāya
28 April 2012, 03:43 PM
Thanks Yavjan, I think I understand you well.

As I have made progress I have noticed ego sneaking in through the door of pride! ......starting to get all puffed up with myself .....how clever I'm becoming!

I noticed this was 'wrong-thinking' so I decided to 'meditate' on this issue.

I realised that until I found this path thanks to the 'external' guidance of Sanatana Dharma, I had only made very slow progress, finding myself often up blind alleys. Now I feel I am being guided confidently forward by a new friend (SD/Brahman) who I am trusting more each day, into very exciting new landscapes I didn't previously believe were attainable.


Its fun to share the view..............


I appreciate you pointing me to these three words, they helped me;

abhidhā, the literal meaning
lakṣaṇā sign, symbol, inference.
vyañjanā figurative expression.. intuitively offered, some may call implied indication... on a higher level of meaning.

As I read this I thought of a road sign,

abhidhā....it is in material reality so even the most ignorant creature can experience it like an animal that just sees its material form of a metal pole with a light on it.

lakṣaṇā....now I understand the sign is telling me to stop or go or some other instruction and I choose to obey or not, thinking I am in control, but I don't yet fully comprehend the third level....

vyañjanā....I fully comprehend and appreciate the meaning of the sign as the life saving information it truly represents and I look back in disbelief that I could ever have been so reckless to ignore such a vital instruction. :)

Your post led me to consider this;

I see that all manifestations are One - I now call it Brahman.

I think I'm realising that everything is an extrapolation of something more fundamental, in any dimension, which gives the impression of infinite diversity and growth but its all One.

This is my effort to paint what I see in my heart (atman) (feel compellingly to be true) the words will fall short....

I now see the reason for our delusion is that we experience each aspect of Brahman as a different form of manifestation simultaneously. An important point here is that material reality and time and space are each merely aspects of Brahman. These each start of as merely a concept manifesting out of Om. As Brahman is the One who manifests space and time from Himself, they are in Him and not He in them.

There are however infinite other aspects of Brahman emanating out of the One and forming the One Brahman.

So where am I and who am I in this continuum of manifestation?

Well, everything that can be experienced no matter how 'solid' or 'abstract' is the reverberence of OM.

'My' consciousness (experience) is that part of the Consciousness of Brahman which experiences each aspect from a unique POV simultaneously. We are that consciousness which manifests to become all things but at the point of manifestation we are by definition at the edge of his creation experiencing the full confusion of His abundance..........but of course it's only confusing from that POV.

This image helps me conceptualise this construct of Brahman. The fractal shape is the manifestation with the 'origin' at the centre and the consciousness having the experience is the blue background. (In the final resolution in the centre, the shape and the blue are ONE)

Our individual experience is like that of a thread within the blue which touches each aspect (wheel-spoke in the pic) in only one place.

How we experience each aspect is as a result of decisions and choices ( karma) which denotes how close to Brahman our 'personal' consciousness is. Each step towards simpler truth exchanges countless preconceived delusions into one more refined truth. When we're wiser we realise that the individual realisation of 'truth' which was so amazing and refreshing was actually yet another unit of multiple delusion (but less deluded than before).....and so it goes on eternally. Its not that any one fractal is more true than another be it closer or further from Brahman, its just that its only absolute truth on its own, the further away from Brahman the more fractals make up the same aspect so we have a more diffuse understanding whereas towards Brahman each aspect becomes more refined and of fewer elements to comprehend in relation to one another, so its a 'simpler' or 'purer' truth.

http://www.boingboing.net/images/_newsoffice_2006_fractal-enlarged.jpg

Because Brahman is in command of time and space simply through His own expression, His manifestation of OM, (all that can be experienced) is beyond terms like 'in the beginning' or 'eternal' which is a relative term.

I am the experience, the application of His consciousness to every aspect emanating from OM.

So why the delusion?

Because as each multiple of fractals in this picture spills from the last like Brahman's infinite expansion, every aspect is identical to its point of origin but in an infinitely multiplied form.

We see this in every aspect of our experience. Universe expanding, time progressing, life forms growing and multiplying.........

......more abstractly, when facing a decision there are several, sometimes innumerable options of choice in one direction which take us away from Brahman but only one option for truth which takes us the right way.

Sometimes I have no idea which choice is for Brahman but usually the choice is clear. Any decision against the way back to Him is what we perceive as wrong action. Taking our experience to ever more confusion.

My overall experience as an entity, is from the combined experience of consciousness simultaneously experiencing all the branches of Brahman's manifest expression of Himself.

As an entity I must simultaneously work my way back to the centre.

This journey starts off by experiencing every one of His infinite aspects from a POV so far from him that his pure Oneness has been split into a confusing multitude of aspects each one splitting again and again until his manifestation is described as the banyan tree.

We then fail to see that each fractal is an identical copy of Brahman. We see each of the infinite 'this' and 'that' as moments or facts or words or separate experiences all blended together. A very confusing position.

We are then held in this apparently detached situation, swept along distracted by the perceived melee of time and sound, sight and thought, feelings and emotions, filling our consciousness constantly distracting and hypnotising us.

In this condition life just seems to look inexplicable and increasingly confusing.

I think the answer is to reverse ones attention. Stop and choose to turn away from ever more entangled reality and find the simpler truth in everything.

Once I grasped this I immediately began to see opportunities everywhere. In everything I heard or saw I recognised a choice of direction from entanglement in one direction or truth / purity /simplicity / Brahman in the other.

I think we can only shift our attention closer to Brahman by making one choice at a time. If we move towards Him (incrementally as we perceive it), by our actions 'karma', our perspective changes for the better and we know more of the truth of everything or we turn our attention from Him moment by moment, choice by choice so that simple truth looks more and more confused and unfathomable.

As I move my attention in the right way the inevitable outcome 'logically' must be as promised in Sanatana Dharma that ones own POV moves so much closer to God that all aspects gradually merge back into One - Brahman.



The further I go along the road of Sanatana Dharma, I realise that I haven't discovered any of this. It was already there and was always a road sign to the truth. Until recently I saw it as abhidha, I now am fully in laksana regarding the teaching and I am having increasingly frequent glimpses of vyanjana.

I think I need a cup of tea now:D

नमस्ते,

Here's a story about pride:

I was once practicing Hinduism. As you, it completely changed my life. However, as you see, pride is a very tricky trap, and I got trapped in it.

So, having fallen into that trap, I rejected the path that had gotten me to where i was. Then it seems that God said, "OK, if you think you can do it by yourself, then go ahead and try." Then a very dark year passed, where I did exactly that—try to get back to where i was, but only kept slipping more and more.

So now, I very fully and humbly accept the eternal path, and I try to be very vigilant about not allowing pride to sneak in. It is difficult, of course, but I've definitely learned my lesson.

I heard a story of someone who worked on being humble to such a degree, that he realized that he was proud of his humility. :o The ego will hang onto its death grip by any means possible.

ॐ नमः शिवाय

OM

Mana
02 May 2012, 11:41 AM
नमस्ते Mana,

Can you explain this concept of meditating while in the world? It sounds intriguing, and may be similar to something I have done at times.

Perhaps this is it? Today I was playing the piano. Suddenly I had the urge to no longer be the one playing the music, but to be the music itself. It was a deep experience, and the music flowed so much more easily, and was more expressive. But it wasn't about playing it, or being good at playing it, even though I was practicing for a recital on Monday, but it was just about being the music, as an expression of God. It was really interesting, and now I want to continue to play in that way. Perhaps this is something like what you mean.

Even after that experience, i feel like "I" am the empty vessel that God is acting through, God interacting with God through the dream of the world. So there is a supreme detachment, but also an enjoyment of all things. I'm not sure how else to explain it.

ॐ नमः शिवाय

OM

Namaste Aum namah Śivāya,

I am terribly sorry not to have responded sooner, I only just noticed your posting.

Thank you for you kind enquiry.

Your practis sounds excellent, I use the Guitar and singing for this very purpose, it detaches the ego completely when done well, I find that it is Sivas attention to the micro phrasing which makes all the difference, all is essentially in the timing. This is not to be calculated or controlled and is only achieved by letting go, it must simply flow.

There should be no urge, just let go.I fix my mind on Śiva, by letting go in this way.

The same is true at work, so when I meditate at work I try to maintain this state of mind, God conciousness. If I try to think and calculate all that I do I must revert to this mental process, which demands that "I" is present, of course "I" is there but I am relaxed but always thinking, daydreaming. So if any dispute arises I remain impartial, yet in keeping full conscience in this way, without The "I" wishing to control. We see Śivas will; just as with the music, I find that it is in the timing.

But don't be afraid to think, one must think; think of Śiva. Do you see his 1000 forms?

I hope this makes some sense.


praNAma

mana

Aum namah Śivāya
02 May 2012, 12:03 PM
Namaste Aum namah Śivāya,

I am terribly sorry not to have responded sooner, I only just noticed your posting.

Thank you for you kind enquiry.

Your practis sounds excellent, I use the Guitar and singing for this very purpose, it detaches the ego completely when done well, I find that it is Sivas attention to the micro phrasing which makes all the difference, all is essentially in the timing. This is not to be calculated or controlled and is only achieved by letting go, it must simply flow.

There should be no urge, just let go.I fix my mind on Śiva, by letting go in this way.

The same is true at work, so when I meditate at work I try to maintain this state of mind, God conciousness. If I try to think and calculate all that I do I must revert to this mental process, which demands that "I" is present, of course "I" is there but I am relaxed but always thinking, daydreaming. So if any dispute arises I remain impartial, yet in keeping full conscience in this way, without The "I" wishing to control. We see Śivas will; just as with the music, I find that it is in the timing.

But don't be afraid to think, one must think; think of Śiva. Do you see his 1000 forms?

I hope this makes some sense.


praNAma

mana

नमस्ते Mana,

Thank you for your beautiful post. I think that anything we do can be made beautiful and holy just by focusing it on God, or seeing God as the true doer.

Paramhaṃsa Yogānanda said to cross the word "work" out of our vocabulary, and to replace it with "service." "Work" has the connotation of a menial task for no high purpose, and so we resist it. But when it is service to God, as all things should be in life, then it is infinitely easier, and increases our devotion to God, and may even help with our karma. I've been trying to live as though everything, animate and inanimate, are made of the atoms of God's Consciousness, and so giving all due respect and reverence.

I am glad that you also enjoy music. Sometimes I enjoy my "meditations" while playing the piano better than my real sitting meditation. It's all for God. :D

ॐ नमः शिवाय

OM