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yajvan
15 May 2012, 07:57 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

As I read the śiva sūtra-s again (and again) a greater appreciation of the expansion of consciousness grows in my understanding.

It seems to me when many talk of consciousness and its higher states, one tends to look at it as higher or lower. The notion of layers that may look like this:
______________
______________
______________

One goes from one ~state~ to another. This is stimulated by people's ideas of going in-and-out of various levels of awareness; some may use the term transcend, and this suggests a downward movement, no different then ~submerging~ into more refined levels of consciousness.

Yet the more I consider this and connect the dots of what I have been taught and studied ( and on occasion experienced), it seems much more linear in nature looking more like this:

>_______________________________>

It is my POV and appreciation that consciousness runs from differentiated to undifferentiated. That is, from the differences humans find in the world around them to that of a universality of undifferentiated wholeness that a realized-being would experience. One could say it is from fragmented consciousness to unfragmented.

What are the fragments ? That of diversity of wake, dream and sleep states to an unfragmented state that is considered śivavyāpti.
This word śivavyāpti is śiva + vyāpti. Śiva is that wholeness of consciousness. We have a wonderful definition for śiva based upon the root śī defined as 'in whom all things lie'; vyāpti is defined as pervasion, omnipresence , ubiquity, full, inseparable.

So,śivavyāpti is the pervasion of which all thing lie within the Being of śiva. Even differentiated/fragmented consciousness of the human condition - there is no place it is not. Hence this line of consciousness runs from fragmented >_____________________>unfragmented, a continuum.

What can we undersand about this model if we take to be a reasonable proximity to the truth ? It suggests that along the way of this line there are various experiences of awareness one may have as consciousness moves ( expands, unfolds) to this level śivavyāpti.

For this we will take up a few ideas in the next post...

You are welcomed to offer your opinion on this model and perhaps compare and contrast different views of thought if you wish.

praṇām

Mana
15 May 2012, 11:26 PM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste yajvan,


I find this model to be a great description; it is so true that we do not see these changes easily.
It is rather like the changing of light from one colour to the next in a rainbow, as the frequency of vibration increases, light gradually changes colour.
It is our Human minds that separate the light spectrum in to colours, that need to box and class every thing, and sets the limits of that which we can and can not see; but the wavelength increases incrementally Bindu by Bindu. ______________________

This is, to my mind, very close to the notion of Δt in calculus, for any budding mathematicians this might give a good idea as to how these thoughts might compare.

The interesting thing is how ______________________ appears, in relation to the ebb and flow of every day life the guna, it would seem that there is a process of differentiation (calculation of the rate of change) which creates a counter balance and thus undifferentiated wholeness, by an annulation of this movement, the effect of which is to remove the friction of the motion of all that would otherwise cause angst.

Rather like three phase rotation, becoming perfectly synchronised to give a constant signal; one which does not burn the wire.

http://www.indiana.edu/%7Eemusic/acoustics/Fig30.gif

I have not yet finished reading the Siva sutra, page by page as it unfolds, I am finding that there is perfect harmony with thought. I await with great anticipation as I have order the audio version, how wonderful it will be to hear the Sanskrit verse and thus the pronunciation of these fantastic words which describe so concisely that, spoken by such a Master as Swami LakshmanJoo!

The audio will facilitate the learning of all these these new words, to better help to understand and describe life's flow and conciousness.


pranāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Aum Namaḥ Śivāya

ZarryT
16 May 2012, 07:30 AM
A possible alteration to your model would essentially be to represent it as a wave. At the peak it is consciousness of consciousness, at the trough it is conscious of life and suffering. There are no higher or lower planes, the line just wiggles.

yajvan
16 May 2012, 08:37 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namastÚ


Thank you both for your ideas that you offer...
When I think of this continuum of consciousness I tend to think of what people experience every day - wake, dream, sleep. Other levels/degrees of awareness are there at all times, yet the attention falls to wake-dream-sleep.

It is like the electo-magnetic spectrum:
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/gif/electro.gif


We spend all of our awareness in the visible spectum , yet there are other wavelengths there, but we do not ~pick it up~ with our senses.

Like that, it can considered the same going from differentiated consciousness ( the most factured in waking state) to a perfectly balanced whole state that is śivavyāpti, undifferentiated.

More as we continue.

praṇām

yajvan
16 May 2012, 12:13 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

I have mentioned that consciousness is on a continuum. It runs from differentiated to undifferentied, wholeness.

Yet we must keep in mind that if we say wholeness, fullness, śivavyāpti discussed in post one, it MUST include even the fragmented/differentiated components of consciousness to stay true to the fact of being whole and all-inclusive. This consciousness that is whole is also called satatoditam ( from the tantrāloka); It means that which has no pause, no break.

Svāmī lakṣman-jū inform us ' it is breakless and unitary. In samādhi it is there and when samādhi is absent it is there. And in sleep it is there; in each and every state of subjective body it is there'.

So in the differentiated consciousness we experience i.e. wake, dream, and sleep - we can see then it is just an expression of the wholeness, some say a ray of wholeness that shines within that experience of awareness. On one end of the line we have differentated and on the other end of the line we have undifferented.
The range is from individual (bounded) being to universal (unbounded) being; yet the range is still on the same continuum of the line, just like the electro-magnetic spectrum idea offered in post 4 above.

individual___________________________________> Universal
Within individual being we associate with mind (manas); a collection and bundle of thoughts, ideas, feelings, that are fragmented. The mind goes from here to there, it is pulled by sight, sound, taste, feelings and buzzes around like a bee. Within Univeral being we are aligned with unmanā or beyond mind, beyond framentation.

Now the question one must ask, what happens or resides in-between differentiated and undifferentiated; between fragmented and wholeness in this continuum of consciousness ? -------------------------O-----------------------------

This helps us tell the story of one's unfoldment, of sādhana.


praṇām

words
satatoditam - by its components as sat + a-tu + dita. That which really is (sat) + not (a) +to have authority (tu) + bound or divided (dita).
Or that Reality that cannot be bound or divided

Mana
16 May 2012, 12:26 PM
A possible alteration to your model would essentially be to represent it as a wave. At the peak it is consciousness of consciousness, at the trough it is conscious of life and suffering. There are no higher or lower planes, the line just wiggles.
हरिः ओम्


Namaste ZarryT,

That sounds painful to me!

I had hoped to find a three phase diagram rather than two, I fear that my wave picture above is rather lacking the satva guna.

Wave cancellation is elegantly demonstrated within Fourier theorem; this also shows that any signal can be broken down into the sum total of all its smallest parts; sine waves; otherwise said, vibrations or sound.

yajvan, I love to think of how we relate to all that is not visible, undefinable.
The sheer Grace of coincidence, repeating, as the universe conspires to demonstrate to us her beauty; her concealed brilliant inner nature!


pranāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Aum Namaḥ Śivāya

devotee
16 May 2012, 10:44 PM
Namaste Yajvan and Mana,

You both are working on a very good thread ! I would be closely following it. Thanks.

OM

Mana
17 May 2012, 12:18 AM
Now the question one must ask, what happens or resides in-between differentiated and undifferentiated; between fragmented and wholeness in this continuum of consciousness ?


हरिः ओम्


Namaste yajvan,


If I might be so bold as to suggest that a period of fibrillation can exists between these two states; through which one must pass. Rather like the heart as it goes into cardiac arrest.

The self dying, so as to make room for the Self.


pranāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Aum Namaḥ Śivāya

yajvan
17 May 2012, 11:29 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

So now the question.... on this line from differentiated to undifferentiated what are some of the stops?

Let's look at this ~ middle ~ -------------------------O----------------------------
It is my opinion that this middle occurs when one becomes established in the Self or ātman. This is that level of awareness of Self-referral. That is, we relate more to one's own Self, that stillness, silence within , then we do with differentiated consciousness.

This is when the 4th condition ( turīya) of consciousness is groomed in such a way that it does not leave when one opens their eyes. Turīya resides with the aspirant even in activity, in dream and in sleep. It has established itself within one's awareness. Yet one must be mindful
that this is not the final step to one's spiritual unfoldment, but a firm foundation for greater expansion on the path to this undifferentiated level of wholeness¹, of fullness of Being, of śivavyāpti discussed in post one above.

So now we have wake -> dream -> sleep -> turīya -> stabilized turīya or turyātītā caitanya. When this turyātītā caitanya is established it is there during all the other modes of awareness i.e. wake-dream-sleep which is called jāgrat, svapna, and suṣupi respectively. The truth is, turīya has always been within the other levels of awareness as the foundation. Because it is subtle we pass it up each and every day.

One must ask what is the nature and experience one has within this turyātītā caitanya, and are there other levels that are possible that arise on this continuum to śivavyāpti ?

We will take this up in the next post.

praṇām

1. wholeness is described as paripūrṅānuttara = pari+pūrṅā+anuttara


pari = fully , abundantly , richly
pūrṅā = filled, finished , accomplished
anuttara = chief, principle; nothing that can suprass this level

Mana
20 May 2012, 12:45 AM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste yajvan, All


I have felt the urge to express this here, I hope that you can forgive my impertinence ...

This whole topic reminds me distinctly of my first experience of raised or manic energy, and its accompanying realisation and vision
(mathematical in nature) a highly energised state of altered conciousness; how curious a thing it is to find that I am reading and
discovering this here now, along with the other aspects of this winding path ...

I can only bow before this great wisdom in the humble knowledge, that we are all related by this self same force; this divine energy;
warmed by the knowledge that it is Śiva!


I began to develop a thought process, an image in my minds eye:

a finite point, a singularity can not exist, if it has a diameter it must also contain a centre, thus rendering it non finite.

This evolved to:

Any straight line if observed from an infinite distance away can be assumed to be a sine wave or vibration, and a sine wave with
rotation in 3 dimensions a helix. Viewed again from infinitely afar it might become a circle, or rather, a torus. Around which could
be wrapped an infinite number of smaller sine waves, never exceeding the bounded limits of the slightly enlarged shimmering torus.

A torus with a fractal boundary made from 3D sine waves, a vibration; this was my vision of infinity!

A simple mathematical "amuse gueule", which seemed to be pushing my brain and soul towards its limit as its axioms became apparent. Accompanied by; the realisation that
time its self, was fractal in nature.

When I requested a guru or a spiritual guide, to help me with this energy this realisation, I was put into a psychiatric hospital and
d (http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100606/full/news.2010.281.html)rugged with haloperidol. (http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100606/full/news.2010.281.html)

The vision faded as I consequently forgot.

I was 19 at that time and all this was naturally quite a revelation to me; I had become aware of an entire level or dimension of speech
and communication of which I had never been aware of before, a whole new way of looking and I learnt from everything I saw!

Thoughts were confirmed by miraculous coincidence; this was also accompanied by a drastic improvement in musical aptitude, a leap
of improvement, my brain unblocked a whole new level of freedom, which translated to the movement of my fingers; strangely, by its
no longer getting involved. The ego was no longer trying to play; I was just playing.

That was the first occurrence, there have been many more, I have never accepted the Western view that this state of mind is either
wrong, or unhealthy, needing any form of medication, the insight it brings can not be deemed an illness if one adherers to the
sutras of Patañjali, one learns to diffuse and manage this energy, as this state of conciousness flickers into view.

With time I have learnt, due to the recurrences of this mental high tide, to disperse the energy to ground; to ignore its side effects, to
concentrate on God, It does seems to be settling in to a state of equilibrium.

It is very difficult to tell if it is the energy which manifests the vision; or the vision, the energy.
This is however, not a question upon which I now feel the need to ponder.


pranāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Aum Namaḥ Śivāya

Equinox
20 May 2012, 12:11 PM
Hello Mana,

What a mathematical experience! This goes on to show the many ways we become conscious of Shiva.

ZarryT
20 May 2012, 12:54 PM
That sounds painful to me!

And is there not sometimes pain in the swinging of the pendulum between bliss and suffering to which we are all subject?



I had hoped to find a three phase diagram rather than two, I fear that my wave picture above is rather lacking the satva guna.

Wave cancellation is elegantly demonstrated within Fourier theorem; this also shows that any signal can be broken down into the sum total of all its smallest parts; sine waves; otherwise said, vibrations or sound.



The third phase is the one which defines the wave; the parameters which specify how the wave may be broken down.

Mana
21 May 2012, 12:28 AM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste Equinox, ZarryT,

Śiva is in and is every thing; but imagine my joy when I could finally give my experience a name and understand it from within this beautiful tradition!


And is there not sometimes pain in the swinging of the pendulum between bliss and suffering to which we are all subject?

Are we all subject to this? I don't it see this way.

Might there be a 3rd axis to your pendulum? If so, by stopping its swinging motion; might these axis become more akin to a set of gimbals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimbal)?

Are you familiar with the three guna? They are a fascinating subject; a must for any who experience clearly the swinging effect between happiness and sorrow.


pranāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Aum Namaḥ Śivāya

devotee
21 May 2012, 01:46 AM
Namaste Mana,

By reading your experience and your hospitalisation I coudn't help remembering an old story read in my childhood, "The Country of the Blind" where the man with a vision is considered suffering from a serious disease ! so, sad !! :(

OM

ZarryT
21 May 2012, 06:32 AM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste Equinox, ZarryT,

Śiva is in and is every thing; but imagine my joy when I could finally give my experience a name and understand it from within this beautiful tradition!



Are we all subject to this? I don't it see this way.

Might there be a 3rd axis to your pendulum? If so, by stopping its swinging motion; might these axis become more akin to a set of gimbals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimbal)?

Are you familiar with the three guna? They are a fascinating subject; a must for any who experience clearly the swinging effect between happiness and sorrow.


pranāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Aum Namaḥ Śivāya


Gimbals are a much more accurate model, the pendulum was merely a metaphor.

The third axis as you put it isn't a point through which the pendulum swings, but is the pin from which the pendulum hangs; freedom from suffering isn't to not suffer as such, but instead suffering becomes unserious for the sufferer, becomes part of the game.

So where for the unliberated, suffering appears as something which happens to the agent. For the liberated, the same suffering appears as a voluntary activity.

Just started reading on the three gunas, pretty interesting; the tamas guna, of destruction and obscurity, could perhaps shed light on the nature and purpose of suffering.


Freedom from suffering isn't to not suffer, but it is to see the purposes of suffering. I think, in a similar way, we often fail to see the purposes of happiness - that we as unfree from happiness as we are unfree from suffering.

yajvan
21 May 2012, 11:27 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



One must ask what is the nature and experience one has within this turyātītā caitanya...Think of two concentric circles.

http://www.icoachmath.com/image_md/Annulus2.gif


One is the body of action (kalā sarīram) - our body with all the actions and thoughts that go with it;

the other is the Self, ātma, antarātmā ( or interior Self). This is a very simple model as we will not get stuck into the
details of the 5 koṣa-s (coverings) and all that as we wish to keep the model simple.

Now with the establishment of turyātītā caitanya, these two circles are seperated.
http://dsmy2muqb7t4m.cloudfront.net/tuts/000_2010/358-sailing-boat/Imagem3.png
One circle is that of Self antarātmā ( or interior Self), it is now what we associate with, relate to.
My teacher called it Self-referral. The other circle as mentioned is kalā sarīram.

This Self is there all the time during wake-dream-sleep. It never leaves one's experience once established.


The experience becomes that of Self and non-Self. The world is divided into this simple model. There is the silence of the Self,and there is everything else.

It is from here, from this initial seperation that one advances in their spiritual development. It takes this seperation first, to know one's Self, that more unfoldment occurs on the pathway to śivavyāpti discussed in post one above.

It is from here first that the expansion of Self , called ātmavyāpti (ātma+vyāpti) can occur - that this Self can be seen in every-thing within the diversity of creation. It expands into the differentiated levels of life. For the individual, the Self is his/her personal experience of the silence within first.

From this point of view, being achored in the Self or antarātmā , all experiences are like objects. This is a pot, this is a car; yet the person also says 'this is sadness' or 'this is happienss'; he does not say I am sad, or I am happy. Because this 'I' is not involved in that activity or object or emotion. The 'I' is anchored in one's own Self. It is now with the rightful owner.

This is what kṛṣṇa-jī points out in the bhāgavad gītā one is free from longing, from the the sense of 'mine' , is the same in pleasure or pain. It is the one with a blanced intellect. This occurs when one is esatablished in the Self. We find this discussion in chapter 2 and 3 of the bhāgavad gītā. Why does this occur ? Because one finds the delight of the Self.

My teacher says kṛṣṇa-jī is explaining the integrated person. What is integrated ? The Self, or antarātmā, is now part of his/her daily experience. The person has attained grace ( bhāgavad gītā 2.64). The term Self-controlled now really takes on greater meaning.

There is much more to this turyātītā caitanya, this level of balance, yet I will stop here for now.

The next post then must consider what comes after this turyātītā caitanya ? It is the foundation for greater expansion of the supreme to occur within one's experience. What then unfolds?

praṇām

Mana
22 May 2012, 01:21 PM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste devotee, yajvan, all,


Thank you kindly yajvan for expounding the divine language and concepts, about which I can formulate with
greater ease my thoughts, I know that this will eventually help me no end, to better describe and explain and
understand the world in which I live!

Thank you for your kind thoughts devotee concerning what was effectively a very difficult period; it has taken a
while to assimilate it all, but that is my path, God shows me more than enough grace! I have learned to forgive
and carry on regardless.

Grace; such as the timing of the post above. Of course they are not linked, but would you believe me if I told you
that I had no knowledge of the following eclipse when deciding to describe my shimmering torus experience in
post 10? Pure coincidence but very graceful, I shall freely admit to finding great joy in this little coincidence.

Coincidence in the timing of events as one becomes harmonised with them, so that you have no doubt as to the
divine nature within the timing of these events, the universe folds back upon her self, you really move into another
thought dimension; seeing feeling and knowing of a truly interconnected nature, that is the whole.

Of course if you try to explain this to a Doctor of linear thought, well, they just pencil you in as being very ill, the
difficulty being in not possessing any language to describe the things which you are experiencing, or to justify the
conclusions to which you have arrived.

Maybe the worst thing being that, the Doctrine preached and practised; convinces those around you that you are
mad. They consequently then project this upon you.
I am fortunate that my realisation was strong enough to reinforce my convictions, my character free enough to
flow with it and to escape; blessed with a gentile nature so as not to come of any harm.



pranāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Aum Namaḥ Śivāya

ZarryT
22 May 2012, 01:42 PM
Coincidence in the timing of events as one becomes harmonised with them, so that you have no doubt as to the
divine nature within the timing of these events, the universe folds back upon her self, you really move into another
thought dimension; seeing feeling and knowing of a truly interconnected nature, that is the whole.


Just a little factoid: These kinds of divine coincidence are also known as synchronicity experiences in the new age communities.

Mana
22 May 2012, 02:34 PM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste ZarryT,


Thank you kindly; synchronicity was first coined by Carl Gustav Jung, , we were very slow on the uptake, with all due respect; I find the new age movement to be currently, somewhat lacking in dharma, although I know that it is full of good intentions.


pranāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Aum Namaḥ Śivāya

ZarryT
22 May 2012, 02:46 PM
हरिः ओम्


Namaste ZarryT,


Thank you kindly; synchronicity was first coined by Carl Gustav Jung, , we were very slow on the uptake, with all due respect; I find the new age movement to be currently, somewhat lacking in dharma, although I know that it is full of good intentions.


pranāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Aum Namaḥ Śivāya


Ah, you're already familiar! Sorry for wasting your time. I'd agree, i think there are quite a lot of issues with the new age movement.

yajvan
22 May 2012, 06:37 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

I have mentioned in post 16 above :


The experience becomes that of Self and non-Self. The world is divided into this simple model. There is the silence of the Self, and there is everything else.
The 158th śloka of Vivekacūḍāmaṇi says the following:
pāṇi pādādimān deho nātmā vyaṅge'pi jīvanāt |
tat- tacchakter anāśāc ca na niyāmyo niyāmakaḥ ||
The body, consisting of hands, feet and so on, cannot be the SELF because one lives without these limbs and continues to function. The controlled cannot be the controller.


This is to discriminate between the Self and not-Self (ātmānātma vivekaḥ). If one wished to get more information
on this, please consider the following HDF post found in the uttara folder: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=4033 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=4033)



praṇām

yajvan
31 May 2012, 06:30 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

What then is next after turiyatit chetana (sustained turīya) ?

It is the expansion of Self called ātmavyāpti (ātma+vyāpti) that expands into creation; It is the pervasion of Self into the world of perception, the world of objects and things. Just as this awareness of the 4th (turīya) expanded into wake-dream-sleep, now it expands like oil poured on a smooth surface , into creation.

The śiva sūtra-s (3.39) says it this way:
citta sthitivaccharīra karaṇabāhyeṣu ||
In essence this sūtra says one's awareness or consciousness of (citta or cit) moves (cara) outside (bahya).

Well what does that mean? One begins to appreciate that Self not only pervades him/herself internally via turiyatit chetana , it also pervades the world.
This level of awareness some call bhagavat chetana. The word bhagavat means 'divine'. It is given to viṣṇu-kṛṣṇa , ṣiva, mother divine (bhagavatī). Some times the divine is called bhagavan or bhagavantaḥ ( as a group).
The point here is the individual's experience is that of seeing the divine in His/Her creation. One now has this divine awareness to appreciate the divine within creation.
We can then see from personal and direct experience, one can become the bhāgavata - the 'follower' of the divine, of bhagavan. Because now it is a personal experience. No pretending, no mood making, but a direct personal experience of Īśvara's creation on the level of the senses ( touch, taste, smell, etc).

Hence the continuum of consciousness as a graphic:
wake-dream-sleep >--------0-----0-------0

The 1st stop after wake-dream-sleep was turiyatit chetana ; the 2nd stop just reviewed is bhagavat chetana; another stop
exists, the 3rd stop. We will review this in a future post.

praṇām

Shuddhasattva
01 June 2012, 11:49 PM
Namaste Yajvanji

This is a wonderful thread. Thank you.

I recall an older thread touching on turiyatita chaitanya, bhagavat chaitanya, etc., in which Atanuji pointed out a lack of Shruti support for this concept.

Would you mind elaborating on the sources of this information?

I am not dismissing these teachings by any means because of a lack of (apparent) shruti support, but I am curious as to the basis.

Dhanyavad

Namaste

yajvan
02 June 2012, 11:59 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


.

I recall an older thread touching on turiyatita chaitanya, bhagavat chaitanya, etc., in which Atanuji pointed out a lack of Shruti support for this concept.

Would you mind elaborating on the sources of this information?



If we review the conversation with atanu-ji his position was that there was nothing beyond turīya i.e. turīyatita. That was the crux of the conversation and postings. Yet that said, the sources of these teachings comes first from my teacher and instruction; The other sources are:

śiva sūtra-s and their elaboration found in the spanda-kārikā-s¹
mālinīvijayottaratantra - reviews tattvajaya, the various pramātṛ¹ and their experiences of 'fullness'
pratyabhijñāhṛdayaṁ - which is part of the trika system i.e. āgama śāstra , spanda śāstra and pratyabhijñā śāstra.
I have not mentioned spanda-kārikā-s ( as some would think) as this śāstra offers the vehicles to unfold these levels of consciousness.I mention the list above from kaśmir śaivism as they are more articulate and detailed in their definitions. These are a few yet I will also ask the reader to consider various upaniṣad-s; the one that comes to mind is the brahmabindūpaniṣad & kaivalya-upaniṣad ( the one who attains para-brahman). Yet to the attuned reader we will find various levels of consciousness called out indirectly & directly in the bhāgavad gītā¹ and directly in patañjali’s yogadarśana ( 4th pada).

Yet there are more references... I will be happy to provide.

praṇām

words

spanda-kārikā-s

1st niḥṣyanda called svarūpa spanda; offering the essential nature of spanda (śiva) i.e. Śiva's dynamism which is identical with the Self (ātman); 1st to the 25th verse
2nd niḥṣyanda called sahaja vidyodaya; the emerging of Self (śiva) as the whole universe; 26th to the 32nd verse
3rd niḥṣyanda called vibhūti spanda; additional powers (siddhi) gained/acquired via spanda; 33rd verse to the 52nd verse
bhāgavad gītā - chapt 4, 35th śloka
pramātṛ - perceiver; also in advanced states, it is one who has a correct notion or idea , authority , performer of (the mental operation resulting in a) true conception

As one advances to higer levels of unfoldment there are 3 that are called out that relate to the levels of consciousness being reviewed in this string.

yajvan
02 June 2012, 07:18 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namastÚ



mālinīvijayottaratantra - reviews tattvajaya, the various pramātṛ╣ and their experiences of 'fullness'
Here is what this masterful śāstra (chapt 2, 38th śloka), found in kaśmir śaivism, has to say...It is quite profund and delight to read, comprehend and experience:

pracayaṁ rūpātītaṁ ca samyak turyamudāhṛtaṁ|
mahāpracayamicchanti turyātītaṁ vicakṣaṇāḥ ||38||

Turya -the fourth state of consciousness-- (turyam) is said to be (udāhṛtam) truly (samyßk) pracaya -lit. the mass- (pracayam) and (ca) rūpātītam -the state beyond rūpastha or deep sleep- (rūpß-atītam). The wise (vicakṣaṇāḥ) wish (to attain) (icchanti) mahāpracaya -lit. the Great Mass, the great fullness, totality - (mahāpracayam) (also known as) turyātīta - lit. beyond the fourth - (turya-atītam) ||38||

Pracaya, rūpātīta and turya are synonymous. This is the meaning of the first line in the stanza. In turn, Pracaya or the Mass is so called because it is made of a mass of Pure Consciousness. This Mass is also declared to be bind˙, the fourth body where one experiences the fourth state of consciousness (turīya).
The wise seek to attain the Great Mass, the Great Totality, which lies even beyond the fourth i.e. beyond the fourth state of consciousness. This sublime condition is said to be "the state beyond turīya", where one transcends all his four bodies and rests only on pure consciousness, his true Essence. All in all, turyātīta and mahāpracaya and synonymous.

praṇām

yajvan
03 June 2012, 11:03 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



Yet that said, the sources of these teachings comes first from my teacher and instruction
... yajvan, why do you mention your teacher when we are asking about the sources of knowledge found in the śāstra-s ?

This is all about the verification of knowledge. One knows there is the fullness of truth when there is alignment of 3 components:

śāstra or āgama - a body of teaching (in general) , scripture , science authoritative in nature ; sacred book or composition of divine authority
ācārya or guru - " knowing or teaching the ācāra or rules " , a spiritual guide or teacher
vicāra - (one's own) reflection , examination , investigation That is, we read the śāstra-s and they are explained or reconciled by the ācārya, AND we are able to experience
the knowlege or reflect upon it ourselves for our own comprehension or experience. When these 3 align we have
the fullness of knowlege that is lively and true.


What is so unique about sanātana dharma is it provides a check-and-balance system.

What causes one's consternation is when one hears something and it does not align to what is read, or cannot be experienced. Thus the teacher plays the important role to bring insight and remove doubts.
Yet even if the teacher cannot remove the doubt then the knowledge in question has to set aside and re-evaluated or dismissed completely.

It is the teacher that is able to inform you that the snake you are viewing is just a rope; and then, upon further inspection you can ~see~ this to be the case.


praṇām

yajvan
04 June 2012, 02:37 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté




Yet to the attuned reader we will find various levels of consciousness called out indirectly & directly in the bhāgavad gītā ...
If one takes a careful look at the bhāgavad gītā of 18 chapters, we will see a natural grouping of chapters: 1-6, 7-12, & 13-18.

It is within the first six chapters that kṛṣṇa-jī offers the knowledge of atma-jñana or knowledge of the Self. When this is accomplished one has then arrived at turyātītā caitanya and the subject reviewed in posts 9 and 16 above.

Self knowledge = atma-jñana = turyātītā caitanya when it becomes a direct and personal experience, that remains your reality 7 days a week, 24 hrs. a day.

When we look to chapters 7-12 of the bhāgavad gītā , kṛṣṇa-jī now offers the wisdom of bhakti. It is from the foundation of turyātītā caitanya cultivated by bhakti that one is uplifted to bhagavat chetana, that was reviewed in post 22 above.

If one recalls, kṛṣṇa-jī shows arjuna his universal form in chapter 11, starting with the 5th śloka. This parallels what I offered in post 22:


This level of awareness some call bhagavat chetana. The word bhagavat means 'divine'. It is given to viṣṇu-kṛṣṇa , ṣiva, mother divine (bhagavatī). Some times the divine is called bhagavan or bhagavantaḥ ( as a group). The point here is the individual's experience is that of seeing the divine in His/Her creation. One now has this divine awareness to appreciate the divine within creation.
Arjuna sees the Supreme's universal form everywhere - within the Supreme's creation, seeing the divine everywhere.

Then in chapters 13-18 of the bhāgavad gītā , kṛṣṇa-jī spends time on additional (refined) knowledge and clarifications as arjuna starts in chapter 13 asking additional questions regarding puruṣa and prakṛti.

So we are able to see within the bhāgavad gītā , considered one of the prasthāna traya¹, the offering of these higher states of being.

praṇām


words
prasthāna traya - 3 foundations, ways, course , method , systems of vedānta . They are the upaniṣad-s, the bhāgavad gītā , and the brahmasūtra-s - the teaching of brahman, or ātman i.e. brahma-vidya.

yajvan
07 June 2012, 10:55 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


As you recall this string is about śivavyāpti discussed in post one...


This word śivavyāpti is śiva + vyāpti. Śiva is that wholeness of consciousness. We have a wonderful definition for
śiva based upon the root śī defined as 'in whom all things lie'; vyāpti is defined as pervasion, omnipresence , ubiquity, full, inseparable.
So, śivavyāpti is the pervasion of which all thing lie within the Being of śiva. Even differentiated/fragmented consciousness of the
human condition - there is no place it is not.

So we have been reviewing the path and unfoldment of this fullness that occurs as one's full-potential is revealed along the way.

This fullness is referred to in the upanisads in a few ways , called the mahāvākyāni or some recognize it as the 4 mahāvākya-s.

prajñānam brahma - (knowledge , wisdom , intelligence) consciousness is brahman; from the aitareya upaniṣad
ayam ātmā brahma - this Self ( ātman) is brahman; from the māṇdūka upaniṣad
tat tvan asi - that thou art ( you are That, brahman); from the chāndogya upaniṣad
ahaṁ brahmāsmi - I am brahman; from the bṛhadaraṇyaka upaniṣadThese mahāvākyāni have correpsonding levels of personal experience on how one sees themselves in relationship to the universe. This is the unfoldment of fullness, that despots oneself on the doorstep of śivavyāpti.

Within kaśmir śaivism these levels of consciousness and experience are called out as:

sadvidyā or śuddhavidyā tattva - balance between Self and not-Self
īśvara tattva - the universe is my own expansion
sadāśiva tattva - I myself am this universe
The last one is most profound and beyond the ability to put in words called śiva+śakti tattva (combined) - this is just pure I.When we are talking of consciousness/levels we call this all-encompassing level of awareness brahmi chetana. It is the consciousness of brahman, of that all-encompassing fullness that is possible. A field of reality where duality does not exist, as all is brahman, I am brahman, I am that fullness of Being.


Hence on our continuum of consciousness we go from completely differentiated (fragmented) consciousness to totally unfragmented wholeness of Being.
wake-dream-sleep-turya--------0-------0---------0------- the common thread always being consciousness itself.


praṇām

yajvan
07 June 2012, 12:03 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namastÚ





When we are talking of consciousness/levels we call this all-encompassing level of awareness brahmi chetana. It is the consciousness of brahman, of that all-encompassing fullness that is possible. A field of reality where duality does not exist, as all is brahman, I am brahman, I am that fullness of Being.

In the spandakārikā-s (2.4) it calls out this out in a slightly different manner:

bhoktaiva bhogyabhāvena sadā sarvatra saṁsthitaḥ||

"The experient (bhoktā) himself (eva), always (sadā) (and) everywhere (sarvatra), remains (saṁsthitaḥ) in the form (bhāvena) of the experienced (bhogya... iti)."


praṇām

yajvan
07 June 2012, 08:00 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namastÚ


Well, where does one start ?

By grooming nimīlana-samādhi which over time and with practice blooms into unmīlana-samādhi ....

nimīlana - with eyes closed; facing inwards
unmīlana - 'raising the eyelids' ; with eyes open facing the world
samādhi - absorption - but into what ? turīyathe wise inform us, withdraw, then withdraw from the withdrawal

This is one sure path...


praṇām

devotee
07 June 2012, 10:43 PM
Thank you, Yajvan ji ! This thread is coming up wonderfully !! :)

OM

yajvan
14 June 2012, 05:37 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namastÚ




This level of awareness some call bhagavat chetana. The word bhagavat means 'divine'. It is given to viṣṇu-kṛṣṇa , ṣiva, mother divine (bhagavatī). Some times the divine is called bhagavan or bhagavantaḥ ( as a group).
The point here is the individual's experience is that of seeing the divine in His/Her creation. One now has this divine awareness to appreciate the divine within creation.
We can then see from personal and direct experience, one can become the bhāgavata - the 'follower' of the divine, of bhagavan. Because now it is a personal experience. No pretending, no mood making, but a direct personal experience of Īśvara's creation on the level of the senses ( touch, taste, smell, etc)

A quality or ~feature~ of this bhagavat chetana is called pratimīlana.
Pratimīlana = prati + mīlana ; back again, return, or 'on par with' (prati) + closing the eyes ( mīlana). It means both inward awareness (nimīlana) and outward awareness (unmīlana╣).

The experient now has this most noble experience of being secured, steady and grounded in one's own Self (atma-j˝ana or knowledge of the Self) yet when the eyes are open he/she experiences the environment/universe as non-different then his/her Divine Self. All details ( flowers, earth, objects of the earth, etc. and sky ) are seen in realtionship to one's own Self.

How could one's own heart not swell in adoration to the Supreme ? One becomes the bhāgavata - the 'follower' of the divine.



praṇām

words
unmīlana - see post 30 above for the description and context of these words.

yajvan
20 June 2012, 05:41 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

One other term we find in kaśmiri śaivism is khecarī mudrā when defining higher (fuller) levels of awareness that the aspirant may unfold.

If we just look at the face value of these words khecarī mudrā , we would have the posture or position ( mudrā ) of moving in the air , flying (khecarī). One immediately may think ' oh, this is about siddhi-s and flying in the air'. This is not the case, as we need to go a few steps deeper to bring out a better level of apprecation.

khecarī is a compound ( some grammarians may call it aluk samāsa), with one of its components being kha.
This kha is rooted (√) in khan meaning a cavity , hollow , cave , cavern , aperture; some call a vacuum or vyoman or ākāśa, hence the notion of sky. Yet it is also another name for brahma (the Supreme ).
The second part of this compound khecarī is carī . This carī is rooted (√) in car and defined as to move or travel through , pervade ; it means to move one's self , go , walk , move , stir , roam about.We now have a fuller picture of this word khecarī - it is to move about or pervade (car) within vyoman or ākāśa, within brahma. Now we add in mudrā and it becomes one's posture or postion to move about within vyoman or ākāśa, within brahma.

Yet what does it mean? It suggests that the individual resides and moves and is ~postured~ within the fullness of brahma ( the Supreme); Brahma means brahman ( and not brahmā, part of the triad of brahmā, śiva and viṣṇu).

Yet one may ask why associate this experience with a vacuum or vyoman or ākāśa ? We will take a look in the next post.


praṇām

yajvan
19 July 2012, 10:30 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

from the last post...



Yet one may ask why associate this experience with a vacuum or vyoman or ākāśa ?
... in a few words , it is empty of objects. One withdraws ( as it were) from the multiplicity of things, of diversity, and resides within the SELF. It is the notion of contrasting diversity with absolutely no diversity. The notion of 'many' compared to 'void'.

Hence it is described as khecarī mudrā or moving in the void.


praṇām

dhyandev
24 July 2012, 08:34 AM
This kha is rooted (√) in khan meaning a cavity , hollow , cave , cavern , aperture; some call a vacuum or vyoman or ākāśa, hence the notion of sky. Yet it is also another name for brahma (the Supreme ).

It also means infinite and zero(nothingness){kham}

yajvan
24 July 2012, 06:13 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namastÚ


It also means infinite and zero(nothingness){kham}
If I were choosing a name for zero, I would apply the word śūnya.

Yet if we use 'kha' (another) nice definition for this is 'a hole made by an arrow', hence the application to the numerical 0.
Also kha is the anusvāra represented by a circle (bindu). And as aforementioned kha is rooted (√) in khan meaning a cavity , hollow , cave , cavern , aperture; some call a vacuum or vyoman or ākāśa, hence the notion of sky. Yet it is also another name for brahma (the Supreme ), and still applies.


Yet for a fuller understanding of kha and of kham I direct the reader to the bṛhadaraṇyaka upaniṣad ( some write bṛhadaraṇyakopaniṣad ) om kham brahma brāhmaṇa, and to the chāndogya upaniṣad 4th chapter (some call parvan), 10th section (or adhyāya) we see the discussion of kam and kham. When tied to the bṛhadaraṇyaka upaniṣad's offer, the knowledge shines through.

praṇām

dhyandev
25 July 2012, 12:46 PM
If I were choosing a name for zero, I would apply the word śūnya.
I was going through lilavati by bhaskaracharya ,wherehe tells the properties of zero like0*0=0,0+0=0 etc all zeros were represented by khm He has special verses describing the peculiar properties of zero. He lists eight rules such asa+ 0 = 0, 02= 0,√0 = 0,a×0 = 0 etc. The interesting aspect of this verse is the
definition of infinity or Khahara
as a fraction who’s denominatoris zero. In other words,a/0=∞. He knew that whenever a number was divided by zero, itlead to a problem. He gives a verse on the nature of this infinity as follows (copied from translation):“There is no change in infinite (khahara) figure if some thing is added to or sub-tracted from the same. It is like there is no change in infinite Visnu (Almighty)due to dissolution or creation of abounding living beings”.


Also of the 3 sounds of the universe one is om, other is khm & other is km कं

yajvan
25 July 2012, 02:13 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namastÚ




Also of the 3 sounds of the universe one is om, other is khm & other is km कं
So I do not miss a finer point, can you advise how this knowledge fits into the string and recent thoughts as it is prudent to stay on topic.


praṇām

dhyandev
26 July 2012, 10:44 AM
an you advise how this knowledge fits into the string and recent thoughts as it is prudent to stay on topic.



It is just a little more info to enlighten readers

kallol
19 September 2013, 06:50 PM
Thanks Yajvanji and Mana for discussion on such a deep subject. The examples and descriptions are apt and are strong attempts to bridge the continuity and discontinuity which are apparent only (because of our limitations of 5 senses).

The circles in Yajvanji's post is interesting. I was thinking on it. May be I will put it as 3 circles - one in another not exactly concentric but a bit variation on that.

The outer - the body, next - the mind, the innermost - reflection of consciousness.

The mind can go in and out of the body, depending on the scenario.

As we get cleaner in mind - the inner circle gets bigger and starts covering the mind.

However it does not cover it fully as there is a limit - in terms of intellect only. The minds of the cells and organs are connected to the human level mind.

The next level cleansing is required through actions. This way the body cleanliness acts on the human level mind and allows the reflection of consciousness to cross the boundary of mind and reach the body level minds. That might be the expansion of consciousness. That might be the Turia state. This way it breaks or bridges the boundary of continuity and discontinuity.

Some more thoughts on this next time