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Equinox
18 May 2012, 03:53 AM
As the title suggests, what is your take on this?

I feel guilty whenever I eat dishes prepared with mock meat due to its identical resemblance with its 'real' counterpart. Most of them are soy-based but are they in accordance with Hindu vegetarianism?

devotee
18 May 2012, 04:26 AM
Namaste Equinox,


As the title suggests, what is your take on this?
?

The answer is "Yes". If you are feeling guilty then "No".

OM

Tāṇḍava
18 May 2012, 06:05 AM
As the title suggests, what is your take on this?

I feel guilty whenever I eat dishes prepared with mock meat due to its identical resemblance with its 'real' counterpart. Most of them are soy-based but are they in accordance with Hindu vegetarianism?

I have now doubt that "mock meat" is vegetarian from the point of ahimsa, which must be the primary concern from a Hindu point of view. From the view of ayurveda I think most meat substitutes may be tamastic food. It is often highly processed and has many synthetic chemical flavourings and colourings.

I do eat meat substitutes, but from a health point of view I try to eat fresh pulses regularly too.

Maya3
18 May 2012, 08:37 AM
You can definitely it them. They can be really tasty.

But as Tandava said, they are very processed and if you look at the list of ingredients there is a long list of unpronounceables.

It's better to eat things like Tempeh or Seitan. It's a bit processed too, but it does not a lot of weird ingredients.

But if you mostly eat natural proteins, then I think your body can handle the processed fake meat now and them. At least that's my philosophy.

Maya

Eastern Mind
18 May 2012, 10:13 AM
Vannakkam: Mock meat is just the remnants (among many other things) that converts and wannabes are unwilling to give up. Why not cross the bridge?

Aum Namasivaya

Maya3
18 May 2012, 10:25 AM
Vannakkam: Mock meat is just the remnants (among many other things) that converts and wannabes are unwilling to give up. Why not cross the bridge?

Aum Namasivaya

Um.. I've been a vegetarian for over 30 years, I'm not a wannabe.

Maya

Tāṇḍava
18 May 2012, 10:58 AM
Vannakkam: Mock meat is just the remnants (among many other things) that converts and wannabes are unwilling to give up. Why not cross the bridge?

Aum Namasivaya
In my case wife and daughter! I can certainly sympathise with my wife on busy days when she just wants to bung some veggie sausages in the oven!

Eastern Mind
18 May 2012, 11:06 AM
Vannakkam: Anyone is free to eat fake meat. What is expressed here are opinions. it is my honest opinion that there is so much delicious vegetarian food in Indian culture and elsewhere (Greek, Chinese, Italian, Ukrainian etc.) that fake meat is just totally unnecessary. All the other foods mentioned above are tastier, healthier, fresher, and just as readily available.

I have eaten it, not at home, but mostly as a guest in houses where the host was not familiar with much variety of cuisine outside of meat.

Aum Namasivaya

Eastern Mind
18 May 2012, 11:08 AM
Um.. I've been a vegetarian for over 30 years, I'm not a wannabe.

Maya

Vannakkam: I wasn't referring to vegetarianism, nor to you in particular. It was a generalisation. :)

Aum Namasivaya

Eastern Mind
18 May 2012, 11:58 AM
Namaste Equinox,

The answer is "Yes". If you are feeling guilty then "No".

OM

Vannakkam Devotee: Can you even by this stuff in India?

Aum Namasivaya

Maya3
18 May 2012, 12:11 PM
Vannakkam: I wasn't referring to vegetarianism, nor to you in particular. It was a generalisation. :)

Aum Namasivaya

Yes but even long term vegetarians can enjoy an Italian sausage made of soy now and then. It makes for a lot of variation in your cooking.

:)

Maya

Sahasranama
18 May 2012, 12:27 PM
Just read the ingredients, if there is no meat in eat, it is vegetarian. How difficult can this be.

charitra
18 May 2012, 01:00 PM
How difficult can this be.
Sahas you miss the point . A story. Im in a mood to have a laugh….

Yama Dharma Raja to the 250 lbs heavy man: (angrily) Did you kill the poor little cat?

The 250lb. man: (in worried tones) No sir. I ran to rescue it since it was stuck in the plastic bag and getting smothered.

Yama dharma raja: Why did you smother the poor little animal instead?

250lb man: The silly cat fetched a banana peel from the trash can and left it in the middle of the room (prior to playing with the plastic bag), in a hurry whilst running to save it, inadvertently, I slipped onthe banana peel and landed heavily on the cat.

YDR: So you dint have any intent tokill the cat, your intent was in fact to save it but in actuality you killed it. I see, but your intent doesn’t reflect in the action northe outcome of it, correct?

250 lb man: (nervously) it appears so now sir.

YDR, satisfied: Ok you will not get any bad remark from my asst., chitra gupta from this (incident).

250 lb man: (sad tone) Sir what about the poor little cat?

YDR: (as a matter of factly) oh, she will be fine I promise you, soon she will be born as the future prince of wales. Now you are dismissed.

250lb man: Thank you sir, thank you chitra guptaji. Namaste.

PS: Anyone, want to know who YDR is? His asst is?

Jainarayan
18 May 2012, 01:07 PM
If tvp, texturized vegetable protein (soy) is formed into a patty for ease of preparation or to eat on a roll, so what if it looks like a hamburger? :dunno: Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Jainarayan
18 May 2012, 01:12 PM
PS: Anyone, want to know who YDR is? His asst is?

Yama Dharma Raja. Yama, Lord of Justice. Chitragupta is Yama's "accountant" for keeping track of people's deeds and misdeeds, and assigning them their next incarnation.

Eastern Mind
18 May 2012, 01:43 PM
Yes but even long term vegetarians can enjoy an Italian sausage made of soy now and then. It makes for a lot of variation in your cooking.

:)

Maya

Vannakkam: I would agree some can, yes. One time I had some and I puked it. That's not exactly enjoyment. :) If you and I end up at some Buddhist fake meat restaurant some day, you can have all of mine.

Aum Namasivaya

Equinox
18 May 2012, 03:39 PM
Thank you everyone for your views on this. Forgive me if I caused a stir or anything. :)

I mostly have this in Buddhist restaurants, though the Hindu ones serve them too.

Jainarayan
18 May 2012, 03:56 PM
Forgive me if I caused a stir fry or anything. :)


Fixed.

Get it? Soy, tofu, stir fry... oh I guess you had to be there. :Roll:

Sorry, it's the end of a very boring Friday work day.

Equinox
18 May 2012, 04:14 PM
TouchedbytheLord : Haha, guess it should have been stir-fry then. :Cool:

Maya3
18 May 2012, 06:51 PM
EM

Sounds perfect! We should plan for it!

:)

Maya

Eastern Mind
18 May 2012, 07:14 PM
EM

Sounds perfect! We should plan for it!

:)

Maya

Vannakkam: No fake meat, I'm betting where I'd want to go ... the canteen at the Flushing Ganesha temple.

Aum Namasivaya

devotee
18 May 2012, 08:01 PM
Namaste EM,

I don't know if I got it right. In India, we get Soya products which appears as meat balls but these are pure soyabins. If that is the case, it certainly is vegetarian. If it is anything else, I can't say as I am not familiar with the stuff.

OM

Eastern Mind
18 May 2012, 08:36 PM
Namaste EM,

I don't know if I got it right. In India, we get Soya products which appears as meat balls but these are pure soyabins. If that is the case, it certainly is vegetarian. If it is anything else, I can't say as I am not familiar with the stuff.

OM
Vannakkam: We can buy soy chunks too. But what these guys are talking about here is fake meat ... so well flavored that you could fool the hardiest of carnivores ... my staff bought some fake meat burgers for me one time at a staff dinner, I guess they felt sorry for me or something, but I got caught up helping a student. By the time I got there the fake meat ones had disappeared down the hungry throat of some long-toothed carnivore. :) Good thing I knew fasting didn't kill you.

Aum Namasivaya

Sahasranama
18 May 2012, 08:45 PM
Fake meats can be really disgusting or tasty, depending on the manufacturer. In the Netherlands, we have a little store called the vegetarian butcher, they sell soy products that have the texture of meat and they are actually quite tasty. But other products that have these fake meat smell on them like sausages, in my opinion are disgusting. I bought this barbecue soy patties once and it was so disgusting, I couldn't even take more than one bite of it. But this is all a matter of personal taste. Objectively they are all vegetarian, as long as there is no meat in them.

Maya3
18 May 2012, 10:04 PM
Vannakkam: No fake meat, I'm betting where I'd want to go ... the canteen at the Flushing Ganesha temple.

Aum Namasivaya

YES! I'm game, their food is fantastic!

Maya

Shuddhasattva
21 May 2012, 05:54 AM
Namaste.

There is no problem with mock meat, and I would be unaffected, were I you, by the opinion that it's something for people not committed enough to some idea of renunciation (for we who use computers?) to 'fully give up' meat.

Having been raised vegetarian in the US, I was also raised with mock meats. I was not eating mockmeat to 'replace' real meat in my diet, I was doing so as a palatable source of protein, and to prepare dishes requiring a meat analog. The distinction is a fine one, but an important one, I feel, from doing it to prolong one's hankering for meat.

For those of us who have previously eaten meat and are converting to vegetarianism, I still see mockmeat being a valuable tool in their process, although if you find that such is one's continued desire for meat, not satiated by the vegetarian meat one is substituting, that it becomes an impediment on the path, then maybe then one should revert to the wide variety of delicious, protein-rich even vegetarian food available.

Without this being the case, I would suggest an even more wide variety that vegetable (and fungal, eventually algal!) proteins have to offer, many of which requires no more than basic food processing as done in the kitchen oneself, ensuring purity of ingredients.

I see no more harm with mock meat than any other method of gratifying the tongue - whether that in of itself is harmful is the subject of another debate.

As some others have pointed out, many brands of mockmeat contain unwholesome ingredients. You can make your own from wheat protein flour (seitan), or textured vegetable protein (almost always soy), legumes & oats, soy beans.

If you have problems digesting gluten, and are leery of soy due to phytoestrogen concerns - then this is a health issue, not an overtly spiritual one (though to the extent that proper maintenance of one's body, especially according to ayurvedic injunctions as per the body type, health issues are certainly spiritual ones)


Namaste

sanjaya
21 May 2012, 11:30 PM
Vannakkam: Mock meat is just the remnants (among many other things) that converts and wannabes are unwilling to give up. Why not cross the bridge?

Aum Namasivaya

Well, EM, I'm sure many converts (whether to vegetarianism or Hinduism) do eat vegetarian meats as a sort of stepping stone. But they are pretty good in their own right. I've been vegetarian my whole life, and I have to tell you there's nothing quite like a veggie burger off the charcoal grill!

Bhagavankibhakt
22 October 2012, 08:52 PM
It is my opinion and belief that the desire to perform an action is almost equivalent to performing it but to a lesser extent. Consuming mock meats to me should not be done by those who are vegetarian for spiritual purposes. Granted no animal was slain for that product to be made but still it causes the mind and body to crave the taste of meat which to me is not right. The desire for the taste of meat should never be within our minds whether synthetic or natural. With the abundance of vegetables out there I cannot understand why people consume these products. I've accidentally tasted a piece of mock chicken at a work event and I almost threw up. The taste was so similar to actual chicken it was repulsive. Also these products are so processed and drenched in chemicals I am certain they cannot be good for the body. Which may very well make them Tamasik like the very meats they are meant to replace.

Soya products are very processed and as such will not be as beneficial to the body and non-processed foods. Vegetables and beans are so varying that it's almost a shame to neglect these delicious things for some meat substitute.

Please note these are my personal views and as such may have little or no connection to scriptures.

Believer
23 October 2012, 10:25 PM
Namaste,

It is my opinion and belief that the desire to perform an action is almost equivalent to performing it but to a lesser extent.
+1

Pranam.

Equinox
24 October 2012, 11:22 AM
Vannakkam Bhagavankibhakt,


but still it causes the mind and body to crave the taste of meat


The desire for the taste of meat should never be within our minds whether synthetic or natural.


Which may very well make them Tamasik like the very meats they are meant to replace.

These are the very reasons as to why I feel the guilt from time to time. Yes it contains a lot of chemicals, and is rather unhealthy. But for people like me, who are still in the transitional phase to becoming a full vegetarian, I guess it would still be alright when taken occasionally.


Aum Namah Shivaya

Sahasranama
24 October 2012, 04:54 PM
I like rabbit.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42760000/jpg/_42760119_choc13.jpg

R Gitananda
31 October 2012, 01:40 AM
It is my opinion and belief that the desire to perform an action is almost equivalent to performing it but to a lesser extent.

namaste

But what action is desired by a person eating a mock meat burger? Many have converted to vegetarianism for the very reason that they want to stop harming animals.

Hari Aum

Eastern Mind
24 March 2013, 09:16 PM
Vannakkam: Did you hear the one about the meat-eater, who, in order to get along with his vegetarian friends, started making fake tofu out by grinding the turkey's white meat?

Aum Namasivaya