Confused about Moksha

[seekinganswers]

I am just beginning to learn about Advaita philosophy and have a hypothetical question.

So, if my understanding is correct, there is one consciousnes, Brahman.

It is therefore an illusion that Person A and Person B are two different beings or consciousness.

If that is true then why is it if person A, realizes the true nature, he realizes or achieves moksha, while person B is still stuck in maya?

also is brahman capable of thinking? is that why maya exists because brahman got confused?

certainly advaita makes more sense to me then individual atmans existing because scientsits say consciousness comes fromthe brain

[ZarryT]

It is therefore an illusion that Person A and Person B are two different beings or consciousness.

The problem word is "illusion". It is true that they are both brahman, but it is also true that they are not the same internal monologue; the brains of the two entities contain different thoughts, but the consciousness is one.


If that is true then why is it if person A, realizes the true nature, he realizes or achieves moksha, while person B is still stuck in maya?

Because that's how the scripts of those individuals work to generate a story. The universe and all life is one big drama which brahman is simultaneously the actors and the audience. Achieving Moksha is where the character becomes aware that it is also the audience. Characters in maya are unaware of the fact that they are the audience, so the play is a much more serious affair for them, which only creates more and more of this divine drama.


also is brahman capable of thinking? is that why maya exists because brahman got confused?

Maya is the theatre, stage scene and set for the play. Moksha is the comfy front row seats. Characters in the play who achieve moksha realise that they are simultaneously on the stage and in the seat. Characters in maya think that they are only on the stage.

In the same way that when dreaming, you forget that you're laying in bed, and lucid dreaming is where you remember. Moksha is awareness of laying in bed in waking life.

[wundermonk]

So, if my understanding is correct, there is one consciousnes, Brahman.

Yes.


It is therefore an illusion that Person A and Person B are two different beings or consciousness.

Depends on the perspective. In Vyavaharika [empirical reality], A and B are different. But the essence of their jivas [selves] are the same Brahman. This is the transcendental [paramartha] reality.


If that is true then why is it if person A, realizes the true nature, he realizes or achieves moksha, while person B is still stuck in maya?

This is an intelligent question. There are many analogies provided in response to this.

Imagine many people on the beach on a full moon night. Some people with defects in their eyesight see the reflection of the moon in the water and presume there is more than one moon. Yet the jnani exists who is able to correctly realize that only one moon exists. The perception of this jnani is grounded in his personal mental modification. Mental modification is not consciousness. It appears that mental modification is sentient but our mind is not consciousness. The mind appears sentient because of Brahman's proximity. It is empirical [vyavaharika] and is not relevant in transcendental realm [paramartha].

Another analogy is that the same space pervades empty pots. When one pot breaks, the space inside the pot [jiva] realizes its oneness with the all pervading space [Brahman]. However, the space inside other pots will have to work their way out of the limiting adjuncts brought on by past karma.


also is brahman capable of thinking? is that why maya exists because brahman got confused?

Brahman is unadulterated thought itself. It is pure consciousness. Brahman is the light that manifests everything else. If this light itself is confused, none of our philosophical disputations can even be considered veridical. Maya exists but only as long as it is not sublated by Brahman-knowledge.


certainly advaita makes more sense to me then individual atmans existing because scientsits say consciousness comes fromthe brain

This is a bit difficult to understand. What is the relationship between the existence of individual atmans/existence of one Brahman, etc. and scientists saying that consciousness is an emergent property of the brain?

[kallol]

Although human is a bundle of consciousness but it is a combination of different states of consciousness.

1. The highest and unpolluted state of consciousness

2. The subtle matter (mind along with subtle intellect, senses, etc)

3. Gross matter (visible matter like body, etc)

Water is common, but icebergs (though being water in different state) are of different shapes and sizes.

Now the body mind complex is enabled by highest level consciousness.

Moksha is a level of knowledge, which when assimilated completely makes the subtle matter static or unchanged, which is like going back to original form i.e. consciousness. This is a state where the vibration of the mind is theoritically zero.

Moksha is the assimilated knowledge of "I" which actually in perfect case cease to exist.

As this part is the state of the body mind complex that is why different people are at different position in the journey.

[Maya3]

Great questions and great answers!

Maya

[devotee]

Namaste SA,


I am just beginning to learn about Advaita philosophy and have a hypothetical question.

So, if my understanding is correct, there is one consciousnes, Brahman.

It is therefore an illusion that Person A and Person B are two different beings or consciousness.

If that is true then why is it if person A, realizes the true nature, he realizes or achieves moksha, while person B is still stuck in maya?

also is brahman capable of thinking? is that why maya exists because brahman got confused?

certainly advaita makes more sense to me then individual atmans existing because scientsits say consciousness comes fromthe brain

Because Consciousness is not sum of A+B. Your assumption is wrong and so it leads to a wrong doubt. Consciousness acts in a very different way. There is nothing we know which can be compared with pure consciousness.

The Pure Consciousness has four different states and the fourth is not describable by combination of any words/concepts. Three states appear as thoughts on the substratum of the fourth which is the eternal unchanging Reality. It is similar to dream world created by your one consciousness when you dream. In the dream, every character is 'born' out of the one consciousness which is the dreamer ... but there is actually no creation. All characters though born out of the same dreaming consciousness behave independently as if these are independent entities. That is how this world works. You can't imagine anything which acts or behaves in this manner.

Now answer to your questions :

a) The "creation" of a deluded being or its enlightenment doesn't affect the underlying unchanging Reality as the beings are just thought-waves on the Reality as dream characters in the dream (the dream characters don't change the dreamer). So, the beings are not bound to each other with reality because their existence is like thought-waves appearing on the Infinite Ocean of Consciousness which is the sole reality. Therefore, when one Jeeva is enlightened, the other is not affected. As far as the underlying Reality is concerned, it was never affected by any action of the beings due to reasons explained above.

b) What do you mean by "Brahman capable of thinking" ? Brahman is Consciousness and when in vibration it generates thought waves over it which creates this world.

c) Brahman doesn't get confused. The creation of beings, delusion and enlightenment are all happening only apparently. It is slightly difficult to digest due to our state of being. I gave you an example of dream and the dreamer. Now, modify it slightly and see how it works. The Jeeva in gross body-mind creates subtle world of the dream and dream-characters by its thought-waves. The ultimate Reality creates this gross world with beings having gross body-mind by its thought-waves. In the previous example of dream, the dreamer is unaffected and in reality, the Brahman remains unaffected due to this mAyic phenomena.

OM

[brahman]

I am just beginning to learn about Advaita philosophy and have a hypothetical question.

So, if my understanding is correct, there is one consciousnes, Brahman.

It is therefore an illusion that Person A and Person B are two different beings or consciousness.

If that is true then why is it if person A, realizes the true nature, he realizes or achieves moksha, while person B is still stuck in maya?

also is brahman capable of thinking? is that why maya exists because brahman got confused?

certainly advaita makes more sense to me then individual atmans existing because scientsits say consciousness comes fromthe brain





Dear seekinganswers


If that is true then why is it if person A, realizes the true nature, he realizes or achieves moksha, while person B is still stuck in maya?


When personA is realized there no world exist for him and the scope of personB being in the consciousness of person A is out of question. This science is applicable for every individual and not for a community.


also is brahman capable of thinking?

None knows, even if someone knows, it cannot be put in words.


is that why maya exists because brahman got confused?

As long as maya exists everyone is confused. Dont know about Brahman

Love:)

[ZarryT]

As for Brahman being confused... If Brahman's confused then there's no hope!

But seriously, Maya and Brahman are polarized in this way; the state of confusion is a result of not-being the state of brahman.


As for does Brahman think? I'd ask you what it might think about. If it's everything, everywhere, in all possible times, all things are content of brahman - then it doesn't really have anything to think about, since it knows all already, is everywhere and everything simultaneously. All it can do is contemplate itself. This gives an answer to question of the meaning of life: If brahman has nothing to think about, then brahman needs to divide itself into many lives in maya so that it can think, experience and do things - so that it can forget the majority of itself.

In this understanding, Moksha becomes a moment in which a divided self remembers itself as brahman.

[Amrut]

I am just beginning to learn about Advaita philosophy and have a hypothetical question.

So, if my understanding is correct, there is one consciousnes, Brahman.

It is therefore an illusion that Person A and Person B are two different beings or consciousness.

If that is true then why is it if person A, realizes the true nature, he realizes or achieves moksha, while person B is still stuck in maya?

also is brahman capable of thinking? is that why maya exists because brahman got confused?

certainly advaita makes more sense to me then individual atmans existing because scientsits say consciousness comes fromthe brain

i am late but hope my reply will be helpful

Person A has got rid of illusion and so he is enlightened, but Person B is still stuck in illussion.

Maya or illusion is also called as mithya i.e. one which is not true, but is still experienced.

In Jnana, realization, there is negation of Samsara i.e. world and not Nasha destruction of samsara.

Where science and logic terminates, spirituality begins :)

consciousness can live independently without body. Man and brain is active because of soul. Eyes are instruments. Even dead body is equipped with instruments but not vision. Vision, interpretation by brain, etc is because of soul.

Everything came out spontaneously out of brahman. Brahman is not confused and is been since then happening spontaneously. One who realises this brahman becomes brahman. He / she merges into brahman, where there i no trace of Maya. This is advaita.

In other words, Jiva (soul) individual existence merges into parmatman or brahman.

Mind dissolves into brahman and so does Ego.

Aum

IS