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mradam83
19 June 2012, 08:05 PM
Namaste.

I'm trying to get to the stage where I can meditate and focus my mind but admittedly I'm finding it do difficult.

Ironically when I was younger (late teens) I could meditate naturally and got to the stage that I felt like I left my body! Now though, I struggle to even think my thoughts In an uninterrupted way - it feels like the older I get, the shorter my attention span is.

What are the utter basics of Meditation - stance, comfort, location etc? And does anyone else find it extremely difficult to concentrate?

Cheers.

Shuddhasattva
20 June 2012, 12:34 AM
Namaste

Meditation (dhyan/dharana yoga) is itself not a single thing, it's a collection of methods used to access samadhi (trance-absorption).

For example:

Meditation on a gross object.
Meditation on a subtle object.
Meditation on no object.
In meditation both your aid and hindrance are thoughts. It is necessary to.
A. Not participate in thoughts.
B. View them as not-different from your object of meditation. As lenses onto that object.

What I mean is that when a thought occurs to you, and it will, though less so when your breathing is calm and regular and your posture undisturbed by discomfort, rather than participating in it, or trying to reject it / block it from your mind by force, view its apparition as an illusory protrusion of your actual meditative object; let each thought bring you back, closer and closer, to your object.

Here's something... unorthodox I'd also like to suggest:
Do you have a friend who might be willing to joyride around with you? Something I've noticed about the mind, at least my mind, is that it's easier to fix in meditation when the mind feels that the body has no choice but to be still. This is easier sitting in a passenger seat of a moving vehicle than left to one's own devices.

Hope this helps.

Namaste

Eastern Mind
20 June 2012, 07:17 AM
Vannakkam mradam83: One of the problems, as I see it in the west, is that prerequisites aren't met first. Somebody hears about meditation, thinks, "Oh, that's cool." and then tries unsuccessfully to meditate.

Did the Walenda guy who just crossed above Niagara Falls on a tightrope watch or hear about it, and say, "Oh, that's cool, I'll give it a go." No, obviously.

Meditation is an advanced practise. Kindergarten kids can't do calculus. In the west, there is this quantum leap of an idea going on.

One of the reasons is we have problems in life. It is difficult to clear the mind when a loved one is sick, an assignment is due, or the car is broke.

This is not to say I know you, or that you're not ready, but I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility. If you do try, and its unsuccessful, don't feel like a failure, or beat yourself up. There are lots of practices in Hinduism that are easier to do, and will develop will, which will serve you well for the day you are ready to sit still and go within. One is seva. (Service to mankind.) Another is bhakti, in home temple, or practises like japa.

Having said all that, the very basics of meditation are basically twofold: straight spine, and rhythmic diaphragmatic breathing.

On a side note, I'm not a very good meditator at all, and won't pretend to be, although there are moments when awareness is effortlessly thrown inward, almost on its own accord, unconsciously, like in the moments right after some strong puja, like the one I described at the Ganesha temple in Utah, in another thread.

Best wishes

Aum Namasivaya

Shuddhasattva
20 June 2012, 08:49 AM
Namaste

I must say that I respectfully disagree with the idea that meditation is an advanced practice that needs extensive preparation to begin. It is certainly an advanced practice, and it certainly benefits from preparation and contiguous practice of the other disciplines (hence the progression of the eight arms of yoga), but it is a universally accessible practice that anyone and everyone can implement into their lives, to one degree or another, in one form or another.

Meditation is seizing the natural impulse for introspection and truth-finding, and applying it in a structured or intensified (by reason of the will-to-truth and commitment to completion) manner.

When we do mantra, it is supposed to be meditation. One learns the mantra, then one learns the dhyan of the devata. The mantra is shabdabrahman, nondifferent from the form of the deity upon which the concentration is to be fixed. The most basic (though no less profound or important) of all practices is namajapa, which leads into dhyan for all people.


Namaste

silence_speaks
20 June 2012, 08:51 AM
Dear mrudram,
:)

Thats why its more important to understand and work with the reasons that take us away from meditation.

Please see... Suppose you come home one day to find that your room is full of rain water. It means there were some leaks from which water seeped in. So its definitely useful to flush out the water, but whats more important is identify the leaks and block them.

Meditation is supposed to be our natural state. So what we need to work on is not how to "get to our natural state" but to see what exactly takes us away from our natural state. One has to discover that sahaja stiti and abide in it.

I hope this much is clear.

silence_speaks
20 June 2012, 09:01 AM
Always preparations for meditation are far more important than meditation.
When the mental mood is meditative, everything else falls in place ... absolutely straight.

This also explains why mind keeps moving to other things: the mental make up is not yet well set! :)

Eastern Mind
20 June 2012, 09:40 AM
Vannakkam Shuddasattva et al: I think a lot depends on your definition of meditation, when one thinks of it as advanced or not. I personally don't see any disagreement, as the definition I'm used to does involve a lot of training.

But of course the word is bandied about, and in many senses can apply to a lot of things, like japa, relaxation, thinking reflectively, enjoying bliss, etc. Its just that I personally don't call these things meditation. Whether or not someone else wants to is entirely up to them.

Aum Namasivaya

mradam83
20 June 2012, 10:43 AM
Namaste everyone.

Apologies if I do not reply singularly to your posts.

What I think my main issue is that I used to be able to do it naturally and it made such an impact when I did. I can't understand how I have got worse as I got older - is it possible that the more of a conscious effort one makes, the harder it can be?

From what Eastern mind said in his second post, I think I'm guilty of expecting too much of myself and beating myself up when I don't succeed. :-(

mradam83
20 June 2012, 10:44 AM
Namaste

I must say that I respectfully disagree with the idea that meditation is an advanced practice that needs extensive preparation to begin. It is certainly an advanced practice, and it certainly benefits from preparation and contiguous practice of the other disciplines (hence the progression of the eight arms of yoga), but it is a universally accessible practice that anyone and everyone can implement into their lives, to one degree or another, in one form or another.

Meditation is seizing the natural impulse for introspection and truth-finding, and applying it in a structured or intensified (by reason of the will-to-truth and commitment to completion) manner.

When we do mantra, it is supposed to be meditation. One learns the mantra, then one learns the dhyan of the devata. The mantra is shabdabrahman, nondifferent from the form of the deity upon which the concentration is to be fixed. The most basic (though no less profound or important) of all practices is namajapa, which leads into dhyan for all people.


Namaste

Namaste.

Apologies for asking such a simple question, but what Mantra is used?

mradam83
20 June 2012, 10:45 AM
Dear mrudram,
:)

Thats why its more important to understand and work with the reasons that take us away from meditation.

Please see... Suppose you come home one day to find that your room is full of rain water. It means there were some leaks from which water seeped in. So its definitely useful to flush out the water, but whats more important is identify the leaks and block them.

Meditation is supposed to be our natural state. So what we need to work on is not how to "get to our natural state" but to see what exactly takes us away from our natural state. One has to discover that sahaja stiti and abide in it.

I hope this much is clear.

Namaste,

Thank you for your replies.

Can I ask, do you have a method of clearing your mind at all?

yajvan
20 June 2012, 10:52 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


For one that takes up meditaition as a upāya¹ there are many approaches no doubt. I have read no less then 112 methods found in the vijñāna bhairava kārikā-s . The brillance of this work when in the hands of the competent muni ( teacher) uplifts the aspariant (student) and unfolds their experience of pure consciousness. Pending one's dispostion, focus, & intent, various techniques are available for each practitioner.

Yet you mention,

I struggle to even think my thoughts In an uninterrupted way - it feels like the older I get, the shorter my attention span is.
If the mind is wandering, no worries... The lord of the mind is the breath. Consider managing the breath and this will manage the mind. This is one firm place to begin.

praṇām

1. upāya - approach, technique, way to achieve.

Eastern Mind
20 June 2012, 11:26 AM
Vannakkam: Yajvan has made excellent point as it starts with the breath. In my Guru's method, after sitting straight and comfortable, that is the first place to put awareness, on pranayama, and once that is established, then to move on.
As for the difficulty of the matter, in Patanjali's 8 limbs, http://www.expressionsofspirit.com/yoga/eight-limbs.htm

please note that meditation is number 7, and if we take them as being sequential, it is pretty high on the list.

I had great difficulty sitting still as a young man, and then when the five kids came along, just working to feed them took much of my time (dharmicly) , so there were several years there when anything but a weekly temple visit was more or less out of the question.

I believe as we age, we often add more to the dross (subconscious) mind. Unless we are aware of this, and are able to release some of the emotional congestion as we travel along, indeed meditation would become even more difficult, just due to all the mindstuff that's in there. Similarly with the overly intellectual person. The mind is just so full that thoughts are jumping all over hither thither.

There is a 'pressure' to be able to meditate in certain circles, and coming from within. I think it is an influence from the west that goes back to one life versus reincarnation. There is no hurry. It is a natural outcome of the previous 6 limbs in Patanjali's sutras. So when you beat yourself up over it, it only adds further to the emotional congestion, which is practically a step backwards. So why not do stuff that you are capable of doing? It builds confidence, will, and all this can be carried into all future spiritual endeavours, and one day you'll be able to sit still through the night, having birds land on your head.

This 'pressure' can come from peers who are 'meditating' and it is not at all unlike any other form of teenage peer pressure. Many need to take a really good honest intellectual look at themselves. Whether or not a person is an effective meditator can often be seen the the actions while not meditating. Is anger under control? Is buying under control? Does the person do anything valuable for society and others? etc.

Aum Namasivaya

Shuddhasattva
20 June 2012, 11:39 AM
Namaste.

Apologies for asking such a simple question, but what Mantra is used?

Namaste

Any mantra. Any real mantra has a deity. That deity is to be visualized or otherwise focused on in essence when doing the mantra after sufficient practice with the mantra japa itself.

This is because mantra is shabdabrahman. Shabda is sound, and from the various levels of vibration, form is made manifest and differentiated in name. The mantra is the acoustic representation of the deity's form and essence. There's an excellent explanation of this concept in The Garland of Letters by John Woodroffe (Arthur Avalon).

Namaste

mradam83
20 June 2012, 12:56 PM
Namaste

Any mantra. Any real mantra has a deity. That deity is to be visualized or otherwise focused on in essence when doing the mantra after sufficient practice with the mantra japa itself.

This is because mantra is shabdabrahman. Shabda is sound, and from the various levels of vibration, form is made manifest and differentiated in name. The mantra is the acoustic representation of the deity's form and essence. There's an excellent explanation of this concept in The Garland of Letters by John Woodroffe (Arthur Avalon).

Namaste

Namaste.

Many thanks for this. I have downloaded a mantra/prayer app on my phone called ipuja. I will look through it and find the mantra that corresponds to Lakshmi, Ganesh etc.

mradam83
20 June 2012, 12:59 PM
Vannakkam: Yajvan has made excellent point as it starts with the breath. In my Guru's method, after sitting straight and comfortable, that is the first place to put awareness, on pranayama, and once that is established, then to move on.
As for the difficulty of the matter, in Patanjali's 8 limbs, http://www.expressionsofspirit.com/yoga/eight-limbs.htm

please note that meditation is number 7, and if we take them as being sequential, it is pretty high on the list.

I had great difficulty sitting still as a young man, and then when the five kids came along, just working to feed them took much of my time (dharmicly) , so there were several years there when anything but a weekly temple visit was more or less out of the question.

I believe as we age, we often add more to the dross (subconscious) mind. Unless we are aware of this, and are able to release some of the emotional congestion as we travel along, indeed meditation would become even more difficult, just due to all the mindstuff that's in there. Similarly with the overly intellectual person. The mind is just so full that thoughts are jumping all over hither thither.

There is a 'pressure' to be able to meditate in certain circles, and coming from within. I think it is an influence from the west that goes back to one life versus reincarnation. There is no hurry. It is a natural outcome of the previous 6 limbs in Patanjali's sutras. So when you beat yourself up over it, it only adds further to the emotional congestion, which is practically a step backwards. So why not do stuff that you are capable of doing? It builds confidence, will, and all this can be carried into all future spiritual endeavours, and one day you'll be able to sit still through the night, having birds land on your head.

This 'pressure' can come from peers who are 'meditating' and it is not at all unlike any other form of teenage peer pressure. Many need to take a really good honest intellectual look at themselves. Whether or not a person is an effective meditator can often be seen the the actions while not meditating. Is anger under control? Is buying under control? Does the person do anything valuable for society and others? etc.

Aum Namasivaya

Namaste.

What you say about adding to the subconscious mind is true in reflection - the older I've got, the more I've tended to stress about matters such as money and work etc. I should listen to the Gita more and realise that money is not a real thing per se and concentrate on what is real and I do have. Not easy though.

mradam83
20 June 2012, 01:01 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


For one that takes up meditaition as a upāya¹ there are many approaches no doubt. I have read no less then 112 methods found in the vijñāna bhairava kārikā-s . The brillance of this work when in the hands of the competent muni ( teacher) uplifts the aspariant (student) and unfolds their experience of pure consciousness. Pending one's dispostion, focus, & intent, various techniques are available for each practitioner.

Yet you mention,

If the mind is wandering, no worries... The lord of the mind is the breath. Consider managing the breath and this will manage the mind. This is one firm place to begin.

praṇām

1. upāya - approach, technique, way to achieve.

Namaste.

So would you say breath should flow and I should concentrate on it as a basic?

yajvan
20 June 2012, 05:48 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


Namaste.
So would you say breath should flow and I should concentrate on it as a basic?

Begin with the breath... If you have great interest , please send me an email and I will offer you a few pointers that may help.

It is basic yet very effective. It is something all can do.

praṇām

mradam83
20 June 2012, 06:04 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



Begin with the breath... If you have great interest , please send me an email and I will offer you a few pointers that may help.

It is basic yet very effective. It is something all can do.

praṇām


Namaste.

Please do. I will PM you my E-Mail address.

yajvan
20 June 2012, 06:40 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

We have many posts on aṣṭāṅga ( 8 limbs) of yoga, patañjali’s yogadarśana here on HDF. It seems a better understanding of the framework may be of interest...

The key to the 8 limbs is wholeness. The brilliance of patañjali’s insight & offering is the 8 limbs begin with satyaṁ and ends with samādhi. That is, we start from wholeness in seed-form and end with it fully bloomed in samādhi; yet these 8 limbs are not sequential.

It's as if we're baking a cake. All the ingredients are there together and the cake rises at the same time when in the oven ( tapas). Like that, all 8 ingredients of yoga work together and the cake rises, you rise up out of ignorance.

This is the brillance of the offer. Many think ' oh I cannot capture this samādhi , I will ty it later after I become perficient in the other yama's' . This is not the case - samādhi¹ is one of the 8 ingredients to make the cake rise. In the beginning this experience of samādhi may be short lived but is the building block for experiences down the road to expand in time.
While it is doing this, all the other limbs begin to take root. Just like a root it is underground. It takes a little time for one of the stems to shoot up above the ground and we then take note - and continue the practice.


praṇām

references

More on samādhi is reviewed on this HDF post:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=8070&highlight=sam%26%23257%3Bdhi (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=8070&highlight=sam%26%23257%3Bdhi)

Eastern Mind
20 June 2012, 07:01 PM
Vannakkam: Some consider the practise Patanjali coded as limbs; others consider them as rungs. Some consider it (the system) sequential, and other see it more as a simultaneous practice. In reality, its probably some of both.

I found this explanation: http://swamij.com/yoga-sutras-22629.htm Not sure of the sampradaya of the source.

One thing I'm sure of ... I have not personally touched limb 8 ... not even close. But all glories to those who have.

Aum Namasivaya

mradam83
20 June 2012, 07:05 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

We have many posts on aṣṭāṅga ( 8 limbs) of yoga, patañjali’s yogadarśana here on HDF. It seems a better understanding of the framework may be of interest...

The key to the 8 limbs is wholeness. The brilliance of patañjali’s insight & offering is the 8 limbs begin with satyaṁ and ends with samādhi. That is, we start from wholeness in seed-form and end with it fully bloomed in samādhi; yet these 8 limbs are not sequential.

It's as if we're baking a cake. All the ingredients are there together and the cake rises at the same time when in the oven ( tapas). Like that, all 8 ingredients of yoga work together and the cake rises, you rise up out of ignorance.

This is the brillance of the offer. Many think ' oh I cannot capture this samādhi , I will ty it later after I become perficient in the other yama's' . This is not the case - samādhi¹ is one of the 8 ingredients to make the cake rise. In the beginning this experience of samādhi may be short lived but is the building block for experiences down the road to expand in time.
While it is doing this, all the other limbs begin to take root. Just like a root it is underground. It takes a little time for one of the stems to shoot up above the ground and we then take note - and continue the practice.


praṇām

references

More on samādhi is reviewed on this HDF post:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=8070&highlight=sam%26%23257%3Bdhi

Namaste.

Ah Ashtanga, I did try it but from a secular teacher and had to stop going for one reason or another.

I never realised that Ashtanga was genuinely spiritual thing - I wish I did know that.

How would the teaching differ in having a true Yogi as opposed to a secular and non Hindu teacher?

It makes sense about likening to a plant growing. I understand breath flowing is like water to a growing plant?

mradam83
20 June 2012, 07:07 PM
Vannakkam: Some consider the practise Patanjali coded as limbs; others consider them as rungs. Some consider it (the system) sequential, and other see it more as a simultaneous practice. In reality, its probably some of both.

I found this explanation: http://swamij.com/yoga-sutras-22629.htm Not sure of the sampradaya of the source.

One thing I'm sure of ... I have not personally touched limb 8 ... not even close. But all glories to those who have.

Aum Namasivaya

Namaste.

I would imagine limb 8 to be very hard to achieve in the west. I imagine going to somewhere like India to be very beneficial.

yajvan
20 June 2012, 09:33 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


Some consider the practise Patanjali coded as limbs; others consider them as rungs. Some consider it (the system) sequential, and other see it more as a simultaneous practice. In reality, its probably some of both.
Yes, no doubt people have seen this as rungs on a latter or ~ steps~ suggesting one-after-the-other ... why so ?
Because of the nominclature found in patañjali’s yogadarśana :

samādhi pada
sādhana pada
vibhūti pada
kevala padaPada ( some write pāda) means foot , it also means one-quarter. As we can see patañjali’s yogadarśana has 4 quarters or 4 pāda-s. Yet too one must also be aware that pāda means 'a ray or beam of light' . So , using pāda is very attractive.


Also we must consider thr idea of aṣṭāṅga ( 8 limbs) yoga ... limbs are aṅga; they are connected to and work in concert with the body (whole, aṅgī ). So when we look at it from this POV it is all about the limbs working together as a whole. I water a plant and the whole plant is nourshed. Like that, a person experiences pure awareness in thier practice and the whole system is nourshed.

So, as I have been taught it is the norushment of samādhi that allows all the 8 limbs to flourish. I have found this to be true in practice.

praṇām

silence_speaks
20 June 2012, 11:31 PM
Dear mrudram,
:) Mind is an instrument, its function is to aid us.
For example... suppose i am sleeping in a dark room and I hear some sound, its the mind's function to warn us.
The mind is "Designed" to create appropriate emotions etc.

Now the problem is we cognize ourselves wrongly. If we cognize ourselves wrongly, consequently we fear. Its exactly like a person who took a rope for a snake ... the fear is there. Now, the mind is projecting fear and in doing so its doing its duty. its doing well.

The problem is wrong cognition of a rope as a snake. That error in cognition is all one needs to correct and this error in cognition is with reference to ourselves , as to who I am .

The mind is doing a wonderful job ... only its working on a wrong premise as to who I am. Thats where the correction is required. Without correcting the wrong cognition one cannot calm the mind. The mind can be lulled into calmness through various methods. They are all fine. But what after they are lulled? the leaks of the agitation and worry etc need to be blocked. Thats more important.

Seeker
20 June 2012, 11:31 PM
Few suggestions.

Preparations:

Time of meditation: Early morning or late evening, when the worldly noises are low and your need to engage the world could be avoided.

Place of meditation: Uncluttered clean place. Clean air helps. You can enhance it with incense sticks.

Posture: Lotus (crisscross applesauce) position – if not possible, you can have a chair. Spine being erect is important.

Others: Try to minimize sensory interruptions & discomforts. If your lotus posture brings you discomfort, get a chair. Wear lose clothing’s – avoid tight jeans. If your place is noisy, you can use an ear plug,. Close your eyes during meditation to remove visual disturbances. Switch off the cell phone, and if possible disconnect your regular phone. (Remember to connect it later). If you have a tendency to sleep or want to limit the time, set up an alarm. Setting up an alarm will take your worry away from the need to be time conscious during meditation.


Meditation itself:

You can start with soft chants of OM , followed by mindful inhale & exhale. Focus on the breathing as the air flows above the nasal bridge. It will help you focus. You can start with this process for 5 minutes, and can expand this to half an hour in a years’ time (for me it was a long haul!). In due course you will learn to be watchful of external thoughts entering you , and you will be able to send them away.

Slowly as days progress you will be able to quite the noises of your mind. Once that happens, you will find out the rest yourself. After that you may find that you can skip some of the prep work needed for a beginner.

mradam83
21 June 2012, 04:49 AM
Few suggestions.

Preparations:

Time of meditation: Early morning or late evening, when the worldly noises are low and your need to engage the world could be avoided.

Place of meditation: Uncluttered clean place. Clean air helps. You can enhance it with incense sticks.

Posture: Lotus (crisscross applesauce) position – if not possible, you can have a chair. Spine being erect is important.

Others: Try to minimize sensory interruptions & discomforts. If your lotus posture brings you discomfort, get a chair. Wear lose clothing’s – avoid tight jeans. If your place is noisy, you can use an ear plug,. Close your eyes during meditation to remove visual disturbances. Switch off the cell phone, and if possible disconnect your regular phone. (Remember to connect it later). If you have a tendency to sleep or want to limit the time, set up an alarm. Setting up an alarm will take your worry away from the need to be time conscious during meditation.


Meditation itself:

You can start with soft chants of OM , followed by mindful inhale & exhale. Focus on the breathing as the air flows above the nasal bridge. It will help you focus. You can start with this process for 5 minutes, and can expand this to half an hour in a years’ time (for me it was a long haul!). In due course you will learn to be watchful of external thoughts entering you , and you will be able to send them away.

Slowly as days progress you will be able to quite the noises of your mind. Once that happens, you will find out the rest yourself. After that you may find that you can skip some of the prep work needed for a beginner.

Namaste.

Thank you for the advice.

I have been trying the lotus position but I can not seem to make it work at all. How does it relax you - if anything it just hurts my legs?

My biggest obstacles are external thoughts - Even whilst conscious I have many thoughts a minute whizzing around in my head. This is the thing I know if I can combat it, it will move me along nicely.

mradam83
21 June 2012, 04:54 AM
Dear mrudram,
:) Mind is an instrument, its function is to aid us.
For example... suppose i am sleeping in a dark room and I hear some sound, its the mind's function to warn us.
The mind is "Designed" to create appropriate emotions etc.

Now the problem is we cognize ourselves wrongly. If we cognize ourselves wrongly, consequently we fear. Its exactly like a person who took a rope for a snake ... the fear is there. Now, the mind is projecting fear and in doing so its doing its duty. its doing well.

The problem is wrong cognition of a rope as a snake. That error in cognition is all one needs to correct and this error in cognition is with reference to ourselves , as to who I am .

The mind is doing a wonderful job ... only its working on a wrong premise as to who I am. Thats where the correction is required. Without correcting the wrong cognition one cannot calm the mind. The mind can be lulled into calmness through various methods. They are all fine. But what after they are lulled? the leaks of the agitation and worry etc need to be blocked. Thats more important.

Namaste,

This reminds me a lot of Gita 2:47 about never letting the fruits of an action be the reward.

yajvan
21 June 2012, 02:31 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


Namaste,
This reminds me a lot of Gita 2:47 about never letting the fruits of an action be the reward.

But what is the wisdom here ? Should arjun not desire a favorable outcome to the war ? This śloka makes sense once one incorporates the wisdom that is offered in śloka-s 2.45 through 2.48. Then the brilliance of kṛṣṇa-jī's teaching comes to full bloom.

This is something we have spent considerable time on within other posts on HDF, yet should be revisited. Perhaps a new thread on this matter is
warranted.

praṇām

mradam83
21 June 2012, 04:02 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



But what is the wisdom here ? Should arjun not desire a favorable outcome to the war ? This śloka makes sense once one incorporates the wisdom that is offered in śloka-s 2.45 through 2.48. Then the brilliance of kṛṣṇa-jī's teaching comes to full bloom.

This is something we have spent considerable time on within other posts on HDF, yet should be revisited. Perhaps a new thread on this matter is
warranted.

praṇām

Namaste.

When you read Sloka's 2.45-48, I would say it's telling Arjuna to stop battling specifically for the fruits of the war but to battle instead as its his duty to battle - if he battles to be the victor, this is undesirable.

yajvan
21 June 2012, 05:08 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté





But what is the wisdom here ? Should arjun not desire a favorable outcome to the war ? This śloka makes sense once one incorporates the wisdom that is offered in śloka-s 2.45 through 2.48. Then the brilliance of kṛṣṇa-jī's teaching comes to full bloom.

The offering from kṛṣṇa-jī is skill in action:

be without the 3 guna-s, possessed of the Self (ātman) - 2.45
it is the 3 guna-s, in the final analysis, that all actions take place - 3.27
you have control over action alone, never its fruits - 2.47
eastablished in yoga ( union) perform actions - 2.48These together bring skill in action... what is the skill ? Actions that do not bind. Actions that are supported by the laws of nature, dharma.

This is the practical benefits of being established in the SELF (ātman). This is the bhāgavad gītā's offer in chapters 1 to 6.

praṇām

mradam83
21 June 2012, 06:58 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté




The offering from kṛṣṇa-jī is skill in action:

be without the 3 guna-s, possessed of the Self (ātman) - 2.45
it is the 3 guna-s, in the final analysis, that all actions take place - 3.27
you have control over action alone, never its fruits - 2.47
eastablished in yoga ( union) perform actions - 2.48These together bring skill in action... what is the skill ? Actions that do not bind. Actions that are supported by the laws of nature, dharma.

This is the practical benefits of being established in the SELF (ātman). This is the bhāgavad gītā's offer in chapters 1 to 6.

praṇām

Namaste.

Oh, I didn't realise it interlinked such as this - I realise I have a lot to learn about the Gita.

Pranams.

Seeker
21 June 2012, 09:21 PM
Namaste.

Thank you for the advice.

I have been trying the lotus position but I can not seem to make it work at all. How does it relax you - if anything it just hurts my legs?



Namaste mradam83 ji,

I have found that lotus position to be the best way to maintain vertical spine for long period.

mradam83
22 June 2012, 10:56 AM
Namaste mradam83 ji,

I have found that lotus position to be the best way to maintain vertical spine for long period.

Namaste.

I have tried the Lotus, although I have some difficulty with it.

Would the half lotus suffice until I can properly do the full Lotus?

Pranams.

yajvan
22 June 2012, 12:41 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



Would the half lotus suffice until I can properly do the full Lotus?

āsana is a seat, sitting, it is also a posture. Yet if we look at the roots of this word we have ā+sana. This sana is 'lasting long' , it is also 'gaining and acquisition'.

What of this ā ? It has many definitions and uses. Yet it too is defined in the masciline gender as śiva and in the feminine gender as lakṣmī.
So this ā+sana is that posture (āsana) that one gains (sana) śiva (ā).

What is important ? It is the silence that is created within that posture (āsana ). If there is dis-comfort then one's attention is not turned inward but focused on the discomfort .

Hence in the beginning during one's practice it is about sitting comfortably. If one wishes to practice various poses this is all well and good. When one can sit with comfort, within a pose while practicing their methods of meditation - all well and good.

So it seems to make sense to pactice the various poses outside of ones time of silence till the pose can be accomplsihed with little effort and great comfort.

praṇām

mradam83
22 June 2012, 05:10 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


āsana is a seat, sitting, it is also a posture. Yet if we look at the roots of this word we have ā+sana. This sana is 'lasting long' , it is also 'gaining and acquisition'.

What of this ā ? It has many definitions and uses. Yet it too is defined in the masciline gender as śiva and in the feminine gender as lakṣmī.
So this ā+sana is that posture (āsana) that one gains (sana) śiva (ā).

What is important ? It is the silence that is created within that posture (āsana ). If there is dis-comfort then one's attention is not turned inward but focused on the discomfort .

Hence in the beginning during one's practice it is about sitting comfortably. If one wishes to practice various poses this is all well and good. When one can sit with comfort, within a pose while practicing their methods of meditation - this is all well and good.

So it seems to make sense to pactice the various poses outside of ones time of silence till the pose can be accomplsihed with little effort and great comfort.

praṇām

Namaste,

Good point - I think if I concern myself with stance in the beginning it will make me lose sight of what I'm trying to achieve I think.

Pranams.

silence_speaks
23 June 2012, 09:59 PM
Dear mrudram83,
:) In the beginning what one should focus upon is really the correct attitude. If a person is sleepy, he falls asleep irrespective of the position.
So for sleeping is a cozy bed important ... yes & no. Depends on how sleepy one is feeling. If one is really feeling sleepy, even if a cozy bed is not there, one simply lies on the floor and falls asleep. And if one is not feeling sleepy even on the best bed, one simply lies awake!

So in the beginning one should concentrate on getting into meditative mood... how ? Listen to the teachings of right kind of saints. One who has Seen the Truth can show you the Truth. One who has not seen cannot show either. So One needs to find a teacher who knows the Truth and liten to him... Through that Sravanam one would get the right kind of mood and then standing is meditation, walking is meditation, sitting is meditation etc. Evrything is "Meditative" !

and yes for getting established in it, one may practise regular meditation sitting.

BTW, the best sitting posture that I can think of: place a small pillow below the back so tht spine gets a little elevation and sit with folded legs, one leg over the other... no "interlocking". This is also termed sukha asana.

mradam83
24 June 2012, 06:19 PM
Dear mrudram83,
:) In the beginning what one should focus upon is really the correct attitude. If a person is sleepy, he falls asleep irrespective of the position.
So for sleeping is a cozy bed important ... yes & no. Depends on how sleepy one is feeling. If one is really feeling sleepy, even if a cozy bed is not there, one simply lies on the floor and falls asleep. And if one is not feeling sleepy even on the best bed, one simply lies awake!

So in the beginning one should concentrate on getting into meditative mood... how ? Listen to the teachings of right kind of saints. One who has Seen the Truth can show you the Truth. One who has not seen cannot show either. So One needs to find a teacher who knows the Truth and liten to him... Through that Sravanam one would get the right kind of mood and then standing is meditation, walking is meditation, sitting is meditation etc. Evrything is "Meditative" !

and yes for getting established in it, one may practise regular meditation sitting.

BTW, the best sitting posture that I can think of: place a small pillow below the back so tht spine gets a little elevation and sit with folded legs, one leg over the other... no "interlocking". This is also termed sukha asana.

Namaste,

I had my first day at meditation today - it went very well.

By looking at YouTube, it has lots of good resources with regards to readings, mantras etc so I will have a look in more detail.

If I find anything particularly great, I shall indeed share.