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yajvan
24 January 2007, 07:15 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~
Namaste,

This question of renunciation has pondered many a seeker for the millennium. What are your thoughts here? Here's a few ideas. Please add to the conversation.

The house holder (grhastha) has struggled with this - " I have my family duty yet I seek enlightenment- how do I leave my responsibilities?" . How does one reconcile this?

The notion of renunciation is to give up or renounce . What is one giving up? It’s the notion that what I see around me, is not me. That " I am not this" - I renounce that I am not that ( niti niti !! as the wise say). I am not change/relative field of life. I am THAT ( unchanging all pervading SELF).

With this , we can renounce 2X per day when we transcend or meditiate - we are "giving up" the relative field of life and grooming our awareness to become established in the SELF 7x24x365.

...What are they doing anyway?

Some choose to become a sanyasa - "sam" = complete, make perfect and "ni" = down + "as" = to throw . With sanyasa" to throw down completely/to make perfect" . To throw down the relative world completely and pursue Kevalya or Liberation full time. It’s the decision and fullness of intent is needed to pursue this goal . Its also considered the last stage in human life after all duty has been performed in
The other 3 stages. (These stages are called asrama ~ halting place and 4 stages of life).

Some say sanyas, or priests are perhaps hiding from the pressures of life… who are we to judge. We are on this path and NO ONE will be left behind - " no effort is ever lost" says Krsna to Arjuna. It may take a few trips to get it right. All should be praised for the effort and intent to reach Atman.

It's when the time is right , one should consider this sanyasin stage, yet it is not for all. The goal, albeit sanyasin or grhastha (householder) is to improve and develop. This can be called sanskrtam - or "sam" - to complete/make perfect + "kr" = to do like. Some say sanskrtam is to polish and make perfect.


Brahmavid brahmaiva bhavati
The knower of Brahman is Brahman itself - Mundaka Upanishad

Znanna
24 January 2007, 08:15 PM
It seems to me that accepting all is the mirror image (counterparty?) of renunciation.

YMMV :)


Love,
ZN

sm78
25 January 2007, 12:36 AM
Renounciation is a relative concept ... letting go one thing for sake of another.

This "letting go" and "clinging to" OR "tyaga" and "bhoga" are two sides of the same movement of human development and his quest to be satisfied.

The penny-less sannyasi or tyagi who has let go all material possessions is really a bhogi of a inner happiness he has discovered. He is perhaves enjoying a blissful state and is satisfied for the moment. If his state is not that of highest purushottama, sooner or later the yogi will find that all has not been answered and he will renounce the happiness and bliss he had in search of further truth.

Renounciation as a dogma means nothing, but true renounciation is a fact of life and everybody practices it.

Focus should be on development and not tyaga or bhoga. In the path of development one will automatically be a tyagi (and a bhogi), till there is nothing more to let go and nothing more to seek.

sm78
25 January 2007, 12:44 AM
It seems to me that accepting all is the mirror image (counterparty?) of renunciation.

YMMV :)


Love,
ZN

Accepting all that happens in one's life ?

yajvan
25 January 2007, 01:52 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~


This "letting go" and "clinging to" OR "tyaga" and "bhoga" are two sides of the same movement of human development and his quest to be satisfied.

Focus should be on development .....
Namaste sm78,
what you say is true...that is why it is fruitless to think one can not have desires also. We think the desire for the Divine is more noble then a desire for a car... true for me, yet a desire is a desire.

And Development - so true ..this is the area of focus. That is why one can be a house holder or the sanyas. Its the intent for development that is the core issue. The development of Turiya is for all... since it is ubiquitious /omnipresent , it is there for all that wishes to pursue.


thank you for your post....

Znanna
25 January 2007, 05:14 PM
Accepting all that happens in one's life ?


Well, yeah.

(Mommy always said everything happens for a reason.)

I like to think of it like a sword and water. Can a sword cut water? It is the resisting of the cut of the blade which draws blood, to my way of thinking.

But, accepting the reviled, and saying I AM that as well ... this is part of my balance.

I am a servant, SHe is Mistress.



ZN

yajvan
25 January 2007, 06:20 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

.

I struggle with renunciation in terms of accepting death and change. I find myself holding onto the fear of losing people and pets and things.
...

I take comfort in the fact that our bodies are shells.
When I meditate and rest in the Divine I see death a whole different way than if I let myself drift into the muck of the mind.

Namaste MG,
You bring to light some salient points... when we loose something we feel less whole. This wholeness is our divine nature.

The fear part is also of interest... many will come to you and talk of your infinite nature, etc, etc. and one should not yield to this feeling but the fear is still there , yes?
There are two parts to this... some say one fears death because they must of had that experience before. And fear is pointed out as one of the 5 klesa's ( also known as Viparyaya , or false knowledge) and they are nescience or ignorance of the SELF, egoism, attachment, hate, and the fear of death. This is called out in Patanjaliji's sutras. The 'offical' names are tamas, moha, mahamoha, tamisra, and andhatamisra.

Its of a curious nature to me that I do not have this fear of death... my jyotish guru pointed this out to me, a secret I have never told anyone, yet he pointed this out to me, without me asking. Does that make me better than anyone else... nope, as I wrestle with the othe 4 other klesa's.

I do find myself extreamely saddened with the death of others, not for their sake, as I know they are being taken care of, but of the loss others feel from the passing of a freind, a wife, pet, a loved one. That they now feel less whole. Thus, we can know things intelliectully on the nature of the spirit , yet the heart and feelings take over when there is grief. For this, I look to the balanced mind of living in enlightenment - the same in pleasure and pain, as Keshava points out in the Gita.

Thank you for bringing this insight and sharing your thoughts.

sm78
25 January 2007, 07:10 PM
And, of course, my ego hates the thought of death. ;) The horror of that. ha ha

We don't know whether there is a horror in death ~ the horror is the life ending ;).. particularly if the death appears particularly horrific--like the type we hear most these days.

With regard to horrific deaths it may bring solace to know that the person dying is suffering much less than it appears to the eye of an observer. Ofcourse I don't know that yet personally, but I believe the words more the cent percent and it is also very rational.

Znanna
25 January 2007, 07:43 PM
Facing death tends to encourage jumping out of status quo.

"I'd give anything for ..."



ZN