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ShivaIsLord
13 July 2012, 02:15 AM
Namaste,

I have been having a huge argument on a Muslim forum (ShiaChat) about the partition of Bahrat. Basically, I want to know if my arguments are considered valid?

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/235003868-pakistan/page__view__findpost__p__2438466

That is my main rebuttal. Please let me know if I am correct or incorrect.

Thanks

Om Namah Shivaya

P.S. Arguing with nationalistic Muslims is impossible.

McKitty
13 July 2012, 02:21 AM
Vanakkam!

Well hum...i can.t really help on this one but I can assure you something: arguing with nationalistes, wherever they come from, is ALWAYS impossible =/

Aum Namah Shivaya

Shuddhasattva
13 July 2012, 02:27 AM
Namaste

Only that Punjab, much less pre-partition Greater Punjab did not belong to the Sikhs.

wundermonk
13 July 2012, 02:31 AM
@SIL:


You are a Muslim. Pretend that all Muslims are Shia, and Saudi is the great Islamic country. Now imagine that Hindus invaded, divided up the holy land, killed/tortured/raped/displaced Muslims, and then took half of the land. Would this be acceptable to you? It does not matter your religion, it is an atrocity anyway. Now imagine how the Sikhs feel. Punjab was their land. Do you realize how inconvenient it was for Pakistan to pop up? Muslims don't even have a claim to India. India is a melting pot of many religions, and no one religion has an entire claim to it. It's kind of interesting that Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists, etc all live in harmony in one country, but Muslims had to divide it and create their own country.

This is spot on. My guess is that Pakistanis will not have an answer to this. They may try the now (in)famous Zakir Naik 2+2=4 logic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHpd2T7mi5c) to justify the creation of a Muslim-only country. You see, when one is so sure of one's religion so as to equate it to a mathematical truth, there is very little reasoning possible to be open to other religious ideas.

As I see it, Pakistan faces a crisis because it is unable to have a good raison d'etre. The 1971 episode where Bangladesh was made free established that religion cannot be a basis of nationhood. All of its pre-Mughal culture is Dharmic and based on Eastern ideas. So, there is a strong tendency in Pakistan to not talk of its pre-Mughal legacy. So, the history and pride for Pakistanis stems from the fact that Turks/Arabs/Persians began their destruction of Hinduism/India by destroying Pakistan first!

Have you watched the movie "Animal House"? One of the good scenes in the movie is when Kevin Bacon is initiated into a fraternity house (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFLPn30dvQ). His a!se gets whipped but he still says "Thank you Sir! May I have another?" That is pretty much what Pakistanis have to say to cultures from the Middle East.

Additionally, because Urdu borrows from the Arabic script, there is a strong tendency amongst Muslims in the subcontinent to use this over and above their original language that derives from Sanskrit (Devanagari). Bengali derives from Sanskrit and this was one of the major reasons why West Pakistan (dominated mostly by Punjabi Muslims) could not get along with East Pakistan (dominated by Bengali Muslims).

Believer
13 July 2012, 11:30 AM
Namaste,

I have been having a huge argument on a Muslim forum ......
One of the things I would be telling them is:

Look at your family trees and each one of you will find a Hindu at the top. You are the descendents of forcibly converted Hindus. Ethnically, you are not different from us, and why don't you re-embrace the religion of your forefathers? Why do you stick to this imposed 'faith' of outsiders? You were humiliated and converted into slavery of this alien faith, it's time you threw away the yoke and realized what your glorious past was, and celebrated it. So, give up your imposed ways and adopt your sacred/ancestral/Hindu ways. If you did the right thing by embracing your past heritage, you would not need to have a separate country.

Let me know how this argument goes.

Pranam.

ShivaFan
13 July 2012, 06:18 PM
Brilliant, Believer! Well said.
Jai Hind

sayak83
17 August 2012, 01:09 PM
@SIL:



This is spot on. My guess is that Pakistanis will not have an answer to this. They may try the now (in)famous Zakir Naik 2+2=4 logic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHpd2T7mi5c) to justify the creation of a Muslim-only country. You see, when one is so sure of one's religion so as to equate it to a mathematical truth, there is very little reasoning possible to be open to other religious ideas.

As I see it, Pakistan faces a crisis because it is unable to have a good raison d'etre. The 1971 episode where Bangladesh was made free established that religion cannot be a basis of nationhood. All of its pre-Mughal culture is Dharmic and based on Eastern ideas. So, there is a strong tendency in Pakistan to not talk of its pre-Mughal legacy. So, the history and pride for Pakistanis stems from the fact that Turks/Arabs/Persians began their destruction of Hinduism/India by destroying Pakistan first!

Have you watched the movie "Animal House"? One of the good scenes in the movie is when Kevin Bacon is initiated into a fraternity house (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFLPn30dvQ). His a!se gets whipped but he still says "Thank you Sir! May I have another?" That is pretty much what Pakistanis have to say to cultures from the Middle East.

Additionally, because Urdu borrows from the Arabic script, there is a strong tendency amongst Muslims in the subcontinent to use this over and above their original language that derives from Sanskrit (Devanagari). Bengali derives from Sanskrit and this was one of the major reasons why West Pakistan (dominated mostly by Punjabi Muslims) could not get along with East Pakistan (dominated by Bengali Muslims).

I would have no problem with all of this if today Pakistan, Bangladesh and India all were rich and propsperous countries friendly to each other and the enormous no. of lives lost due to the botched up "Partition" job were a cause of coming together in both solidarity and honest fact finding. Nothing like that has ever happened probably because the regional and national leaders had much to lose from such things. 1 million people killed and millions displaced, to what end?