what about Maa Kâli ?

[McKitty]

Vanakkam everyone !

I would like to know more about Maa Kali and her symbolism, her actions, her stories...I searched on internet but didn't find any satisfying material, and to be honest, I respect and bow to Maa Kali as a form of the supreme Mother, but I cannot meditate on Her since I'm really frightened by her appearance. Even thinking about Her, I become agitated and quickly seek refuge at the feets of Maa Durga to peace my mind.

Yet I have a real strong desire to know her more. I feel it can help me understand the world and the teachings of Sri Sri Ramakrishna better.

I would like to know too why she scares me so hard. I mean, I'm less scared by Sri Sri Maa Pratyangira Devi than Maa Kali ! Maybe by understanding her better, it would dissipate my ignorance and help to gain more knowledge in the Path.


So, if a knowledgable Shakta would be kind to enlighten an ignorant woman, I thank you from the deep of my heart !


Aum Namah Shivaya

Jai jai mata di !

[Vasa]

Namaste.

This thread may help.

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=4823

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

In addition to the wonderful information already provided, tbere is a member of the forum called Kali Bhakta who I feel can share some very direct sources and books on The Devi Kali Mother.

I am not in a position to offer much, but only from one insight as a gift from others I might add one small mention.

Sometimes Kali has come to a very few, of which in the histories of three saints I have heard in story including Trailinga, where Kali came before a human in the form of a young girl.

Sometimes these things are difficult to explain, but in part and coming from an unauthorized person such as myself, this aspect is not just a young girl but all of womenkind today which is still a child but in the future fises like the sun rise before a very hot day, when this child will become a Woman, all women, in the future, a rise of Womenhood at a future time still to come.

But these things are not to do with materialism.

To me personally, Kali always calls me to come to Her home, a pitha called by me Calcutta, today called Kolkata and many other names. She is there, there is no question about it.

[Shanti29]

I feel very close to her, to all forms of Shiva actually. I love ferociousness. She reminds me not to internalise my anger. I do not focus on material items, prestige and power when I think of her, only clothed with the limbs and heads of her enemies. I try to help the downtrodden like she would. :) Kali is a mother after all so there is no reason to be afraid of her. You can rest your head on her lap and be comforted.

http://youtu.be/VnDB31O7-fg - A short vid on understanding Kali Maa. You've probably already familiar with most of it but the music and imagery should help see her in a new light.

http://youtu.be/6UgveOFNYyQ - Jai Maa Kali

http://youtu.be/fmHg_mA5ASg - Dance of Kali

http://youtu.be/Jt5SFjtChdc - Jai Maa Kali from the movie Karan Arjun. This is one of my all time favourites and not just because Kajol and SRK are in it.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


Vanakkam everyone !
I would like to know more about Maa Kali and her symbolism, her actions, her stories...

Perhaps you will find this HDF posting of interest:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3226

praṇām

[MahaHrada]

I respect and bow to Maa Kali as a form of the supreme Mother, but I cannot meditate on Her since I'm really frightened by her appearance.


Aum Namah Shivaya

Jai jai mata di !

Actually that Kali is called mother does not say anything about her nature, it rather describes the preferred mood of the bhakta, who conceives of her as a Mother, deliberately ignoring other aspects, for his own good. For instance if a delinquent does adress a judge "O ocean of grace, have mercy on me" does that make the judge an ocean of mercy? No-it is mereley an effort to adress the merciful aspect of his nature rather than the cruel.

There are several moods in which a bhakta can adress the deity usually they are enumerated as Shanta, (peaceful) Dasya (servant, child), Sakhya, (friendship) Vatsalya (caring,motherly) and Madhurya (as spouse) Bhavas.

These different attitudes or moods do not reveal to us the true nature of the deity but they solely relate to the mind of the devotee.

That Kali is perceived as a caring Mother is therefore at first sight a little misleading, one should not judge her nature according to emotional customizing of the bhakti movement.

Even if she is adressed as mother her true nature is destructive. She is the process of Samhara, the dissolution of the universe. She is also the so called mystical Samvarta Fire that flames up at the close of a cosmic cylcle and entirely reduces everything to ashes. She even swallows up time.

[McKitty]

Vanakkam,

Thank you all for those answer, it's very useful ! Escpecially the tread you linked, it's very full and informative, everything I needed to understand the postures and symbolism of Kali Maa !

@MahaHrada

Oh don't worry, I do not have any intend to become a Kali Bhakta. It was more for knowledge sake. I have read yesterday that the Shakta/Bhakti seeing Kali as supreme Mother is not very old.
Everything I have read and understand about Her is very clear, I acknowledge that she is the most profound aspect of the bottom of the ocean, the most destructive aspect of all. Yet I acknowledge too that, being that, she contain the whole universe. She is the perfect embodiment of pure action.
What she is doesn't stop me from bowing to her, acknowledging her role in the manifested and unmanifested universe.
Being a bhakta is also having knowledge and openess. This include learning, and following the advices of guru and more knwledgable people like you.

Lord Shivaji is the Supreme Lord in my heart, but what is Shiva without Shakti ? Without Parvati Devi, Annapurna Devi, Durga Maa ? Shiva is potential creation, infinite power, but without action there is no creation.

Without waves, ocean is just a flat mirror.

Thank you very much for your andwers and advices !

Aum Namah Shivaya

[Jainarayan]

Namaste.


These different attitudes or moods do not reveal to us the true nature of the deity but they solely relate to the mind of the devotee.

Though I am a self-identified Vaishnava, I see Maa Kali in that light... in my mind as just one aspect of the Divine Mother, an aspect of God as Mother and Father. In my mind, Maa Kali is like the she-bear or she-wolf who will attack and savage anyone or anything that threatens her cubs. The cubs see their mother as nothing more than their mother who cares for them. They don't understand, know or care what her ferocity is or what her other attributes or behaviors are, only that she is there for them. Why should they?

This is just my view.

[Shanti29]

They don't understand, know or care what her ferocity is or what her other attributes or behaviors are, only that she is there for them. Why should they?

This is just my view.

Completely insulting. You are a Vaishnava. Obviously you will find Vishnu and his various avatars more pleasing to the eye and approachable but how can you insult that which you do not understand?
Do you think we are mindless devotees only seeking shelter from a Goddess that looks ferocious?
We lack understanding?
Your reply really says more about you than anything.
We are not all Vaishanavas. We are not all of the same nature and temperament. We do not see the world through the same lens.

[MahaHrada]

Vanakkam,

Thank you all for those answer, it's very useful ! Escpecially the tread you linked, it's very full and informative, everything I needed to understand the postures and symbolism of Kali Maa !

@MahaHrada

Oh don't worry, I do not have any intend to become a Kali Bhakta. It was more for knowledge sake. I have read yesterday that the Shakta/Bhakti seeing Kali as supreme Mother is not very old.
Everything I have read and understand about Her is very clear, I acknowledge that she is the most profound aspect of the bottom of the ocean, the most destructive aspect of all. Yet I acknowledge too that, being that, she contain the whole universe. She is the perfect embodiment of pure action.
What she is doesn't stop me from bowing to her, acknowledging her role in the manifested and unmanifested universe.
Being a bhakta is also having knowledge and openess. This include learning, and following the advices of guru and more knwledgable people like you.

Lord Shivaji is the Supreme Lord in my heart, but what is Shiva without Shakti ? Without Parvati Devi, Annapurna Devi, Durga Maa ? Shiva is potential creation, infinite power, but without action there is no creation.

Without waves, ocean is just a flat mirror.

Thank you very much for your andwers and advices !

Aum Namah Shivaya

Thank you for your kind appreciation,
I was not concerned about you becoming a Shakti bhakta, but Ramakrishna was a Kali Bhakta, not a tantric, so thats why his attitude to Kali was one of a child and his mother.
For a tantric she is not so much the mother but on a cosmic level the samvarta fire or on the personal level, the fire of ones own funeral pyre, or the ascending Kundalini which is one and the same principle.
The emotional attitude of child and mother is not in the foreground of the view of the tantric sadhak, but the experience of the dissolution of the constituents of the world (tattvas) and the mind by the force of Kali as Kundalini in his own self. Here technically she is one with the devottee (samarasa) there is no emotion of difference between the Guru, the devata (Kali) Kundalini and one´s own self.
If you have the wish to understand Ramakrishna better, as per your posting, you must consider the different mood swings that are typical of the bhakta path.
But generally Kali is a Goddess that is best approached by the tantric path, that is her origin and that is where her activities and symbolism make the most sense. A tantric is emotionally more disciplined than a bhakta.

[MahaHrada]

posting appeared double deleted

[Jainarayan]

Completely insulting. You are a Vaishnava. Obviously you will find Vishnu and his various avatars more pleasing to the eye and approachable but how can you insult that which you do not understand?
Do you think we are mindless devotees only seeking shelter from a Goddess that looks ferocious?
We lack understanding?
Your reply really says more about you than anything.
We are not all Vaishanavas. We are not all of the same nature and temperament. We do not see the world through the same lens.

I'm sorry you are insulted, but it's your right. I don't think there is anything insulting or disrespectful in being a Vaishnava and honoring and praying to Maa Kali. Maa Kali appeared from Maa Durga, whom even Sri Krishna told Arjuna to pray to. Moreover, Maa Durga took birth as Sri Krishna's sister.

I was responding to this, and only this, and I did say it was my view:

These different attitudes or moods do not reveal to us the true nature of the deity but they solely relate to the mind of the devotee.

I think you should grow up and think before you start jumping on people. Sheesh!

[Vasa]

What I've learned here is that Vaishnavas are not allowed to make analogies or comment on bear cubs, because the bear cubs which frequent this forum apparently find it insulting.

[Jainarayan]

What I've learned here is that Vaishnavas are not allowed to make analogies or comment on bear cubs, because the bear cubs which frequent this forum apparently find it insulting.

Indeed my >1400 posts, 49000 rep points, and >1 year membership says so much about me compared to a join date of April 2012, age 22, 36 posts and 2500 rep points.

Now I'll bow out of the conversation, because a Vaishnava cannot possibly see unlimited aspects and forms in God. ;)

[Shanti29]

I'm sorry you are insulted, but it's your right. I don't think there is anything insulting or disrespectful in being a Vaishnava and honoring and praying to Maa Kali. Maa Kali appeared from Maa Durga, whom even Sri Krishna told Arjuna to pray to. Moreover, Maa Durga took birth as Sri Krishna's sister.

I was responding to this, and only this, and I did say it was my view:

I think you should grow up and think before you start jumping on people. Sheesh!

The issue was not regarding you being a Vaishnava and praying to Kali. You do not understand but tell me to grow up. I am only 22 yet for your 55 years on this earth you make no allowance for the headstrong youth but merely insult them. Isn't it the nature of the young people to thing they know it all?

[Shanti29]

Indeed my >1400 posts, 49000 rep points, and >1 year membership says so much about me compared to a join date of April 2012, age 22, 36 posts and 2500 rep points.

Now I'll bow out of the conversation, because a Vaishnava cannot possibly see unlimited aspects and forms in God. ;)

I did not realise this forum was driven only by reputation points, the number of posts and the length of ones membership. Substance is not required. Why not just close the forum to new members and set an age requirement? I should probably leave this forum is my views are disregarded based some reputation points and etc.

[McKitty]

Vanakkam,

Please, don't fight, it's misunderstanding D: I al sorry if I said something wrong or ambiguous, it wasn't my intention. ..I posted on shakta because I though shakta would know better, but everone's opinion is welcomed....
Sorry really


Aum Namah Shivaya

[Jainarayan]

You do not understand

Please enlighten me.


I am only 22 yet for your 55 years on this earth you make no allowance for the headstrong youth but merely insult them. Isn't it the nature of the young people to thing they know it all?

Insult? No, underscoring your own words: "Isn't it the nature of the young people to thing they know it all?"

You went on the offensive, which is all too common. You will learn that you do not know it all. None of us do.

Shubhamastu; sudinamastu.

[Vasa]

Vanakkam,

Please, don't fight, it's misunderstanding D: I al sorry if I said something wrong or ambiguous, it wasn't my intention. ..I posted on shakta because I though shakta would know better, but everone's opinion is welcomed....
Sorry really


Aum Namah Shivaya

Namaste.

You did nothing wrong. You had a question, you asked it, there is no harm done.

[Jainarayan]

Vanakkam,

Please, don't fight, it's misunderstanding D: I al sorry if I said something wrong or ambiguous, it wasn't my intention. ..I posted on shakta because I though shakta would know better, but everone's opinion is welcomed....
Sorry really


Aum Namah Shivaya

No fighting, except for a 5 mm kidney stone which is making me less tolerant of comments like the one attacking my beliefs; I wasn't going to let an attack on my opinions go unchallenged.

You said nothing wrong, so no worries. In many of these threads there is always someone who has to go on the offensive, even for opinion and p.o.v. It's sad, especially in a religion that is rightly proud of its heritage of diversity and tolerance of beliefs and sects, and peace.

[ShriBala]

Sometimes Kali has come to a very few, of which in the histories of three saints I have heard in story including Trailinga, where Kali came before a human in the form of a young girl.

Vandanam. Can't recollect just now where i'd read this, but Kalika devi had come as a small kid 6-7 years old to Shri Ramakrishna during his Bhakti bhava. And She had held his hands like a small child and both had played.

Shri Ramakrishna, of course, used to sing Shri Ramaprasad's poems and songs in which Ramaprasad used to think of himself as Her son and argue with Her.

Their bhakti bhava is awe-inspiring and humbling, to say the least.

Ma had come to Annada thakur as Adya maa, initially asking him to retrieve HER antique and undamaged vigraham from Eden gardens. Then a couple of days later, again to tell him that he must take a photo of Her and then drop Her into the Ganga, which he didn't and refused to. She then had to come to him in a series of dreams and had to resort to threatening, coaxing, pleading with and finally convincing him by giving 16 logical reasons as to why he must do as what She had said. He finally did what She had asked. The Adyapeeth is a unique temple in which Shri Radha-Krishna's shrine is present alongwith Adya ma's. Generally, they are never there together in the sample complex.

[JaiMaaDurga]

Namaste,

Some very good links have already been posted
in reply to the original question, and the avoidance of needless
conflict is always commendable, but there is an aspect of
this thread which has created an excellent opportunity
for reflection for me: that is, the words I write here, or speak
aloud elsewhere, no matter what else they may have been informed by,
are authoritative concerning one thing only; the "state of mind"
as experienced by myself at the moment of writing or speaking...

Taking birth necessitates imperfection of three things- perception,
apprehension, and communication. Successfully remembering this
has been of great value at various times for me.

Whether a rope or a snake, sometimes the best course of action
on my part has been "none".

JAI MATA DI

[LondonIndian]

For a brief article that gives a partial but meaningful insight into Mother Kali, check this out (http://hinduperspective.com/2013/02/12/why-is-kali-dancing-on-lord-shiva/).

[Janyananda Saraswati]

If you have a devotion to Shri Durga already, it shouldn't be much of a jump to worship Maa Kali, since they are one and the same Mother. Kali shows her fierce face to the demons (the negative states of mind) to drive them away, so that there will be nothing left but peace. Think about Kali as a gale force wind, which would be foolish to resist directly. The only way to come into her presence safely is by submission, that is, by bowing down. Kali enables complete submission to divinity, the complete removal of the weapons of the enemy. Make your home in her darkness, and she will show you the way. You will see that, in the interior darkness, that darkness and light are one. There can be no division of opposites in Her care, for she opens the door to non-duality. I would recommend Kali Puja, by Swami Satyananda Saraswati, which has many Kali prayers and profound philosophy. Worship will teach much more than words ever could.

[kriyarameeshh]

Sri Matre Namaha.

Should some one be scared or afraid to worship Maha Kali?

Yes there is a reason to be scared when our intentions are evil otherwise nothing to worry, in fact one can be rest assured that no one can grant what Maha Kali can grant.

With reference to Bhuvaneswari Kaksha Puti Granda I quote the below lines.

Pratyangira, Artharvana Bhadra Kali, Sarabha Kali, Dakshina Kali and Tara are called Pancha Kalika Vidyas and are considered to be extremely fruitful in Kali Yuga. However these are termed as Ugra Vidyas, so one must be careful while invoking any of these.

The Siddis of these Vidyas when abused would back fire in this birth itself to the extent of one becoming insane and loss of everything.

It also states that the Sadhaka of any of the Pancha Kalika Vidyas should be extremely faithful to his wife and should treat every other female as his mother.

This way I can conclude that there is no need to be scared of Kali worship when our intentions are clean.

Sri Matre Namaha.

[Joh17]

Just remembered

[ajreddy]

Namaste'
How would you explain a form to a blind man? For a blind man all forms are the same? Does that mean a blind man who never saw a beautiful ganesha or krishna would not process beauty? Or just because you can see colors and he cannot,you are more spiritually aware than him? Beauty and joy lie in our self and not in our perception of this external realm of senses.



Why do you think nuclear power is billion times greater than chemical power? It’s because nuclear power deals with what goes around in the inner nucleus whereas chemical power deals with plain external reactions. Likewise the more you dwell on external forms of Krishna or kali or durga you will likely end up enlightened, but to the puny degree of chemical power, billion times lower in comparison to meditating on their deeper inner self,equaling nuclear power. You see a lot of people focussing on forms ending up spiritually bankrupt and with a lot of ego and self deception. Focussed solely on cultural morals which they ascribe to God himself, they live in a delusion that they would get liberated and worse they even try to condition other people just to force rub their illusion on others. Time and again this has been a norm in Christian evangelism and its sad many cults even in Hinduism are following suit. That is the reason why you find one real Ramakrishna vs millions of normal men parading as gurus.We have to go beyond forms to the great inner self in the small recess of our hearts,which is intangible,unknown, yet creates this big, big, very big manifest world. Even though the size of the hydrogen atom is in nanometers the power of the hydrogen bomb is in gigajoules!!That inner self is trillion times more powerful and more fundamental than this visible universe. But since we are accustomed to a certain conditioning of culture we tend to downsize everything to suit our thinking. When people were given prismatic glasses which make them see the world upside down, they started to see the world upside down even after removing the glasses! Which proves its not the eyes but its the brain that processes this whole illusion and it is this brain conditioning due to which we are scared of fierce forms of Kali or Narasimha but love Krishna or shiva or durga!

Kali is the supplement as time to devi bhuvaneshwari who is space and gives the power of movement and facilitates to the souls to finish their journey in this space for self realization. If there is no time, just the three dimensional space, imagine what would happen? Everything would be static as in vacuum and nothing would move or act. Real meditation on mother kali is thus,not meditating on her 4 armed form laced with skulls. Imagine someone with a terminal illness..every second takes him closer to death. He is always in fear of the unexpected. And that fear is what exactly is represented by her fierce awe inspiring form with skulls and weapons. If the same form gives you happiness it means you are step up on the path to liberation. She is the fluid time that devours everything including the trimurtis as an eternal consequence of transformation. And her form is indeed scary because the very fact that you are scared means you need to decondition yourself by focussing on the self and she is the first step to that and better she makes you aware of this maya through your own fear. When you focus on the self where is the question of kali or Krishna? You will understand that they are two sides of the same coin. Attractiveness and ugliness are just our perceptive terms which push us deeper into this illusion whether we attribute them to each other or to god himself.

[gord96]

good post ajreddy. I found it very interesting. :)

[RasaKali]

I am a Kali Devotee.... Only thing I can say is that, I always find her smiling face, I can never find anger in her face...I see her face at least thousand times a day at my heart... may b that's my dream, but if I close my eyes and can't see her smiling face... I start feeling... why am I alive!!!