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Namaste
I am seeking the opinion of the authorship, authority, ranking and date of (relative to the Major Upanishads) of the Kali Santarana Upanishad from erudite and advanced savants of Upanishadic study and scholarship.
Thanks in advance.
Om Namah Sivaya
Hare Krsna,Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaFan
Kali Santarana Upanishad is part of the Krsna Yajur Veda, it's ranking is as a minor Upanishad with Muktika canon of 108 Upanishads. The date of the Upanishads is of antiquity and no one knows for certain since there was a long period where this was an oral tradition before being written down. This Upanishad is claimed to be authored by Rshi Vedavyasa."Lord Brahma is the guru of Narada Muni, who is the guru ofKali Santarana Upanishad is a conversation between Lord Brahma and His son Sage Narada Muni. There is a Purport which shows the Muktikopanishad and specifically the Kali Santarana Upanishad were confirmed in commentaries by Shri Madhavacharya, thus accepted as authentic. Authoritativeness would depend upon Philosophical school. Clearly this Upanishad is the basis of the teachings of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and therefore Brahma Madhava Gaudiya Vaishnavism.
Vyasadeva, and Vyasadeva is the guru of Madhvacarya."
-From Srila Prabhupada's Purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 6:5:22
Quote:
kali-yuge yuga-dharma -- namera pracara
tathi lagi' pita-varna caitanyavatara
The religious practice for the Age of Kali is to broadcast the glories of the holy name. Only for this purpose has the Lord, in a yellow color, descended as Lord Caitanya.
-Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Adi 3.40
PURPORT
In this Age of Kali the practical system of religion for everyone is the chanting of the name of Godhead. This was introduced in this age by Lord Caitanya. Bhakti-yoga actually begins with the chanting of the holy name, as confirmed by Madhvacarya in his commentary on the Mundaka Upanishad. He quotes this verse from the Narayana-samhita:
dvapariyair janair vishnuh
pancaratrais tu kevalaih
kalau tu nama-matrena
pujyate bhagavan harih
"In the Dvapara-yuga people should worship Lord Vishnu only by the regulative principles of the Narada-pancaratra and other such authorized books. In the Age of Kali, however, people should simply chant the holy names of the Supreme Personality of Godhead." The Hare Krishna mantra is specifically mentioned in many Upanishads, such as the Kali-santarana Upanishad..."
-please forgive my mistakesQuote:
The Names in the maha-mantra are Hare, Krsna and Rama. The followers of the Sankaracarya school, as well as those of the Ramanuja and Madhva schools, conceive the Name of Hare to be the vocative case of Hari. Thus for them ‘Hare’ means Narayana, ‘Rama’ means Ramacandra and ‘Krsna’ means the avatar of Narayana [not Krsna the avatari, or source of Narayana].
The followers of Sankaracarya have adopted this version of the maha-mantra and the Vaisnava sampradayas of South India have also adopted the same. ‘Hare’ in all these sampradayas means Hari, or Narayana. In all circumstances their way of thinking is about liberation (mukti) and not actually about bhakti (devotion). Moreover, the followers of Sankaracarya are sometimes found to chant the maha-mantra and give more attention to the maha-mantra than the Ramanuja sampradaya or the Madhva sampradaya. The Kali-santarana Upanisad and the maha-mantra are accepted by all these sampradayas, yet the maha-mantra is of little importance to them. Only the Gaudiya Vaisnavas stake everything on the maha-mantra...
It is often said as a reference that the maha-mantra first appears or manifests in the Kali-santarana Upanisad portion of the Vedas, but such a statement is not actually correct according to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, who has stated:
Lord Hari's Name is Lord Hari Himself. The maha-mantra was present before the scriptures manifested. The catuh-sloki of the Bhagavatam beginning with 'aham evasam evagre' is proof of this. The supremely independent Holy Name is not under the jurisdiction of scriptural control. Actually, the scriptures have appeared by the supreme will of the Holy Name. It is not a fact that the scriptures manifested first and then the Holy Name appeared after. The Brahma-samhita says that the Holy Name appeared first in Brahma's heart. (Sri Srila Prabhupader Upadesamrta) http://gosai.com/writings/the-maha-mantra
Most sampradayas do not accept the Muktika canon as authoritative. It is not mentioned by earlier Gaudiya teachers either (though the Kali Santarana Upanishad is), though later Gaudiya Acharyas have regarded it as authoritative. The Kali Santarana Upanishad is not accepted outside the Gaudiya school,but there is no harm in chanting the mantra given therein. chanting the names of Rama and Krishna can only do good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devi Dasi
No, this is what Madhvacharya says-Quote:
Originally Posted by Devi Dasi
There is no mention of Kali Santarana Upanishad here.Quote:
“catud-Sa mahaivaVasqaaina vaoidtvyaaina BavaMit | [it ca ma>Ula Eauit: | pMcara~maRgaaVaSca sava-maokM
pura||Bavat\ | maUlavaod [it (a#yaa kalao kRtyaugao tda | naOvak-saamaaidnaamaaina tda vaodsya caaBavana\ | naOva caond`aid
naamaaina ivaYNaaornya~ ku~icat\ | ba`*marud`ond` pUvaO-stu naamaiBa: p`aocyato hir: |” - In ancient period,
Pancharatra and the Veda existed being considered as the primary scriptures
during Krita era. Then they were not separated as four scriptures and except
Vishnu no one else existed, Brahma, Rudra and others spoke of Hari alone.
“dovata%vaona caojya: sa: ba`*maaVa manaunaamaka: | vya>\ya%vaona iptR%vaona kair%vaonaOva caadrat\ | [jyanto dovata:
savaa- na tu dovatyaa @vaicat\ | Ananyayaaijanasto tu tsmaa%kat- yaugaa janaa: | p`aPnauvaint hirM tM ca tsmaaWodo na
ikMcana | paravayMa- hroya-smaadui%qatasturgaananaat\ | ?gaaVanauvyaa#yaaMtastsmaa%savaO-h-irM yajaot\ || -
tsmaad\ba`*madayassava-o
manavaao maanavastqaa | yajaint sava-vaodOstM jaanaint ca ivainaScayaat\ | ASa>: pHcara~oNa ?gaad\vaOvaa-qa tM yajaot\ |
?gaad\vaOrova ~Otostu iBannaOirYTao janaOh-ir: | WaprIyaOja-naOiva-YNau: pHcara~Ostu kovalaO: | klaaO tu naamamaa~oNa pUjyato
Bagavaana\ hir: ||” – Earlier Brahma and others were not worshipped in Krita era as
divine beings, but only with enormous respect and unshaken decisive devotion as
great teachers, great fathers or as great devotees of Vishnu, by every means
without any distinction as primary vedic or subsidiary scriptures. Brahma and all
others were of human origin and like human beings worshipped Vishnu alone,
knowing him through the entirety of the Vedic Wisdom. Those who were weak in
intelligence worshiped with the help of Rigvedic and Pancharatra scriptures. In
Treta era, Vishnu was worshipped using one or the other part of the vedic
7
scriptures. While Vishnu was worshipped in Dvapar era through Pancharatra
scripture in Kali era Hari was worshipped through constant recitation of his
names.
“ekao vaod: kRto (asaIt\ ~otayaaM sa i~QaaNavat\ | sa eva pMcaQaa jaataoWaprM p`aPya vaO yaugama\ | ]%sanna: sa
kilaM p`aPya vaod: p`ayaoNa sava-t: | mau#yaao Qama-: kat-yaugaao vait-tvya: klavaip | ~tadaO tdSa@%yaa ih Qamaao-|nya:
samp`vait-t: || kRto Baagavatassvao- vaodaSca puruYaastqaa | ~otayaaM iBannaivaYayaa: tts~OivaVtaM gata: | tsmaadok: savavaodO&
ao-yaao ivaYNau sanaatna: | pUjyaao ya&O: saaopcarOQyao-yaao vaMVSca sava-da | [%yaaid naarayaNa saMihtayaama\ |
vaodvaadaScaanauyaugaM h`saMtIit ih nau Eauit: | [it Baarto | vaodOSca pMcara~OSca Ba@%yaa ya&O:stqaOva ca | dRSyaao|hM
naanyaqaa dRSyaao vaYa-kaoiTSatOrip || [%yaaid vaaraho |” – In Krita era Veda – Wisdom was
singularly One, in Treta era it became divided three-fold, in Dvapara era it
became divided five-fold and when Kali era dawned it became increasingly lost
sight of. Dharma in Krita and Kali era was primarily same, but in Treta and
other eras for the feeble ones simple principles of Dharma were communicated.
In Krita era, all being devotees of Vishnu,Veda and human beings were alike. In
Treta era, people had different inclinations; therefore there were different source
to Wisdom. Therefore, considering Vishnu alone as the eternal One to be known
through all the vedic scriptures, one should propitiate him though adoration,
sacrifices or through various services, thus has been spoken in Narayanasamhita.
In later eras due to divergent dissertation and conflicting contention, vedic
scriptures became increasingly obscure, thus is spoken in Mahabharata. The
Lord is perceived only through the Wisdom contained in Vedas and Pancharatra,
performance of enlightened actions, sacrifices and never through any other
means, even though tried for hundreds and thousands of years., thus in
Varahapurana.
Thank you both, very indepth response! This scripture, it seems to me, pronounces the need that in the Kali Yug that japa or bhajan or mantra is recommended in this age. It also contains the Hare Rama mantra (HR HK).
It certainly does not seem to me to have been authored by just any oridinary man. It seems it could only be divinely inspired.
But it seems it is not generally accepted by all, even some Vaishnavs do not accept, but only Gaudiyas?
What if one only says or sings this recommended mantra one time? Will full benefit be achieved? Prabhupad is mentioned, I know a lot about Prabhupad, I am positive he said HR-HK mantra was the "first initiation" and later Gayatri is the "second initiation" (this does not mean abondoning the first).
Is this Upanishad referenced anywhere else that also associates it with a specific LOCATION OR TEMPLE?
Thanks! Om Namah Sivaya
Namaste ShivaFan
Sometimes people question the authenticity of some scripture or a verse.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaFan
They say this:
"Today there are many Upanishads which has never before been quoted or mentioned by any of the ancient authors or acaryas from the past (purvacaryas). Shankara has not cited this Upanishad nor Madhvacarya nor Ramanuja nor any scholar such as Sayana, etc, so all this means that it is not an authentic Upanishad. It must be that this Upanishad is some medieval forgery."
However, I would say, the problem is much more complicated than simply thinking like that. It's not just a problem with Kalisantarana Upanishad but with many other Upanishads which have not been mentioned by acaryas who lived in the past. See about this on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upanishads
So which Upanishads are authentic and which are not?
Just because some acarya who lived in the past never quoted some Upanishad, does this mean that Upanishad did not exist in his time? My personal opinion is that there is no reliable way to determine the authenticity of a particular Upanishad.
In my personal opinion the question of the authenticity of a particular Upanishadic text becomes irrelevant simply because it is not possible to reliably determine how old are particular Upanishads let alone whether they are authentic Vedic texts or not.
However there is one other thing we can easily determine and which is relevant. We can compare the teachings of certain Upanishads with each other, and we can compare the teachings of the Upanishads with other scriptures such as Puranas, smritis etc. Thus we can determine how these teachings match each other and how much they do not match. Doctrines that do not have sufficient substantiation in numerous sources are most likely not authentic. That's pretty much all we can do if we are concerned about what is and what is not authentic.
As far as I know Kalisantarana Upanishad is accepted only in Gaudiya vaishnava tradition. Even if someone thinks that Kalisantarana Upanishad is not authentic, and that Hare Krishna maha mantra mentioned therein is also not authentic, as Omkara said, chanting the names of Rama and Krishna can only do good. Hare Krishna maha mantra mentioned consists of God's holy names Hare (Hari), Krishna and Rama. These three names of the Lord can be found in many other scriptures, Bhagavad gita, Puranas, Mahabharata and Ramayana, Pancharatras, etc, even some Upanishads mention Hari, Rama and Krishna.
Hare Krishna maha mantra is established as the best means in Kali yuga, in this Upanishad.Quote:
This scripture, it seems to me, pronounces the need that in the Kali Yug that japa or bhajan or mantra is recommended in this age. It also contains the Hare Rama mantra (HR HK). ...
What if one only says or sings this recommended mantra one time? Will full benefit be achieved?
It is assumed that the mantra should be pronounced as japa, which means repeatedly.
regards
Namaste brahma jijnasa
i read every word carefully, and appreciate the details. I am starting to think that not only are the number of Upanishads and Puranas are greater than most imagine but the number of realized saints and yogis of long ago that need more recognition than the "standard list".
Om Namah Sivaya
Namaste ShivaFan
Yes they really are greater than most imagine. I mean, why we would uselessly speculating on whether this Upanishad is authentic, whether that Upanishad is authentic, especially when it is clear to everyone that one can not reliably determine which is and which is not authentic.
There are some characteristics that can only point to the possibility that some Upanishad is authentic. One of which is the fact that some Upanishad was quoted by purvacaryas in past centuries. But frankly, is this the proof of authenticity? I think it is not. It just points to the possibility that this is so, but by itself does not constitute evidence.
Instead of thinking about authenticity we could thinking about how teachings of some Upanishad can be supported by other scriptures. I think it would be more beneficial.
regards
Hare Krsna,
Just because there is no direct mention of the Upanishad doesn't mean that a quotation or reference isn't given. Have a closer look at what was posted:Quote:
Originally Posted by Devi Dasi http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/ima...s/viewpost.gif
Kali Santarana Upanishad is a conversation between Lord Brahma and His son Sage Narada Muni. There is a Purport which shows the Muktikopanishad and specifically the Kali Santarana Upanishad were confirmed in commentaries by Shri Madhavacharya, thus accepted as authentic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omkara
By this Purport we see that Shri Madhvacharya actually did cite the Narayana Samhita, which is in complete accord with Kali Santarana Upanishad in the essence of what it says regarding the performance of religious duty in the Kali Yuga Dharma being Nama Japa. As well as Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu whose comment relies on this shastric basis.Quote:
kali-yuge yuga-dharma -- namera pracara
tathi lagi' pita-varna caitanyavatara
The religious practice for the Age of Kali is to broadcast the glories of the holy name. Only for this purpose has the Lord, in a yellow color, descended as Lord Caitanya.
-Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Adi 3.40
PURPORT
In this Age of Kali the practical system of religion for everyone is the chanting of the name of Godhead. This was introduced in this age by Lord Caitanya. Bhakti-yoga actually begins with the chanting of the holy name, as confirmed by Madhvacarya in his commentary on the Mundaka Upanishad. He quotes this verse from the Narayana-samhita:
dvapariyair janair vishnuh
pancaratrais tu kevalaih
kalau tu nama-matrena
pujyate bhagavan harih
"In the Dvapara-yuga people should worship Lord Vishnu only by the regulative principles of the Narada-pancaratra and other such authorized books. In the Age of Kali, however, people should simply chant the holy names of the Supreme Personality of Godhead."
The Hare Krishna mantra is specifically mentioned in many Upanishads, such as the Kali-santarana Upanishad..."
Let's have a closer look at the link you quoted:
This is your quote.Quote:
No, this is what Madhvacharya says-
"In ancient period, Pancharatra and the Veda existed being considered as the primary scriptures during Krita era. Then they were not separated as four scriptures and except Vishnu no one else existed, Brahma, Rudra and others spoke of Hari alone...
Those who were weak in intelligence worshiped with the help of Rigvedic and Pancharatra scriptures. In Treta era, Vishnu was worshipped using one or the other part of the vedic scriptures. While Vishnu was worshipped in Dvapar era through Pancharatra scripture in Kali era Hari was worshipped through constant recitation of his names."
-please forgive my mistakesQuote:
hari om. dvaparante narada brahmanam
jagama katham bhagavan gam
paryatana kalim santareyam iti. [1]
"Hari Om! After travelling all over the world, Shrila Narada Muni approached Lord Brahma (his own father and guru) during the time when Dvapara-yuga was about to end. He asked him, “O Lord! How will all the living entities be able to deliver themselves from the most degraded age of Kali which is about to begin.”
sa hovaca. brahma sadhu prishto’smi
sarva shruti rahasyam gopyam tac
chrinu yena kali samsaram tarishyasi.[2]
Lord Brahma replied, “You have asked the most important and relevant question for the benefit of humanity. I will tell you now the most concealed secret of the Vedic literatures, with the help of which everyone can easily cross this most dangerous age of Kali.
bhagavata adi purushasya narayanasya
namoccharana matrena nirdhta kalir bhavati [3]
“Simply by chanting the transcendental names of the original enjoyer and the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Narayana, all the sins will be cleansed in Kali-yuga.”
-Kali Santarana Upanishad