Re: subtleties in the gītā
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yajvan
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté
When the Lord speaks of eating, it is the notion of feeding the senses; this includes the tongue, but is not exclusive to what one puts into their digestive track. It is what's taken in by the eyes, ears, nose, etc. He is speaking to us about not being excessive in habits.
He calls for moderation and uses the term yukta in the next śloka (6, 17th śloka).
Now this too, also has a subtler meaning. Yukta means 'fit , suitable , appropriate , proper , right', yet it also means 'yoked or joined or fastened or attached or harnessed'. What then can be the deeper meaning here?
iti śivaṁ
If by "eating," The Lord meant sense gratification in general, then (according to you), the verse really means, "there is no possibility of yoga for he who has too much sense gratification or for he who has too little sense gratification."
The first half of the statement would be easy to accept, while the second half would not. The Vedic and Puraanic tradition is full of Rishis who deny themselves the pleasures of the senses and yet attain the highest goal. Although there is no question that outward renunciation while inward meditation on the pleasures of the senses brings only disaster, the successful yogi who renounces enjoyment of the objects of the senses and remains mentally disinterested in them does not fail in the path of yoga.
I would probably go with Lord Krishna's literal words on this one. Everyone has to eat - even the most renounced Rishis will live on leaves, air, and water, but it is something.
Re: subtleties in the gītā
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté
Let's look at another... chapter 2, 69th verse:
That which is night for all beings, therein the self-controlled (saṃyamī¹) is awake; that wherein beings are awake is night for
the sage (muni) that sees.
What is kṛṣṇa-jī telling us? That the realized person sleeps during the day and is up at night ? There must be more to this then meets the eye.
iti śivaṁ
1.saṃyamī = saṃyam = ( the person) in control, held together ; to hold together , hold in , hold fast , restrain , curb , control , govern the senses
Re: subtleties in the gītā
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yajvan
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté
Let's look at another... chapter 2, 69th verse:
That which is night for all beings, therein the self-controlled (saṃyamī¹) is awake; that wherein beings are awake is night for
the sage (muni) that sees.
What is kṛṣṇa-jī telling us? That the realized person sleeps during the day and is up at night ? There must be more to this then meets the eye.
iti śivaṁ
1.saṃyamī = saṃyam = ( the person) in control, held together ; to hold together , hold in , hold fast , restrain , curb , control , govern the senses
No, He is merely referring to the different tastes of the materialist compared to the yogi. What enlivens the yogi bores the materialist and vice-versa.
Re: subtleties in the gītā
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yajvan
Let's look at another... chapter 2, 69th verse:
That which is night for all beings, therein the self-controlled (saṃyamī¹) is awake; that wherein beings are awake is night for
the sage (muni) that sees.
Let's look at a few ideas¹...
- the sage (muni) that sees = ~sees~ or is aligned with Reality, with truth, with Being itself.
- night = ignorance; some would say it too is aligned to māyā and therefore keeps people in the dark, but not the sage that ~sees~.
- wherein beings are awake is night for the sage = this is a bit more interesting; beings that are 'awake' suggests the ones that
are awake in the senses; where the senses drive a person from action to action. For the saṃyamī¹ this is 'night' , that is dormant, of little interest, as he/she is possessed of the Self. They the 'awakened ones' or sthiaprajña move within the realm of the senses but are not attached to the objects of the senses.
So, here is my next question... We have those that are ignorant, and we have those that are realized , the 'awakened ones' or sthiaprajña .
In the middle we have those that wish to become awake, and we call them tapasvin-s. What of them ? What of the tapasvin experience
in life (kurukṣetra) ? How does the world look to them ?
iti śivaṁ
- It is interesting to note that this is the 71st śloka in the gitārta saṁgraha , from abhinavagupta-ji
- saṃyamī = saṃyam = ( the person) in control, held together ; to hold together , hold in , hold fast , restrain , curb , control , govern the senses
Re: subtleties in the gītā
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yajvan
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté
So, here is my next question... We have those that are ignorant, and we have those that are realized , the 'awakened ones' or sthiaprajña .
In the middle we have those that wish to become awake, and we call them tapasvin-s. What of them ? What of the tapasvin experience
in life (kurukṣetra) ? How does the world look to them ?
iti śivaṁ
- It is interesting to note that this is the 71st śloka in the gitārta saṁgraha , from abhinavagupta-ji
- saṃyamī = saṃyam = ( the person) in control, held together ; to hold together , hold in , hold fast , restrain , curb , control , govern the senses
Dear
Yajvan,
- The ignorant ones are engrossed in nescience, Avidya.
- The tapasvin, is similar or bear likeness to the one in the field of Vidya, who holds Knowledge in true and absolutist sense.
However, even when they see truth they will fail to uphold it. When they see goodness they will be helpless to preserve it, because their discipline is one-sided.
The ‘knowledge of the actual’ (YatharthaJnana) should be distinguished from the “Paramartha Jnana”, which means, the ‘knowledge of Ultimate Meaning’.
“Those who rejoice in the world of ignorance (Avidya) live in darkness. Those who take delight in the world of knowledge (Vidya) live, as it were, in a greater darkness” (Isa: 9)
- And we have those that are realized, who have distinguished themselves from the paradox of Vidya and Avidya, the’ sthiaprajña’ as we spoken of. Love:)
Re: subtleties in the gītā
Quote:
Originally Posted by
charitra
Why the time and place (in between the two senas (armies)), within the earshot of Kouravas AND Pandavas? Well, simply because KRISHNA WANTED IT THAT WAY. The sacred wisdom to be imparted to the warring senas of both the kouravas and Pandavas alike. Divine knowledge is meant for treading the path of the moksha for ALL sentient beings to adopt.
‘Private audience only’ was never the intended meaning of the texts. We have to be cognizant of the larger picture and should not be clouded by our own personal (effort and) accomplishments when we try to define the PURPOSE OF THE TEXTS like Gita, Vedopanishads and when we DEFINE the INTENDED TARGET AUDIENCES of the preachers of those texts. The great sages and rishis presumably wanted every sentient being to be enlightened by the wisdom packed in these invaluable treasures. It is however possible the wise men and women of the yore didn’t want dubious characters to misread, misinterpret and mispreach those sacred verses , the likes of Ravana Parabrahma for instance. I saw a famous British comedian and a talkshow host sporting a large Krishna tattoo on his left shoulder stating on TV ’ how he remained sober and clean for almost 10 yrs thanks to his meditation and yoga practice’ , he is not aspiring to become a preacher, he was able to exercise enormous self control, thanks to Krishna. ISKCON works hard to spread the message of Gita tirelessly and some people who received Gita in the streets have had their lives changed forever by just reading it. Namaste.
There is a reason why the secrets of making atomic bombs is not made public. All the universities demand certain qualifications for admission. Why not admit every one, without any pre-requisites? Let us be kind to every one!
Why there should not be any qualifying tests for studying or practising spirituality or bhagavad gita? The idea of religeous knowledge or the secrets of yoga being made available to all and sundry is a very diluted and actually harmful thought process. If you can't put into practice the teachings of one shloka of BG in your practical life, what exactly is your eligibility to study this shAstra?
Bhagavad Gita is much more than a discussion between a teacher and a disciple about to wage an all destructive war. Certainly a battle field is the last place on earth on which to deliver a sermon on the Atman.
The war here is purely spiritual, and kuruxetra denoting the mahA-vedi, the bhruvormadhya or the Ajna chakra or the mahA-smashAna is explained in our scriptures. The whole context here is about the internal yogic war that is going to be waged at the higher flights of religion, far removed from the mundane world. The eighteen chapters of the Gita describe the eighteen ladders of the yogic process, starting from arjuna-viShAda (which is the first limb of the yoga described in the Gita).
If you have noticed already, the number eighteen is a common theme of Mahabharata - eighteen parvas, eighteen chapters of Gita, eighteen akshauhinis of war, kuruxetra war lasting exactly eighteen days and so on. The number eighteen is a mystic number in this context and all these eighteen based ideas are intentionally included to convey an important spiritual idea. jaya, which is another name of Mahabharata denotes eighteen as well according to the kaTapayAdi samkhya ( ja = 8, ya =1).
This number eighteen stands for the sUxma deha of eighteen yogic principles: - five karmendriya-s, five jnAnendriya-s, five prANa-s, manas, buddhi, and ahaMkAra. The numeric symbol eighteen is used in Mahabharata to convey the tAtparya of Mahabharata (jaya or victory) as sharIra vijnAna (yogic science of the microcosm) dealing with the victory over the sUxma-sharIra.
Re: subtleties in the gītā
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sudarshan
This number eighteen stands for the sUxma deha of eighteen yogic principles: - five karmendriya-s, five jnAnendriya-s, five prANa-s, manas, buddhi, and ahaMkAra. The numeric symbol eighteen is used in Mahabharata to convey the tAtparya of Mahabharata (jaya or victory) as sharIra vijnAna (yogic science of the microcosm) dealing with the victory over the sUxma-sharIra.
This notion of 18 also is discussed here : http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...7&postcount=32 and continues within the string.
iti śivaṁ
Re: subtleties in the gītā
Namaste
Buddhiyoga is described as a yoga of the intellect. And yet, doesn’t the Gita itself designate the soul (e.g. individual consciousness) has its own, higher status than the intellect?
BG 3:42
The Senses (indriyani) are superior to sense objects
The Mind (manah) is superior to the Senses
The Intellect (buddhih) is superior to the Mind
And that which is superior to the Intellect is Atman (sah) of Individual Consciousness
There is a clear hierarchy described here. With the soul as the most superior, all the other “lesser” three, the senses, mind and intellect, are controlled by the soul. This verse comes immediately after the previous verse where Krishna recommends to control the senses which can destroy the mind and intellect if the soul is not realized.
SAH (Soul? Individual Consciousness?)
|
BUDDHI or Intellect
|
MIND
|
SENSES
|
SENSE OBJECTS
But how do you interpret “sah”?
Because the very next verse afterward 3:43, Krishna says to Arjun that by knowing what is superior to the intellect one will steady the mind and conquer lust. And what is that which is superior? Sah.
What is the best way to describe sah?
Om Namah Sivaya
Re: subtleties in the gītā
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ShivaFan
But how do you interpret “sah”?
What you ask is quite enriching to one's understanding... within kaśmir śaivism this saḥ and sauḥ is held in high regard...
It is said¹, as among figures, the 4-armed viṣṇu, the 3-eyed śiva, etc. among spirituous liquors, surā, āsava etc. lead one
forcibly as it were to the state of Bhairava, among all the akṣara (~ phonemes, sounds, letters) 'sa' leads to the state of Bhairava.
Why then is this is mantra sauḥ and saḥ so attractive to consider?
The parā-trīśikā vivaraṇa 19th śloka offers this to us....
It says:
adṛṣṭamandalo'pi evaṃ yaḥ
kaścid vetti tattvataḥ sa
siddhibhāgbhaven nityaṃ
sa yogī sa ca dīkṣitaḥ ||
this says,
whosoever knows truly ( this bīja-mantra sauḥ ) even if he has not seen (adṛṣṭa) the mandala, enjoys the success (yaḥ kaścid) of perfection (siddhi) eternally.
He is (perfect) yogī, he is (really) (~ vetti or vedi - wise man) initiated (dīkṣitaḥ).
More can be said ... this sauḥ is considered amṛtabīja. For a more in-depth review of this most noble sound, please consider the following HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3808
iti śivaṁ
1. 'It is said' is from the āgamādhikāra 2a.12, referenced in Parā-trīśikā Vivaraṇa's review of śloka-s 9-18
Re: subtleties in the gītā
Namaste yajvan, thank you so much, wonderful!
Om Namah Sivaya