Re: the path of tolerance...
Vannakkam: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tolerance
If someone asks me, "Do you believe in Christ?" I simply tell them the truth. "No, I don't." or "I don't know." Am I supposed to lie? I don't see how disagreeing is intolerance. I'm certainly not saying, "and neither should you."
If someone says to me "Hinduism is but for fools!", should I react and start arguing? I don't think so. It's a free country after all.
Aum Namasivaya
Re: the path of tolerance...
Namaste,
Quote:
I ask myself how does this strengthen my own faith ? I do not come to an answer.
I ask myself how does this bring resolve to the path I am on ? I do not come up with an answer.
I ask myself how does this unfold more of the goodness that lies within me ? I find no answer.
I ask myself again, how will this help me expand the Supreme (anuttara) in me , and I am left speechless.
Under similar circumstances, I would quit asking myself and seek the advice of a more knowledgeable person. :)
Pranam.
PS
Quote:
"Every man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshiping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience."
George Washington, 1st President of the United States, May 1789
I would balance that out with some of (the US Presidential aspirant) Rick Santorum's quotes, who would like to BBQ my rear end for his family dinner, because I am not a Xitian.
-
Re: the path of tolerance...
Namaste,
Thank you yajvan, for inspiring these thoughts.
Just as with mathematical proof; it is the proof that there is no answer, which are the hardest to ascertain, see Fermat's last theorem!
How curious a thing it is, human intelligence, conciousness; it has evidently come forth in waves, waves of understanding and knowledge. As we, as a people; realise that that which we are, yet this it would seem that like most good ideas, this happens collectively or simultaneously, in different places at the same or similar times, why?
This is the Fractal nature of conciousness, nature as she unfolds before us and within us. The word is transient, as we utter our truths they ring true to our brethren to those close to us, yet to those of another creed they are frail replicas of their own truths, why?
There is something much bigger than us and our words, which flows through our very being, this ebb this tide that drives us, is visible, prana to those who empathise. Yet blinded by our words; those who carry the feudal banner of faith help knowledge traverse the void of time. That words of imagery might help some empathetic soul, in the future torment of an unbalanced world. These Arrows traverse time.
Might not we find amongst the guise of all these words; that every message be the same? Just as every living man woman and child, are one. Our intellect has grown collectively, still evolving as we think?
Is this not, that which differentiates us from other animals?
Not to realise this aspect of nature; must therefore be, evidence of pride ...
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...ide-PH0295.jpg
Is this not a step in the wrong direction?
praNAma
mana
Re: the path of tolerance...
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eastern Mind
If someone asks me, "Do you believe in Christ?" I simply tell them the truth. "No, I don't." or "I don't know." Am I supposed to lie? I don't see how disagreeing is intolerance. I'm certainly not saying, "and neither should you."
Yes, I concur as your response is done with the absence of malice. That is the difference as I see it.
It boils down to simple respect... If one said to me, how can you even think kṛṣṇa existed, it is just a story. This argument for me is moot. It is the śāstra-s that supply my support, but how could I communicate this to this person. It would be fruitless and un-needed.
Like that, I may not believe in Christ, yet I do not go out of my way to negate his existence. ( not inferring you have said or impled that).
How can I ask anyone to respect the views I hold if I do not do the same. That is my definition ( in this case) for respect and tolerance.
praṇām
Re: the path of tolerance...
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Believer
I would balance that out with some of (the US Presidential aspirant) Rick Santorum's quotes, who would like to BBQ my rear end for his family dinner, because I am not a Xitian.
I can tell you without reservation that:
1. Mr. Santorum is not even close to the ideals President Washington offered and acted upon.
2. His view of the world is incongruent with the populous of the USA and therefore Mr. Santorum will not be America's next President.
Regarding the following :
Quote:
Under similar circumstances, I would quit asking myself and seek the advice of a more knowledgeable person
Let me offer you the opportunity to pose the questions you would ask ( a more knowledgable person) so I can better undertand your POV and perhaps gain insight into your opinions and values.
praṇām
Re: the path of tolerance...
Yajvan Ji,
Thanks for the wisdom in your post.
I am in this for very a selfish & personal reason , which is attainment of moksha. Since I know that I am a long way from attaining this, I try not to find fault with other persons or other religions. It makes my journey that much longer when I spend my energy on unnecessary emotions.
Moreover all the scripts I have read so far are unequivocal that strong passions (this includes love for ones religion or hate for other religions) pose an impediment to my goal. I am very grateful for the wisdom that came out of sages whom we label as ‘hindus’ , but those same sages would view a every person stripped of all his/her labels.
You confirm my views with your own words and wisdom.
Re: the path of tolerance...
Beloved wise Beings. I come before you, as one who has lived my life with these other religions.
But, also come from a place where words are my passion. This word...tolerance could imply we have this path which "tolerates" another religion.
You have no idea, how many xtians would become offended by this word being used in reference to them. Recently i was reading a blog upon a religious website written by an xtian which the title was exactly this word and how offensive it was.:p
How about just leaving them in peace? This is another option.
Not tolerating...just accepting everyone is in this game at a different place and moving on. Nothing to tolerate, unless you happen to have a son dating a girl who's family is converting hundreds of people every day in the East. That takes some whole hearted tongue biting tolerance.:p
This other option is one of peaceful avoidance.
Peace to just allow this machine to do what it will...allow the drama to play out ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yajvan
I look at various posts in this meta-folder and see many taking umbrage
with other faiths. I ask myself how does this strengthen my own faith ? I do not come to an answer.
I see many take issue and find fault with other religions and their points of view. I ask myself how does this bring resolve to the path I am on ? I do not come up with an answer.
I have your answer to some of these questions.
Neti Neti.
Beloved Yajvan, not everyone is in the place you are, one of a higher wisdom. Only by differentiating...by crude evaluation, can some of us decide which way to turn?
It is as if you are in a stream...there are many foot holds for you to place your foot. The wise will make a judgement upon which seems the best choice. Just as these primary evaluations of other paths and other religious beliefs are so crucial to others making progress.
----------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yajvan
"That which we call the Hindu religion is really the eternal religion, because it is the universal religion which embraces all others.
If a religion is not universal, it cannot be eternal. A narrow religion, a sectarian religion, an exclusive religion can live only for a limited time
and a limited purpose " .... Śrī Aurobindo (some write Śrī Ôrobindo) 30th of May 1909.
This quote, unfortunately describe the very same religions you would seek for all to have tolerance. None of these other religions readily accept other paths. Only a brave few within them will say this...but yet are chastised by their own bretheren.
One of my dearest friends was told, by her pastor to delete me upon FB because i was a idolater. When she refused, he told her in front of her entire congregation that she was being tempted by the devil and was failing.
My friendship brought so much heart break and grief, i wound up shutting down my facebook. I just could not see her treated so poorly on my behalf.
So some of these religions are not eternal. Okay. Not that it matters, there are always more springing up to take their place. This is how it has to be...we all have to have those footholds to move forward. Some are not as straight forward as others.
Good for all of us, that SD is....it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yajvan
It boils down to simple respect... If one said to me, how can you even think kṛṣṇa existed, it is just a story. This argument for me is moot. It is the śāstra-s that supply my support, but how could I communicate this to this person. It would be fruitless and un-needed.
Like that, I may not believe in Christ, yet I do not go out of my way to negate his existence. ( not inferring you have said or impled that).
How can I ask anyone to respect the views I hold if I do not do the same. That is my definition ( in this case) for respect and tolerance.
praṇām
This word, respect...another tricky word choice.
True respect is earned...it takes time. We can give others courtesy...kindness..and compassion.
But do we think xtians would ever truly respect SD and a Hindu's choice of religion?
Why would we want/need this respect any way? Would we go to a strangers home and say...what color should my carpet be? Then, why would we want any opinion upon anything as important as our religion?
Why not just leave them alone to work their path out without interference?
It is my feeling that we should leave them in peace(when we can)...and hopefully get the same peace and space back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yajvan
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté
I can tell you without reservation that:
1. Mr. Santorum is not even close to the ideals President Washington offered and acted upon.
2. His view of the world is incongruent with the populous of the USA and therefore Mr. Santorum will not be America's next President.
George Bush...was elected without the popular vote.
This world is crazy, it's full of confusion...and chaos. It's not meant to be orderly...or even just.
My path is not of tolerance.
It is of least impact. Meaning, that I Love them...even the ones who call me idolater. That happens daily here.
I Love them.
But, I don't need their respect...if I did...what a fruitless waste this would be. Because would be like waiting for the sun to turn into ice cream.
Lately, i have been considering them less and less...leaving them to their happy world and moving on. Which is why my absence in this folder.
However, this is a very important thread...one which brings about an important conversation about our place here and what we should be doing or not doing to others.
Even this path, this one of tolerance, is yours to take, Beloved.
Without one moment of ill will from this fool.
If this works for you,then awesome. But, as with everything else in this realm. The paths are so dynamically ours...and ours alone.
The possibilities are endless.
Re: the path of tolerance...
Quote:
Originally Posted by yajvan
Like that, I may not believe in Christ, yet I do not go out of my way to negate his existence. ( not inferring you have said or impled that).
How can I ask anyone to respect the views I hold if I do not do the same. That is my definition ( in this case) for respect and tolerance.
Dear Yajvan:
This is truly a wise man speaking. You truly are blessed with "wisdom".
This world is full of those people who, for whatever reason, on the one hand refuse to believe Jesus ever existed, yet on the other hand, live comfortably in this world that universally adopted a calendar system based on the existence of Jesus. When confronted with this argument, they quietly withdraw with a self assurance that it must be a western conspiracy.
Notwithstanding such arguments, for many "the Jesus of history" and "the Christ of faith" remain one and the same.
Blessings,
Re: the path of tolerance...
Namaste Yajvan,
Please take a deep breath, and do it one more time. Just chill.
Your sentences started with 'I ask myself' and ended with 'I have no answer'. So, I was pulling your leg about not asking yourself and rather consulting someone who knows; with a smiley at the end. Have some sense of humor. Being a man of religion does not mean you have to be dead serious all the time. Don't look for trouble where none exists. If you don't want any humorous comments, or for that matter any comments that do not jive with your posts, then maybe you ought to just keep your thoughts to yourself and not post them.
Few months back I made a post about Bobby Jindal and you had strong counter opinions about that. I chose to ignore and not escalate. Sometimes self discipline helps. I will write this episode off as someone having a bad day, and not respond, should you choose to keep it brewing.
About George Washington's quote, this is 2012; there is lot more pluralism now than at the time of the founding of a (unofficially) Xitian nation. If something were to happen to Mitt, Rick will be the Republican nominee, and with the bad economy, adverse race relations (http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/...-teens-killing) and religious ferver sweeping the South, I will not write him off. I too have my finger on the pulse of the populace that you speak of. People stupid enough to offer Sarah Palin (who would have been a heartbeat away from a fossil - John McCain - to become the President) as the VP candidate, are perfectly capable of doing many other stupid things. God works in strange ways. No one thought that America will have a black President in this century, but it happened. Only HE knows, not you, not I. I don't have a Verizon FIOS connection to God, so I will desist from making statements like, 'I can tell you without reservation......'
Pranam.
Re: the path of tolerance...
Namaste Yajvan and all,
I can tell you how you are taught to respect other religions/faiths/philosophies in a traditional Hindu family (in India but may be in other countries too).
My parents taught me to respect all faiths. If I started arguing that Jesus didn't exist, most likely I would get a strong disapproval from them. Similar with Islam, though it is one religion which has long-drawn conflict with Hindu faith. I remember we had Christian friends and had strongly family relations with them. I still fondly remember my one "Didi" (elder sister) of my childhood who was a christian. We could never ever think that their "God" was false ... this "false God" concept is missing in Hinduism. All forms and names of God are considered valid and any question on their being 'true' is not encouraged ... and not considered auspicious.
I remember going to Sufi shrines in my childhood. A few years back I was at Khwaja Salim Chisti's shrine in Agra with my family. We all offered "chAdar" and prayed there with full respect.
What I feel that intolerance is a political thing which is fed and encouraged by some interested groups within Hindu society. Most of the times, they are fed with distorted history, their dark sides so that you start hating them while conveniently forgetting that there are some such examples in our faiths too.
Jesus existed or not is not an issue at all, this can be understood only by a truly spiritual person. "Is the path shown by him is right ?" is the more valid question. There have been many great saints that Christianity produced ... Ramkrishna was able to "Realise" Jesus Christ in meditation ... so that is what is important.
The Consciousness of Christ whether appeared in the mind of "Jesus" or any other saint is more important than a human being named "Jesus" in flesh and bones. The faith of the Christ devotees does the rest. A "Christ/Jesus vibration of Consciousness" is automatically created (even if such personality never existed) by the power of strong faith of the devotees and starts helping/guiding you. Let's remember, mind creates what we strongly believe in either here or in the subtle world.
So, I will say that we should respect all faiths ... not just tolerance. Hindu Dharma doesn't teach us to tolerate, it teaches us to respect all faiths and all forms of God.
OM
Re: the path of tolerance...
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté Believer,
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Believer
Namaste Yajvan,
Please take a deep breath, and do it one more time. Just chill.
Your sentences started with 'I ask myself' and ended with 'I have no answer'. So, I was pulling your leg about not asking yourself and rather consulting someone who knows; with a smiley at the end. Have some sense of humor. Being a man of religion does not mean you have to be dead serious all the time. Don't look for trouble where none exists. If you don't want any humorous comments, or for that matter any comments that do not jive with your posts, then maybe you ought to just keep your thoughts to yourself and not post them.
Few months back I made a post about Bobby Jindal and you had strong counter opinions about that. I chose to ignore and not escalate. Sometimes self discipline helps. I will write this episode off as someone having a bad day, and not respond, should you choose to keep it brewing.
Just a note that I did not see the comedic innuendo in your offer. That does not suggest the offer was tantamount to being aggressive... I just missed the 'funny part' and did not see it. Perhaps by this I will come to know your humor.
Re: Bobby Jindal - I do not recall this post but would be happy to revisit it , if it brings value. I have great respect for Mr. Jendal. Yet that said, if in any way I have slighted you, I ask your pardon.
Re: Being dead serious - I do not see myself as that. But I know this, words can cause mischief. People on the other side of the screen do not really know one's intent, behaviors and abilities. So for me, I do not see myself as dead serious but wish to keep an even keel. I have seen too many conversations go sideways, and I wish not to be part of the slide.
Re: George Washington - My offer was not political. My offer was that of a brilliant quote that combined action and one's beliefs. Yet for some curious reason the words ( once again) got in the way.
Last - I do not see myself looking for trouble. In fact I asked you a question to open the lines of communication to come to better know your values:
Quote:
Let me offer you the opportunity to pose the questions you would ask ( a more knowledgable person) so I can better undertand your POV and perhaps gain insight into your opinions and values.
This was not a challange ( as I see it) but an invitation. It still stands. It is by uncovering one's values that one gets to know other beings.
praṇām
Re: the path of tolerance...
Devotee, what a wonderful childhood you had. I can not imagine such a sublime place. You have very good Parents!
Here, it is very different. I was taught that jesus was the only way...only way.
You have three types of people in the world.
1. Those who never heard the "good news" about jesus dying for your sins.
-Which those must be found immediately....to save them. But, it was admitted that those who never heard the Good News were bound for heaven, but it was not as glorious as those who had heard and did the right thing by accepting jesus.
2. Those who heard the Good News and didn't listen. These are hell bound.
3. Good xtians in good standing with jesus. Heaven bound.
---------------------------------------------
Now, i do not think my experience an exception.
At 1-2 years of age went to baptist, switched mormon till around 10. At 10 we went to the pentacostal church(assembly of god-the worst)....then switched back to baptist...this time Southern.:rolleyes: Then to catholic church...till i got big enough you could no longer bully me and make me go. At each point i resisted this teaching...
All of these places were the same in reguard to how they saw the world. Three types of people. There is no other option.
There is no room for respecting other beliefs in such a state. Only by experiencing good people of Eastern faith did i discover there were other options. Because, at this point in my life, i had planned to remove myself. I could not dwell here if those three options above were the only truth...as they had claimed.
Re: the path of tolerance...
Namaste Yajvan,
Evidently there has been a misunderstanding/miscommunication on both sides. And I am sorry for my part.
About my values; in my 800 plus posts, I have laid bare my soul by offering views on issues ranging from teenage masturbation to my disgust with self loathing universalists (posing as Hindus) to Is God really compassionate and more. Some people love me for my views, some merely tolerate me and others hate my guts. There is not much more I can say that will make me 'better understood' in the forum.
The forum is not about me, but about Hinduism. :)
Pranam.
Re: the path of tolerance...
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté Believer,
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Believer
Namaste Yajvan,
Evidently there has been a misunderstanding/miscommunication on both sides. And I am sorry for my part.
About my values; in my 800 plus posts, I have laid bare my soul by offering views on issues ranging from teenage masturbation to my disgust with self loathing universalists (posing as Hindus) to Is God really compassionate and more. Some people love me for my views, some merely tolerate me and others hate my guts. There is not much more I can say that will make me 'better understood' in the forum.
The forum is not about me, but about Hinduism. :)
Pranam.
I thank you for your mature response and gain additional respect for your posts. Yes, mis-understandings occur both here and in our face-to-face interactions within our community. The best we can do is to offer clarity of one's position, apologise when mis-understood, and grow from the experience ( if possible).
praṇām
Re: the path of tolerance...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Believer
Namaste Yajvan,
Evidently there has been a misunderstanding/miscommunication on both sides. And I am sorry for my part.
About my values; in my 800 plus posts, I have laid bare my soul by offering views on issues ranging from teenage masturbation to my disgust with self loathing universalists (posing as Hindus) to Is God really compassionate and more. Some people love me for my views, some merely tolerate me and others hate my guts. There is not much more I can say that will make me 'better understood' in the forum.
The forum is not about me, but about Hinduism. :)
Pranam.
I do not always agree...or maybe i have, i do not keep track:p
But, I do Love you so very much. Because you come from the heart, you can feel it...a true poet heart.
I would post this in kudos, but i always run out...and forgive me if it's too much.
But, Beloved have mercy! Any Portion lucky enough to be in your physical Darshan must have been given a boon by Shiva HimSelf. Even here...in this limited state, i feel lucky.
So, maybe i am disagreeing with you a lil this time.
This forum is very much about You, and Beloved Yajvan...and EM...and EVERY One! All of You<3
You make this possible...You make this Great. and we also can make this....
Tolerant or Compassionate...or Educational...or...Silly:p (that's my job)
You all make this place Great...a Home.
Beloved's Home<3
Re: the path of tolerance...
Namaste Naya,
Thanks for the platitudes, but we have a homely which roughly translates to, 'Any village idiot can create the illusion of being a great sage, to the people outside his own village.'
I rest my case.:)
Pranam.
Re: the path of tolerance...
There's an old saying here....one about....
Puting daisies in the outhouse.
No matter how many you put out there....at some point...it's going to start to stink.:p
Just give it some time.
from my experience, i think it is wiser to be the fool anyway. No one mistakes you for the King when uprisings happen.:p
Re: the path of tolerance...
Namaste NS,
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NayaSurya
Here, it is very different. I was taught that jesus was the only way...only way.
You have three types of people in the world.
1. Those who never heard the "good news" about jesus dying for your sins.
-Which those must be found immediately....to save them. But, it was admitted that those who never heard the Good News were bound for heaven, but it was not as glorious as those who had heard and did the right thing by accepting jesus.
2. Those who heard the Good News and didn't listen. These are hell bound.
3. Good xtians in good standing with jesus. Heaven bound.
Yeah, Christians are made to believe the above. My daughter is in a Christian Missionary run college right now. The College is under the administrative control of hard-core catholic christians. So, she was not so happy with their attitude of forcing their doctrines down the throat in one form or the other.
In fact, she has a very good friend who is a Christian. She tried to convince my daughter (This effort became stronger when my daughter fell ill in the hostel and she was taken care of by same Christian friend) how important it was to accept Jesus as her saviour ! However, my daughter is well versed in VedAnta. All this Jesus-centric mentality appears childish to her. She simply said to her friend, "Are you happy accepting Jesus as your saviour ? If yes, let me be happy with my VedAnta. And we can still be good friends, OK ?".
So, the friendship continues ...
OM
Re: the path of tolerance...
Hello,
I found it very strange how this kind of thing works Oo I mean, my country is essentially christian (even if we now live together with many muslims) and it's very rude for someone to try to convince people or even to talk about his/her faith that way.
My aunt is very very christian, she is the only one in the family to go to church nearly every weeks. Nobody in the family do like this, and still she never tried to convince anyone she was right and when I am at her home she never tries to convert me. In fact, we nearly never talk about religion in my country, it's very personnal. I found very strange those stories of people saying they are saved, and trying to save others O___O I found this...rude.
Maybe it's because in the US, many follows the churches. Many people in my country says they believe in God, but not in the church.
I will go to a family in the US soon for work, I hope they will be nice to me and not like the ones you describe ^^"
Aum~
Re: the path of tolerance...
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté
One may ask, yajvan, why all the attention for you on this tolerance (sahiṣṇutā¹) ?
For me, it falls into the group of niyama-s¹ ( observances) . It is tapasya - self-contol and tolerance. It is ahiṁsā - nonviolence in speech. Yet too it is śauca - cleanliness . How can it be this ?
It is śauca that applies to one's mind. What one speaks it first comes in the mind, then to the tongue. So it is the cleanliness of mind to not generate anger or wrath in one's own mind, but also not in the mind of others. This takes some practice (tapasya), in this case my own.
You see, these approaches need to permeate one's behavior in all conditions. Hence this is my practice ; yet I fall, and get back up. It is the getting back up that is the lesson.
praṇām
words
- sahiṣṇutā or sahiṣṇu is patience, ~ tolerance~.
- niyama - control, restraint, management of the self ( small 's' intended here)
Re: the path of tolerance...
Q. How did your parents react to theconversion?
A. My parents actually never said much.In Bamberg, we were brought up with everyone trying to convert us. It was like“You have to go to church or you’re going to hell.” My mom would actually takeus to the churches and say “I want you to pay attention to this becauseeveryone has their way to God.” She is the one who taught us that you can’thave too much God in your life.
So when I had theconversion, they never questioned it, they never said anything, and that’s whyI’m so protective of them because during the campaigns, people wanted me todeny the Sikh faith or say something negative about it, and I would never dothat because those are the people who raised me. The way they raised me wasperfect, and it made me who I am.
We chose Christianitybecause of the way we wanted to live our life and raise our children — it hadnothing to do with me thinking there was anything wrong with the way I wasraised, and everything to do with the fact that I am moving forward in my lifeand had to find a path I felt was right for me.
………NimrataNikki Randhawa, AKA Nikki Haley is used toattracting more attention than your typical United States governor….
http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/04/a-conversation-with-nikki-haley/?hp
The steady pressure applied on all immigrants during their school years especially in small towns has a telling effect on her and on Piyush (Bobby) Jindal, Gov of Louisiana. Sotherefore preaching tolerance to the most tolerant faith on the planet here is somewhat baffling, obviously there appear to have a lack of perception on your part, of the ground reality or some genuine confusion on the methodology applied by the abrahamics. For example, Devotee has posted both # 19 and #11 and one can easily deduce from them as to who needs to exercise restraint and tolerance and who has to protest. The two posts are mutually at loggerheads and, he could have remained silent on this thread. Europe was converted with a brutal and savage campaign, then the Africa and asia were partly converted with invasions and sustained pressure. A few years ago, the American delegation that went to North korea, on a non governamental mediation mission, has a fox newsreporter and a celebrity pastor by name William Franklin Graham in their team. You can figure what shape the future religious landscape of that land would take with all the potential conditional funding that would flow in there. The evangelilcals have infiltrated the highest offices of this nation and other nations. Indian politicians are bribed to the hilt to allow their way and convert the tribals and other poorer people merrily by thousands, all with money power. Tolerance is not a two way street for sure, hindus are preached and lectured how wrong thier faith is and how important and urgent that they switched.
Re: the path of tolerance...
Namaste,
Thanks Charitra for putting it so eloquently. This thread really belongs in a Xitian forum. I am sure the intent for this conversation was right, but the plea needs to be made to Abrahamics, not to Hindus, except when they are the self loathing kind.
Pranam.
