Re: Aham Brahmasmi -2 - Discussion on Scriptures
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I find that people don't listen at all to what the Advaitins say .... they themselves (Non-Advaitins) don't understand how it works and they keep finding their own arguments and their own wrong inferences. In the above discussion, Sanathan doesn't know how the Consciousness works or mind works and what exactly Mithya means but starts applying his logic in without respecting the frameworks of the Axioms in the context of Advaitic discussion. So, it doesn't reach anywhere, as it is bound to be.
Pranamams!
Dear Devotee,
I have listened all your words, but you didn't answer any of my questions with proper logic, but just put assumptions and asked me to believe them.
Yes, I don't know how consciousness works and what mithya is..do you know it?..is there any knower at all to know how consciousness works? that disproves your theory of pure-cosnciosuness.
I don't know why you can not see a simple logic .
You are iterating same things..that there are some mind waves in consciousness , but how do you know that man? then you have given answer that "self-realizaed" person knows it..so there is a knower of that state..that disproves your statement that "it is pure consciosuness without a knower of it".
And there are many statements made by you are just assumptions or imaginations of your own, not advaitic..one such I pointed out was "after every sleep a new "i" is created .." ..please first read sastras and also use logic , mere imaginations can't help you or me.
For your information..all these discussions are happening between you and me ..who are subjects, but you are denying the very subject as illusion ..but you forget one fact that..to declare such fact.."you" are required who is again a knower of that fact..otherwise that fact itself can not be declared.
If you are really searching TRUTH or already found the TRUTH..then you should not have any fear to think on each and every point I have raised here should be able to answer it..
If you just want to stick to your pre decided thoughts or convictions, then ofcourse you won't dare to try to think on my points .
Re: Aham Brahmasmi -2 - Discussion on Scriptures
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Krishna's MAyA is the same as the Advaitin's MAyA. Krishna Himself says that MAyA is very powerful, "Mama MAyA durtyayA".
Is it? then whom does Krishna refer as "can't overcome it".. is there anyone else other than Krishna and Maya?
You have one cosnciousness , one maya..now tell me who is that can not overcome "maya"..
I know your answer ..it goes like this.. an illusory being created by the maya in consciosuness can not overcome it..do you see any logic there?
Does the illosry being achieve any thing fruiteful by do sadhana..as per your theory..the "i" vanishes after every sleep..so why do "i" need to try to overcome this maya at all..anyway it will get vanished after sleep..if itself vanishes what is there to get liberated? Think on..
Re: Aham Brahmasmi -2 - Discussion on Scriptures
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If you read Bhagwad Gita Chapter 2 and chapter 13 carefully, you will understand that there is only one Truth which manifests as both Jiva and Ishvara and that is Brahman.
Is it so..? so you don't want to read other chapters "carefully"..is this not the play of ahankara? since the theory of yours can be establsihed by you with 2,13 chapters..you will put more stress on them..and ignore others as "secondary".. Very well.. don't we want TRUTH as it is? do we go behind them where our ego satisfies with out pre-decided notions ?
Re: Aham Brahmasmi -2 - Discussion on Scriptures
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You have no idea what "i" means or in what context it has been used. The first characteristic of presence of "i" i.e. ahamkAr is that it should be able to distinguish itself for other things around it. In deep sleep, there is no such differentiation ... how can there be an "i" ? Please remember that existence of an "i" means presence of Consciousness but the reverse of it is not true.
I don't know what "I" means? funny..you are finally trying to deny my experiences also :)
Let us first talk about our current state..
I perceive the outer world using my senses..my mind is used to think..so all the while "I" know myself doing as such and , yes I can also distinguish myself from whatever is "known as world" to me..
So in waking state or current state.. "I" am there, "world" is there..and I am experiencing/perceiving this world using my knowledge..when my knowledge is in contact with world through the senses and mind. Do you agree on this interpretation ? This is every one's general experience..if you oppose your general experience..then we have no chance to discuss.because with this view only I am discussing with you , or with this view only anyone in this world will interact with others.
First conclude your stand on "your" current experience.