Caste/Varna System ?

Namskar Gurujans,
I was reading the Shrimad Bhadvad Gita in Hindi by the GITA PRESS and its English Translation by SRI SWAMI SIVANANDA (DIVINE LIFE SOCIETY PUBLICATION).I have reached THE YOGA OF WISDOM Chapter.I am posting the verse-

Chaaturvarnyam mayaa srishtam gunakarma vibhaagashah;
Tasya kartaaram api maam viddhyakartaaram avyayam.


The fourfold caste has been created by Me according to the differentiation of Guna and
Karma; though I am the author thereof, know Me as the non-doer and immutable.


COMMENTARY: The four castes are Brahmana, Kshatriya, Vaisya and Sudra. This
division is according to the Guna and Karma. Guna is quality. Karma is the kind of work. Both
Guna and Karma determine the caste of a man.
In a Brahmana, Sattwa predominates. He possesses serenity, purity, self-restraint,
straightforwardness and devotion.
In a Kshatriya, Rajas predominates. He possesses prowess, splendour, firmness, dexterity,
generosity and rulership.
In a Vaisya, Rajas predominates and Tamas is subordinate to Rajas. He does the duty of
ploughing, protection of cattle and trade.
In a Sudra, Tamas predominates and Rajas is subordinate to the quality of Tamas. He
renders service to the other three castes. Human temperaments and tendencies vary according to the
Gunas.

So,Does that mean the Varna System was correct as the Bhagvad Gita is the ultimate Source of Wisdom?

What about the fact that now it is not followed?

Please Enlighten me about this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abhishek Born Again

So,Does that mean the Varna System was correct as the Bhagvad Gita is the ultimate Source of Wisdom?

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Yes. Varna system is proclaimed in the Vedas as well. Not sure what you mean by "correct" here, though.

Quote:

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What about the fact that now it is not followed?

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What makes you think it is not followed? [It is.] You mean, there are no Brahmins, Vaishyas, Kshatriyas and Shudras any more? [There are.] Are you saying that there are no non-Indian Brahmins, Shudhras, etc.? [There are.]

Disclaimer: This topic has been dealt with endlessly in the past. Check the past posts. It has led to many banned members, members who don't post anymore, internet angst, lost sleep etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wundermonk

Yes. Varna system is proclaimed in the Vedas as well. Not sure what you mean by "correct" here, though.



What makes you think it is not followed? [It is.] You mean, there are no Brahmins, Vaishyas, Kshatriyas and Shudras any more? [There are.] Are you saying that there are no non-Indian Brahmins, Shudhras, etc.? [There are.]

Disclaimer: This topic has been dealt with endlessly in the past. Check the past posts. It has led to many banned members, members who don't post anymore, internet angst, lost sleep etc.

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Namaste Wundermonk ji,
I had no intentions to annoy anyone with this thread.I just posted out of curiosity and as I wanted to learn:confused:.

Pardon me but I know that there are still Brahmins,Kshtriyas,Vaishyas and Shudras.I mean that the Varna system was like Brahmins will do the Worship in the Temples,the Kshtriyas will Protect the country,the Vaishyas will do Agriculture and Farming Jobs and the Shudras will Clean the society,but today we see that everyone doesnot stick to this "norm" but do whatever they are capable of and in which thing they have an aptitude (and for me that is how it should be) which means it doesn't mean that a Brahmin's son must be a Pandit in the Temple,but he can take up other jobs too like he can serve in the army (A Kshtriya's Job).

Now,I guess I am able to make you understand the Question Sir.:)And I did some searching in the Forum and just got one thread related to this Topic in which it said that Varna system depends upon our Karma or something.Like a Kshtriya (I don't recall the name) did Tapasya and became a great Brahmin Saint.

And if anybody has links related to this.Please share it.

Dhanyavad

Namaste ABG,

These threads may help :

http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthr...sunderstanding

http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthr...-a-heavy-heart

Namaste,

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Originally Posted by Abhishek Born Again

Pardon me but I know that there are still Brahmins,Kshtriyas,Vaishyas and Shudras.........
.........but today we see that everyone doesnot stick to this "norm" but do whatever they are capable of...........
Now,I guess I am able to make you understand the Question

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I believe you know what you are trying to ask but it is not coming out clearly. If you look at the above statements, they are contradictory.

To give a short answer to your perceived dilemma, people do what they are capable of, as you say, but there is an underclass which performs menial tasks. In any society, be it in India or in the US, all types of work have to be done to sustain a civilization. Some become politicians to manage the country, some become defenders of the country by joining the army, some conduct trade to bring to and sell to the consumers what has been manufactured or grown by others, some grow food for us and some keep the city clean. If you want to give labels to all these people, that is your choice. But the type of work anyone does comes as a result of their aptitude, their exposure to things around them and the opportunity and support provided to them either by the family or collectively by the Govt. There are white collar workers and there blue collar workers; there are people who make their living using their intellect/brains and there are others who are savvy in wheeling and dealing; there are politicians who pick your pockets legally and then there are real pickpockets; there are people sitting in the control towers at the airports punching away at the keyboards and barking orders to the pilots to keep everything safe and there are others who handle a broom/shovel to remove garbage and keep disease away. To stick to the traditional labels is your choice.

My last comment to you is to read scriptures with the intent of finding spiritual things that help you grow and get closer to the divine. Getting bogged down with definitions and all kinds of non-sense is a waste of your time and other people's time. Rise above the mundane in search of the gems.

Pranam.

Namaste,
Sorry for my late reply.And I would like to Thank you all for the replies especially Believer ji to point out what I really needed to know that to read scriptures to find the gems and learn from them.

Dhanyavad

Namaste,
My observation on the prevalent of caste system between 0CE to around 1800 CE. Some of these are speculation and some parts are logical deductions.
There were no doubts that there are 4 caste in the Indian Society which was inherently occupation linked.
Any economy needs the producers, the distributers(the whole sellers retailers etc), the protectors of them from external and internal miscreants (i.e. akin to modern day policemen from thieves and robbers;and military from external enemies if the kingdom.) and somebody to propagate the Dharma so that people live a moral and ethical lives. And we also know that India didnt have big Industries; instead small scale household industries were present in every village and in every household. It was an interdependent economy. For eg: there were blacksmiths who made tools for the farmers and in return they got grains from the latter.

I'll talk about the producers classes because the rest is self-evident.
In India surnames tell us much about their traditional activity.
for eg Suthar(Carpenters), Lohar(Blacksmiths) Nayi(Barbers) Bunkar community (Traditionally making Clothes) Chamars (tanners) Mochi(Making shoes) Kumbhars (Pottery makers) etc just to name a few. Most of these producer communities might be prosperous because till the British Came we used to have a world export share to around 25%. And when the British destroyed the manufacturing centers which were the households they may have dropped down in status and became economically weak.
To illustrate it : The periyars of tamilnadu were very good temple makers and architects but when the British outlawed building new temples in 1890 the whole community lost their livelihood and became poor.
these castes are what the govt of India classified it as backward classes and Scheduled Caste traditionally even named as Shudras and untouchables. I dont know from where the untouchability vice entered during the british system because it was unknown during pre and post vedic times tracing it to even 1800's.
Namaste.

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Originally Posted by unmesh dave

I'll talk about the producers classes because the rest is self-evident.
In India surnames tell us much about their traditional activity.
for eg Suthar(Carpenters), Lohar(Blacksmiths) Nayi(Barbers) Bunkar community (Traditionally making Clothes) Chamars (tanners) Mochi(Making shoes) Kumbhars (Pottery makers) etc just to name a few.

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Hello! Thank you for this answer. I am new here, and I have very little knowledge about Hinduism and Indian culture. I have come to this lovely forum to learn, but it is a lot to absorb as there are clearly a lot of experts here. I was interested in how surnames in India point to trades. Are most Indian surnames associated with a traditional occupation, or just some? What about the surnames Singh, Patel, and Shah (common surnames in my area)? Is Singh only related to Sikhism? I apologize for the ignorance behind my questions and if I am derailing a thread. If this type of inquiry is inappropriate for these forums, please let me know. If so, I will go back to being a respectful reader and not ask such rudimentary questions.