Daily Chanting

[orlando]

Namaste all.
If the thing has worked I have attached some music files that I have downloaded (legally because it is permitted) from an ISKCON italian site.
I consider very beatiful Prapannam06b and Ramadance-Ramava.
Only one file is not taken from that ISCKON site.
It is Meat is muder.Although the song is singed in English,it is chanted from an italian singer:Claudia Pastorino.


I did download it at http://www.claudiapastorino.it/musica2.html

Regards,
Orlando.

[Sudarshan]

Namaste Shri Sudarshan.
I think that silent meditation is not suitable for everyone.-
For example my-self.My mind is like a monkey!It does what it wants!
I am able (even if not totally) to control it though Rama-nama and in general nama-japa.
Regards,
Orlando.

Silent meditation is not suitabke for ANYONE. It has to be acquired from constant practice alone. It needs patience and you dont do things overnight.

I have been honestly searching for a few years about the exact import of the teachings of Srivaishnavism. As you know, two independent methods are described for Srivaishnavas. One is Bhakti Yoga and the other in Prapatti.

Bhakti Yoga of Srivaishnavism is grossly misunderstood and misrepresented. Please read Sri Ramanuja's Gitabhasya to know what exactly Bhakti means. Bhakti itself is defined by Sri Ramanuja as sneha pUrvam anudhyAnam - or intense loving uninterrupted meditation on Sriman Narayanan. Nothing short of this has been classified as Bhakti by Sri Ramanuja. Three grades of Bhakti are accepted by Sri Ramanuja, Para Bhakti, Para Jnana and Parama Bhakti.

Para Bhakti is the stage when the Lord can be seen through the inner eye in the meditation( samAdhi). Para Jnana is a more detailed knowledge about God (apaoxa) and a kind of wisdom that fades away when samAdhi is broken. Parama Bhakti is that in which the Lord is seen anytime anywhere and in everything. So that is what Bhakti is all about in Srivaishnavism. It is certainly more than singing, dancing etc, which are later developments of Hinduism. Bhakti is knowledge and vision of God in samAdhi and nothing short of it.

The qualifications for a such a practice is rather higher and hence an alternative is offered to people who cannot pursue all these - this is Prapatti Marga or the path of self surrender to God. This is also kind of misrepresneted and sometimes I hear people making mocking remarks on this path of Srivaishnavism. I have talked on this issue with many Srivaishnavas, non Srivaishnavas and other Vaishnavas, and have come to the conclusion that Prapatti is nothing different from extreme Vairagya.

Prapatti cannot be mere ritualistic path. It implies extreme Vairagya in the prapanna and his qualifications are described by Srimad Vedanta Desika. Vairagya means complete non attachment. You associate yourself with Narayana alone, and not with the human body. You no longer care for the body, whether it is sick, or you are insulted or people sue you or any eaethly misery is viewed by you as "nothing". There is no human from whom you will seek help of any kind- except the divine. That is true pratpatti as I understand, and as you observe it is more easy than Bhakti Yoga, but not as easy as you imagine. A true prapanna of this kind will definitely "see" Lord Vishnu before he dies. Surender to God cannot be just in word isn't it? If it is in deed, it is equal to Bhakti Yoga.

So both paths of Srivaishnavism are only variants of Jnana marga only for people of different temperaments.

Also, Srivaishnavism is a vedantic religion that came out of Pancharatra system. Read the history of the Pancharatra religion carefully, and you can find easily that these Bhagavatas were actually much closer to Kashmir Tantrics in practice. Their life styles were very close to a sanyasin, with only difference - the Srivaishnava was allowed to marry and give birth to children only for giving the spiritual guidance. Other than that, he is like a sanyasin. The Panchartra means of worship was five fold - abhigamana, upAdhAna, ijyA, swAdhyAya and yoga . The Yoga here is only some kind of Raja Yoga which was practised by all early Srivaishnavas. I do not know how this tradition was lost, but the Yogic tradition is completely lost for Srivaishnavas. I am just assuming that people got too lazy.

The effect of all these is that nowadays Srivaishnavas think that medittaion and Yoga are all alien to their tradition, while it is the core of this religion. Very few people will take all these seriously. In all his kindness for the degenerating humanity, Sri Ramanuja sacrificed many core tenets of the faith, so that religion could be practised easier. That does not, however mean, that you should not try to become a mystic like Sri Ramanuja or Alwars by the practice of Yoga. All Alwars and the early Vaishnava Acharyas were only Yogis and mystics though the very talk of it taken with scepticism and opposed these days.

[satay]

Prapatti cannot be mere ritualistic path. It implies extreme Vairagya in the prapanna and his qualifications are described by Srimad Vedanta Desika. Vairagya means complete non attachment. You associate yourself with Narayana alone, and not with the human body. You no longer care for the body, whether it is sick, or you are insulted or people sue you or any eaethly misery is viewed by you as "nothing". There is no human from whom you will seek help of any kind- except the divine. That is true pratpatti as I understand, and as you observe it is more easy than Bhakti Yoga, but not as easy as you imagine. A true prapanna of this kind will definitely "see" Lord Vishnu before he dies. Surender to God cannot be just in word isn't it? If it is in deed, it is equal to Bhakti Yoga.

namaste!
Nice post. I am just wondering about 'prapatti'...I take it at face value what you are saying here and that's not a problem. But doesn't this mean we are throwing all logic out the window?

I mean if your car is stuck on the highway without gas you will have to make arragements to get gas...leaving everything to the lord is not going to be very practical. similary, if you are sick I mean it just makes sense to pop a pill or are you implying that with prapati it is irrelevant what happens here in this world and the man is so out of his mind and refuses to use reason and logic?

just curious...

[Sudarshan]

namaste!
Nice post. I am just wondering about 'prapatti'...I take it at face value what you are saying here and that's not a problem. But doesn't this mean we are throwing all logic out the window?

I mean if your car is stuck on the highway without gas you will have to make arragements to get gas...leaving everything to the lord is not going to be very practical. similary, if you are sick I mean it just makes sense to pop a pill or are you implying that with prapati it is irrelevant what happens here in this world and the man is so out of his mind and refuses to use reason and logic?

just curious...

Ideally yes. To such a person who has resigned his fate to the Lord like this - everything is taken care by God himself. By the way Satay, what is the worst fate of anybody? Death? If somebody overcomes this fear, he is as good as united with God. None of us have been liberated yet because we have neither done Bhakti Yoga in the past nor Prapatti Yoga properly. Practicality is not the question - perfection alone leads to God, and how to achieve this perfection is the key.

I beleive in only two paths to God -

The path of Jnana or Bhakti - In which you do Yogic practice like Raja Yoga or Kundalini Yoga until the vision of God. Karma is burnt by the fire of Jnana here.

The path of Saranagati or Prapatti in which you offer yourself to be blown away by your Karma, not fearing or caring for anything whatsoever, accept whatever comes your way without a hint of disapproval or protest. Might sound too idealistic, but mukti is also idealistic, and only the truly deserving will get it. But this means you have to do your duties, and not be idle. Prapatti does not require you to be actionless, but never expect any reward for any of your actions, and treat misery and joy with equanimity. Dont you think this is severely insisted in BG? Prapatti is the highest form of Karma Yoga. Jnana is obtained by the depletion of Karma in this path. When Karma has disappeared by such pure actions, what fuel is there to cause a next birth? If at all you are still born again, it will be only in the midst of the greatest Yogis!!

[satay]

By the way Satay, what is the worst fate of anybody? Death? If somebody overcomes this fear, he is as good as united with God.

personally the greatest fear for me is not death but actually being in an accident and being crippled for life. I think that is more problematic than death. I worry about it all the time what if there is a time where I can not do something that I love doing right now. e.g. with a heartattack or something that you loose part of your brain or part of your bodily functions. That is my greatest fear (and heights) but death I look forward to...

Death I see as a gateway to another dimension and as osho says...never born never died...just visited this planet from this date to that date...

[Sudarshan]

personally the greatest fear for me is not death but actually being in an accident and being crippled for life. I think that is more problematic than death. I worry about it all the time what if there is a time where I can not do something that I love doing right now. e.g. with a heartattack or something that you loose part of your brain or part of your bodily functions. That is my greatest fear (and heights) but death I look forward to...

Death I see as a gateway to another dimension and as osho says...never born never died...just visited this planet from this date to that date...

I remembered the analogy cited by a very great Vaishnava Acharya.

Let us say that as a child you wanted a toffee. You asked your father and he refused to buy it. What would you do if you badly needed it? You will refuse to take lunch that day, a strike! Your father may not care. Then, if you are adamant you will skip dinner. Your dad will get concerned but may not still get you the tofee. However, if you continue this strike for 3 days, your dad will be alarmed and will get the toffee for you.

Same is God. If you repeatedly refuse to protect yourself from dangers and demand his appearance and go on similar "toffee" strike, God will be forced to come down for you. He is the more than a father to all of us. This is the real secret to God realization!

[satay]

I remembered the analogy cited by a very great Vaishnava Acharya.

Let us say that as a child you wanted a toffee. You asked your father and he refused to buy it. What would you do if you badly needed it? You will refuse to take lunch that day, a strike! Your father may not care. Then, if you are adamant you will skip dinner. Your dad will get concerned but may not still get you the tofee. However, if you continue this strike for 3 days, your dad will be alarmed and will get the toffee for you.

Same is God. If you repeatedly refuse to protect yourself from dangers and demand his appearance and go on similar "toffee" strike, God will be forced to come down for you. He is the more than a father to all of us. This is the real secret to God realization!

Interesting. I see your point in a way. My dad always says something along these lines. He is the kind of person who doesn't follow much rules. He feels that durga is his mother and as mother she must listen to him even though he may be breaking some rules. He says that as a devotee one must be able to make a demand and that demand has to be met just like a child makes a demand and no matter how hard a parent want to ignore it eventually parent is going to meet the child's demand. it's a kind of a funny logic but I see the point.

I however choose a different way and say that making demands of the supreme is not a good thing at all. But my dad argues that a child must have the confidence in him/her self that if he makes a demand the parent will comply. I see the logic but I never dare to make a demand...this maybe has something to do with one's own 'makeup'

Strangely...ma durga seems to listen to this spoiled child of hers for whatever reason (not not me...my dad!)

[sarabhanga]

I mean if your car is stuck on the highway without gas you will have to make arrangements to get gas...leaving everything to the lord is not going to be very practical.

prapatti is “pious resignation or devotion” (the foundation of Bhakti ~ i.e faith), and Sudarshan is quite correct ~ with total devotion, the appropriate arrangements will ALWAYS be made. If one’s aims are worldly, however, the details (e.g. the timing, the route, or even the mode of transport) of such divine arrangements may not exactly match with mundane expectations!

prapAta is “springing forth”, and prapatti is the same “leap of faith” recommended by Christians.

[sarabhanga]

Namaste Orlando,

I prefer the original version, by The Smiths.

There is a link to an MP3 file on the following page: Meat is Murder

[Sudarshan]

Interesting. I see your point in a way. My dad always says something along these lines. He is the kind of person who doesn't follow much rules. He feels that durga is his mother and as mother she must listen to him even though he may be breaking some rules. He says that as a devotee one must be able to make a demand and that demand has to be met just like a child makes a demand and no matter how hard a parent want to ignore it eventually parent is going to meet the child's demand. it's a kind of a funny logic but I see the point.

I however choose a different way and say that making demands of the supreme is not a good thing at all. But my dad argues that a child must have the confidence in him/her self that if he makes a demand the parent will comply. I see the logic but I never dare to make a demand...this maybe has something to do with one's own 'makeup'

Strangely...ma durga seems to listen to this spoiled child of hers for whatever reason (not not me...my dad!)

Rule breakers will finally get thier demands too, but if the demands are spiritual in nature while still breaking rules, you will need to face trials and tribulations in plenty before you finally get there.