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Thread: Secular India

  1. #1
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    Secular India

    Last edited by Believer; 15 August 2012 at 01:37 PM. Reason: added clarification per McKitty's question

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    Re: Secular India

    Vanakkam,

    Hm, are you asking for the opinion of secular people in general (living in secular countries for exemple) or the opinion of secular Hindus specifically ?

    Sorry to ask, I couldn't guess from your post ^^'

    Aum Namah Shivaya

    EDIT: Thank you for your edit =)
    Last edited by McKitty; 15 August 2012 at 02:03 PM.
    ~Aum Namah Shivaya~

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    Re: Secular India

    \begin{Putting on pseudo "secular" Hindu hat}

    These are not true Muslims. These people are distorting the Islamic faith because Islam is the religion of peace. Islam does not permit violence.

    \end{Removing pseudo "secular" Hindu hat}

    Was that a Paki flag that I saw in the first video? If yes, it is beyond disgusting. Please be prepared for the coming 2nd partition of whatever is left of India. Emmigrate out of India, if possible, because India is a lost cause.

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    Re: Secular India

    I consider myself a 'Secular' India-born Hindu. By the way, in what context is it being asked here? someone who believes India has to be tolerant of other religions (should they happen to live in India) or someone who thinks it is must that other cultures and religions should be present in INdia to make it rich? -- Funny I belong to neither group - I am secular in the sense I respect all religions - but that is left at that - I do not believe Muslims like that portrayed in the videos should be polluting Indian soil -- but like wonderMunk asks, are they Muslims?

    Give poverty + illiteracy + population + oppression from Military, regime rules -what we all will get is not 'religious' population but an ARROGANT MOB.

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    Re: Secular India

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspirant01 View Post
    someone who believes India has to be tolerant of other religions (should they happen to live in India)
    India is basically the sum of its parts - 1.2 Billion parts make up India. I think what Believer wants to ease out from us is, what to do, if 150 million parts of India do not believe in secularism. Why is secularism only the preserve of Hindus in India? Where is the charity being shown by Indian Muslims? Is it visible to you? If it is not visible to you, how do you even know that 150 million Muslims are not giving tacit approval to actions like those in the OP videos?

    What exactly has changed in India since 1947 that will prevent another partition where Muslims get another piece of geography carved out for themselves? No place in India is sacred for them. They do not sing Vande Mataram. They have replaced the Indic scripts (be it Devanagari or Tamil) with Arabic scripts. They bow down to a place 1000s of miles away in the Arabian Desert in the name of worshipping a God five times a day. Where is all of this leading to? Can you infer?

    but like wonderMunk asks, are they Muslims?
    I guess you did not notice the \begin{} and \end{} tags I used.

    Give poverty + illiteracy + population + oppression from Military, regime rules -what we all will get is not 'religious' population but an ARROGANT MOB.
    Please do not reduce this incident to the simplistic belief that those people in the mob have no religious motivation but other factors such as poverty, illiteracy, etc.

    Hindus are slaughtered in Pakistan/Bangladesh on a daily basis. Do Indian Hindus go on a rampage in India? These Muslims were protesting the alleged killing of Muslims in far away Assam and Burma. Why do not Indian Muslims burn buses when Christian children are killed in Egypt? Why do not Indian Muslims burn buses when Hindus are killed in Pakistan? Is there love for their fellow human only on display when the alleged victim in a far away land happens to be a fellow Muslim? If yes, why is this? Indian Muslims want India to cut off diplomatic ties with Israel? Why do you think this is?

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    Re: Secular India

    Quote Originally Posted by wundermonk View Post
    If it is not visible to you, how do you even know that 150 million Muslims are not giving tacit approval to actions like those in the OP videos?
    There cannot be a scientifically proven 'fraction' that can be given as an answer. The same can be asked of Hindus - HOW MANY OF US HINDUS ARE SHAKEN SO MUCH BY THE ACTIONS THAT WE ARE READY TO DO WHAT AN AMERICA DOES TO MUSLIMS? DO YOU KNOW 'US' SECRETLY HAS DATA ON EACH MUSLIM LIVING IN ITS SOIL? Or for practical reasons, how many plain-down-to-earth Hindus are shaken by the violence such as one that happened in Mumbai? The answer is 'we simply are too pre-occupied with ourselves that we do not care'. Similarly, I consider many Muslims are either not concerned but nevertheless unsupportive of the acts because it is not in their means to protest because they will then be killed by their own community -- I am not saying every Muslim belongs to this category, but atleast some are - ofthe 150 million or so - atleast not everyone is bad - is what I am trying to say.

    Hindus are slaughtered in Pakistan/Bangladesh on a daily basis. Do Indian Hindus go on a rampage in India? These Muslims were protesting the alleged killing of Muslims in far away Assam and Burma. Why do not Indian Muslims burn buses when Christian children are killed in Egypt? Why do not Indian Muslims burn buses when Hindus are killed in Pakistan? Is there love for their fellow human only on display when the alleged victim in a far away land happens to be a fellow Muslim? If yes, why is this? Indian Muslims want India to cut off diplomatic ties with Israel? Why do you think this is?
    I think the culprit is our Central Govt. They literally do not have ANY COURAGE. I think India can bring in Military rule and curb the violent Muslims.

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    Re: Secular India

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspirant01 View Post
    There cannot be a scientifically proven 'fraction' that can be given as an answer.
    Sure, a scientifically proven fraction cannot be given. But I believe we can infer something based on the answers to the following questions.

    Q) What is the status of non-Muslims in Muslim lands practically?
    A)______________

    Q) What is the status of non-Muslims in Muslim lands as per the Quran?
    A)______________

    Q)Why do you think partition happened in Indian in 1947?
    A)______________

    Q)What has changed in Indian since 1947 that we can confidently state that there will never be another partition?
    A)______________


    Similarly, I consider many Muslims are either not concerned but nevertheless unsupportive of the acts because it is not in their means to protest because they will then be killed by their own community -- I am not saying every Muslim belongs to this category, but atleast some are - ofthe 150 million or so - atleast not everyone is bad - is what I am trying to say.
    Why do you think Muslims are so violent so as to kill anyone who disagrees with them? If, as you admit, Muslims kill those who disagree with them, how should non-Muslims handle this virulence amongst Muslims? What are the options we have?

    I think the culprit is our Central Govt. They literally do not have ANY COURAGE. I think India can bring in Military rule and curb the violent Muslims.
    I agree with the first two sentences. But the last sentence requires more clarification. What if the violence in Muslims is directly derived from the Quran. What to do then?

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    Re: Secular India

    I am running extremely short of time - I am on vacation for next 3 days - so I can't answer elaboratively.

    All I can say is, "How do you judge violence in Muslims is a direct product of Quran?". (For that matter, I believe what is said in Quran is not even its exact meaning....) (No, I haven't read the Quran but read few verses of it like how Prophet Mohammed was transported to Mecca where he realized his own self and met various angels that Allah sent before him... and I believe he truly is a messenger of GOD as there are many good folks in the religion too).

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    Re: Secular India

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspirant01 View Post
    No, I haven't read the Quran
    You should before attempting to defend Islam on HDF.

    but read few verses of it like how Prophet Mohammed was transported to Mecca where he realized his own self and met various angels that Allah sent before him... and I believe he truly is a messenger of GOD as there are many good folks in the religion too).
    Wait a minute. The boldened part does not gel well with what you said earlier:

    I consider myself a 'Secular' India-born Hindu.
    Hinduism does not have a concept of messengerhood.

    I know you have not read the Quran, but pardon me, but you seem ignorant of basic Hindu beliefs also.

    Forgive me for asking, are you Hindu?

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    Re: Secular India

    Quote Originally Posted by wundermonk View Post
    \begin{Putting on pseudo "secular" Hindu hat}

    These are not true Muslims. These people are distorting the Islamic faith because Islam is the religion of peace. Islam does not permit violence.

    \end{Removing pseudo "secular" Hindu hat}

    Was that a Paki flag that I saw in the first video? If yes, it is beyond disgusting. Please be prepared for the coming 2nd partition of whatever is left of India. Emmigrate out of India, if possible, because India is a lost cause.
    Heh, someone's been writing in LaTeX.

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