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Thread: Secular India

  1. #11
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    Re: Secular India

    Quote Originally Posted by wundermonk View Post
    You should before attempting to defend Islam on HDF.
    Atleast I have Madhwa and Kabir to quote. LOL.

  2. #12
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    Re: Secular India

    One must not begin a post with aargh.Nevertheless.....
    AARGHHH!!!!!!
    It is idiotic to say that there is sone such thing as a secular person or a secular country for that matter.
    Secularism means the non-interference of the state in religious affairs and vice versa.

    The meaning of secularism begins and ends there.A person cannot be secular.Secularism does not mean 'equal treatment of all religions''.It does not nean that minorities deserce special preference on account of their status.

    Secularism only means that a government cannot take religion into account while framing its policy.It means that a governnent treats its citizens as cituzens alone,and treats all cituzens equally.

    The ongoing decades long effort at state-sponsored repression of hinduism by the congress party us not secularism.Providing reservations to minorities is nit secularism.Allowing Muslims to live by their own separate laws based on sharia,as India does, us nit secularism. In fact,all of these are manifestly un-secular acts.

    Please check the dictionary definition of secularism.A person cannot by definition be secular.

    Please do not hide behind kabir and madhwacharya.Kabir was not a hindu and I am not a follower of madhwacharya,though I have the highest respect for him.I had asked you a few basic questions on your beleif that allah is vishnu on another thread,which you could not answer.Do not hold illogical beleifs if you are incapable of defending them.

    AARGHHH!!!!!
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

  3. #13
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    Re: Secular India

    Namaste,

    In the past everyone has blamed the Xitians and muslims for the decline of Hinduism. From now on, its decline will be due to the ignorance of its simple minded adherents. We will crash and burn, and will have no one else to blame but ourselves.

    Pranam.

  4. #14
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    Re: Secular India

    A very simple argument.If allah=brahman,then it logically follows that tge abrahamic scrptures come from brahman.If so,why do those scriptures constantly portray allah/yahweh flying into a sensless rage when all hindus agree that brahman is sad-chid-ananda
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

  5. #15
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    Re: Secular India

    Quote Originally Posted by Omkara View Post
    A very simple argument.If allah=brahman,then it logically follows that tge abrahamic scrptures come from brahman.If so,why do those scriptures constantly portray allah/yahweh flying into a sensless rage when all hindus agree that brahman is sad-chid-ananda
    Namaste

    Please note first that I am not in any way defending Islam, or supporting the notion that the Abrahamic god is somehow the same as Brahman, however:

    Our scriptures also depict Bhagavan going into a divine rage when confronting demons.

  6. #16
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    Re: Secular India

    Yes,but bhagavan does not condemn us and all our descendents to eternal damnation if we disobey him by mistake.Thus,the term I used was 'senseless rage'.

    Btw,Aspirant if allah exists,so does satan.Do you beleive that too?Is it compatible with hinduism?
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

  7. #17
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    Re: Secular India

    Namaste,
    Our scriptures also depict Bhagavan going into a divine rage when confronting demons.
    Abrahamic gods going into a divine rage at anyone not accepting him = Bhagwan going into a rage at the demons????

    Like I said, we don't need outsiders to destroy us as long as we have high quality thinkers of our own doing it to us. Time to change my religion, I should convert to Islam and stop this senseless bloodshed. After all our Bhagwan is also baaaaaaaad.......

    Pranam.

  8. #18
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    Re: Secular India

    Quote Originally Posted by Omkara View Post
    One must not begin a post with aargh.Nevertheless.....
    AARGHHH!!!!!!
    It is idiotic to say that there is sone such thing as a secular person or a secular country for that matter.
    Secularism means the non-interference of the state in religious affairs and vice versa.

    The meaning of secularism begins and ends there.A person cannot be secular.Secularism does not mean 'equal treatment of all religions''.It does not nean that minorities deserce special preference on account of their status.

    Secularism only means that a government cannot take religion into account while framing its policy.It means that a governnent treats its citizens as cituzens alone,and treats all cituzens equally.

    The ongoing decades long effort at state-sponsored repression of hinduism by the congress party us not secularism.Providing reservations to minorities is nit secularism.Allowing Muslims to live by their own separate laws based on sharia,as India does, us nit secularism. In fact,all of these are manifestly un-secular acts.

    Please check the dictionary definition of secularism.A person cannot by definition be secular.



    AARGHHH!!!!!
    Vanakkam,

    Just to say that what you say about secularism is totally true ! And even if I'm not Indian, of what I see from politics and events in India, this is not secularism they are doing. This is weakness.

    The same weakness happened in my country, when the politics where disturbed because muslim women wanted to wear burka in their everyday life, at work and at school for exemple. The politics, supposed to be secular (so, fair regarding ALL the citizen and the law regarding of their religion) had a heated debate about allowing muslim women to do that. (even considering problems regarding vision when driving, identity theft/control when wearing a burka...)

    When I went to Tunisia years ago and talked about this to a muslim local, he was stunned ! Even in his country the womens where not allowed to wear burka and they never complained, manifested anger in the streets and violence for that !

    That what made me thinking "waow, the politics are supposed to be fair to everyone regardless their religion (secularism) but they are weak if anyone from a minority is pointing a finger".

    We pretty much ignore when christians make useless noise, but when it comes to muslims, well...Burka, poligamy, everything become a hot political problem to everyone.

    The truth is nobody care that it's written in the Kuran that you can live with many wifes, a country when it's forbidden won't allow you. A secularist country when it's forbidden won't allow you, and still won't allow you even if you are a muslim and claim that you are shocked and that you will burn cars.
    It won't allow you even if you are an orthodox christian manifesting your anger in the street and curse every politician and everyone not thinking like you to eternal hell.

    Well that make sense in my opinion Oo

    Even with that we still keep our cultural background alive...Secularism in it's real sense is not a treat, when it's misinterpreted by stupid people and politicians, it become a distorded idiotic weapon and create bad situations...I don't want this for India, this country deserve so much better than chaos...

    I'll keep in touch with the news, I hope everything will go well.


    Aum Namah Shivaya
    ~Aum Namah Shivaya~

  9. #19
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    Re: Secular India

    ...And this is where I have misgivings about this focus on Abrahamic nonsense; as important as it is to be vigilant of threats to the continuation of the dharma, which is already so badly damaged by both external action and internal corrosion, this sort of things leads to Hindus attacking other Hindus over petty misunderstandings.

    We pray to the same God, our Selves are the same Self, we say Namaste to eachother, hopefully with meaning, and yet... this.

    To specifically address your comment Believer:

    Abrahamic gods going into a divine rage at anyone not accepting him = Bhagwan going into a rage at the demons????
    I was specifically not equating the two. I had said so in my disclaimer. Perhaps this was not read?

    My point was that Brahman does not always manifest as calmness. Rage and emotionality are part of the mix as well. I was merely pointing this out, that is all.

    As Omkara has taken care to explain his qualification of "senseless" I see that my comment was unnecessary - perhaps your attack might also be so?
    Last edited by Shuddhasattva; 16 August 2012 at 01:50 AM.

  10. #20
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    Re: Secular India

    Quote Originally Posted by Shuddhasattva View Post
    Our scriptures also depict Bhagavan going into a divine rage when confronting demons.
    Isin't this pretty irrelevant to the topic at hand? The OP shows rage of a bunch of dimwitted religious zealots. Bhagvan or even Allah are no where at the scene of the crime.

    But to the OP, secularism as defined in dictionary and practiced in some parts of the west won't have problem in condemning this. That's why it want's to put religion out of political business.

    Indian secular's also will not have any problem with overlooking & justifying this, since this [Islam and Islamic anti-national rage] is precisely indian-secularism in action.

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