Secular India

[wundermonk]

Indian secular's also will not have any problem with overlooking & justifying this, since this [Islam and Islamic anti-national rage] is precisely indian-secularism in action.

This is true.

What are the reasons Indian pseudo ''secular''ists so anti-national and anti-Hindu? Why can not they bring themselves to condemning non-Hindu acts of terror? Why the double standard? Why can not they bring themselves to calling out the bluff on the Adam/Eve story? Why do not they mock mercilessly Abrahamic religions? Is it only when the Abrahamic population in India grows to 51% of the country's population that they will start focusing on Abrahamic religions? Why are many Indian secularists pro-Palestine and anti-Israel? Being secularists, they should be tooth and nail against religion being the basis of nationhood. Which Indian secularist has called into question the very basis of the existence of ''Islamic'' countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, etc.? What are they doing to undo the creation of countries on the basis of religion? Why such deafening silence/inaction on the part of Indian ''secularists''? Why are Indian secularists silent on the Indian government's policy of not allowing non-Muslims from settling down in J&K? If these grievances are not valid, why are they invalid?

Will Indian secularists ever admit that there is a fundamental problem with Islam, and its theology?

Is it possible that they are funded by the Vatican/Mecca to destabilize Hinduism/Indians?

Is it possible that Indian ''secularists'' are secretly Abrahamic?

[Twilightdance]

I think the moral bankruptcy and resulting intellectual depravity is largely due to twisted education and moral lessons at home. A weak hindu civilization with no sense of nation just makes this moral bankruptcy very easy to get away with.

As for our muslim brothers, I have always argued that India is better than their fabled holy land of mecca. You have all the perks of sharia & more [keep 4 wives, grab at hindu girls whenever wish to do so, get special privileges jobs & education, tax hindus to sponsor their mecca pilgrimage - madrasa education...basically demand anything & get it by political blackmail]. Yet, you don't have to suffer under the strict rules of morality - you get to keep your arms after stealing as opposed to getting them chopped off, you are not stoned to death for adultery, women are not beheaded for dancing in presence of men etc etc. India is win-win for Muslims. Plus with no policy to check illegal immigration across borders, its not much of hard work too. Get in, get a ration card and enjoy the secularism of India - its better than Sharia at home, I bet ya.

[Shuddhasattva]

I hate to say it, but it seems to me mass deportation to Pakistan (as Bangladesh cannot possibly support more people) will become necessary some point.

[wundermonk]

I hate to say it, but it seems to me mass deportation to Pakistan (as Bangladesh cannot possibly support more people) will become necessary some point.

Yep. I agree.

I was travelling in a train once. In our compartment of 4 seats, there was a Mohammedan couple and another lady (who I later learned was also Mohammedan). This lady gets a call on the phone and then she says (paraphrasing): "Yes. I feel safe. Besides me, there is another Mohammedan couple in this compartment.''

I felt like saying - ''Listen here Muslimah. Let me buy you a one way ticket to Paki Land. You can live as safely as you wish with fellow Mohammedans in the land that was carved out of my country for the likes of you. Then you guys can slaughter one another trying to figure out which one sect of the 73 sects are going to be screwing virgins in heaven while the other 72 rot in hell for eternity.''

[Shuddhasattva]

The sticky issue will be determining who to deport. There are some Indian Muslims I have met who are secular.

"Secular Hindu" might be a bad thing, especially as the secularism is dishonestly promoted for ulterior motives in India, but in my book "Secular Muslim" is a good thing.

These people had little actual knowledge of Islam, maybe some little practice of it - simple praying and the like, and thus were not radicalized - actual knowledge/practice of Islam is inherently radicalizing.

It would be a shame to deport these people from India, who identify far more with India and Indian culture than Islam, and are positive contributors.

Perhaps, perhaps interfaith dialogue between real (lol) spiritual leaders can help calm things and help Muslims to truly live in harmony with the rest of the society - this would be the best solution, but I am doubtful.

[wundermonk]

but in my book "Secular Muslim" is a good thing. These people had little actual knowledge of Islam, maybe some little practice of it - simple praying and the like, and thus were not radicalized - actual knowledge/practice of Islam is inherently radicalizing.

Agreed on the 2nd sentence.

In the first sentence - term "secular Muslim'' is an empty term with no referrent. Secularism requires separation of mosque and state. A Muslim- being an adherent of Islam - considers the mosque itself to be the state.

Islam is incompatible with multiculturalism, democracy and secularism. Either Islam survives or India survives. We cannot have both.

[Shuddhasattva]

I agree with you that Islam itself is incompatible with secularism, but these people are not really Islamic. They're "cultural Muslims." Come from Muslim families, but well-integrated into general society, generally well educated, working good jobs, with Hindu friends, etc.

Should they be deported?

[Twilightdance]

but in my book "Secular Muslim" is a good thing.

Talking about secular muslims, the Khurshid Khan episode which has been in the news of the India is quite curious. Maybe media reports this to demonstrate how good muslims can be, but ironically demonstrate how bad Islam is - since it is one Khurshid Khan vs entire Pakistan.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/w...w/15468793.cms

[wundermonk]

I agree with you that Islam itself is incompatible with secularism, but these people are not really Islamic. They're "cultural Muslims." Come from Muslim families, but well-integrated into general society, generally well educated, working good jobs, with Hindu friends, etc.

Should they be deported?

Such people, if they exist, should definitely not be deported. But I doubt if they exist.

I personally feel this whole thing about, ''majority of Muslims are silent and peaceful. It is only the few radicalized Mohammedans who are the bad apples.'' to be bunkum. If a few people are silent and their voices are never heard, how does one even go about claiming they exist, let alone they are in a majority! It is like saying - the square circle is pink.

The burden of proving that such people exist is on themselves. They should come out of hiding and make their voices heard. They should vehemently oppose the nationhood of Pakistan/Bangladesh and say that the creation of Pakistan/Bangladesh was a blot on humanity's history and work actively towards undoing partition. They should help rebuild every temple that was destroyed by invading Mohammedans and invoke Allah's curse on the Mughals.

[Twilightdance]

Should they be deported?

No, if they are like Khurshid Khan. But the type of Muslim you are talking about mostly enjoy and relish the benefits of living in a secular state, but does nothing so much to even condemn or disown radicalism of Islam. Such secular muslims will quickly switch sides and turn the hindu neighbor to the taliban when the moment comes.

In other words if you value real secularism, you must demonstrate that you value it - not just enjoy its benefit as long as you can.One will not be loosing anything by deporting such muslims - which will be the 99% of the secular muslims you talk about.

Truely secular muslim who have the courage to rise up against the fundamentalism of their religion have been rare and unfortunately have been chastised as fundamentalists, hate mongers etc. I can't think of one such individual in India. There have been few Arab defectors from Islam to the west, but society at large have disowned them as hate mongers.