The Green Rama and The Blue Rama

[philosoraptor]

Well, at the risk of sounding like a contrarian, and perhaps being misjudged as someone who finds fault with non-traditional depictions of Rama's transcendental form, I would say that it does matter, in as much as Rama's beautiful divya-mangala-svarupa is the object of meditation for devotees, and they would want to know the real form of Rama to be meditated on. Indeed, devotees tend to be quite discerning on matters such as these, while impersonalists tend to argue that any form or forms are imaginary mental depictions and thus do not matter.

[ShivaFan]

Namaste Philosopheraptor

I certainly hope you are not thinking I am an impersonalist, if that is the impression I gave it is not my opinion or experience. All I mean by "it really doesn't matter" is if you wish to meditate and have communion with Ram as Blue then that is wonderful, I have communion as Green since that was what I was taught by those who are much more advanced in spiritual communion with Devas and Devi than I, that is the tradition I must follow. If I am mistaken, even if Ram does not forgive me, I know He "forgives" e.g. Loves those other more advanced devotees and it won't matter what anyone or any other human says otherwise it won't change my experiences regarding their truthful communion with such Divine nature and their Bhakti.

But, it seems also logical to me that Ram can, and has, appeared to Saints in other forms from which you may not be familiar with. For example, Kali Ma has appeared before those who I love in the form of a young girl. History does not stop when Rama came to "the last chapter" in the Holy Ramayana. Devas and Devi come, even right now, and tomorrow. Whatever you are, personalist or impersonalist, in one way the Brahman is almost like a golden sheath which the energy of Bhakti can travel across. And in regards to impersonalists, I have nothing against them - it is like the approach to the rose garden. Before I even see the rose tree, I smell the rose. It may be impersonal, but I still say it is the rose in my mind. And when I see the rose tree, I still say it is the rose. And when I hold one rose of the tree (which I never pick) I still say it is the rose. And then what do I do next? I smell deeply into that rose. And when I smell that fragrance deeply, I say "ah Yes! the Rose!" ...

And if the stem of that one rose pricks my finger and blood comes out, I think that it is still the rose.

Which is the rose? Sometimes when I smell deeply that rose, I may even forget what color is that rose.

Om Namah Sivaya

[philosoraptor]

Those are nice thoughts, but I personally prefer to know from shAstra how He looks, what He wants, how He appears before us, etc rather than relying on intuition or assumptions about His preferences.

regards,

[ShivaFan]

Namaste Philosoraptor

I think you are correct on that. By the way, on second thought my use of the words "golden sheath" was probably a mistake in the use of words. I rely on books such as by Jayaram V regarding understanding Brahman.

Om Namah Sivaya

[philosoraptor]

Who is Jayaram V? I only know of an ancient Indian king by that name.

[ShivaFan]

Namaste Philosoraptor

Jayaram V is a famous savant and scholar from India, popular with young Hindus (I am not young). He authored Introduction to Hinduism, and many other famous Vedic Hindu commentaries.

He would laugh at my golden sheath comment. Next to a certain Saiva Guru, I admire him greatly.

Om Namah Sivaya

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

Actually, I should clarify – reading a book such as “Brahman” by Jayaram V is not the same as reading the Ramayana for example. So I can understand criticism when I read commentaries and such, which of course are themselves open to criticism. So I don’t want to be taken in the wrong way by bringing up the subject.

Some people say Jayaram V is a Hindu reformer.

Of course, we all know that Hinduism as it is, Sanatana Dharma, is eternal, as it is we know it is not something to be taken in form and put into a new form (“reform”).

But we do know, that Devas and Devi come in many forms. The Devatas can, and constantly, at least to the vision of the human eye, appear in many rupas or forms, they sometimes even reform themselves right before the vision of a Saint or Yogi, or Mystic or devotee and so on – one minute being an elderly renounced ascetic and the next being Surya Himself before one’s presence. Perhaps the former was only a “disguse” and the latter was aditya and true. Sometimes Lord Hanuman is in two places at once. Of course, these are not examples of “reform” as we might think of today, though it is an interesting consideration.

Hinduism has a history. Just as do the Devas and Devi. And as a Saiva, I am told there are cycles to time, and even yugas which cycle through and play, it is almost like music perhaps, I do not know. I was told one day, I might merge with Shiva. That may happen, right now I am in no rush.

But I think, even though Hinduism and the Devas and Devi have a history, and many unimaginable things to come even in the future, Sanatana Dharma is not something to “reform” by humans, only by Itself. So in that regard, if indeed Jayaram V is a Hindu “reformer”, there will be ample room for criticism. I am not a Hindu reformer, I am just an aspirant. Hinduism as it is, the Bhagavad Gita as it is, the Ramayana as it is, Dharma as it is, is not something humans reform.

But I do admire Jayaram V a lot. Because of two books – his translation of the Bhagavad Gita, and his book “Brahman”. It doesn’t seem he is reforming anything in these books, but simply presenting as it is. As far as Hinduism being reformed, it may reform itself, and not us who reforms it, since it almost has a life of it’s own. It certainly feels that way when you go into a temple. It is as if almost everything is reforming itself, even my body. I was once a very young man. Now I am getting old. Not trying to sound smarty pants, that is one of my biggest problems and that is why I have been told so by others who are way more advanced than myself that I should not try to “create my own Brahman” nor “write my own Ramayana”. I have been told bluntly that my first rule is “do not disturb others”. So probably that is my bad nature which is obvious to others, and I need to listen. I think these two books by Jayaram V help also to make me listen. Because basically I just like a lot of action and adventure, which there is a lot of that in Hinduism. I am still on a level where everything is fun for me, never boring, lots of adventure, sort of like Indiana Jones maybe. Except I am slowing down a bit, I hope I don’t slow down too much. The best thing is to be with other devotees. There is always something happening then.

Om Namah Sivaya