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Thread: This has to stop D:

  1. #1
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    This has to stop D:

    Vanakkam everyone !

    Don't give me this look ! I had no other idea for the title of the topic, this is the first thing that crossed my mind resulting on seeing some people's post (NOT only on HDF, NO names)

    I have nothing against those people personally...But to be honest, I don't understand how they think and how some end up in HDF.

    I have seen a sudden rise on some hindu websites, "yoga" and "Sanatana dharma boards" (I say it like this because many of them are pretending to be hindu and are just a bunch of neo-something completely ignorants of the scriptures) of many people claiming they are "Tantra".

    Someone claiming this like this, makes me raise an eyebrow. "I am Tantra". First this simple claim show that apparently he/she don't understand the term Tantra, but if this person is a westerner like me I can understand. I am confused with new terms, okay.

    Then this person begin to talk about his "Tantra practice". And it gets worse. This is my exact face :

    http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs2/1131615_o.gif

    People thinking that "practicing Tantra" is making wild sex each day of the week because "this is spiritual, you see to create the universe Shiva wildly **** Sakti !" or masturbate thinking about how the Linga is a beautiful penis.

    This has to stop.

    Why do I care ? Seriously ? Because those people make a bad name of Sanatana Dharma and Hindu people, that's why.
    "Hello, I am a Saiva Bhakta !"
    "EWW YOU PENIS WORSHIPPER EWW EWW can you help me to get laid ?"

    I don't think neither born hindu, neither werterners practicing Sanatana Dharma need this kind of reputation spreading around, especially at the ears of some ignorants and intolerants people that will take a pleasure to make the news by insulting Hindu people and the religion.

    Tantra is not a sex religion. Tantra is not disrespecting ShivLing by only seeing a tool of pleasure in it. Tantra is not shaking yourself imagining disgusting things of the Gods.

    Tantra is scripture, Tantra is a path that needs initiation, hard sadhanas, pure will and devotion. And STUDY, like everything else.

    I don't know why those people choose this. Some seems to deliberatly ignore the scriptures, ignore the real study of Tantra, just to stay in this "religion of sex" thing. Are they unable to cast away the tremendious attachement to desire they created ? Why casting away scriptures and study and just sticking in the "look pal, I am a Tantra, you can't understand."
    "But did you rea..."
    "You can't understand, I am a Tantra"
    "But is being a Tantra for yo..."
    "Sex ! Sex ! Shiva banging sakti and stuff ! Sex !"

    How can you even discuss about anything with this attitude !

    I don't care about the sex life of someone, I juste care when they spread so much idiotic things under the label of Sanatana Dharma ! I care when they remain deaf to everything because they are so superior in their "practice of Tantra" (consisting of sex, sex, sex, masturbation, sex, insulting neo-symbolism of Shiva, sex...)

    Seriously. This has to stop.

    Sorry for the post, I just had to let it go...I love so much Mahadev and Devi, it pains me to see people putting so much dirty on their holy names ! And it pains me more to see Sanatana Dharma and Hindu people more and more associated with those practices that have absolutely NO spiritual benefits for ANYONE.

    Aum Namah Shivaya
    ~Aum Namah Shivaya~

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    Re: This has to stop D:

    Namaste McKitty,

    I can appreciate your frustration. While I have never had to deal personally with anyone claiming the lifestyle you describe, I have certainly heard of the type.

    I think a few things are happening here:

    #1. People like sex - but most people are raised to feel bad about it. So, some of these people are looking for a reason to "justify" enjoying sex. They think if they put a mystical label on sexual activity, it somehow puts it on a pedestal, worthy of turning into an entire lifestyle. Some people are insecure and need every aspect of their life to have some sort of rich, deep meaning. When sometimes, there is no meaning and that's okay.

    #2. I think these people's disregard for the scriptures comes from an active desire to remain ignorant. Knowledge would make things "too complicated''. They'd have to actually think about what they were doing and understand it, rather then just say, "Hey, I'm Tantra" and expect that to explain anything to anyone.

    This is actually one of the reasons why I have yet to claim allowed ''I am Hindu". I feel as though I have not understood enough of it to claim that. I wouldn't want to give a false impression of Hinduism if the life I am leading is clearly not one of a Hindu. No one is perfect of course, and it will be many lifetimes before I will know even half of what is necessary...but one needs to at least be aware of the wisdom/knowledge gap.

    It's good that we have this place to vent I hope you feel better!

    Peace!
    "God will not have his work made manifest by cowards."
    ~Ralph Waldo Emerson


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    Re: This has to stop D:

    Perhaps we could have given the fellow a warning and continued trying to explain to him instead of kicking him out.Don't know if we would have ever been successful in drilling sense into him.Another perspective-I think another major cause is that several people quit chrisrianity out of disillusionment and then go around looking for a faith with radically different beleifs and ethos.Many such people has begun to dislike the idea of systematic religion itself,and begin to pick and choose aspects of multiple faiths and throw tham together haphazardly and say-I am spitiual not religious.
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


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    Re: This has to stop D:

    Quote Originally Posted by Omkara View Post
    Many such people has begun to dislike the idea of systematic religion itself,and begin to pick and choose aspects of multiple faiths and throw them together haphazardly and say-I am spirtual not religious.
    This is a good point.

    I have a sister who, for a while told people, "I am not religious, but I'm spiritual".

    My thought has always been, "What does that even mean?" I have no way of comprehending how one can be connected to God but not connected to God. It smacks of confusion and indecision. It is fine to not know, but call it what it is. When someone asks you, "What do you believe?" And you don't know yet, just say "I don't know." There is no shame in not knowing, but saying, "Oh, I'm spiritual." doesn't mean anything. It answers nothing.
    "God will not have his work made manifest by cowards."
    ~Ralph Waldo Emerson


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    Re: This has to stop D:

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by McKitty View Post
    Seriously. This has to stop.
    How do you plan to do this ?

    praṇām

    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: This has to stop D:

    I was wondering about the same.


    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast



    How do you plan to do this ?

    praṇām
    satay

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    Re: This has to stop D:

    Quote Originally Posted by Satay View Post
    I was wondering about the same.
    Why stop it, insubstantial things should run out of fashion, hopefully. For anything to continue it needs a dedicated group, and narcissists can hardly be dedicated to anything other than themselves. Once tantra becomes less useful in indulging their narcissism they will move on to other things.

  8. #8
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    Re: This has to stop D:

    Vannakkam: The best you can do is not participate and point out to others, if that's possible, that it in no way represents any kind of traditional Hinduism. Many Hindus, including some here on HDF, do this when there is a possibility. There have been a few bannings over the years for this.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: This has to stop D:

    There is almost nothing we can do about this and I don't think it is going away either. People misappropriate elements from Hinduism and give their own spin on them. If you try to correct them, they won't listen. Part of it is because people think in this false division between the rationalistic scientific west versus the spiritual other worldly east where everything goes and nothing really matters. The east for most people is a place to escape reality.

    Part of it is also the lack of information. When a few centuries ago Indian spirituality became popular in the west, people only had few sources of knowledge. Right from the get-go they took what little information they had let their imagination run wild about the rest. This started with the transcendentalists and later the occultists, the psychoanalysts, the hippies, the new agers etc. These fantasies have become deeply ingrained in the western perspective on tantra and yoga. Self proclaimed experts are making serious dough from people's half baked interest in eastern spirituality. The real deal doesn't do that well on the market place. People specifically demand diluted nonsense and if they don't get it they won't be interested.

    People belief what they want to belief. Most westerners (and some modern Indians too) want to believe that tantra is about sense gratification, that yoga is not a religious practice, but an ancient form of psychology and that Jesus is an avatara and if you try to correct them, you are a Hindu fundamentalist.
    Last edited by Sahasranama; 01 September 2012 at 10:52 AM.

  10. #10
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    Re: This has to stop D:

    Vanakkam,

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post

    Part of it is also the lack of information.
    I think this is a key part of this phenomenon. Fortunately everything change !
    Yesterday when those kind of things became popular, there were very few information available about the subject !
    But today, with books and internet, it's easy not to fall into those thinkings...Or is it ?

    What I see is that there is not too many informative websites about Sanatana Dharma that appear on google when you search for something, they are well hidden but why ?
    There are also very few knowledgable Hindu and westerners that have the hability to take little time and teach others, but don't want to because of variety of personal reasons...
    ...But these people are the first to spit and complain when a westerner or a born western Hindu say or do something innapropriate and this make the news, and everything blames it on the stupidity of the western world, on how Dharma is insulted, on how Sanatana Dharma is dying because of this, of that...

    I find this...Sad. Because among those people, there are some that might need this necessary education. Some did find interest in Sanatana Dharma, in Tantra, and only find distorded informations from 40 years ago ! Just search for the ShivLing, how many times I saw something similar as "lol penis" even in supposed informative hindu websites !

    I agree a part of them are like TwilightDance said, narcissists, and there's no need to try to knock any sense to them because it would be useless.
    But even if it's only a fashion, the fact that those kind of people spread wide s**t about Sanatana Dharma and Tantra in internet, in the news, in books is going to harm born hindu and practicing westerners. And then more news, and more complainings, and more hate....

    There's not enough books, there's not enough websites, there's not enough forums like HDF. There's not enough Hindu people and knowledgable westerner in this world to actually talk about Sanatana Dharma, to introduce it once and for all to this portion of misguided people, should they be Hindu or westerner.

    Unfortunately I am neither born in India, neither a knowledgable westerner, especially in Tantra. But I often try my best to guide people to good Sanatana Dharma ressources and answer their clichs. I am even thinking about making a little more, like a devotionnal website with informations and links to scriptures.
    This may not help the 10000 idiots, but if at last it can interest and convince 2, I would be happy. Because that will be 2 more people speaking about Sanatana Dharma without deforming it and make it disgusting to the western public, and it would maybe make them talk in internet or in the news good about hindu people and Sanatana Dharma ?

    Western does not hate Hindu or Sanatana Dharma, a great part of western is misinformed, and nobody is doing anything besides complaining about it...

    The ocean was made with small drops ! And we have to think we are all those small drops


    Aum Namah Shivaya
    ~Aum Namah Shivaya~

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