This has to stop D:

[MahaHrada]

Even before Rajneesh there was interest in tantrik sex from western occultist psychopaths like Aleister Crowley. Rajneesh was just another psychopath who used Tantra for his personal gain.

Whether one considers Rajneesh (or Aleister Crowley ) as enlightened Masters or Psychopaths, as authentic or nonauthentic has precious little to do with their influence or non-influence, on Neo-tantra which is what i am concernend with in this posting. I am an eye witness of the rise of the Rajneesh Movement and before he became an important Guru in India and the West one could not find a trace of sexual oriented tantra in the West.

I did not express any feelings of disgust, the problem I expressed here was also not about picking and choosing, but with making stuff up. In the west this has started with Aleister Crowley who knew very little of Tantra and started his cult based on the misinformation he obtained from Victorian scholars about Hindu Tantra. What Mahahrada was saying is that all misinformation is spread from Indian gurus alone and this is not a honest representation of facts.

Aleister Crowley never called himself a tantric and his erotic mysticism was based on the teachings of the "Ordo Templi Orienties" a masonic order whose lineage was traced back to the Order of the Knights Templar and he was inspired by the teachings of the "Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica" (gnostic catholic church) founded by french occultists going back to christian heretics called "spermo gnostics." But later, after his demise, there have been connections between disciples of Crowley like the late Head of the typhonian O.T.O and others to Hindu tantrics.

I did not say that all misinformation spread from indian gurus alone, i said all what was called misinformation in this thread goes back to Hindu teachers.

I mention this because it it is not up to me to decide whether Osho Rajneesh, Vivekananda, Ramakrishna, Shivananda, Satya Sai Baba, Krishnamurti, Aurobindo, Nisargadatta, Papaji, Yogananda, Amma, Ramana Maharishi etc. spread misinformation or truth and it is irrelevant whe all i want to express is that these teachings are no inventions of westerners but these teachings and also the so called "Godman" like Satya Sai Baba are a part of modern Hinduism and not a product of the west, whether you like it or not is a different question.

Clearly these teachings of neo-tantra, universalism, sociological and psychological interpretations of Hinduism are teachings of Hindu Gurus, and it is only natural that the opinions of Gurus are repeated by their followers.

Traditional Tantra and traditional Hinduism by its nature is rarely if at all taught to Westerners, so how can a sane person expect from an average western spiritualist to have knowledge of a subject even an average indian born hindu has no access to?

The precursor of universalism .....

....may still exist even today and may include C.G Jung or Annie Besant or Madame Blavatsky but famous Hindus like Ramakrishna and Vivekananda and Mahatma Gandhi or Dayananda Sarasvati from Arya samaj certainly had a much greater influence besides that Hindu Universalism even predates Colonialism and include teachers like Madhvacharya who also held the opinion that his dvaita Vedanta was closer related to Islam then to advaita and buddhism and acted accordingly. Also Nath Panth Yogis were often allied with the Sufis of the Chistiya silsila and tantric Buddhists, universalism is not a western invention.