Visnukandharapatana (Name of Shiva)

[ShivaFan]

Namaste Omkara

Thank you Omkara. Actually, I am probably an unorthodox Saiva then. There are some scripture which I have confusion and hurt feelings in my soul about, sometimes I agree with you that probably they have verses which were added later due to some societal stress or other. But I do believe Ram was half Deva and half Humanity. I know that sounds like a contridiction. But I also believe in being so, Rama is also 100 percent Deva and 100 percent Humanity at the sametime.

I also believe God can be in two places at the same time.

I also believe in vimanas. Both as flying machines such as owned by Ravan, and as castles and special forms of mystic doors to Temples not seen by the imperfect human eye.

So I guess I am sort of a "rascal Saiva".

Let me ask, do you think Saivas believe in Muruga and Valli?

Om Namah Sivaya

[Viraja]

Namaste ShivaFanji,

I hope to be of great humility and adhering to good taste and norm in countering something perceived as contradictory and addressing it here, I apologize in advance if my message is not perceived to be of good taste.

You had expressed in my thread 'Vaishnavism with Shaivism' that some Vaishnavites in this forum are putting down on Lord Shiva without scriptural evidence. I, for one, do not remember doing anything of the sort to beloved Lord Shiva. I had elsewhere called him 'Parameshwara', 'one who does not pray to anyone else and therefore not to portray him in praying gesture' and so forth. *If you can show me a place where I have been disrespectful of Lord Shiva, I am ready to extend a 1000 apologies.

(You had expressed in the above thread that 'there are people who put down on Lord Shiva without scriptural evidence, and *talk like Pope*. When I asked you that it is not me, you had no reply for me). The following is what you had written in the other thread:

I am so glad you posted your thoughts on this. And I know you are not saying what I am respectfully am about to say, though I also agree with you. And to tell the truth, even though nothing much can get me to isolate myself from from the association with devotees (whether in person which is intregal for me, or via new technologies), it has been frankly annoying and sometimes sad for me as a Saiva to read the attempts to put down my Lord Mahadeva and the comparisons made to define Him in lower terms instead of simply glorifying one's own Lord or devotion. I know this is not what some try to, and I know there is a difference between a private communion between student and teacher where more things are said verse a public forum (like this), but some even if a minority do engage in this which is sad and in almost every case it comes from those who actually have zero authority to speak or claim to quote anything of authority but sure think they are a Pope if you will. I suppose some few still will, I am not saying to silence anyone, go ahead. They never change anyone as does a Guru or a devotee who wants to set an example. They have nothing on me, will never change me, and never will have anything over me for that matter. I just want to hear the glories, and there are plenty of others who share such wonders.

Luckily they are very, very small in number, but sometimes what they project even if a tiny minority in this huge and diverse family we call Hinduism sounds out louder since usually the scratch of finger nails on a chalk board gets all the attention. Not saying this thread is an example of it, but I have and will continue to support my Vaishnav or ISKCON or Shakta companions on this world even though I am a Saiva, and others as I always do with love for all devotees and enjoy hearing the glories of the Devas and Devi. Let me hear that, as well as the glory of the Brahman, and of couse Mother Devi Whom I love so much, of all the Mahayogis, mahatmas and saints, mystics and Munis, jai Hinduswara. Jai Shiva, Brahma, Vishnu, Indra, Surya, Devi. Not trying to sound like a soft hearted love child - anyone who knows me, they know I am not and I can be as mean as a wasp if I don't get my fun, but most of the time I have too much fun to always be a soap opera like from ZeeTV. Who cares what makes me, frankly I don't even care, I just like my life. Just saying, be nice to my Lord, that's all I am thinking.

But, honestly, I find the following very hurtful of my sentiments and bhakti towards Sri Vishnu, which is your question in this thread:

In the Linga Purana, which lists the 1008 names of Siva, one of names of Shiva is Visnukandharapatana (Vishnukandharapatana) which is translated as "One who struck Down the Head of Vishnu" or "The One who Felled the Neck of Vishnu". It is the 835th Name.

I am curious to fully understand this Name. What is the meaning and history? Did Shiva hit the Head of Vishnu?

As a SriVaishnava, how hurtful it is to imagine/visualize Sri Vishnu's head being 'struck down', 'cut off'?

If it were for Srimad Ramanuja, he would have lost his life upon hearing it...

[Omkara]

As a SriVaishnava, how hurtful it is to imagine/visualize Sri Vishnu's head being 'struck down', 'cut off'?

If it were for Srimad Ramanuja, he would have lost his life upon hearing it...

Actually, there is an incident mentioned in several shrutis where Lord Vishnu is indeed beheaded.

Eg. Satapatha Brahmana 14.1.1

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbr/sbe44/sbe44117.htm

[ShivaFan]

Namaste Aspirant

Perhaps I confused things, my reply was to JaiMataDi and not to yourself in the post you quoted. I was noting how I agree with her sentiments. I am not a Universalists, that is for sure, I am a Saiva. Though I do have a nickname, Rasgoulla as in Rascal. But there is a little "nice" in Rasgoulla as well. Looks like I didn't answer your question back in September when I was chanting the 1008 names of Shiva. I would walk around a little lake, sorry if I forgot to respond.

But as I quote in my own post here, the thought was as I was saying, " One of my paths is to love in unity Vaishnava and Shakta devotees as part of Dharma". In other words, Hinduism is a Unity, not a division as some Xtians and some Western money maker tricksters try to claim.

I rely on the vast Vedic and Life process experiences of Omkara and Eastern Mind, and of course devotees as yourself who add those insights or sugar on the chapati.

One day, if I talk to Hanuman, I will be versed enough to speak in Sanskrit and Tamil. He is versed in many languages, I am not. So words are given many translations. I wonder how many sages and Gurus of yore were fluent in English? I hope I am not the cause of any falling over dead with my typing! (just kidding! Actually with the many typos I make, my gosh... but I have of habit of using my cell phone as in right now to type and not a PC or Mac).

Jai Shree Rama, Jai Mother Sita, and the Beautiful Hanumanji!

Om Namah Sivaya

[Viraja]

Thank you, ShivaFanji, I stand clarified. You are a very good natured and helpful person, I am well aware of that. I did not intend to insult you by my questioning.

Omkar! I guess you are a little-insensitive to Vaishnavites! I wouldn't relate the incident where Shiva cut-off the 5th head of Brahma, with Brahmadev worshippers around! Besides, Sri Vishnu's swabhaava (nature) is one of 'pleasantness', he is beyond Maya, there are instances such as when he took Matsya/Kurma avataras, that at the end of the incarnation, owing to its massiveness, Vishnu couldn't return to his original self, and Shiva cut-off Vishnu's head - but the nature of this, is one of 'helping' not 'controlling the ahamkara of Vishnu'. I will go through the link you had given, thank you!

[Viraja]

I maybe a little annoying to you, ShivaFanji. I just wanted to convey that I felt little 'obligated' as a Vaishnava to address the 'Vishnukandarapatana' issue here... it was a compelling urge I couldn't dismiss. I hope not to have broken the nice and harmonious rapport with you, you are one of the very few in HDF that have vast knowledge and illumines the forum with glimpses of the same!

Warm regards,

Aspirant

[Sri Vaishnava]

Actually, there is an incident mentioned in several shrutis where Lord Vishnu is indeed beheaded.

Eg. Satapatha Brahmana 14.1.1

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbr/sbe44/sbe44117.htm

Not to intrude in what is obviously a shaiva and jalpa thread, but that section has been commentated upon my tradition's mahAvidwans of the past.

While that link is a bad translation in my opinion, it must be clear that the beheading there is only metaphorical and not literal. It is closely connected to and an explanation of the statement "yajnO vai vishnu" and shows that Vishnu is Yajneswara, the sacrifice, the fruit of sacrifice and the means to perform the sacrifice as well.

Before the supposed beheading, it says that Vishnu is the best of the gods. And after that supposed beheading, it shows that the devas derive strength from the pressings/sap, etc.

There is also a link with the purusha suktam. And just as we do not take it literally that the Purusha was sacrificed or that the 4 castes literally sprung out of his limbs as per the Purusha Suktam (a metaphor for bhagavan's upAyatvam and the functions of society respectively - brahmins = knowledge/head, kshatriyas = valor/shoulders, vaishyas = economists/thighs/support, shudras = support all 3 by their services to society/feet), we do not take this literally as well.

Lastly, even if it is taken literally, it doesn't change anything. Its part of his leela, just as his body was cremated, him fleeing from the battlefield as though afraid, or that he lamented over Sita's disappearance as if ignorant, etc. All part of his incredible gunam of sousilyam. And even literally, one has to accept that his head became the sun, his body nourished the devas, etc.

EDIT: My friend, the author of the narayanastra blog, contributed some further information regarding this issue. I am pasting the email I got from him:

I saw your comment on the HDF today about the supposed beheading of Vishnu. Actually, Sayana's commentary is in a sense that the yajamAna called 'Vishnu' because that he pervades the yajna prayoga. He also provides another meaning, that the yajamAna is called 'Vishnu' out of courtesy (aupacArikam) in the sense that the entire jagat is said to be Vishnu.

Actually Rudra is the one who got beheaded, as per the sarva-shAka-pratyaya-nyAya.

Note, Sayana is not of the sri vaishnava tradition, but even this view is acceptable to us. So as far as Vaidika traditions are concerned, this anecdote is explained in a very satisfactory manner.

[philosoraptor]

I thank Sri Vaishnava for posting this as it confirms my impression also. When Omkar first showed this to me, I also got the impression that it was to be understood in the same sense as puruSha-sukta, and not as an attempt to describe Vishnu as a mortal being.