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Thread: Stages Leading to the Appearance of divine love

  1. #31
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    Re: Stages Leading to the Appearance of divine love

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by anadi View Post
    (1) Shraddha – transcendental faith
    Forgive my ignorance, but I am still at a loss on how śraddha becomes the word/definition you offer as transcendental faith.

    śraddha is defined as having faith , believing in , trusting , faithful , having confidence. We too can spell it in the neuter gender as śraddhā. Yet I cannot get to viśvottīrṇa - transcendental, as you are offering in śraddha . Can you walk me through the steps ?

    iti śivaṁ
    • viśvottīrṇa = viśva +uttīrṇa
      • viśva = all-pervading or all-containing , omnipresent applied to viṣṇu or kṛṣṇa
      • uttīrṇa = crossed , traversed, rescued , liberated
      • Hence He (viṣṇu or kṛṣṇa ) that is beyond; transcendental
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #32
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    Re: Stages Leading to the Appearance of divine love

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari o
    namast

    Forgive my ignorance, but I am still at a loss on how śraddha becomes the word/definition you offer as transcendental faith.

    śraddha is defined as having faith , believing in , trusting , faithful , having confidence. We too can spell it in the neuter gender as śraddhā. Yet I cannot get to viśvottīrṇa - transcendental, as you are offering in śraddha . Can you walk me through the steps ?

    iti śivaṁ
    • viśvottīrṇa = viśva +uttīrṇa
      • viśva = all-pervading or all-containing , omnipresent applied to viṣṇu or kṛṣṇa
      • uttīrṇa = crossed , traversed, rescued , liberated
      • Hence He (viṣṇu or kṛṣṇa ) that is beyond; transcendental


    danadavat,

    from a vaishnava point of view, there may be worldy faith or transcendental faith.
    In his presenting the stages leading to the appearance of love, when rerferring to shraddha, Rupa means transcendental faith and not the faith in material objects.
    Generally vaishnavas taking about shraddha they mean the transcendental faith.
    That is why, when translating vaishnava literature generally shraddha is meant to be the transcendental faith; one should also take into consideration the context.
    tadetadAtAravilochanasri / sambhAvitASeza vinamragarvam
    muhur murArer madhurAdharoztham / mukhAmbujam chumbati mAnasam me

    kRSNa karNamRtam 85

  3. #33
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    Re: Stages Leading to the Appearance of divine love

    Adau duSTa guru prAptih / pUtanA stanya sAyini
    VAtyA rUpa kutarkas tu / tRNAvarta itIritaH

    Sri kRSNa saMhitA 8.14

    Persons who are on the meditational path of attachment (ragAnuga) should avoid the first obstacle, accepting a bogus guru,
    by discussing PutanA’s arrival in Vraja as a bogus nurse.

    There are two types of gurus- antaraNga, or internal, and bahiraNga, or external.

    The living entity who is situated in samadhi is his own antaraNga guru. SB. 11.7.20

    One who accepts argument as his guru and who learns the process of worship from such a guru is said to have accepted the shelter of a bogus guru.
    When argument poses as nourishment for the living entities’ constitutional duties, this may be compared with PutanA’s falsely posing as a nurse…

    The external guru is he from the science of worship is learned.

    One who knows the proper path of attachment - raganuga marga -
    and who instructs his disciples according to their qualification is a sad guru, or eternal guru.

    One who does not know the path of attachment yet instructs others in this path
    or who knows that path but instructs his disciples without considering their qualification
    is a bogus guru and must be given up.
    tadetadAtAravilochanasri / sambhAvitASeza vinamragarvam
    muhur murArer madhurAdharoztham / mukhAmbujam chumbati mAnasam me

    kRSNa karNamRtam 85

  4. #34
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    Re: Stages Leading to the Appearance of divine love

    Stages Leading to the Appearance of divine love

    Sri-guru-pada-ashraya - Taking shelter at the lotus feet of Guru


    In Hari-bhakti-vilāsa (4.360) it is stated:

    harau ruşţe gurus trātā gurau ruşţe na kaścana
    tasmāt sarva-prayatnena gurum eva prasādayet


    Even if a person incurs the displeasure of the Lord, the spiritual master may still give him protection,
    but if the spiritual master is displeased, there is no one to give him protection.
    Therefore one should please Şri Gurudeva by all endeavours.

    gaura premanande
    tadetadAtAravilochanasri / sambhAvitASeza vinamragarvam
    muhur murArer madhurAdharoztham / mukhAmbujam chumbati mAnasam me

    kRSNa karNamRtam 85

  5. #35

    Re: Stages Leading to the Appearance of divine love

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast�


    Forgive my ignorance, but I am still at a loss on how śraddha becomes the word/definition you offer as transcendental faith.

    śraddha is defined as having faith , believing in , trusting , faithful , having confidence. We too can spell it in the neuter gender as śraddhā. Yet I cannot get to viśvottīrṇa� - transcendental, as you are offering in śraddha . Can you walk me through the steps ?

    iti śivaṁ
    • viśvottīrṇa = viśva +uttīrṇa
      • viśva = all-pervading or all-containing , omnipresent applied to viṣṇu or kṛṣṇa
      • uttīrṇa = crossed , traversed, rescued , liberated
      • Hence He (viṣṇu or kṛṣṇa ) that is beyond; transcendental

    Namaste,

    Faith works on many levels and I have concluded that there are two levels of faith, one is precursory or beginning levels of faith which is attached to a belief mixed with some trust and logic, like the ordinary religious level or within the dharma traditions executing the gradual path without any realization but with some confidence or trust that the process will work.

    Religious faith is second hand and based on thought and belief and some experience, but this faith can be weak, someone may prove a superior logic, Atheism using the empirical scientific method, then that faith is soon gone as its been replaced by a new idea.

    Śraddhā within the gradual path is conviction that by applying the process results will come, it also uses analytical faculty of the mind and senses for discernment. Then there is repetition of that gradual process until there is breakthrough, that type of faith can be tested on all levels but if the gradual process is organised in the correct way the waves of tests can be managed.

    Transcendent Śraddhā. I am not sure if there is an exact term to describe a transcendent faith, although its there and comes in postgraduate or sudden realization when prajna or intermediate states have been experienced and one gets direct percpetion/knowledge/experience. One knows then that which is taught in the gradual sadhanas~practices exists as a reality and is an extension or expansion of Prajñā~wisdom direct from Absolute. This then becomes part of ones natural dhyana or meditation, and one then with Śraddhā ~ turning ones attention to the source( transcendent source) in all circumstances and has inherent belief and faith which cannot be shaken via realization that turning ones attention to the Atma which transcends normal logic, belief and religious faith and all the practices is the true refuge and only refuge, the only real refuge.

    Śraddhā then becomes part of the yoga process, the linking the union with Brahman, part of the surrender to that which is more subtle than the normal mind and sense perceptions can detect.

    Gradual Śraddhā purva mimamsa

    Transcendent Śraddhā Uttara Mimamsa ?
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 28 August 2018 at 09:09 AM.

  6. #36
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    Re: Stages Leading to the Appearance of divine love

    Stages Leading to the Appearance of divine love
    The third stage - bhajana-kriya

    Sri-guru-pada-ashraya - Taking shelter at the lotus feet of Guru III

    Srila Jiva Gosvami examines guru tattva in Bhakti Sandarbha.

    He says that from the point of view of attchemnts, there are two kinds of gurus

    SarAga – with material attachments – their influence is not enduring
    NirAga – without material attachments .

    A guru who is

    - parama bhagavata bhakta (topmost devotee)
    - adept in relishing bhakti rasa
    - evoking spiritual emotions in others
    - capable of extracting the essence of any thing (sara-grAhi)

    is known as nirAga vakta.

    He than says that from the point of view of their functions, there are three types of guru

    1. Sravana guru, who gives instructions on
    - bhaktas
    - bhakti
    - bhagavat –tattva
    - Gaura and Krishna lila

    2. Shiksha guru who is one that out of many competent Sravana gurus

    gives instructions on meditational path - bhajana (raga marga) which is
    specifically suitable to the spiritual mood (bhava) of his disciple

    atha Sravana guru bhajana Sikza guroh
    prayakam ekatvam iti tathaivAha
    (from Bhakti Sandarbha. Ann.206)

    which says that
    the Shravana and bhajana Sikza guru are usually the same.


    3. DikSa guru (mantra guru) is one who

    - gives a mantra for worshiping according the rules of the scriptures
    - should posses all symptoms of a mahat puruSa sad guru
    - has direct experience and realization of bhagavan
    - is well conversant in the conclusions of the Sastra
    - is expert in expounding the conclusions of the acaryas

    There is only one dikSa guru.

    Normally the dikSa guru is also the bhajana Sikza guru. If not, one should accept a
    sad Sikza guru.

    If guru

    - has become inimical to vaiSnavas, Sastra, bhakti
    - has become engrossed in sense enjoyment
    - is lacking discrimination on what is duty and not
    - is foolish
    - is not following Suddha (pure) bhakti

    should be given up.

    One should take dikSa again from vaiSnava sad guru.

    tadetadAtAravilochanasri / sambhAvitASeza vinamragarvam
    muhur murArer madhurAdharoztham / mukhAmbujam chumbati mAnasam me

    kRSNa karNamRtam 85

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