Needed

[Jodhaa]

Namaste all,

Something occurred to me this morning and I wanted to know what some on the forums think of this idea.

We all know that one of the primary goals is to rid ourselves of attachment to elements of our existence perceived by the senses. The need for people, places, objects, and outcomes must be transcended in order to find peace. But when we reach this state, what of the people who still need us? How do we know where our duty lies? Must we sever ties with those who depend on us, causing pain? Or is it understood that by the time we reach this state of non-attachment, we will have achieved a birth where dependency is not an issue?

It would seem we have very little control (if any) over the ways in which people need us. So even if we no longer need a loved one, do we still have a duty to attend to them, care for them - give them what they need?

I'm speaking normal, healthy dependency here. The love of a mother for her child, or the love and loyalty of a good friend - not relationships where desperation, addiction and weakness are the glue.

Any thoughts on this?

Thank you everyone!
Peace!

[devotee]

Namaste Jodhaa,

Lord Krishna said the whole of Bhagwad Gita to emphasize upon the need to do one's karma (action). Detachment is from Karmaphala (the fruits of Karma) and not from karma.

We must perform our duty. However, the results of our actions is the domain of God and we should detach ourselves from it.

OM

[Eastern Mind]

Or is it understood that by the time we reach this state of non-attachment, we will have achieved a birth where dependency is not an issue?

Vannakkam Jodhaa: This is my understanding. Of all the renunciates I know, it was 'easy' for them. My current Guru has no living relatives, for example. Others are there with total blessings of their families. In extended Hindu families, run properly, everyone understands this, and lets the person go to do what he or she has to do, even setting up things like trust funds, anonymously.

As devotee implied, to give up duty would be adharmic. If you look at the evolution of the soul as over several lifetimes, it's easier. "My day will come." But let's do what is proper now. I think it's important to have the goal in mind though, like the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel.

Aum Namasivaya

[Jodhaa]

First, Thank you both for your replies!

I know it would be counter to one's spiritual progress to give up duty which is why the question occurred to me in the first place.

EM, your response makes a lot of sense. I currently have a husband, family and friends that all rely on me in some way and vice versa - and even if I didn't, I'm so young in my spiritual journey that it's not like I'm on the cusp of enlightenment . I guess when one gets to the point where they surrender themselves completely they are at a point where they have the wisdom and courage to do so. Until then,one can devote time to the needs of others as long as the "bigger picture" is kept in mind too.

It also occurred to me that if the light of God exists in all - our friends, enemies, family - that attending to their needs (as long as it is healthy) is a form of service to God. This would be even more so if one keeps this in mind while performing the service.

Thank you both once again!

Peace!

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Jodhaa: But even in each single lifetime, the last ashrama, or stage is called sannyas, not to be confused with renunciates under vows from an early age. So each lifetime, health and God willing, when our householder duties are finished, God gives us some time to 'work on it' in a more inner way. Of course not everyone takes advantage of this, but it will probably be there when that time comes. It has been for me, to some degree anyway.

Aum Namasivaya

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast�

Jodhaa writes,

We all know that one of the primary goals is to rid ourselves of attachment to elements of our existence perceived by the senses. The need for people, places, objects, and outcomes must be transcended in order to find peace. But when we reach this state, what of the people who still need us?

We still act within the world, yet we do it skillfully. This is the blessing that is offered of stabilizing this transcendence you talk of. This skill is the skill of action that is accord with the laws of nature. When we are fully infused with Being, then each and every action is supported by the laws of nature on every level.
If one chooses to go to a cave , so be it. Yet many realized beings chose to remain in daily actvity - to help others progress. Then one can really help. For their words are perfect in every way and are applied to the need at hand.

You see, when one becomes the exponent of reality, we exchange the small-small 'me' for the personality of Being, of Univeral principles and existence. Then one can really help others, because it is the universe now that offers the help and support , not the localized 'me'.

This is the practical side of being fully awake.

praṇām

[Amrut]

Namaste,

The thing is, one cannot live without work. So one must do work. Enlightenment will happen only when there is not even a trace of Ego. Ego is the cause of individuality.

I will not go much deeper, but from practical grounds, the word Duty is tied with responsibility.

Now just imagine the paradox. You only realise God or have his divine vision when you surrender. Now you want to surrender yourself, but then take responsibility of others?

So whats the solution?

One has to mentally surrender everything to God. Even your kid and husband. By surrendering your loved once, means you surrender your attachment. Sri Ramakrishna says that can have divine vision of God only if one loves God more than oneself, more than mother loves child and more than wife loves husband.

So technically, do your work, but no not get attached to it. It takes time. You have to keep surrendering everything you do and just keep moksha as your only goal.

Rest leave it to God. Always remember, the God to whom you surrender is not a week fellow. God is all powerful and merciful. You should have faith in God that he will take care of your loved once.

The the one whom you have dedicated your life, to whom you keep surrendering daily and from time to time, if you do not have faith in him that he wil take care of you, your loved ones and this world, can you get his divine vision?

But you should not drop everything, just drop the attachment. This is difficult, but not impossible. So better surrender everything to God, yourself, your loved ones, evrything and keep doing your work

When maturity comes, God will take care of them. Do not worry too much, God is more knowledgeable and capable of handling his creation, this universe, and everything you know and dont know, much more efficiently.

There is an e.g. of Narasi Mehta.

He was a devotee of Krishna nad had his vision. He was not rich. When he was marrying his dauther, daughter's mother-in-law, demanded certain things. Narasi Mehta, kept the list at the feet of Krishna (Idol) and he said, you take care of this matter. When he written, he came to know that one rich businessmen had given each and every thing mentioned in the list at the house of daughter's in-laws.

I know this things happen rare. But We should take inspiration.

Do not worry too much. IF you think too much, then no one can take Sanyas (become a monk). If a mother knows that his child is going to take sanyas, will she allow? If her son has run away and she comes to know in which ashram her son is living, she will go there and do everything to bring him back.

If a person keeps thinking the question what you are thinking, he will be trapped in relations, as they ever end. The expectations, never end.

Show me a mother and father, who decide upon the birth of a child that 'my child will become a sanyasi'. Everyone wants their child to become doctor and engineer

Practically, surrender all your attachment, duty, work, and ofcourse yourself and leave it to God. Continue doing what you are doing. When maturity will come, God will change situation. Just be ready for change.

Many times, clashes happen so that our attachment for that person will reduce. I have many similar expeiriences.

When thing is that day-2-day activity should NOT come in your meditation. IF youe child is sick, then in meditation, your mind will keep going towards your child. IT will worry about your child. This is not good from spiritual standpoint.

You do whatever best you can do and then you HAVE to leave it to God.

Sadhana is the key. It helps one know oneself better.

Honestly, a day will come, when seeker does not even care about his body i.e. he/she does not live in body consciousness, and feels that God is very near. In this care, he will definintely not be social and will not do his duties, as if you do duties, expectations of others keep increasing and this expections will keep our relatives to expect more and more from you. This will keep you away from God and the feeling of peace adn bliss, which you ahve got after years of intense meditation.

No this is not a selfish nature. Mind is very neutral and has understood the essense of life. This cannot be explained. It has to be experienced. But trust me, God will take care of everyone and even change their mind so that they do not disturb you. Yes, initially there will be opposition and one has to stand strong. But later on things settle. Then God will neautralize your and others mind. I am serious - not joking, but the conditions is full faith in God and only ONE Goal - Moksha and readiness to leave this world for God.

So surrender everything to God. Actually, are we not using his creation like nature, and Jiva is using Clothes (bodies) given by God, created from the 5 tatvas, which God has created. So Technically, nothing is ours. So where is the duty? You give things back to God (i.e. attachment - do not commit suicide ), which you took it for rent. What's the problem

There are 2 stishties (creations) - Natural Srishti and Jiva Shrishti.

Nature Shrishti = one which is created by nature like sun, moon, starts, water, river, mountain, etc. They never harrass us, disturb us in any way. We just ahve to live in tune, in harmony wiht them

The culprit is Jiva Shrishti = created by Jiva, us. Brings all sorts of trouble biggest of them - me and mine, I-ness

So,

Practically, surrender all your attachment, duty, work, and ofcourse yourself and leave it to God. Continue doing what you are doing. But know that nothing is permanent. Liv ea satisfied life, which less demands and luxaries. i. Live a simple life.


Aum

IS

[izi]

That is so well written IS, thanks!

Arjuna said: O Kṛṣṇa, first of all You ask me to renounce work, and then again You recommend work with devotion. Now will You kindly tell me definitely which of the two is more beneficial?

The Personality of Godhead replied: The renunciation of work and work in devotion are both good for liberation. But, of the two, work in devotional service is better than renunciation of work.


This combined with love for iṣṭa-deva is holy

[Jodhaa]

Thank you to everyone for your replies!

Peace!

[Amrut]

That is so well written IS, thanks!

Arjuna said: O Kṛṣṇa, first of all You ask me to renounce work, and then again You recommend work with devotion. Now will You kindly tell me definitely which of the two is more beneficial?

The Personality of Godhead replied: The renunciation of work and work in devotion are both good for liberation. But, of the two, work in devotional service is better than renunciation of work.


This combined with love for iṣṭa-deva is holy

Namaste,

There is a catch.

Sri krishna says, "Work with detachment i.e. surrender of karma and karma phala (fruits of karma) is the best that suits you"

Remember, Arjuna asked, "Give what is best for me" and not "give me renunciation", though he was tempted for renunciation, he knew sometihng was wrong and so he kept saying, "Give what is best for me"

since, generally, one cannot live without work, so you cannot withdraw anyone and put him/her jail

Mind cannot be 'U' turned immediately. So Sri Ramakrishna used to say, turn your work towards God. Do everything for God. Else there are examples like Sri ramana Maharshi, who did not do any work. At the time of life time, India's freedom struggle was at the peak (Sri Ramana left his physical body in 1950). You will never find a single statement, said by Sri Ramana Maharshi, against britishers. What do you think, not a single incident happened around him?

Same with Ramakrishna (1836 to 1886). India was under British rule. Same with Swami Vivekananda. Before he became Vivekananda, he was Narendranath. Narendranath did not do anything for India. He became monk.

But in general, laymen cannot live life without work. So better surrender work to God and perform devotional practices. Later on things will change.

But one thing is sure, no matter if one has just beginner spiritual journey, no matter which path one follows, one HAS TO CHANGE the perspective of this world, society and relationship. I know it takes time, but it's not impossible.

If you want to go to Delhi. I believe, instead of taking (just discussing) about it, better start walking.

One should know the destination - Delhi - Talk with fellow seeker

Better to know from the person who has went to Delhi - talk with Jnani - Satsangh

More better to visit yourself. - become jnani yourself.

Aum

IS