Criticizing Islam taboo in academia: ex-Yale expert says

[wundermonk]

Story here.

MONTREAL — Academics who study Islamic antisemitism are risking career advancement and younger scholars are shying away from the subject as a result, said Montreal native Charles A. Small, who headed a Yale University program in antisemitism until it was shut down last year amid controversy.

The Oxford-educated Small is currently the Koret Distinguished Scholar at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution in California and director of the New York-based Institute for the Study of Global Antisemitism and Policy, which he founded.

While in Montreal to visit family for the holidays, Small gave a talk at the Canadian Institute for Jewish Research. The title summed up the dire situation that Small believes faces Israel, the Jewish community and anyone concerned with the preservation of democracy and human rights: “Incitement to Genocidal Antisemitism: Radical Islam and the Acquiescence of the Western Intellectuals and Policy Makers.”

“If you are critical of a reactionary social movement, somehow you are a racist, a neo-con fascist,” said Small. “The academy in the West is permeated [with this attitude.]”

Regrettably, he added, that view is also found among some Jewish intellectuals.

“Those scholars who have the courage to deal with this issue fear that they will not get jobs, or get promoted, or get published in the right journals… If you go against the grain, you’re out.”

Small blamed a prevailing “liberal, post-colonial” mindset among those running universities, and in some cases, because of funding from Muslim countries, such as the Gulf States.

Small portrayed himself as one of the few western intellectuals today who are saying clearly and publicly that radical Islam – and he includes the Muslim Brotherhood in that term – espouses an antisemitism that ultimately seeks to kill Jews.

“Pernicious antisemitism is at the core of radical Islam… It’s fueling the movement… whether its Sunni or Shiite,” he said. “The Iranian regime is theologically obligated to destroy Israel. The Muslim Brotherhood wants to obliterate Israel.”

The hatred is not only directed at a state – calls for the death of Jews can be heard in the mosques, he added.

Small believes that it was his outspokenness that cost him his post last year as director of the Yale Initiative for the Interdisciplinary Study of Antisemitism, which he founded five years earlier.

He recalled an associate provost at Yale telling him “we have to engage with Islam,” and appearing offended when Small replied that scholars must “scientifically and dispassionately” study any social movement and describe it as they find it.

Small deplored that U.S. President Barack Obama would meet with the new Egyptian president, Mohamed Morsi, a Muslim Brotherhood leader, and that the Obama administration has been supporting them in Egypt on the grounds that it is moderate.

Nothing could be further from the truth, as far as Small is concerned. Not only is the movement antisemitic, but it’s “diametrically” opposed to democratic principles, such as equality.

“The Obama administration invited and aided the Muslim Brotherhood to take power in Egypt,” he said. “If you are going to support such a movement, at least draw a red line [on what’s acceptable.]”

Small also lamented the inaction by Jewish leaders on the threat of radical Islam. “We are asleep. We have to educate our students, our community, speak to our governments, march in the streets like we did for Soviet Jewry.”

Academia is the last bastion of free speech. People are granted tenure after which they can not be fired precisely because academicians (of all people) should go where evidence leads them and be free to speak their minds.

[Believer]

Namaste,

The West and specifically the US has a policy that unless trouble knocks on my door, it does not exist. We tend to follow the proven unless guilty policy to the hilt. What I mean by that is that unless I see the guilt in relation to my personal dealings, I will not condemn the person. This may lead to someone being unfair to every person in the land except one, and that one person will come to the defense of the guilty, just because he has not been personally wronged by the accused. What a moronic attitude. This attitude has led to many acrimonious debates in the forum. Some well meaning members have even left because they wanted to coddle all the trouble making new members and give them EXTRA benefit of doubt even when it was established that they were muslims trying to foment trouble in the forum.

When the Russians had problems in Chechnya, we advised them to seek a political solution, meaning give in to the demands of the radical Islamists. But when we got hit, we went full force against them in Afghanistan. This attitude of not responding till it becomes personal is baffling. This same attitude permeates our intelligencia too. We tend to shy away from holding people as a group, responsible for their actions. This is leading to us acquiescing to the evil, little bit at a time, and a day might come when it will be too late to react. Look at what is happening in UK, muslim elders apply the Sharia law to their community and the outcome is taken to a civil court, where the judge signs the verdict of the sharia court to make the judgement official. It is a mockery of the common civil code being applied to everyone in the land, but it is what it is. They did not rise against it when it started and now they can't reverse it. All they can do is do some window dressing to give the appearance of the civil judges being the final authority. There has to be a sea change in the psyche of the people here to deal with the problems that may some day become ours too. But our virtuous conscious will fight this change. Our virtuous thinking is going to get us all in a lot of trouble down the road. And there may not be way out to return to the good old days.

Pranam.

[TatTvamAsi]

This is a dangerous trend but not in the way I presume you think.

Western academia is an extension of its military-industrial complex; a rather large extrapolation one might say. Western academia is primarily in the job of mining other cultures, setting up paradigms to tear down other civilizations, their people, and their histories. They promote their (selfish) interests through the garb of "freedom of speech" and "academic freedom". This is why Humans Rights Watch never publishes a report on the atrocities the US has committed in Afghanistan and Iraq. They, and other so-called "human rights" groups never publish reports on abuses by Americans on other Americans, especially minorities. This is why there is a "UN Council on International Religious Freedom" which is made up christians and Jews. This is why there is no report on the mosques being destroyed in the US by arsonists or domestic, Christian terrorists like that rat who murdered Sikhs at the gurudwara. Instead, they put India on a "watch list" for religious freedom! LOL...

They come up with outlandish theories (AIT), histories, and paradigms to ensure that other cultures are not perceived as a 'threat'. This is why Yoga is being desperately extracted from its Hindu roots in the west.

Although I have no soft spot for Muslims, they are at least fighting their hegemony in the ivory towers of academia. They have the tenacity and aggression required to challenge them on all levels by forming groups, uniting against them, and challenging their notions of reinterpretations of their (Islamic) culture/religion.

We as Hindus should be glad that Abrahamics are fighting amongst themselves. It provides us good entertainment at the least!

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

Honestly, I really am hesitant to deep dive into politics on the HDF, though I will not be shy in expressing my deep concerns regarding the threat of Islamic hegemony and its very political nature that threatens, in my strong opinion, not just “adharmic” religions or Western “cultures” but is, has been for centuries, and will continue to be a militant form of attack upon Hinduism, SD, India and its great and Motherly culture which all nations need to be grateful for.

I did not start this thread, but since it has already gone in the direction of delving into politics and in the context of “Western Academia”, I would like to note some personal observation. I have to be careful to temper my words, since my observations which I firmly hold to be on solid ground, may only pertain to US based University systems and not those of, for example, of Canada, or UK, or Germany, or even Italy or Spain or other “Western” collegic campuses.

U.S. academia is leftist, socialist, anarchist, and includes communists. As with every group, club, community, school, society, assemblage, cult, organization, political party, religion, and any group think including advocates of philosophies which claim to align with individualism and not group think, such communal identities tend to follow the idea that "your enemy's enemy is your friend" and thus form alignments that on the surface level may confuse others and become more complex due to the fact that even within the cacophony of bellowing sheep and goats and pigs of such academia there is always the few clarion calls or those who speak up and speak out a different view but are typically persecuted for doing so.

As a university graduate from the US, as well as being a Hindu, I will tell all those reading the HDF that, without question, the academicians of almost all US Universities are hard leftist, and have been allies of Islam as well, tilt pro-Muslim, to affect a hopeful empowerment of those who would weaken all aspects of Western society in the name of anti-capitalism. And, be careful Hindu brothers and sisters, they are not your friend. In some cases they simply ignore you, they ignore the glory of India and Hindu culture, in some cases they may portray negative images of Hinduism, but mostly they align with Islamic trends that are a danger to not only Western capitalism, but all others. US academia hates Israel and the “capitalist Jews” (remember, shades of National Socialists or NAZI as in Germany who saw all financial banks are being controlled by the “Jews”), they hate Christians, and while it may seem comfortable to swim in the mind set of “let the adharmic cultures fight among themselves”, do not be confused, they want to empower elements such as found in Islam that has Hindus and Hinduism in mind for elimination.

There is no question about it, I would observe this on a daily basis at the University level. One would wonder why they would do this, attempt to empower modern politicized Islam and those elements which were clearly terrorist in orientation, and the answer to this has to do with "the enemy of your enemy is your friend". If you wish to practice political circus acts to make excuses for Islamic terrorism by regarding or labeling other national acts of war and attempts at cultural hegemony as terrorism, even if you are correct from a historical perspective this does not mitigate the very real and pending Islamic threat that has clearly targeted Hinduism for death or destruction or forceful conversion. Living in comfort zones of such ideation that “everyone is a terrorist” at some time or place in the past will not solve this situation.

I observed it every day, even at the levels of preparation of University study, as well as within the University campus itself. I will tell you also, many of these academician idiots saw an evident socialist slant to politicized Islam which they approved of with glee, as evident in the muslim Ba’th Parties (Bath socialists) in the Middle East and Mesopotamia.

Let me give one example also, in regards to these alliances between Left Wing professors and academicians at US Universities and radical Islam. It was during the time of the exile of the Ayatollah Khomeini and the academician attacks on the Shah of Iran. There wasn’t a day that would go by without some teacher constantly attacking the Shah, and the “Shah’s secret police”, this was often coupled later with some sympathetic cloaking for politicized and radical Islam. Everywhere there were “flyers” attacking the Shah, there were courseware presenting a very sympathetic view of extreme Islam, day after day after day after day it would go on.

Once after visiting a Hindu temple, after some schooling, I drove down a street in my little “Datsun” (Datsun doesn’t exist anymore, the company is now Nissan) and I saw some men in robes going into a building which had the windows covered with curtains. I am always curious to see other cultures, for some reason I thought those I had observed may have been Hindu perhaps.

I parked my car, and walked down the block to the location of the building, which I knew was, and was confirmed by the sign in front of the building and the small parking lot next to it, as University property. I just couldn’t resist, there was a small opening in one of the shutters, and being young and without fear of consequences I looked into the building, which I saw inside there was a large open room. There were many there, also in robes which now obviously were Arabic or Middle Eastern in nature. Most were sitting, surprisingly, on the floor around the edges of the room, some were on fold out chairs. In front (with their backs to me) was a longer fold out table and a man, Caucasian and dressed in a sweater and who immediately struck me as being a professor (admittedly I had no evidence of such, this was my instant gut and I believe I was 100 percent correct) who was talking to this audience and who next to him was a woman who also struck me as being an academician.

Around the walls were hanging pictures, actually posters, as well as a framed picture of a man in Islamic garb and with a beard. The posters were masked militants holding weapons, even one which was a woman in a burqas holding a clenched fist in the air, and the gentleman in the portrait was the Ayatollah Khomeini. There were also sitting among the crowd, some young western people who must have been students.

What I saw is exactly what I am saying, and I will gladly submit to a lie detector test to confirm to anyone who denies what I saw as being true.

I only had maybe 2 minutes to observe what I saw, upon which I was spotted, two men dressed in middle eastern like garb started to the door with frowning faces, the two which I am convinced to this day were professors also turned and were not happy – I turned back and headed down the side walk. I quickly got to my car as the two in garb were already out, one still heading down the sidewalk at me with the other standing and showing very angry expressions.

I started the car, and drove down and had to drive right past the two who, to my observation, were trying to take mental notation of me or my car.

As far as the academicians who played no small role in the organized anti-Shah movement, they soon got their way, the Shah was ousted, the Ayatollah returned to Iran, and the Islamic Mullahs took over Iran. Today, they are probably only months away from a nuclear weapon in their hands. Have no doubt about what they may do with such weapons in the name of Islam.

It should not be a crime to criticize Islam. Though, I would like to always discuss only Hinduism on the HDF. I have no intention otherwise. But I also wanted to add some personal input to a thread which I was not the author of. There is no doubt some may strongly disagree with me. I am telling you the truth, though my senses are imperfect, my eyes are imperfect, my ears are imperfect, in fact all of my senses are imperfect including the maya of my mind. I love Hinduism. I love India. If it comes to that day, when Hinduism and the children of Hinduism, and the women of Hinduism, and the culture of SD are to be attacked with such horror, I will do anything I can to also help protect Hinduism. I also know that the men of Hinduism are so brave, and they will be victorious. And I also know, despite the fantasies of the Islamic terrorist, they have no, zero, chance of ever obtaining their totalitarian Islamic Khalifat. Their time has past. The future does not belong to them. And they are outnumbered. Vastly so. Not every Muslim is among them as well. Tomorrow is a much different place in time than the 12th Century of lies they wish upon others. I mean to offend no one. I only wish for peace. I do not even want the HDF to have such conversations which will need to be left to those who are already fully engaged in the matter and are monitoring and evaluating the situation day by day.

Om Namah Sivaya

[TatTvamAsi]

Although the academicians in the US (and other western universities) are somewhat pro-Islam, they are vehemently anti-Hindu.

The sad fact is that most of the programs and classes on Hinduism in the west are taught by mlecchas (jews/christians). They are by definition anti-Hindu and anti-Indian. As I've stated before, it's like getting a US foreign-policy lesson from the Taliban when you think westerners can "teach" (LOL) Hinduism.

These self-proclaimed scholars, who know next-to-nothing about India/Hinduism/Buddhism/Jainism are the anti-Hindus; the wolves in sheep's clothing. Hindu/India studies must be wrested from these vermin and must be taught by Hindus, not mlecchas. Thankfully, that is happening much more quickly now.

You should read "Invading the Sacred: Hinduism Studies in America" to get a better understanding of the state of affairs in academia vis-a-vis Hinduism Studies.

[ShivaFan]

Namaste TatTvamAsi

Some good points, however your comment "The sad fact is that most of the programs and classes on Hinduism in the west are taught by mlecchas (jews/christians)" implies the US professors etc are anti-Hindu because they are Christians and Jewish.

I am not sure what university you have attended in the US, but as a US university graduate my observation is they are not Christian nor Jewish. I assume you mean they were "born" so, but even that is not entirely so since these are religious designations and the parents of such professors were often atheists and of no religion other than politics and the worship of political leaders, union bosses and agitators.

They are not Christians or Jewish in religion or any such thing regarding you term mleecha, in fact they hate Christians and would like to see the total destruction of the Catholic and Protestant churches, and though a few may have been born Jewish even these few join with the other majority of such professors and teachers who hate Israel, they are pro-Palestinian and pro-Muslim.

These academicians are hard leftists, socialists and communists. They are anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, many are anti-Semite "Jew haters"', they are sympathetic with Islamic radicalism, they either ignore entirely the glory of India or are too involved with political agendas to have any interest in Hinduism. They will, and do, use classic stereotypes against Hindus if it helps promote their socialist agenda. They are no friends of Hindus.

Nothing is always totally black or white. I had a University teacher from India who did a great job presenting a positive view of ancient India. He taught about the centers of learning such as Buddhist schools, he presented Buddhist Nd Saiva philosophy, he was wonderful. We need more such teachers, not more socialist fanatics. Let me make my observations very clear. These socialists instructors literally would be screaming in angry and loud voices, with spit flying from lips, their hatred. They do not represent the average American view, they do not represent America, in fact they hate America and love their vision of a world Socialist central government.

Om Namah Sivaya

[TatTvamAsi]

ShivaFan,

I grew up in the US and attended various Christian schools (protestant middle school and catholic high school). I took classes on Hinduism in college on three different occasions and all three were taught by Christians/Jews. They had very little knowledge of Hinduism that is actually practiced and instead projected stereotypes fabricated in the 18th and 19th centuries about India/Indians/Hinduism/Hindus by the British.

You really need to read the following two books to get a better understanding of the history and current situation of Indic studies in the west:

1. Invading the Sacred: An Analysis of Hinduism Studies in America by Krishnan Ramaswamy (http://www.invadingthesacred.com/)
2. Breaking India: Western Intervention in Dravidian and Dalit Faultlines by Rajiv Malhotra (http://www.breakingindia.com/introduction/)

You are thoroughly mistaken to think that those in western academia are not sympathetic towards abrahamics. They are anti-Dharmic which means they are in collusion with other abrahamics to attack Dharma from all sides. That is why they publish "papers" demonizing Hindus and still hold on to debunked historical theories like AIT. This could also be said of those promoting "western" universalism (an oxymoron), which is another side of the same bible-thumping coin. Those who espouse WU are vehemently anti-Indian and anti-Hindu.



Look at some of the westerners on here or on the religiousforums[dot]com Hindu section. They are still holding on to AIT and allege that Sanskrit is "not really that old" and that it (along with the Veda) may have originated outside of India. Go to YogaForums.com and see the infestation of that site by westerners who claim Yoga and Hinduism are separate and that "Hinduism" is superstition and stole from Buddhism/Jainism cabal. No self-respecting Hindu would ever state such blatant falsities. These are the kinds of nonsense that is being fed to them by these so-called "scholars" of Hinduism. This is, as a segue, the reason why mlecchas were not allowed to learn the Veda or learn Yoga in the good 'ol days.



These academicians may be "leftists" in the US, but they are in collusion with christians and jews, in denigrating Indian/Hindu civilization. Read the book I mentioned to get a better grasp of the actual situation.


One of the (in)famous self-proclaimed scholar of Hinduism is this jewish person named Wendy Doniger at the university of Chicago. She is anything but a "leftist". She hates Indians, India, and Hindus/Hinduism. This putrid person has the audacity to write books on Hinduism that are in turn used by other "scholars" as textbooks for Hindu studies in the US. It's a vicious circle. Another person and self-proclaimed scholar of India is yet another jew named Martha Nussbaum, a concubine of the communist Amartya Sen (Nobel laureate in Econ). She is a lawyer by trade but has rebranded herself as a "scholar of India" and demonizes Hindus at every turn (probably because Sen dumped her).

Read those two books with patience and attention. Then look around the universities in the US and see how many mlecchas are in professorial positions for Hindu/Indian studies. Take UC Berkeley for instance; George Hart is another jew who is anti-Hindu and anti-Indian. This guy is the "chair" of the Tamil Studies department and has written many papers demonizing Brahmins and Hinduism. We don't need half-baked theories and stereotypes from these rats. Hindu studies should ONLY be taught by Hindus. There is no negotiation on this matter given the historical record of what mlecchas who were allowed to learn Dharma have done.

I am mainly talking about Hindu/Indic studies in the west. Business schools, on the other hand, are overtly pro-India. The dean of the business school of Harvard (HBS) is an Indian Hindu (Nitin Nohria). The dean of the Chicago business school (Booth) is also an Indian (Sunil Kumar - whom I've met on a couple of occasions). "Subra" Suresh, a Tamil Brahmin, was the dean of the school of engineering at MIT who now heads the national institute of science in the US. The problem is the Humanities Department in the universities in the west. This is where the old guard still holds strong and needs to be demolished. Thankfully, Hindus in America have awoken to this grave danger (see California textbook controversy) and are acting quickly to correct it. Just earlier this year, a new department and chair for Hindu Studies was created at USC (http://news.usc.edu/#!/article/36245...an-community/). This is a start and will slowly but surely spread to wipe out the anti-Hindu ticks like Michael Witzel, Steven Farmer, Diana Eck, Sheldon Pollock, Wendy Doniger et. al.

You say these "scholars" don't represent the "average American view". What exactly is the 'average American view' of India/Hinduism? It is a view filled with stereotypes and assumptions about India and Hinduism. Many westerners still think Arabs invented the numeral system. They think India was always a poor country and Hindus are defined by the "caste, cows, and curry" stereotype. This is so prevalent that it is really hard to miss if you bring up Hinduism and/or India even in casual conversation.

The funniest thing, though, is that this year, the PEW research center published a report showing that Hindus (Indians) are the most educated and highest earning group in America; far above the locals and jews, christians, muslims, and others.


Education:





Income:




Source: http://www.pewforum.org/Asian-Americ...ew.aspx#hindus


Bring this up with any westerner and see how queesy they get. They are dumbfounded at first. After all, how can Indians be rich? And educated?


This is why India was the greatest nation on this planet as well as the richest till the 1830s. Did you know that India's GDP as a fraction of the world's was 22% in 1750 (when the British rats established their rule there)? In 1950, it was 2% of the world's GDP (when they were kicked out). And many westerners will quickly blame "Indian culture" and Hinduism for this! This, is wholly because of these so-called scholars in the west who have done nothing but demonize India and Hinduism for more than 2 centuries now.


If you are truly interested in Hinduism, you must learn from the source; not from some mleccha masquerading as a "scholar".

Namaste TatTvamAsi

Some good points, however your comment "The sad fact is that most of the programs and classes on Hinduism in the west are taught by mlecchas (jews/christians)" implies the US professors etc are anti-Hindu because they are Christians and Jewish.

I am not sure what university you have attended in the US, but as a US university graduate my observation is they are not Christian nor Jewish. I assume you mean they were "born" so, but even that is not entirely so since these are religious designations and the parents of such professors were often atheists and of no religion other than politics and the worship of political leaders, union bosses and agitators.

They are not Christians or Jewish in religion or any such thing regarding you term mleecha, in fact they hate Christians and would like to see the total destruction of the Catholic and Protestant churches, and though a few may have been born Jewish even these few join with the other majority of such professors and teachers who hate Israel, they are pro-Palestinian and pro-Muslim.

These academicians are hard leftists, socialists and communists. They are anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, many are anti-Semite "Jew haters"', they are sympathetic with Islamic radicalism, they either ignore entirely the glory of India or are too involved with political agendas to have any interest in Hinduism. They will, and do, use classic stereotypes against Hindus if it helps promote their socialist agenda. They are no friends of Hindus.

Nothing is always totally black or white. I had a University teacher from India who did a great job presenting a positive view of ancient India. He taught about the centers of learning such as Buddhist schools, he presented Buddhist Nd Saiva philosophy, he was wonderful. We need more such teachers, not more socialist fanatics. Let me make my observations very clear. These socialists instructors literally would be screaming in angry and loud voices, with spit flying from lips, their hatred. They do not represent the average American view, they do not represent America, in fact they hate America and love their vision of a world Socialist central government.

Om Namah Sivaya

[ShivaFan]

Namaste TatTvamAsi

I enjoyed reading your posting very much. Not that it matters, but are you of Indian origin? Whatever the case, you are very intelligent and I like your writing style very much.

Getting right to the point, I attended public schools prior to University study, and public schools are nonsectarian and government run at the local level. It appears you attended sectarian private schools run by religious organizations such as the Catholic church.

So in that regard if my understanding is correct, I can perfectly understand your dilemma if you happen to have been a Hindu as a child and your instructors were nuns or priests or academicians who would obviously give stereotypical slant to any presentation of Hinduism.

In the public schools I attended prior to collegic discipline, there never were discussions regarding Hinduism, and I was already a Hindu at that time. Oddly, I do recall discussions on Islam.

By the time I entered the California based University system, there were some opportunities for studies related to India and "philosophies" of the East, which would include aspects of history and religious traditions. But these were very limited, and in fact such limited opportunities were academic, and there were many more opportunities to learn about Islam, Islamic art and Islamic history than there were in regards to India or Hinduism.

That was decades ago.

I still stand by my observation. At the public University system I attended, the professors were overwhelmingly leftist, socialists, communists, they hated all religions with the exception of an obvious pro-slant for Islamic radicals who they saw as allies against "capitalism", the aspiration and vision of these instructors was a future world socialist government that was centrally run by bureaucrats and politicians.

But there is no need to repeat the same points, because I notice no matter the perspective, there is a shared and well founded concern that:

* The academicians in the West either ignore Hinduism or are obviously no friend to Hinduism

But frankly, though I have never attended any public schooling in India, it wouldn't surprise me to be told that the academicians in India are no friend of Hinduism, either. Perhaps some could clarify this, I would be interested.

Om Namah Sivaya

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Namaste Forum Members who live in India and have never been to America

There were some ideas shared which may give the impression to those in India that most Americans have a very negative view of India and Hinduism.

I want to share my opinion, that this is not the case.

Firstly, for clarification, I am talking about average Americans, not academicians.

America consists of 50 States. In one sense, 50 little countries where local rule is very important, under one Union. There is great variety among these states, attitudes are divergent and wildly so.

America is not a Democracy as is India. It is what is called a Republic. Each State has a level of independence, there is no direct rule but rather representative rule. For example, we are currently having a Presidential election. It does not matter who wins the "majority" vote of all Americans. For example, let's say candidate A wins 108 million votes and candidate B wins 97 million votes. That does not mean candidate A has won and is President of the United States. That is not what determines who won.

The winner is determined by how many individual States each candidate has won using a numbering system where each State gives you so many points. So you see each State is very important, not the total votes of all Americans together, but rather there is this level of State autonomy. The President needs to win so many States, state by state, not total votes. Why? Because each State has its own type of people. In the past the differences between the culture and even the local dialect was dramatic. Today, less so. But even today, there are differences.

In some States, the people are more open to others, including to Hindus. In some States, less so. There are still many differences.

For example one of the current Presidential candidates is Romney. He is a Mormon. You may call that Christian religion, but it is not what you may think. Actually, it is an American religion. It started in the US, and is very different than anything you would think of as found anywhere in the world. Years ago, a Mormon man would have many wives, like the Muslims. They believe in certain angels, they believe Jesus appeared in America and that America is Holy like Jerusalem, that Jesus appeared and taught the American Indians, and that a stone was found with ancient writing on it in a farm in America that has holy secrets on it that can be decoded. Mormons are a minority in America, and "Christians" often call Mormons a cult. In the Century previous, the Mormons tried to form their own independent country within the United States and a war broke out between this Mormon state and the United States military. It was called the Mormon Wars, and was sort of like the Sikhs in India who tried to form their own country called Khalistan, but this was a real war in America.

Today, this Mormon candidate named Romney is leading in the polls and will probably be the next President of the United States. The current President named Obama is half-black and half-white (he is not actually black but mixed race, do not be confused by the press in India or even stupid press in the US which tells fables and propaganda). This Obama also has an odd religious background. He will say he is a Christian. But he converted to this, though there never was any ceremony per say. A long time ago, he used to hang out with what is called Black Muslims. This has nothing to do with Muslims or Islam as found in Arabia and such, even though his father was an actual Muslim. The Black Muslims are a religion which was also started in the US by a black man who taught followers that a flying saucer will one day come and take all the black followers up in this space ship while shooting a ray gun that will "kill all the blue eyed demons". I am not kidding, in fact the Black Muslims used to sell a cheap newspaper in the 1960s, of which I have a copy of that depicts the saucer shooting the ray gun. Members of the Black Muslims were the same people who assassinated a famous black radical called "Malcolm X", you may not know who I am talking about but in the US there are actually public schools named after Malcolm X .

Now I only tell you this because either of these men will be the President of the United States of America, either the current Obama whose religious background is odd and full of characters who were cult members and of a small minority, or Romney who is a Mormon which is also considered a cult by most Christians and is also a minority, but none of this matters. Americans do not actually care what religion you are, doesn't matter if they say otherwise, there are too many different types of Americans for other Americans to keep track of all of this.

I predict there will be a Hindu President of the United States of America within the next 40 years. Romney almost selected an Indian as his Vice-Presidential running mate in this current election cycle named Bobby Jindal.

I have travelled most of these States, including the deep South, as well as Hawaii, though I have not been to Alaska. There is no question that some rural areas in the South, as well as pockets of the mid-West, have odd bigotry and isolationist tendencies, often communities which due to poverty, local dialect (strong regional accents) and even to an extent due to discrimination against such rural people by more urban, suburban and wealthy society which looks down upon them, or makes fun of their spoken language, were under societal stress, faced societal isolation coupled in face of an isolation they impose upon themselves almost as a means of trying to protect their own, out of fear of losing the little respect they have. And such communities retreat into their own little circle of people and the only place they have to go for something to take their mind off of their toil is some church which can only exist and collect the few dollars of tidings (donations) that buy the preacher's white shirts and feeds the preacher's family and puts petrol in the preacher's car, is by reinforcing such isolation through fear of others including fear of Hindus who will seem to them as if from another planet.

But you need to understand, they are also persecuted in many ways and this drives their attitudes. Also understand, even they can, and will accept you, it only takes longer, more time. Once they understand that you will not be making fun of them, or look down upon them as do some of the more wealthy, then they will change. In fact they will become your best friend once that day comes, even better than that Los Angeles investment advisor, then that computer analyst from San Jose, that New York architect, that retired salesman in Miami.

I am not suggesting Hindus go into the hills of West Virginia or the back waters of Louisiana on a mission to win new friends. No. If you go there, it may not be easy for you at first.

But I do want to say, whether you chose to believe me or not, that most Americans actually like India, many are very interested in you, in India, for Hinduism. I am not suggesting that you try to convert them. Hinduism is already there, thanks to so many from India who have come, but also it is growing, ever but slowly, in a natural way without any need for you to do anything.

Do not be afraid of Americans, though I do not suggest you are afraid. Do not be misled about negative talk regarding Americans. Everything will be fine. Americans like you, some love you, and more and more will so. Can I just mention something of my personal life that happened just days ago?

I recently attended an Indian-style Hindu wedding. The original venue was to occur in Vancouver, Canada. But attendees were coming and representing five countries, including India, Canada, Australia, UK and the US. To facilitate hotel accomodations for a very large number of people, to better coordinate hired buses, and to save on costs for everyone, the venue was changed to have accomodations at several Las Vegas, Nevada, Casino Hotels, and the wedding proper at a lake resort outside of Las Vegas.

Most were Indian, some as myself were Westerners. With the exception of two young men who were "Euro" male and two Western females, Indian attire was worn by all, iincluding traditional Indian attire for myself. The women were beautiful in Indian wedding attire and heavy jewelry, earrings, saris, bangles. I was looking pretty good myself in my black achkan with gold thread borders. A beautiful girl was to wed a very nice boy.

There would be no gambling. But over and time again, as parties from one hotel to another were gathering into taxis, eventually to all meet at one location, in notable numbers as a group we would walk through the casino floors of Las Vegas. All sorts are found in a casino. But imagine a large group of people all decked out in flashy Indian attire, do you think we would stand out and be noticed by all the patrons of the casino floor?

Oh yes. We were noticed. Indeed we were. People would stop in their tracks. The heads of those sitting at the blackjack tables turned. Dice shooters looked at us and not the tumbling dice. Cigarettes about to be lit, were not lit. Eyes turned.

And then?

Smiles. Lots of smiles. Women repeatedly came up, very polite, but could not help themselves, they would tell the Indian women, "Beautiful! You are so beautiful!". Men would exclaim out loud, "Wonderful!", and men would tell the party "I love your clothing! Are you from India? Is there a wedding?" ...

How many directly approached to exclaim the beauty of the women, to praise the clothing and the bangles, the long earrings, to wish all the best? Within the first 15 minutes, more than 15 ... One every minute. They would not stop.

How many frowned at us? I didn't see one.

How many smiled, or even showed happy surprise? Everyone who looked.

Jokes? None. And I could see as clear as day, more than a few young men wished they could have such a bride of one of these ladies from India. But young or old, the place lit up. There was nothing to stop us.

Some may tell you about that monster who killed those Sikhs, and want you to hate Americans. That is not America. Yes America is still in many ways the "Wild West". Yes, there are a lot of guns in American. I have guns, too. There are many races in America, there are many English, and Irish, and Scottish, and Germans, and in the South many French who still to this day speak French, and many Mexicans who speak Spanish, and Cubans, and now lots of Russians, many Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, there are Natives (American Indians) called Hopi, Navaho, Cherokee, Ohlone, Seminole, Arapaho, Paute, Apache, over 250 tribes, there are hippies and cowboys, there are red necks and bigots, there are "blacks" who were once slaves, there are those as poor as you would find in anyplace else, there are those who cannot read or write, there are billionaires, and millionaires, there are drunks and drug addicts, there are gamblers at blackjack tables, tattooed tough guys, there are saints, there are the insane and there are the intellectuals, there are Republicans and Democrats, the academicians and Socialists, there are Nazis, there are Hells Angels motorcycle club members, there are Christians, and Buddhists, and Jews, now there are mosques, not far from where I live is a huge Jain Temple.

There are Hindus.

One day, if you have not come to see America, and you have a chance to do so, please come. Everything will be fine. Everyone is welcome.

Om Namah Sivaya

[TatTvamAsi]

Namaste ShivaFan,

I guess we are really speaking past each other in a way.

Do read those books when you get a chance. They will better inform you of the state of Hinduism studies, and the general state of Hinduism, or the perceptions thereof, in America. The facts within are thoroughly researched and supported so it would behoove you, and others, to read them with seriousness.

Also, I presume you have never visited India(?). Comparing the diversity of India to any other country in the world is a futile attempt. It is like comparing the diversity within Hinduism to that of the Abrahamic religions; it's a non-sequitur.

I don't want to get into an argument over this, but there really is no comparison between the US and India in terms of diversity of cultures, peoples, religions, ways of life, and languages. It is completely erroneous to state that Americans will "accept" anybody. This is especially NOT true in politics. Look at Bobby Jindal and "Nikki" Haley. They are as "American" as can be except for their ethnicity; this proves that American diversity, or western diversity, much akin to Western Universalism, is only skin-deep, literally. If Bobby 'Piyush' Jindal remained Hindu, he couldn't even think of getting elected even in California, let alone a dump like Louisiana. Namrata Randhawa, or Nikki Haley (difference anxiety), is the same; she is worse because she not only converted to Christianity from Sikhism, but also married a bible-thumper and is raising her children in that cult. She, or Jindal, can in no way can be called an "Indian" in culture. Racially, yes. Not culturally.

The diversity in India is unparalleled despite the people sharing more or less the same genotype (even if they are of different phenotypes). In America, people may look different but will have to tow the line of western "culture" to fit in. In India, you can be an illiterate, foreign waitress who can't speak a proper sentence of the local language but can be one of the most powerful politicians in the country! In all seriousness, each state is a country within with its own language, customs, sub cultures, cuisine, clothing, and ways of life. The only thing that holds India together is the string that is Sanatana Dharma - if the states are the beads of pearls, the string is Hinduism.

The reason is because India's ethos of accepting diversity is integral whereas in the west it is synthetic (as Mr. Malhotra states). It comes from within; Hinduism is the most diverse "religion", and it's not by accident; we Hindus recognized the variegation of manifestation from time immemorial. That is why Hindus worship the earth. That is why Hindus worship cows. That is why Hindus hail a highway robber as one of the greatest sages of the world - Valmiki who authored the Ramayana. It is why the sad-darSanA exist. It is why Yoga was invented in India. It is why Indians never burnt anyone at the stake for holding opposing views or beliefs.

Read up on those professors I listed in my previous post. Take a look at their work and come to an educated conclusion that is both objective and unbiased.

Hinduism has a bad reputation in the purview of the public. This is solely due to the nonsense written by Europeans and then Americans on India and Hinduism since the late 1700s.

[Anirudh]

Namaste Wundermonk, Shiva Fan and TatTvamAsi

After reading the entire thread couldn't recollect how I landed on to this thread. Must say this is one of the very well written threads I have read here with many points to ponder (especially for the patriotic Bhaarathvaasis).