Enlightenment

[Bhairava]

I was reading Para-trisika-Vivarana The Secret of Tantric Mysticism which is a book on Kashmir Shaivism. They basically say the enlightenment of Vedantins and Buddhists are lesser stages of manifestation and not enlightenment at all. I follow all 3 of these paths since I follow the Advaita philosophy so I am thoroughly confused. Here is the quote on page 110:

"The vijnanakalas, however, have only an awareness of 'I' which though of the order of knowledge is devoid of the experience of 'this' i.e. objectivity. Because of their non-awareness of objective reality, they have only an awareness of 'I' and, therefore, they are in the category of aprabuddha i.e. unawakened. The pralayakevalis are non-aware of both 'I' and 'this'. Therefore they are decidedly unawakened."

They explain in the book how those are lower manifestations of existence but I just couldnt except it for some reason and I didnt understand it. Kashmir Shaivism claims its enlightenment is at the level of Isvara (god) which is identity in diversity. Using Vedantic terms it would seem like vijnanakalas where at the stage of manifest Brahman because of not being aware of objectivity which is superior to Isvara which is identity in difference. Pralayakevalis seem like thats the stage of unmanifest Brahman since they are not aware of 'I' or 'this' so wouldnt that be the highest reality?

If you use Kashmir Shaivism terms it seems like vijnanakalas are beyond the level of Isvara at the level of Shiva-Shakti since only 'I' is percieved and no difference. Pralayakevalis since there is no 'I' or 'this' they seem to be in the state of Parama Siva beyond all categories like the unmanifest Brahman.

This is confusing the Hell out of me; would love to hear your perspective.

[wundermonk]

Let me venture a wild guess.

Me thinks, an Advaitin will proclaim his enlightenment is of the highest variety.

Me thinks, a Kashmir Shaivite will proclaim his enlightenment is of the highest variety.

Me thinks, a Buddhist will proclaim his enlightenment is of the highest variety.

So, are you trying to find out which of the three groups, Advaitins/Kashmir Shaivites/Buddhists, have the greatest number of adherents on HDF via your poll?

Voting on a poll is certainly the best way out there to figure out the truth on philosophical/theological issues. Guaranteed.

[Twilightdance]

This is confusing the Hell out of me; would love to hear your perspective.

Starting with kashmir shaivism without a guru, that too directly the para trisika vivarana, it is not surprising that you end up confused as hell.

Anyway, KS is just a bunch of theory these days and there is no publicly known living tradition as far as I am aware [except those who claim to be linked to Lakshman Joo by some sort of inspiration]. Study of KS can be of benefit for the general tantrika, but in that case start gradually. There is a lot of suggestion on books on this in this forum, just do a search.

As far argumentation on philosophical superiority of different views, one should keep away from it in this age as they are never true to the original view being criticized.

[Mana]

हरिः ओम्


Namaste Bhairava,


Dig one well and dig it deep; else you become highly confused.
Kashmir Shavism reflects upon the symptoms of a yogi; his/her experience.
To experience this in your heart, rather than cognitive understanding; a trick over your mind.
Did you know that you have neurons in your heart?
Joy and delight in being, in seeing the divine manifest in everything.
No mental or cognitive efforts, that would be mind; acceptance through realisation.

All schools of thought speak of the same thing, yet if we must separate "I" from "this", the differance between
the schools of thought exists temporally, spatially but, maybe not metaphysical.
To pertain to the nature of the SELF rather than that of the Self. What if the SELF conceal its SELF, then
what?

Its temporal and spacial.

Welcome to the forum.


praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Aum Namaḥ Śivāya

[Bhairava]

Let me venture a wild guess.

Me thinks, an Advaitin will proclaim his enlightenment is of the highest variety.

Me thinks, a Kashmir Shaivite will proclaim his enlightenment is of the highest variety.

Me thinks, a Buddhist will proclaim his enlightenment is of the highest variety.

So, are you trying to find out which of the three groups, Advaitins/Kashmir Shaivites/Buddhists, have the greatest number of adherents on HDF via your poll?

Voting on a poll is certainly the best way out there to figure out the truth on philosophical/theological issues. Guaranteed.

lmao. It was never my intention to add a poll but I saw the add a poll option and thought it would be funny, then thought it could be interesting. My problem is the fact that I follow the philosophy of Advaita (non duality) and all 3 of those are an Advaita philosophy.

[Bhairava]

हरिः ओम्


Namaste Bhairava,


Dig one well and dig it deep; else you become highly confused.
Kashmir Shavism reflects upon the symptoms of a yogi; his/her experience.
To experience this in your heart, rather than cognitive understanding; a trick over your mind.
Did you know that you have neurons in your heart?
Joy and delight in being, in seeing the divine manifest in everything.
No mental or cognitive efforts, that would be mind; acceptance through realisation.

All schools of thought speak of the same thing, yet if we must separate "I" from "this", the differance between
the schools of thought exists temporally, spatially but, maybe not metaphysical.
To pertain to the nature of the SELF rather than that of the Self. What if the SELF conceal its SELF, then
what?

Its temporal and spacial.

Welcome to the forum.


praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Aum Namaḥ Śivāya

"Did you know that you have neurons in your heart?"

Yes

"All schools of thought speak of the same thing"

Thats how I usually look at things but the author went out of his way to claim they are different so it made me think and I didnt automatically except his claims.

[Mana]

हरिः ओम्


Namaste Bhairava,


It is customary here on HDF to make appropriate salutations to each other whilst conversing
as you can see it takes little space but makes such a differance to the ambiance. You also might be interested
to know that we have an introductions folder and dedicated thread, it is customary to make a short auto
introduction here, that the other forum readers may learn a little about your good self and your background.

The paths are different; they have similar roots, if upon following one profoundly, you feel eventually
blocked or limited; a request to ones Guru to expand from and experience another school, I am sure
would not be frowned upon. Once your posture is firm.
Until that time, one will not achieve any leap ahead by switching or seeking a faster or more direct path.

I would recommend that you re examine your choice of literature if you do not feel easy with that
which you are reading. I should like to suggest that that which you are feeling which is stimulating
these "vritti" of the mind are the neurons in your heart telling you to change your book, your mind is
trying to conceptualise something when, quite simply, your heart knows better thus the confusion;
follow your instinct.

No matter which school of thought you follow, I should like to sudgest Patajali ashtanga yoga as a fine
accompaniment to your practise. This prepares us very well for of all the paths that you have mentioned.

I will add though that, these paths effective lead to Bhakti yoga, please don't negate the possibility
that this could be for you also.



praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Aum Namaḥ Śivāya

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

Enlightenment is not a philosophy.
It is a non-temporary state.
Even a bird can become enlightened.

Those who were not enlightened but then became enlightened, I vote for them. Because they are the great heroes for those such as me. Sometimes the company you keep means more to your abilities than philosophy. For example the company of devotees, of sadhus and saints, and the Devas and Devi. Name me one person who is living this moment in my time and place, who for whatever reason either karma, or self will to aid others, or even circumstantial, is within ear shot, or vision, to me that then became enlightened. give me the name of that one. Who is right here, right now.

Can you give me a name?

Then I will perhaps ask that one if that one has a philosophy.

Give me a name. In my humble opinion, as the saying goes.

Om Namah Sivaya

[R Gitananda]

... these paths effective lead to Bhakti yoga, ...

hari aum
namaste

Mana, why do you say that and what is your conception of Bhakti yoga?

pranams

[Mana]

हरिः ओम्


Namaste R Gitananda,

Thank you for your kind consideration, I hope that I am able to clarify my perspective for you.

To be concious of God, aware of his nature in every being, the mind becomes without the slightest hesitation
or doubt as it recedes; to reside momentarily in God conciousness, is to be in communion with God.
In detachment we are left with only this, space for attachment to God; feelings which were once dependant
upon objective circumstance, are now freed to experience this facet of nature, this realm.

This is, to my mind; Bhakti yoga.



praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Aum Namaḥ Śivāya