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Thread: Discovering Our Place

  1. #1
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    Discovering Our Place

    "All he knows is what he is not. If only he could see what he is."
    -'Balto' (children's film)

    Namaste,

    As a western Hindu, and being fairly new at that, I am beginning to notice the ways in which my position is both a benefit and a weakness.

    When I dance the Garba, I am Gujarati.
    When I am with my "Indian mother" I am Tamil.
    When I participate in the Kolagari Lakshmi Pooja, I am Bengali.
    For Janmastami I am Vaishnava
    For Navratri I am Shakta

    I am learning that everyone "does it differently". Everyone has there own traditions. But as a westerner, what are mine? Do I take it all in - celebrate it all? Or do I find a way to bring my own ethnic/cultural heritage into this new faith that I love? The latter seems difficult. Ethnically speaking, my family heritage is Irish, so even if I go back to before Christianity came to Ireland, I'm left with quite a few traditions that just don't mesh well with Hinduism. But really, I'm not Irish, because I was born in the United States. Where does that leave me?

    At least for the first few years, it seems okay to participate in all of the various traditions, since that will be the best way for me to discover how I prefer to worship and celebrate. But after that, do I have to choose? Am I unceremoniously "adopted" by some tradition of another? No matter how well I dance the Garba, no one watching will ever mistake me for Indian. I guess what I have to decide is whether that actually matters. There are certainly times when I am at Temple when I forget, for ever so brief a time that I am a Caucasian westerner -but then someone speaks Tamil and I remember. Will this illusion of separateness fade over time? I hope so.

    Have other Western "converts" encountered/felt this dilemma? Thank you for reading my rant

    Peace!

    "God will not have his work made manifest by cowards."
    ~Ralph Waldo Emerson


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    Re: Discovering Our Place

    Namaste,

    My comments have not been sought, but I will take a crack at it anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jodhaa View Post
    ....my family heritage is ........

    Does it matter at all? Once a person crosses the threshold and embraces SD, the ties of the past have to be loosened in order to have a real spiritual progress. In many Hindu sects, when a person becomes a renunciate, he goes through a procedure. Part of the procedure is making an effigy of himself and putting it in the sacrificial fire. That signifies the demise of the person 'he was'. He severs all ties to his past,
    gets a new name and becomes a new person from that day on. Not everyone has to take such drastic steps, but getting the cobwebs of the past out of ones mind speeds up the progress on the new path. Sure mind wanders off and at times likes to think what 'I was', but it should become just a thought 'passing through', something that one should not dwell on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jodhaa View Post
    At least for the first few years, it seems okay to participate in all of the various traditions, ........

    A new convert should and must familiarize oneself with as many traditions as possible. Over time one could limit oneself to fewer or just one tradition. It all depends on what helps the person connect with the divinity. There is nothing wrong with participating in the joyous traditions of different groups for as long as the heart desires.


    Pranam.

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    Re: Discovering Our Place

    Namaste Jodhaa

    I already "put on the jacket" that "fits" for me long back. But just because I did that (e.g. Saiva) doesn't change anything as to "Why I am a Hindu". It has a lot more to do than with just reading endlessly sacred texts, Veda, Ramayana and so on. Maybe I say it too often, but for me Hinduism is a complete, ongoing, living experience full of life chapters, a riot of color and perceptions into the "doors of perception" (as imperfect as they are), and I ENJOY Hinduism, I enjoy going to all sorts of temples, all sorts of celebrations for Devas and Devi, it as been that way for me since a little boy and nothing going to change regarding that now that I am soon going to be dead and gone (well, not tomorrow I hope, but I'm getting old).

    So like I said to all my relatives (and I put it in my written instructions to all family as well), when I am dead that I will be cremated and my ashes thrown into the Ganga at Manikarnika. I feel sorry for whoever may have to pay for this, and right now I live in America and not India so I assume there will be expenses, but I have the money and so they won't need to spend a penny.

    But up until that happens, I want to go to as many temples as I can, and be will every person of Hindu truth that I can, and I will respect all the Devas and Devi, and where I am at that moment be it a village in India or a big city, Whom ever is the respected Devata of the endowed Hindus there then I will give my respects to that Devata. For me, I live for today, and where I am at that moment is where I am at that moment today. I have no fears. I have a lot of fun. I enjoy a lot of love.

    As one prayer goes, "all my friends are the devotees" - by God that is true, they are the only friends one needs, be they Punjabi, Gujarati, Bengali, Assamese, Nepali, French, German, Russian, Swede, Canadian (is that a "race" ??? ....), if they think they are the Highest or if they are told they are the Lowest, I just want to be with them every chance I get. I will dance with them, I will say "Hare Krishna, Hare Ram" with them, my greatest joy in life to be quite frank, though I am not discounting the sacred texts which are important, but my greatest joy is Bhajans. And I am a Saiva, but when I die the Ramayana will be right on my chest, it will be the last thing I will read.

    Jai to Mother India, for giving me this!

    Om Namah Sivaya

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    Re: Discovering Our Place

    Thank you both for your responses!

    Believer - You are right in that one's heritage shouldn't matter, and that is the state of mind I am working towards. Overcoming the self consciousness that leads one to hide their true self from others, for fear of judgement is the great hurdle. And not just the judgement of family and friends who know me still as a non-Hindu, but the judgement of other Hindus! The desire for the other devotees to believe my sincerity weighs heavily on me. I know, deep down, only God needs to know that I am sincere. But then again, we are social beings, and it makes the journey much more joyful if we have others to share it with.

    This probably also comes with discovering SD in my mid 20s instead of growing up with it. I am surrounded by those who know me as something else. Fundamentally I consider myself the same person - Same sense of humor, same ethics, etc. In a lot of American culture a shift in religious views is viewed with suspicion. And to complicate things further, there are "degrees". For example, If I told everyone I was converting from Christianity to Judaism, well okay, it's new but not completely out of the ball park. If I told them SD instead, well that's "weird and unfamiliar so we don't trust it."

    It is undoubtedly just something I have to gain more courage about. Luckily for me, it's not a race

    Shivafan - I am enjoying the process of learning about the various traditions. One of the great joys I have discovered is that the many practices within SD are a constant reminder of unity. So perhaps my concerns over not being accepted, or not being taken seriously are unpleasant leftovers from over 20 years of being raised in a faith that emphasizes the ways we are separate, not alike. I will try to remind myself of this in the future so that I can continue to shake off old, hard wired prejudices.

    Thank you both again, for commenting!

    Peace
    !
    "God will not have his work made manifest by cowards."
    ~Ralph Waldo Emerson


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    Re: Discovering Our Place

    Vannakkam Jodhaa: Here in the west, many temples and communities are 'amalgamated' temples. This generally happened out of necessity financially, because each group couldn't afford to build their own temple. There has been a lot of give and take within Hindu communities, and because of our general sense of tolerance, we've been fortunate to have it happen.

    I'm not sure of the outcome yet though. Time will tell. There is a sense of loss in the process. I remember a small town where I grew up where the non-Catholic denominations amalgamated in Christianity. Nobody was really happy with it, as many people thought they lost something in this process, and some dropped out entirely.

    So time will tell where you are. Right now, although they won't say it publicly out of politeness, I suspect there are many at your temple that go there simply because there is nowhere else to go. They would prefer a temple 'just like the one back home' but since that's impossible, this place will have to do ... for now. Then often in larger centers more temples do get built.

    As an outsider looking in for now, or just somebody like you enthralled with SD in general, its even more complicated. Most people do end up narrowing it down, from who they meet, from how they feel, from what books they read makes the most sense.

    Good luck with it.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Discovering Our Place

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Vannakkam Jodhaa: Here in the west, many temples and communities are 'amalgamated' temples. This generally happened out of necessity financially, because each group couldn't afford to build their own temple.
    I'm not sure of the outcome yet though. Time will tell. There is a sense of loss in the process. I remember a small town where I grew up where the non-Catholic denominations amalgamated in Christianity. Nobody was really happy with it, as many people thought they lost something in this process, and some dropped out entirely.

    So time will tell where you are. Right now, although they won't say it publicly out of politeness, I suspect there are many at your temple that go there simply because there is nowhere else to go. They would prefer a temple 'just like the one back home' but since that's impossible, this place will have to do ... for now. Then often in larger centers more temples do get built.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post


    Aum Namasivaya


    I had never thought of this. I can see where combing all the traditions into one place could leave many people feeling like they've lost something. For me, it is all new, so it feels complete - often times so complete as to be mindbogglingly complex! Where I live there are several Baptist churches, a few Lutheran churches and who knows how many non-denominational Christian Churches. I Often wondered how a combined congregation was different from a more specific one.

    Thank you for your insight!

    Peace!
    "God will not have his work made manifest by cowards."
    ~Ralph Waldo Emerson


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    Re: Discovering Our Place

    Vannakkam: A more realistic analogy would be to amalgamate a synagogue, a mosque, and a church into one. Then surely many would feel they lost something.

    So I'm really not sure how this is going to go. There will always be compromises, and I hope for the sake of the survival of SD, not all things are lost in this process.

    Aum Namasivaya

  8. #8

    Re: Discovering Our Place

    Being in the same position as you, boy do I feel the frustration.

    Something I realized along the lines, as far as culture goes, is that it's very tasty for a western Caucasian to see all the beautiful, old Culture of Indian and want to embrace it. Nose piercings, saris, toe rings, salwar kameez, bindi, everything!! It's just so amazing. America doesn't have much of culture that deep, that intrinsic. We can talk about our fore fathers, the constitution - but with people making outright lies about them and their motives or feelings for political movements, they're not very easy to grasp on like typical culture. And it's not even very... material. Most of American Culture is in ideas - Commercialism! Democracy! Freedom! America! Home of the Brave! Baseball! Pie! - but nothing you can wear, without feeling tacky (http://www.flagclothes.com/images/ho...left_fixed.jpg) and nothing you can use to express yourself. (My fiance adds that the American Flag pin is something American's can wear to express their pride, hehe)

    The most I have for "culture" is from high school. Subculture is very strong in America, but that's about it!! Nerds, goths, preps, jocks, geeks, band geeks, theater geeks... but nothing. Other than that it's really silly things - video games, books, computer culture. Nothing that runs deep. Indian culture is very deep, historical, and meaningful.

    I don't know yet, for myself, how much of the culture I will and can embrace, without feeling like a white girl appropriating someone else's history. It's a hard thing to figure out.

    anyway... As far as discovering our place. Should we make our own, a temple for white Hindus? Or should we mix with the "true" Hindus? I think intermingling would be the most true to the spirit of the thing, but I'm sure, like others pointed out, not everyone is for that! Time will tell, ultimately. If enough of us spring up, show up to temple, and do our white-girl thing (or white guy-thing. I have no idea what I'm talking about) then we'll find a place, somewhere.

    And I think you'll find yours in time I'm trying to not worry about it and let God lead my path. Too early for me, anyway. I forget how long you are on your path. I hope this long ramble helped!!
    Last edited by Ninendiva; 30 October 2012 at 02:48 AM. Reason: silly typos

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    Re: Discovering Our Place

    Vannakkam: I personally believe the future of Hinduism in the west partially lies in the converts and adoptives, unless the global situation remains the same and we have a steady stream of new immigrants from India and elsewhere where Hinduism is engrained.

    Some of the original Hindu temples from the early 60s are now practically dead. Because there wasn't a large enough population to support language classes, religion classes, and parents didn't recognise right away the need for education of a particular nature (religion) they lost a whole generation. It was very very difficult to be a Hindu in the west. I've seen 3 generations, and the third generation is quite unlikely to continue much of Hinduism, being totally westernised now, with no language, no daily ritual, and no desire to return to India on pilgrimage or even attend a Hindu temple.

    Look at what happened in the British Empire sugar diaspora. Only in places where there was substantial population did it survive at all. Guyana, Trinidad, Fiji, Surinam, yes, but all the other smaller places like Grenada, Jamaica, St. Lucia, you can't even find a Hindu temple. Total integration into a mixed but new culture.

    In my community, even though its only been 30 years, if it weren't for new immigrants from TN, the temple would hardly make it. All the board members are getting older, and have too much pride to pass it on to the new generation.

    This is not something unique to Hinduism. Practically all European cultures that came to America and Canada around the turn of the century are now dead. The exception is in metro areas where there was significant population. You might hear Italian spoken in New York, for example, but the Italians (about 50 families) once had a small thriving community in Blairmore, Alberta too. it's long gone other than a few pictures in the town museum.

    So as converts and adoptives, we have to consider taking leading roles, not watching roles. Hinduism Today is an excellent example of this. So many Indians appreciate it, hardly realizing its a publication started by western converts.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Discovering Our Place

    Namaste Ninendiva and EM,

    Ninendiva- Thank you for adding your two cents. I can relate to most of what you are talking about. It's true about "American Culture" in that it is largely based on remnants of either European cultures or lofty, abstract ideas that no longer have a deep meaning for many of us. The only other American Culture I can think of might be that "old west, spirit of adventure" thing, however - that's too wrapped on in Native American genocide to feel like it's something we can be proud of.

    On the other hand I once had a discussion with a Belgian tourist in Dublin, Ireland about Americans and their need to "find their roots" and how it seems like everyone else in the world has a sense of a "homeland". He simply shook his head and said, "No. That's all BS. In Europe, we are so close together, cultures and languages mix a lot." So who knows.

    I don't think separating ourselves from native Indian Hindus is the answer. We just need to work harder at finding each other while simultaneously making sure we learn from the source- those native Hindus. As EM touched on, we have to increase our involvement. The trouble is, people our age who are just discovering SD, will be really be able to lead in time for it to matter? There are decades worth of learning to be done -possibly lifetimes!

    EM - Thank you for your contribution. I keep meaning to get a subscription of Hinduism Today! Thank you for the reminder. I agree that the answer lies with committed converts as well as open minded, older, native Hindus. What I like about my local temple is that the elders are very committed to passing on there heritage to the younger generations. There are religious and language classes and well as a Hindu Heritage Camp in the summer. I can tell they still struggle because the community is not a large one like it is in Chicago or New York. But the signs are promising.


    Peace!
    "God will not have his work made manifest by cowards."
    ~Ralph Waldo Emerson


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