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Thread: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

  1. #21

    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    Rig veda 10.90.1-16

    sahasraśīrṣā puruṣaḥ sahasrākṣaḥ sahasrapāt |
    sabhūmiṃ viśvato vṛtvātyatiṣṭhad daśāṅghulam ||
    puruṣa evedaṃ sarvaṃ yad bhūtaṃ yacca bhavyam |
    utāmṛtatvasyeśāno yadannenātirohati ||
    etāvānasya mahimāto jyāyāṃśca pūruṣaḥ |
    pādo.asyaviśvā bhūtāni tripādasyāmṛtaṃ divi ||
    tripādūrdhva udait puruṣaḥ pādo.asyehābhavat punaḥ |
    tato viṣvaṃ vyakrāmat sāśanānaśane abhi ||
    tasmād virāḷ ajāyata virājo adhi pūruṣaḥ |
    sa jātoatyaricyata paścād bhūmimatho puraḥ ||
    yat puruṣeṇa haviṣā devā yajamatanvata |
    vasantoasyāsīdājyaṃ ghrīṣma idhmaḥ śarad dhaviḥ ||
    taṃ yajaṃ barhiṣi praukṣan puruṣaṃ jātamaghrataḥ |
    tena devā ayajanta sādhyā ṛṣayaśca ye ||
    tasmād yajāt sarvahutaḥ sambhṛtaṃ pṛṣadājyam |
    paśūntāṃścakre vāyavyānāraṇyān ghrāmyāśca ye ||
    tasmād yajāt sarvahuta ṛcaḥ sāmāni jajire |
    chandāṃsijajire tasmād yajustasmādajāyata ||
    tasmādaśvā ajāyanta ye ke cobhayādataḥ |
    ghāvo hajajire tasmāt tasmājjātā ajāvayaḥ ||
    yat puruṣaṃ vyadadhuḥ katidhā vyakalpayan |
    mukhaṃ kimasya kau bāhū kā ūrū pādā ucyete ||
    brāhmaṇo.asya mukhamāsīd bāhū rājanyaḥ kṛtaḥ |
    ūrūtadasya yad vaiśyaḥ padbhyāṃ śūdro ajāyata ||
    candramā manaso jātaścakṣoḥ sūryo ajāyata |
    mukhādindraścāghniśca prāṇād vāyurajāyata ||
    nābhyā āsīdantarikṣaṃ śīrṣṇo dyauḥ samavartata |
    padbhyāṃ bhūmirdiśaḥ śrotrāt tathā lokānakalpayan ||
    saptāsyāsan paridhayastriḥ sapta samidhaḥ kṛtāḥ |
    devāyad yajaṃ tanvānā abadhnan puruṣaṃ paśum ||
    yajena yajamayajanta devāstāni dharmāṇi prathamānyāsan |
    te ha nākaṃ mahimānaḥ sacanta yatra pūrve sādhyāḥsanti devāḥ ||

    1. A THOUSAND heads hath Puruṣa, a thousand eyes, a thousand feet.
    On every side pervading earth he fills a space ten fingers wide.
    2 This Puruṣa is all that yet hath been and all that is to be;
    The Lord of Immortality
    which waxes greater still by food.
    3 So mighty is his greatness; yea, greater than this is Puruṣa.
    All creatures are one-fourth of him, three-fourths eternal life in heaven.
    4 With three-fourths Puruṣa went up: one-fourth of him again was here.
    Thence he strode out to every side over what cats not and what cats.
    5 From him Virāj was born; again Puruṣa from Virāj was born.
    As soon as he was born he spread eastward and westward oer the earth.
    6 When Gods prepared the sacrifice with Puruṣa as their offering,
    Its oil was spring, the holy gift was autumn; summer was the wood.
    7 They balmed as victim on the grass Puruṣa born in earliest time.
    With him the Deities and all Sādhyas and Ṛṣis sacrificed.
    8 From that great general sacrifice the dripping fat was gathered up.
    He formed the creatures of-the air, and animals both wild and tame.
    9 From that great general sacrifice Ṛcas and Sāma-hymns were born:
    Therefrom were spells and charms produced; the Yajus had its birth from it.
    10 From it were horses born, from it all cattle with two rows of teeth:
    From it were generated kine, from it the goats and sheep were born.
    11 When they divided Puruṣa how many portions did they make?
    What do they call his mouth, his arms? What do they call his thighs and feet?
    12 The Brahman was his mouth, of both his arms was the Rājanya made.
    His thighs became the Vaiśya, from his feet the Śūdra was produced.
    13 The Moon was gendered from his mind, and from his eye the Sun had birth;
    Indra and Agni from his mouth were born, and Vāyu from his breath.
    14 Forth from his navel came mid-air the sky was fashioned from his head
    Earth from his feet, and from his car the regions. Thus they formed the worlds.
    15 Seven fencing-sticks had he, thrice seven layers of fuel were prepared,
    When the Gods, offering sacrifice, bound, as their victim, Puruṣa.
    16 Gods, sacrificing, sacrificed the victim these were the earliest holy ordinances.
    The Mighty Ones attained the height of heaven, there where the Sādhyas, Gods of old, are dwelling.


    Notes:
    -This is obviously the puruSha-sukta of the Rg veda.
    -The puruSha identified here is described with attributes of a Supreme Deity.
    -Neither viShNu's nor nArAyaNa's name is mentioned here, however this hymn is commonly interpreted in vedAntic circles as referring to nArAyaNa, and other sources such as the mahAnArAyaNa upaniShad do clearly identify this puruSha with nArAyaNa (will discuss later).
    -The references to "thousands" of heads, arms, etc is, as per my understanding (can't recall where I read this) referring not literally to a "thousand" but more in the sense of having limitless arms, legs, etc.
    -It's interesting there that this supreme deity is described as being the sacrificial victim. This obviously requires commentary which I don't have at present. I have read that it is a metaphor for the Deity creating the world out of Himself, which is another Upanishadic concept seen in multiple places.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  2. #22

    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    yajur veda (taittirIya saMhitA) 4.2.9.10-11:

    "May they sustain us with support.
    That highest step of Visnu."

    Here is a less direct reference in yajur veda (taittirIya saMhitA) 4.4.12:

    "May the heavenly of the quarters, the easily milked, the rich in milk,
    The goddess aid us, full of ghee;
    Thou art the protector, who goest in front and behind;
    O Brhaspati, yoke a voice in the south.
    (May) the upright of the quarters, the bounteous region of the plants,
    And Savitr with the year of the days (aid us);
    The Revat Saman, and the Atichandas metre;
    Without a foe, be kindly to us.
    O thou of the three-and-thirtyfold Stoma, lady of the world,
    Breathed on by Vivasvant, do thou be gracious to us [4];
    Rich in ghee, O Savitr, through thy overlordship,
    Be the bounteous region rich in milk, for us.
    The firm among the quarters, lady of Visnu, the mild,
    Ruling over this strength, the desirable,
    Brhaspati, Matarivan, Vayu,
    The winds blowing together be gracious to us.
    Prop of the sky, supporter of the earth,
    Ruling this world, lady of Visnu,
    All-extending, seeking food, with prosperity,
    May Aditi be auspicious to us in her life.
    Vaivanara to our help.
    Present in the sky.
    Us to-day Anumati.
    O Anumati, thou.
    With what to us radiant shall he be?
    Who to-day yoketh?"
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  3. #23

    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    There are multiple references in the yajur veda saMhitA (taitirIya saMhitA) equating viShNu with yagna - this theme also comes out in the bhagavad-gItA and the bhAgavata purANa in conjunction with the monotheistic message of viShNu sarvottama:

    vi. 1. 4.

    Speech went away from the gods, not being willing to serve for the sacrifice. She entered the trees. It is the voice of the trees, the voice that is heard in the drum, the lute, and the flute. In that he offers the staff of the initiated, he wins speech. The (staff) is of Udumbara wood; the, Udumbara is strength; verily he wins strength. It is level with his mouth; verily from the mouth (downwards) he wins strength for him. Therefore from the mouth they enjoy strength [1]. After the buying of the Soma he hands the staff to the Maitravaruna (priest). For the Maitravaruna first assigns to the priests their utterance, and the priests plant it in the sacrificer. 'Hail! with my mind the sacrifice', he says; for man approaches the sacrifice with his mind. 'Hail! from heaven and earth', he says; for the sacrifice is in heaven and earth. 'Hail! from the broad atmosphere', he says; for the sacrifice is in the atmosphere. 'Hail! from the wind the sacrifice I grasp', he says [2]. The sacrifice is he who blows here; verily he clearly wins him. He clenches his fist; he restrains his speech, for the support of the sacrifice. 'This Brahman has consecrated himself', he says thrice in a whisper; verily he proclaims him to the gods. Thrice aloud (he says it); verily he proclaims him to both gods and men. He should not utter speech until the Naksatras appear. If he were to utter speech before the Naksatras appear, he would divide the sacrifice [3]. When the Naksatras have arisen, be utters speech, 'Prepare the fast food.' The consecrated is bound by a vow of sacrifice; verily with regard to the sacrifice does he utter speech. Should he utter speech, he should then repeat a Rc addressed to Visnu. Visnu is the sacrifice; verily he unites the sacrifice with the sacrifice. 'The thought divine we meditate', he says. Thus he makes smooth the sacrifice. 'May it guide us safely according as we will', he says. Verily he wins the dawn [4]. The theologians say, 'Should an offering be made in the house of one who is consecrated, or should an offering not be made?' The man who is consecrated is the oblation, and if he were to sacrifice he would offer a part of the sacrificer; if he were not to sacrifice, then he would omit a joint of the sacrifice. 'The gods, mind born, mind using', he says. The gods, mind born, mind using, are the breaths; verily in them he sacrifices secretly, and the sacrifice is both offered as it were and yet not offered. Now the Raksases are fain to hurt him who is consecrated while he sleeps. Agni [5] indeed is the slayer of the Raksases. 'O Agni, be thou wakeful. Let us be glad', he says; verily having made Agni his guardian, for the smiting away of the Raksases, he sleeps. Now, if a man who is consecrated sleeps, he does something that as it were is contrary to his vow. I Thou, O Agni, art the guardian of vows', he says. Agni indeed is among the gods the guardian of vows; verily he causes him to take up his vow again. 'Among the gods and men', he says for he, being a god [6], is (guardian of vows) among men. 'Thou art to be invoked at our sacrifices', he says; for him they invoke at the sacrifices. Now power and the gods depart from the man who is consecrated when he is asleep. 'All the gods have surrounded me', he says; verily he unites him with both power and the gods. If he were not to utter that formula (Yajus), so many cattle would be as he might consecrate himself for. 'O Soma, give so much [7] and bear more hither', he says; verily he obtains innumerable cattle. 'Thou art gold; be for my enjoyment', he says; verily he takes each according to its deity. He says, 'To Vayu thee, to Varuna thee!' If he did not so specify them, he would put the gifts out of correspondence with the deities, and would be brought low to the deities. Because he thus specifies them, he puts the gifts in correspondence with the deities, and is not brought low to the deities. 'O divine waters, son of the waters', he says. 'That divine part of yours, which is pure and fit for the sacrifice, may I not step upon', that he says in effect. 'The unbroken web of earth may I follow', he says; verily making a bridge he crosses over.

    vi. 1. 7.

    That became gold. Therefore they purify gold forth from the waters. The theologians say, 'How is it that offspring are produced through that which is boneless, and yet are born with bones?' Because he offers the gold, placing it in the ghee, therefore are offspring produced, through that which is boneless, and yet are born with bones. The ghee is Agni's loved abode, the gold, is radiance. 'This is thy body, O pure one. This is thy splendour', he says; verily he unites Agni with his radiance and his body [1]; verily also he makes him ready. If he were to deposit (the gold) without fastening it on, then the foetuses of offspring would be liable to miscarriage. He deposits it fastening it on, to secure the foetuses. He fastens it so that it cannot be untied, for the production of offspring. The cow with which the Soma is bought is speech. 'Thou art the strong', he says; for what he strengthens in his mind, that he expresses in speech. 'Grasped by mind', he says; for by mind is speech grasped. 'Acceptable to Visnu he says [2]. Visnu is the sacrifice; verily be makes her accept able to the sacrifice. 'Through the impulse of thee, of true impulse', he says; verily he wins speech which is impelled by Savitr. As each part is performed, the Raksases are fain to injure the sacrifice; the path of Agni and Surya is one which the Raksases cannot injure. 'I have mounted the eye of the sun, the pupil of the eye of Agni', he says. He mounts the path which is not injured by the Raksases [3]. The cow with which the Soma is bought is speech. 'Thou art thought, thou art mind', he says; verily he instructs her. Therefore children are born instructed. 'Thou art thought', he says, for what one thinks in the mind one expresses in speech. 'Thou art mind', he says; for what one grasps by the mind one performs. 'Thou art meditation', he says; for what one meditates with the mind one expresses in speech [4]. 'Thou art the gift (to the priests)', he says; for (the cow) is the gift. 'Thou art of the sacrifice', he says; verily he makes her fit for the sacrifice. 'Thou art of kingly power', he says, for she is of kingly power. 'Thou art Aditi, double-headed', he says. In that to Aditi belong the opening and the concluding oblations of the sacrifices, therefore does he say that. If (the cow) were not bound, she would be unrestrained; if she were bound by the foot, she would be the funeral cow, and the sacrificer would be likely to perish [5]. If she were held by the ears, she would belong to Vrtrahan, and the sacrificer would oppress another, or another would oppress him. 'May Mitra bind thee by the foot', he says. Mitra is the auspicious one of the gods; verily with his help he binds her by the foot. 'May Pusan guard the ways', he says. Pusan is this (earth); verily he makes her lady of this (earth), for the gaining thereof. 'For Indra the guardian!' he says; verily he makes Indra her guardian [6]. 'May thy mother approve, thy father', he says; verily he buys with her approved. 'Go, O goddess, to the god', he says; for she is a goddess, and Soma is a god. 'To Indra Soma', he says; for the Soma is borne to Indra. If he were not to say that text, the cow with which the Soma is bought would go away. 'May Rudra guide thee hither', he says. Rudra is the harsh [7] one of the gods; verily he places him below her, for guiding hither. He does as it were a harsh thing when he recites that (text) of Rudra's. 'In the path of Mitra', he says, for soothing. He buys indeed by speech when he buys by the cow with which the Soma is bought. Hail! Return with Soma as thy comrade, with wealth', he says, verily having purchased by means of speech, he restores speech to himself. The speech of him who knows thus is not likely to fail.

    vi. 2. 1.

    If he should offer hospitality after unyoking both (the oxen), he would break up the sacrifice. If (he should offer) before he has unyoked both, it would be as when hospitality is offered to one who has not yet arrived. One ox is unyoked, one ox is not unyoked; then he offers hospitality, for the continuance of the sacrifice. The wife (of the sacrificer) holds on (to the cart); for the wife is mistress of the household gear; verily he offers what is approved by the wife. The share of the wife in the sacrifice makes a pair; so the wife also [1] grasps the sacrifice that it may not be interrupted. With whatever retinue the king comes, to all of them hospitality is offered; the metres are the retinue of King Soma. 'Thou art the hospitality of Agni. For Visnu thee!' he says; thus he offers (hospitality) to the Gayatri. 'Thou art the hospitality of Soma. 'For Visnu thee!' he says; thus he offers (hospitality) to the Tristubh. 'Thou art the hospitality of the stranger. For Visnu thee!' he says; thus he offers (hospitality) to the Jagati [2]. 'For Agni thee, giver of wealth, for Visnu thee!' he says; thus he offers (hospitality) to the Anustubh. 'For the eagle, bringer of the Soma, thee, for Visnu thee!' he says; thus he offers (hospitality) to the Gayatri. He offers five times. The Pankti has five syllables, the sacrifice is fivefold; verily he wins the sacrifice. The theologians say, 'For what reason is the Gayatri offered to on either side of the offering of hospitality?' Because the Gayatri brought the Soma down [3]; therefore is it offered to on both sides of hospitality, before and after. Hospitality is the head of the sacrifice, the sacrificial cake is offered on nine potsherds, therefore the head has nine apertures. The sacrificial cake is offered on nine potsherds. The three sets of three potsherds are commensurate with the Trivrt Stoma, the Trivrt is brilliance; verily he places brilliance in the head of the sacrifice. The sacrificial cake is offered on nine potsherds. The three sets of three potsherds are commensurate with the threefold breath, the breath is threefold [4]; verily in order he places the threefold breath in the head of the sacrifice. Now the Saccharum spontaneum shoots are the eyelashes of Prajapati, and his lids are pieces of sugar-cane. In that the strew is of Saccharum spontaneum and the dividing-stakes of sugar-cane, verily he brings together the eye of Prajapati. Now the libations made by the gods the Asuras tore and ate. The gods saw the Gmelina arborea tree. (Thinking) 'It is fit for work; by it one can perform work', they made the enclosing sticks of Gmelina arborea wood [5], and by them they smote away the Raksases. In that the enclosing-sticks are made of Gmelina arborea wood, it is for the smiting away of the Raksases. He makes them touch, that the Raksases may not go through them. He does not place one in front, for the sun which rises in front smites away the Raksases. He places the kindling-sticks erect; verily from above he smites away the Raksases; (he places one) with a Yajus, the other in silence, to make a pair. He places two; the sacrifice has two feet; (verily they serve) for support. The theologians say [6], 'There are both Agni and Soma here; why is hospitality offered to Soma and not to Agni?' In that having kindled fire he places it on the fire, by that verily is hospitality offered to Agni. Or rather they say, 'Agni is all the gods.' In that he kindles fire after placing the oblation, he thus produces all the gods for the oblation when it has been placed.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  4. #24
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    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~


    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by SanathanaDharma View Post
    ...the first few lines clearly state that He is vishwa[Universe],
    Let me offer this point of view for one's consideration...

    Viśva is defined as all-pervading or all-containing , omnipresent ; whole , entire , universal. The idea here is universal (an adjective ) = including or covering all or a whole collectively or distributively without limit or exception.
    Universe ( a noun) = the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated.
    The difference is slight, yet it brings a better appreciation ( for me) on just how full (pūrṇa) nārāyaṇa is.

    The point is, one could argue that I exist in the universe but I am not the universe. This is not the case with nārāyaṇa as He is within and without.

    Why would one even care ? It is due to the name nārāyaṇa.
    nār +āya + a can be looked at in mutiple ways...let me offer one :


    nāra + āya + ṇa
    • nāra = relating to or proceeding from men , human , mortal ( note nār below)
    • āya =arrival , approach
    • ṇa = nirvṛti = emancipation , mokṣa, liberation or nirvāṇa ; it too is behind the etymology of kriṣṇa
    So what does this nāra + āya + ṇa disection tell us ? Humans are going in the direction of (ayana) ṇa , which is mokṣa, which is none other then the abode of nārāyaṇa.


    praṇām


    words
    • nār is the vṛddhi form of nṛ which is defined as mankind.
      • vṛddhi is the second modification or increase of vowels which they are subjected to under certain conditions: ā is the vṛddhi form of the vowel 'a'; ai is the vṛddhi form of i ; ī is the vṛddhi form of e , etc.
    • ayana - way , progress , manner ; course, direction; place of refuge
    Last edited by yajvan; 29 November 2012 at 06:25 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #25
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    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    Deity Vishnu/NArAyaNa is the Brahman of upanishads according to following scriptural statements, yukthi.

    1. Brahman of upanishads is jagath karana tattvam -
    shruthi delcares it as "yatho vaa imani bhootani jayante..".

    2. Brahman of upanishads is ultimate goal to be achieved by jeevas-

    Shruthi declares it as "Brahmavit apnothi param" .

    3. Brahman of upanishads is ubhayalinga i.e apahata papma (one who is beyond karma binds), ananta kalyana gunaatmaka - Sruthi declares it as "aphatapapma, vijaro , vimruthyu.." "satyakama, satya sankalpa" , "satyam,jananam , anantam" , "anando brahma"

    4. Brahman of upanishads is beyond the limitations

    "aprapya manasa saha"

    5. Brahman of upanishads is sarva vyaapi

    "antarbhihscha tat sarvam vyaapya"

    6. Brahman of upanishads has his own divya mangala vigraha

    "tasya yadha kapyaasam pundareekamevamakshinee"
    "nakshtraani roopam"


    Now these all features(svarupa,rupa,guna,vibhuti) are present in the diety Vishnu according to shruthi,smruthi,itihaasa,puranas.

    1. jagath karana tattvam - "Ekohavai NArAyaNAaseeth na brahma nesanaha" - categorically denies the existence of other deities in the beginning and existence of only NArAyaNa is established fact and evidence for NArAyaNa as jagath karana tattvam.

    "Brahma pradhama sambhabhoova" etc., sruthi vakyaas declare Chaturmukha Brahma is first born being , these are well explained by puranaas.

    2. Moksha or ultimate goal to be achieved

    "So dhvanaha paaramapnothi tadvishnoh paramam padam" - says it is the Vishnu's parama padam will be achieved by them as liberation from samsara. Ofcourse it is not a material world .

    And all other material worlds are perishable , so by meditating or doing upasana to other deities..people can go to the particular deity..but those places are perishable , not treated as moksha, same is clearly established in Gita
    "Devaan deva yajo yanti, madbhakta yanti mamapi" , "Abrhma bhuvanah loka punaravarthino arjuna" .

    3. Apahata Papmatva and Ananta KalyAna gunakaratva

    NArAyana is the only deity who doesn't have any karma and full of auspicious attributes

    "Yesha sarva bhutantaratma apahatapapma divyo deva Eko NArAyaNa"

    4. Vishnu is unlimited, beyond comprehension

    "anantamavyayam kavigum samudrentam viSvaSambhuvam"

    His nature as Ananta is well explained in puranas.

    5. Sarva vyaapakatvam:

    Vishnu the name itself refers his nature of pervasion, and sruthi declares it in clear terms

    "antarbahischa tatsarvam vyapya narayana stithaha"
    Gita declares "mayi sarvamidam protham suthre mani gana iva"

    6. Vishnu is divya mangala vigraha pushta

    The same concept revealed by upanishads as "Pundareekam evamakshinee" is elaborated in puranas , Vishnu as pundareekaksha and his form as so beautiful and so blissful.


    So all the features of Brahman can be seen in Vishnu and Vishnu alone..





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    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    A Vaishnava commentary on the Purusha Sukta

    http://www.srimatham.com/storage/doc...commentary.pdf
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

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    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    Some are trying to religate the supremacy of Vishnu by quoting some unauthenticated quotes like below:

    "Paraatparato Brahma, Tat Paraatparato Harihi, Tat Paraatparato Sambhuhu"

    Seers know the position of Hari , they start the Veda pathana by "Harih Om".

    Do we know more than Veda Vyasa who declared "alodhya sarva sastrani punaha punah, idamekam sunishpannam dhyeyo nArAyaNa sada".

    It is sheer ignorance to say there is some other deity higher than Hari..

    "Mattha paratharam nAnyath" ..

    This is simple fact that..any quote can be valid only when it is not in contradiction with athenticated principal upanishads and few verses of other upanishads quoted by our purvacharyas(Shankara,Ramanuja,Madhva)..and BS, Gita (which are part of prasthana trayi).

    Without looking at samanvaya , mere babbling of various quotes is useless since the same quotes then will be in contradiction with other valid scriptures.

    "nathe vishnO jAyamAnO na jatho deva mahimnaha paramantamaap"(RV VII.99.2)

    Veda declares it that Vishnu is inconceivable by any one even by devas..and still some people try to say that some thing higher than Hari is present..how pity!

    May god bless all and may god show the path of "Vishnoh paramam padam" to all !

  8. #28
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    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    Quote Originally Posted by sanathan View Post
    Some are trying to religate the supremacy of Vishnu by quoting some unauthenticated quotes like below:

    "Paraatparato Brahma, Tat Paraatparato Harihi, Tat Paraatparato Sambhuhu"

    It is sheer ignorance to say there is some other deity higher than Hari..

    "Mattha paratharam nAnyath" ..

    This is simple fact that..any quote can be valid only when it is not in contradiction with athenticated principal upanishads and few verses of other upanishads quoted by our purvacharyas(Shankara,Ramanuja,Madhva)..and BS, Gita (which are part of prasthana trayi).

    Without looking at samanvaya , mere babbling of various quotes is useless since the same quotes then will be in contradiction with other valid scriptures.

    "nathe vishnO jAyamAnO na jatho deva mahimnaha paramantamaap"(RV VII.99.2)

    Veda declares it that Vishnu is inconceivable by any one even by devas..and still some people try to say that some thing higher than Hari is present..how pity!

    May god bless all and may god show the path of "Vishnoh paramam padam" to all !
    May I ask what makes my quote "unauthenticated"? It is part of the Rig Veda Khila,which is accepted as Shruti by everyone.The Sri Sukta is also from the Rig Veda Khila too.Will you reject that? All the three veda commentators, Sayana,Mahidara and Uvata have commented on this sukta and accepted it as part of the vedas.If you reject the Rig Veda Khila,you are a nastika.As simple as that.

    Please note that the Maha Upanishad is not accepted by non-Vaishnavas.Also,any Vaishnava quoting the Maha Upanishad to prove supremacy of Sriman Narayana must first answer why the upanishad later taljs about the creation of Vishnu and why it says Vishnu is destroyed at pralaya.Also,why do Vaishnavas reject jeevanmukti while the Maha upanishad supports it?Why do Vaishnavas reject vivarta vada when the Maha Upanishad supports it?

    Also,my quote was posted on another thread.Why are you derailing this thread by bringing in external discussion here?

    Also,you refer to unauthenricated verses quoted by me in plural.Please point out which other verses you think are unauthentixated and why you think so.
    Last edited by Omkara; 02 December 2012 at 12:47 AM.
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    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    Quote Originally Posted by Omkara View Post
    May I ask what makes my quote "unauthenticated"? It is part of the Rig Veda Khila,which is accepted as Shruti by everyone.The Sri Sukta is also from the Rig Veda Khila too.Will you reject that? All the three veda commentators, Sayana,Mahidara and Uvata have commented on this sukta and accepted it as part of the vedas.If you reject the Rig Veda Khila,you are a nastika.As simple as that.

    Please note that the Maha Upanishad is not accepted by non-Vaishnavas.Also,any Vaishnava quoting the Maha Upanishad to prove supremacy of Sriman Narayana must first answer why the upanishad later taljs about the creation of Vishnu and why it says Vishnu is destroyed at pralaya.Also,why do Vaishnavas reject jeevanmukti while the Maha upanishad supports it?Why do Vaishnavas reject vivarta vada when the Maha Upanishad supports it?

    Also,my quote was posted on another thread.Why are you derailing this thread by bringing in external discussion here?

    Also,you refer to unauthenricated verses quoted by me in plural.Please point out which other verses you think are unauthentixated and why you think so.
    You can open a new thread to discuss all these matters, since this thread is to show valid vedic statements related to Vishnu, I have refuted some of your unauthentic quotes.

    Logic is simple, whatever you quote as Vedic statement, can not become so ..it should have authenticity i.e should have been used by any one of the authentic lineage and should not be in contradiction with prasthana trayi.

    There are huge number of fabricated texts , you know those more than me.

    So anyone who seriously seeking to know TRUTH will first take the principal upanishads and other 2 sources of prasthana trayi.


    Regarding your sources from Sayana,Mahidhara etc., are not authentic..just because they are in contradiction with above said well authentic sources.

    If you don't know it already..check with any lineage which follow the tradition since centuries.

    "Dayananda rejected the older commentaries of the Vedas by Sayana, Mahidhara and Uvata as medieval corruptions "

    Quotes you have shown from Maha Upanishad are not authentic as well, reason is very simple .. it can not contradict with itself .. the authentic lines are those which were quoted by purvacharyas.

    You are always missing one simple point that..every thing and any thing you quote as vedic can not become so unless it is not in contradiction with well established,authentic principal upanishads,BS, BG.

    "Tadvishnoh paramam padam sada pasyanti surayaha"

    And now you are trying to say that Vishnu is destroyed by putting some unauthenticated quote(its contradiction with an authentic quote proves its fabricated nature).

    Or if you can show someother meaning to Vishnu other than the deity who is all pervading and called as para tattvam. (NArAyaNa param brahma tattvam, NArAyaNa paraha).

    Don't try to religate Vishnu as created and destroyed being with your ignorance.

    Krishna rightly said it in BG "avajAnanti maam mudhaha".

    First read Shankara's BS bhashya , his Brihadaranyaka bhashya, BG bhashya etc., and come with valid pramanas what he said about NArAyaNa..

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    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    The so called Maha Upanishad's quotes which talsk about Vishnu's origination and destruction, Jeevanmukthi etc., never refuted by Vaishnava acharyas as purva paksha..that means these were not known to them, and later additions by some fanatics is well proved.

    Vaishnava traditional acharyas quoted and refuted many purva paksha's arguments which can be considered authentic..and been there since then. Others which are coming newly and not refuted in older texts surely are of the nature of fabricated..don't know why this simple logic can not be grased by our friends.

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