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Thread: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

  1. #31
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    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    Nothing can be proved newly, all was done and established long back..

    But no one condemns the upasana of any deity, it is the thing that is established is "parattva of nArAyaNa".

    If some body wants to prove some thing now, they have to rely on same scriptures used by our ancients..not the new quotes and texts which were never used by any authentic traditional acharyas.

    The great advaitin Scholar Sri Appayya Dikshita tried to prove that all synonyms of Vishnu are infact Shiva's names. But the word NArAyaNa, due to the strict grammatical rules in
    sanskrit made it impossible for him to prove what he set about. And he exclaimed "Nathvam baadhathe". Ah, this Nakaara troubles!!


    Please go through his works..and his exclamation about word "NArAyaNa" !

    And now people coming newly to prove that "nArAyaNa" as created and destroyed deity..how pity!

    O NArAyaNa! ..save these people.



  2. #32
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    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by sanathan View Post
    ..it should have authenticity i.e should have been used by any one of the authentic lineage
    From the āptamanujaprokta i.e. written or said by those that are trustworthy. Such as muni vaikhānasa-ji who passed his insights to bhṛgu, marīci and the like.

    praām
    words
    • āptamanujaprokta
      • āpta = received , got , gained , obtained ; full , complete.
      • manu = man, the thinking man, wise, intelligent
      • jap = to call, invoke
      • ra = acquiring
      • ukta = uttered, word
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #33

    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    Gentlemen (and ladies), please be nice. I want that this thread should have an auspicious feel to it considering the subject matter.
    Last edited by philosoraptor; 03 December 2012 at 11:12 AM.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  4. #34
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    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    One has to do a lot of reinterpretation to equate Brahman with the specific deity of Vishnu. Brahman is usually accepted as the unconditioned state of consciousness, so I am not sure that one can give it personality or form.

    Also, deities refer to different conditioned states, which is why in Veda we see different devas beings praised at different times. So it would be reasonable to conclude that the supreme would be beyond all these names and forms.

  5. #35
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    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    Quote Originally Posted by sanathan View Post
    You can open a new thread to discuss all these matters, since this thread is to show valid vedic statements related to Vishnu, I have refuted some of your unauthentic quotes.
    You were the one who brought in an irrelevant topic of dicussion to this thread.You are simply beating around the bush without explaining why you consider quotes from a universally accepted pramana like the rig veda as unauthentic.


    Quote Originally Posted by sanathan View Post
    Logic is simple, whatever you quote as Vedic statement, can not become so ..it should have authenticity i.e should have been used by any one of the authentic lineage and should not be in contradiction with prasthana trayi.
    Shaivas are not vedantins and do not claim to be vedantins.So we do not accept the prasthanatrayi, or rather specifically the Bhagavad Gita.The quote I used has bewn cited way back in the eleventh century by the Shaiva Acharya Srikantha.But I presume by autgentic lineages you mean specifically Vaishnava lineages.What a wonderful exampke of circular reasoning.Also, a shruti quote is a shruti quote,whether it has been quoted before or not.You apparently seem to feel that shruti quotes which contradict other quotes,or rather your interpretation of other quotes must be thrown away.

    Quote Originally Posted by sanathan View Post
    First read Shankara's BS bhashya , his Brihadaranyaka bhashya, BG bhashya etc., and come with valid pramanas what he said about NArAyaNa..
    As I am not a follower of Shankara,may I aak what this statement is supposed to mean?That I should accept vishnu sarvottamatva based on his autority?Then why don't you accept Advaita first?
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
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  6. #36
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    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    Quote Originally Posted by sanathan View Post
    The so called Maha Upanishad's quotes which talsk about Vishnu's origination and destruction, Jeevanmukthi etc., never refuted by Vaishnava acharyas as purva paksha..that means these were not known to them, and later additions by some fanatics is well proved.

    Vaishnava traditional acharyas quoted and refuted many purva paksha's arguments which can be considered authentic..and been there since then. Others which are coming newly and not refuted in older texts surely are of the nature of fabricated..don't know why this simple logic can not be grased by our friends.
    Thus is so ridiculous that I am not going to dignify it with a reply.
    Last edited by Omkara; 04 December 2012 at 03:10 AM.
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

  7. #37
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    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    Quote Originally Posted by sanathan View Post
    Nothing can be proved newly, all was done and established long back..

    But no one condemns the upasana of any deity, it is the thing that is established is "parattva of nArAyaNa".

    If some body wants to prove some thing now, they have to rely on same scriptures used by our ancients..not the new quotes and texts which were never used by any authentic traditional acharyas.

    The great advaitin Scholar Sri Appayya Dikshita tried to prove that all synonyms of Vishnu are infact Shiva's names. But the word NArAyaNa, due to the strict grammatical rules in
    sanskrit made it impossible for him to prove what he set about. And he exclaimed "Nathvam baadhathe". Ah, this Nakaara troubles!!


    Please go through his works..and his exclamation about word "NArAyaNa" !

    And now people coming newly to prove that "nArAyaNa" as created and destroyed deity..how pity!

    O NArAyaNa! ..save these people.


    How is this relevant to the authenticity of my quote?
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

  8. #38
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    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    Quote Originally Posted by sanathan View Post
    There are huge number of fabricated texts , you know those more than me.
    How is a text from the Rig Veda 'fabricated'?

    Quote Originally Posted by sanathan View Post
    Regarding your sources from Sayana,Mahidhara etc., are not authentic..just because they are in contradiction with above said well authentic sources.

    If you don't know it already..check with any lineage which follow the tradition since centuries.

    "Dayananda rejected the older commentaries of the Vedas by Sayana, Mahidhara and Uvata as medieval corruptions "
    The above sentence makes no sense whatsoever.What exacly are you trying to say? That the above mentioned three commentators did not comment on the vedas,or that they commented on fraudulent verses?And why bring a neo hindu guru in here? FYI,dayananda has commented on the verses in question too.
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

  9. #39
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    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    Gentlemen (and ladies), please be nice. I want that this thread should have an auspicious feel to it considering the subject matter.

    I apologize for the mudslinging that is going on in this thread.In my opinion the blame for this should go to those who reject shruti as 'unauthentic' when it does not agree with their views and decide to rant about it in untelared threads.Perhaps the moderator should move the entire argument to another thread.
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

  10. #40
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    Re: nArAyaNa in the veda-s

    Namaste Omkara & sanathan,
    Perhaps the moderator should move the entire argument to another thread.
    Minus the (heated) exchanges, this thread is very informative to illiterates like me.

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