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Thread: Woman Dies After Denied Abortion - Cenk on 'Morality'

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    Woman Dies After Denied Abortion - Cenk on 'Morality'

    Why are you unhappy? Because 99.9 per cent Of everything you think, And of everything you do, Is for yourself —And there isn't one

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    Re: Woman Dies After Denied Abortion - Cenk on 'Morality'

    Cenk Uygur is a far left hack of the Democrats. So, no need to take his view on "morality" as anything more privileged than someone else's. In fact, I would critically analyze his opinions on many issues to make sure they are unbiased and non-partisan. As these things go, party hacks seem to suspend independent thinking and instead tend to tag along with the party line regardless of how ludicrous some of these opinions may be - and this tends to happen both on the left as well as the right.

    In any case, the issue of abortion raises an interesting question.

    Where does life begin and where does it end? Why?

    Is one type of life more precious than another?

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    Re: Woman Dies After Denied Abortion - Cenk on 'Morality'

    Is this the first time this has happened in Ireland?

    The Irish law states that abortion is not prohibited when the life of the mother is in danger. If Irish doctors were routinely denying women abortion in times in such situations, I would suspect more of these deaths happening. A xenophobic attitude towards a Hindu woman from India might have played a role in the physicians' decision not to deviate from their Christian morality, while they might have done the procedure for their regular Catholic patients in the same situation if they had the opportunity to save a Christian life. Otherwise, it is hard to explain why such deaths have not occurred more often.
    Last edited by Sahasranama; 15 November 2012 at 07:43 AM.

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    Re: Woman Dies After Denied Abortion - Cenk on 'Morality'

    Namasté,

    Sahasranama, it's estimated that up to half of all fertilized eggs are spontaneously aborted before there's even knowledge of pregnancy; among women who know they're pregnant, the rate is 15-20%. The vast majority of miscarriages occur in the first seven weeks and usually are not attended by these awful complications. So this sort of situation may not happen more often simply because it's quite uncommon.

    Yes, the law says "when the mother's life is in danger"; unfortunately that part is open to the interpretation of individual doctors, who then have to justify their actions in cases of termination. (Not just in Ireland, by the way.) And the life-threatening complications of septic abortion often occur because no medical procedure is done, as was the case here.

    Sky God morality in action, indeed.
    Last edited by Arjuni; 15 November 2012 at 08:45 AM.
    "What was, what is, what will be: I am That." -from Bāṣkalamantra Upaniṣad

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    Re: Woman Dies After Denied Abortion - Cenk on 'Morality'

    Thanks for the statistics, but in a population of over 6 million people it is likely that it would happen occasionally. I think it is suspect that the woman was a Hindu foreigner and this might have influenced how the doctors interpreted the law.

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    Re: Woman Dies After Denied Abortion - Cenk on 'Morality'

    I agree. I find it especially telling that the woman explained she wasn't Catholic, and was told that the law was.

    The case is especially horrifying, because the last day she was conscious was spent vomiting and in terrible pain. I wonder if they also denied her strong painkillers as a threat to the fetus?

    And now that poor man, her husband, has to cope not only with the deaths of his wife and hoped-for child, but with her becoming the center of a national controversy about abortion law.

    Awful, awful. If you're going to take one religion's vague, inhumane morality as a guideline to medicine, why even have a hospital at all? That is, if pregnancy is "God's will" and shouldn't be interfered with despite glaring indications that it's a disaster, then why not just decide that hacksaw injuries, migraine headaches, and gangrene are also God's will, and shut the hospital down?

    Edited to add: one is ministered to, in a hospital, according to one's religion. One's body is treated after death according to religion. Why should the preservation of one's life be subject to a different religion?
    "What was, what is, what will be: I am That." -from Bāṣkalamantra Upaniṣad

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    Re: Woman Dies After Denied Abortion - Cenk on 'Morality'

    Vannakkam: I have observed a couple of things going on in hospitals ... still, this is Canada, not Ireland, and Indraneela knows more than me, but still.

    1) Immigrants often have a language barrier, and hospitals, either purposefully, or for lack of funds, don't go out of their way to accommodate the barrier.

    2) Because of 1, and just in general, individual rights are not known. For example, here you can just walk out. Sign a note saying you're responsible for your actions, so you later can't sue them, give it to the chief nurse, and walk out. It's your right. But hospitals don't advertise that one either.

    Yes, this one is particularly sad.

    As for The God in the sky overruling, put as much as you can in writing beforehand. Right to refuse 'keep them alive at all costs' syndrome is another. Get a personal directive clearly written up.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Woman Dies After Denied Abortion - Cenk on 'Morality'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    Thanks for the statistics, but in a population of over 6 million people it is likely that it would happen occasionally. I think it is suspect that the woman was a Hindu foreigner and this might have influenced how the doctors interpreted the law.
    Although we don't know the circumstances this is quite likely. When I read stories like this my only question is how is west still ahead. But southern America or catholic Ireland may not be good examples to measure out west in general.
    Why are you unhappy? Because 99.9 per cent Of everything you think, And of everything you do, Is for yourself —And there isn't one

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    Re: Woman Dies After Denied Abortion - Cenk on 'Morality'

    Quote Originally Posted by wundermonk View Post

    Is one type of life more precious than another?
    Simple, it helps more in survival of the species in one case. But this interesting moral question was not my point of the post

    The example just shows the problem of relying on book morality [whether coming from a left wing or a right wing book, written by a sky god or an underverse god] instead of common sense. Book morality let both life die, one enduring severe torture. Common sense would have saved one of them.
    Why are you unhappy? Because 99.9 per cent Of everything you think, And of everything you do, Is for yourself —And there isn't one

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    Re: Woman Dies After Denied Abortion - Cenk on 'Morality'

    Quote Originally Posted by wundermonk View Post
    Cenk Uygur is a far left hack of the Democrats. So, no need to take his view on "morality" as anything more privileged than someone else's. In fact, I would critically analyze his opinions on many issues to make sure they are unbiased and non-partisan. As these things go, party hacks seem to suspend independent thinking and instead tend to tag along with the party line regardless of how ludicrous some of these opinions may be - and this tends to happen both on the left as well as the right.
    Sorry, the thread title was born out of lazy copy pasting. Idea was not to present Cenk's opinion but the story about the woman.

    As for Cenk, I find myself agreeing with him 90% of time, but that's me. His liberalism or his Turkish background hasn't definitely helped him to give an unbiased commentary on Islam and Muslims. But on other things I would not have much reasons to disagree with him.
    Why are you unhappy? Because 99.9 per cent Of everything you think, And of everything you do, Is for yourself —And there isn't one

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