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Thread: jnana yoga

  1. #11
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    Re: jnana yoga

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~


    namast

    devotee writes,

    Indulging in any act for sensual pleasure will lead to misery in the long run as it is taking you away from God.

    I am going to ask the reader for their patience and some additional leaway for this next piece of information to develop.
    It is a good place to talk of something that is a bit more subtle, a bit more hidden from view of one's daily experience. If this does not resonate with you at this time and place, not to worry. It will at some point in your life.


    One must understand , at the end of the day , all interactions of the senses within the world, within the universe, is ~sensual~. It is how the Self (ātman), that which is infinite, experiences the finite.

    Within kaśmir śaivism one might call this kāma-kalā - the conjunction of two. This conjunction of two can mean the eyes united with form (seeing an object), the fingers united with an object ( touch), the ear united with a sound ( hearing). Do you see this kāma-kalā - the conjunction of two ? As you see, we walk on this earth and within the human condition, we are in a continual state of sensual interaction. Many within the human condition seem to gravitate to the notion of sexual congress as the 'conjunction of two', yet even if one is on the path of the celibate, this conjunction of two occurs if we are engaged with the senses as the apparatus that is used ( by the Self) to experience the world.


    But where is this misery that devotee points to in his post ? It is when there is no distinction between the senses and the ultimate perceiver, the Self (ātman) ; then one is caught up as it were in ignorance. This one thought has caused many a person to run away to a cave for the desire to rid one's self of all these ~sensual~ things. While a cave may give one the attention and solitude for spiritual practice this kāma-kalā - the conjunction of two , still persists in a cave or in a sub-way or a high-rise building if the Self is not personally experienced and within one's Being. How so ?

    Because the senses act , they do as they are designed to do. To bring the world of form (rūpa), taste (rasa), sound (śabda), touch (sparśa) and smell (gandha) to the formless Self (ātman).

    Well then , are we doomed to being locked in this world of the senses ? Not at all. In ignorance, they bind us , in freedom and enlightenment they are a joy.

    praṇām

    1. ignorance (moha) of what ? Not directly knowing one's true Self, one's true Being, that is non-different from the Supreme.
    Last edited by yajvan; 19 November 2012 at 10:39 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #12

    Re: jnana yoga

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari? o?
    ~~~~~~


    namast

    devotee writes,


    I am going to ask the reader for their patience and some additional leaway for this next piece of information to develop.
    It is a good place to talk of something that is a bit more subtle, a bit more hidden from view of one's daily experience. If this does not resonate with you at this time and place, not to worry. It will at some point in your life.


    One must understand , at the end of the day , all interactions of the senses within the world, within the universe, is ~sensual~. It is how the Self (?tman), that which is infinite, experiences the finite.

    Within ka?mir ?aivism one might call this k?ma-kal? - the conjunction of two. This conjunction of two can mean the the eyes united with form (seeing an object), the fingers united with an object ( touch), the ear united with a sound ( hearing). Do you see this k?ma-kal? - the conjunction of two ? As you see, we walk on this earth and within the human condition, we are in a continual state of sensual interaction. Many within the human condition seem to gravitate to the notion of sexual congress as the 'conjunction of two', yet even if one is on the path of the celibate, this conjunction of two occurs if we are engaged with the senses as the apparatus that is used ( by the Self) to experience the world.


    But where is this misery that devotee points to in his post ? It is when there is no distinction between the senses and the ultimate perceiver, the Self (?tman) ; then one is caught up as it were in ignorance. This one thought has caused many a person to run away to a cave for the desire to rid one's self of all these ~sensual~ things. While a cave may give one the attention and solitude for spiritual practice this k?ma-kal? - the conjunction of two , still persists in a cave or in a sub-way or a high-rise building if the Self is not personally experienced and within one's Being. How so ?

    Because the senses act , they do as they are designed to do. To bring the world of form (r?pa), taste (rasa), sound (?abda), touch (spar?a) and smell (gandha) to the formless Self (?tman).

    Well then , are we doomed to being locked in this world of the senses ? Not at all. In ignorance, they bind us , in freedom and enlightenment they are a joy.

    pra??m

    1. ignorance (moha) of what ? Not directly knowing one's true Self, one's true Being, that is non-different from the Supreme.
    That is a wonderful post and I do have a question. The mind doesn't experience the Self, the mind clears wrong thoughts, cleanses itself and knowledge of the Self shines through. Is that correct? Because otherwise there would be two perceivers?
    asato ma sad gamaya
    tamaso ma jyotir gamaya
    mrutyor ma amritam gamaya

  3. #13
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    Re: jnana yoga

    Namaste Yajvan,

    That is an excellent piece of post ... with rare deep insight conveyed in so few words !

    I am tempted to again repeat some deep meaning statements made in the above post :

    a)
    all interactions of the senses within the world, within the universe, is ~sensual~.
    b)
    It (the suffering) is when there is no distinction between the senses and the ultimate perceiver, the Self (ātman); then one is caught up as it were in ignorance.
    c)
    In ignorance, they bind us , in freedom and enlightenment they are a joy.


    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  4. #14

    Re: jnana yoga

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    There are two languages: Language of Morality and Language of Immortality. Language of Morality is a language in progress, while Immortal Language is eternal, sanatan.

    Language of Morality is required, for a time being, when the seeker is still evolving. But to make that language into a permanent form, i.e., religion, would be like conceding that Evil also exists, is also real.

    So when in Rig-Veda Varun, the God of Life & Desire, extends his kingdom, starting from Earth, up to Heaven, an "expansion" is implied rather than a "contraction" or a "denial". Marriage itself, in its real essence, is more than a ceremony.
    I've never heard of the language or "morality and immorality" in progress. Could you eloborate a little or on that if you can?

    Bill

  5. #15

    Re: jnana yoga

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Yajvan,

    That is an excellent piece of post ... with rare deep insight conveyed in so few words !

    I am tempted to again repeat some deep meaning statements made in the above post :

    a)

    b)

    c)

    OM
    I know Krishna is called the supreme enjoyer. He knew the 64 forms of making love when it came to Radha. Of course he was not attached and not detached.

    Bill

  6. #16

    Re: jnana yoga

    Quote Originally Posted by billcu View Post
    I've never heard of the language or "morality and immorality" in progress. Could you eloborate a little or on that if you can?

    Bill
    Agni, or the Vaisvanara, is the universal Man, and represents our spiritual self. He is therefore also called Jata Veda, that is, the knower or root of people. It is his struggle to become everything, become Aditi. Aditi is Immortality (not to be misread immorality).

    That struggle is a moral one: when one uses images of "good" and "bad". But that is an incomplete language because the journey is incomplete. Even though the language may look like unchanging, may give comfort.

    Immortal language on the other hand looks like constantly changing, and capable of innumerable forms. But this is also not true; for it is eternal, Sanatana.

    To use other form, Church belongs to morality, Christ to immortality.

    Or, as the famous Gayatri mantra of Rig Veda suggests, there are four realms: Aum (Brahamnaspati), Bhu (Pusan), Bhuvah (Savitar) and Svah (Soma), and the winning of the four is Immortality. Aditi is the sum of the four.

    I think this stuff will be of interest to you.

  7. #17
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    Re: jnana yoga

    Dear billcu

    May I know in what sense you have made this remark "I know Krishna is called the supreme enjoyer" I would also like to know from my advaitin friends as to how they identify Sri Krishna is he Iswara ( sagun brahma with maya) or is he nirgun nirvishes ultimate brahma itself. Do they think that reaching to sri krishna is reaching in turiya state ?

  8. #18

    Re: jnana yoga

    I am most familiar with the gita. I know he and Radha had love interests. And all things beautiful like sunrise and set and so on. I guess Krishna would be the "supreme enjoyer"? I'm not quite sure what the gita means. My gita is from Swami Prabupada.

    Bill

  9. #19
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    Re: jnana yoga

    Namaste Japmala,

    Quote Originally Posted by jopmala View Post
    I would also like to know from my advaitin friends as to how they identify Sri Krishna is he Iswara ( sagun brahma with maya) or is he nirgun nirvishes ultimate brahma itself. Do they think that reaching to sri krishna is reaching in turiya state ?
    Nirguna Brahman when perceived from the state of MAyA is Ishvara. It depends on how the seeker identifies Krishna in his devotion. In Nirguna state, Krishna is called as Krishna only for the sake of convenience for the seeker, as He cannot be called by any name in that state. He is beyond all attributes and forms and even formlessness. He just can't be described or be perceived by mind in his Nirguna state. The Upsnishad says, "From where the words return" ===> which shows the incapability of the words to describe Self/Nirguna Brahman.

    Even if you worship Lord Krishna in form and rupa, his grace one day may take to beyond his form and attributes. It depends upon your bhakti. Ramkrishna Paramhansa was a great devotee of Mother Kaali in he form. Mother Kaali was so real to him that he used to feed her with his own hands and until took food from his hands, he won't eat. However, a stage came when he got stagnated on his spiritual path due to strong attachment to the form and attributes of Mother Kaali. Then he came into contact of Swami Totapuri, a Self-realised monk from Puri order of Shankaracharya. Totapuri taught him the essence of Advaita and asked him to go beyond form of Mother Kaali. However, the same form of Kaali who was everything for him became a hurdle for the time being. Totapuri told him firmly : You must cut the form of Kaali to pieces with the sword of your viveka if it comes on the way to Realisation. That is what Ramkrishna did and he attained Nirvikalpa SamAdhi.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  10. #20

    Re: jnana yoga

    Quote Originally Posted by billcu View Post
    I've never heard of the language or "morality and immorality" in progress. Could you eloborate a little or on that if you can?

    Bill
    Agni, or the Vaisvanara, is the universal Man, and represents our spiritual self. He is therefore also called Jata Veda, that is, the knower or root of people. It is his struggle to become everything, become Aditi. Aditi is Immortality (not to be misread immorality).

    That struggle is a moral one: when one uses images of "good" and "bad". But that is an incomplete language because the journey is incomplete. Even though the language may look like unchanging, may give comfort.

    Immortal language on the other hand looks like constantly changing, and capable of innumerable forms. But this is also not true; for it is eternal, Sanatana.

    To use other form, Church belongs to morality, Christ to immortality.

    Or, as the famous Gayatri mantra of Rig Veda suggests, there are four realms: Aum (Brahamnaspati), Bhu (Pusan), Bhuvah (Savitar) and Svah (Soma), and the winning of the four is Immortality. Aditi is the sum of the four.

    I think this stuff will be of interest to you.

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