jnana yoga

[billcu]

Agni, or the Vaisvanara, is the universal Man, and represents our spiritual self. He is therefore also called Jata Veda, that is, the knower or root of people. It is his struggle to become everything, become Aditi. Aditi is Immortality (not to be misread immorality).

That struggle is a moral one: when one uses images of "good" and "bad". But that is an incomplete language because the journey is incomplete. Even though the language may look like unchanging, may give comfort.

Immortal language on the other hand looks like constantly changing, and capable of innumerable forms. But this is also not true; for it is eternal, Sanatana.

To use other form, Church belongs to morality, Christ to immortality.

Or, as the famous Gayatri mantra of Rig Veda suggests, there are four realms: Aum (Brahamnaspati), Bhu (Pusan), Bhuvah (Savitar) and Svah (Soma), and the winning of the four is Immortality. Aditi is the sum of the four.

I think this stuff will be of interest to you.

This sounds like what the Jews call "Adam Kadmon". The original soul that shattered into so many and that process has continued. Yes this fascinates me.

How do we obtain Krishna's grace? Does a teacher have to give you a sadhanna or something. Must one visit an Ashram to meet the teacher in person?

Bill

[R Gitananda]

I know Krishna is called the supreme enjoyer. He knew the 64 forms of making love when it came to Radha. ...

I'm not quite sure what the gita means.

Namaste

Bill, I am very devoted the Bhagavad Gita but it is not a beginners text and is proscribed for those who are not advanced in devotion.
That may be the source of your confusion. I recommend you start with a nice version of Valmiki's Ramayana.
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...2575#post92575

Hari Aum

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

This sounds like what the Jews call "Adam Kadmon". The original soul that shattered into so many and that process has continued. Yes this fascinates me.

How do we obtain Krishna's grace? Does a teacher have to give you a sadhanna or something. Must one visit an Ashram to meet the teacher in person?

Bill

No, it is not theology. Agni, means literally, "fire", and he himself is a mighty God.

A Deity chooses his own devotee, it is hardly the other way round!

Krishna is an incarnation, of a Deity. So either one can directly connect (via Vedic study and chants) to that particular Deity (called "Aditya", Sarasvati in this case) and become him/her, or one can make some hearty reading of that incarnate's life-story (Mahabharata and Gita in this case).

Beyond this, I guess, we are on our own!

[jopmala]

Namaskar devoteeji

Knowing very well that in nirgun state brahma has no attributes or forms , you are saying that for the sake of the convenience of the seeker even in nirgun state brahma may be called as Krishna. Being incapable to describe by Upanishad how you put any name in nirgun nirakar state for any one sake which obviously carries form also .Is this acceptable to your advaitin friends as well ? . Actually I understand your problem with the name sri Krishna . Once you say Krishna is itself nirgun brahma then you shift and say krishna is sagun iswara. I think you should remember when we talk of sri Krishna , it is all about a particular form ( rupa) and Name with full of attributes which is real and not apparent as evident from Mahabharata and Gita. If Krishna is apparent then Gita is also apparent. Is Vedas apparent ?

I have read your posts in other threads where you mentioned “Iswara is apparent , reflection of the nirgun brahma. Nirgun brahma is achintya and can not be perceived by the power of mind. So mind sees the same nirgun brahma as the iswara. Iswara is unreal from the point of view of Absolute ( turiya).” etc etc .

In this context I am quite eager to know whether you treat sri Krishna as ultimate brahma (turiya) or sagun brahma in the third leaving fourth for ultimate brahma but unfortunately you have not answered straight way. My question is whether advaitin accepts sri Krishna as ultimate brahma ( in turiya) or not .

When I read you it seems to me that brahma is mere mind business only and nothing else. You do not keep both nirgun brahma and sagun brahma ( iswara) at the same level that is to you nirgun brahma is real, ultimate and sagun brahma is apparent and reflection . One is real and another is apparent. I think this is not acceptable to those who respect Gita which put much importance on sagun aspect and less importance on nirgun aspect .
In sloka 2 to 5 of chapter 12 of Gita Sri Krishna says “ Those who fix their minds on me and worship me with complete faith, them I regard the most disciplined ( yuktatama )” , “ The exertion of those whose minds are attached to the unmanifest is greater for the unmanifest state is difficult to reach by embodied beings” . Therefore worshiping of sagun sakar brahma is regarded superior to that of nirgun nirakar brahma

You know very well than me how Krishna has been depicted in Gita and after reading the following slokas in particular and whole Gita in general I do not have any confusion to accept that Krishna is ultimate brahma. Nigun nirakar aspect is meant for tattwa only and sagun sakar aspect is lila where bhakta desires to enjoy the seva-phal through prem bhakti. . Therefore to me sri krishna is nirgun nirakar nirvishes in tattva and sagun sakar savishes in lila and nothing remain beyond his form and attributes. It is his form and attributes which attract me towards him.

I request you to share your opinion on these slokas of Gita in regard to sri Krishna being ultimate and absolute authority as sagun sakar

1) Gita sloka 7 of chap-7 “ there is nothing higher than me”( mattah paratarang nanyata ),
2) Sloka 9 of chap-4 “ One who is conversant with the divine nature of my birth and action is not born again when he leaves his body he comes to me”
3) Sloka 11 of chap-9 –“ the deluded despise me when I dwell in a human body not knowing my higher nature as the ultimate controller of beings”
4) Sloka 19 of chap-9- “ I am the existent and non existent”( sadasachaham)
5) Sloka 27 of chap-14- “ I am the original foundation of the brahma , of the immortal and the imperishable, of the eternal law and of the absolute bliss”
6) sloka 18 of chap 15- “ Because I transcend the mutable and am higher than the immutable I am celebrated in the world and in the Vedas as supreme ( Purushottam)”
7)Sloka 65 of chap 18-“ just think of me be my devotee worship me offer obeisance unto me certainly you will come to me I promise this in truth to you being dear to me”

I do not know whether Ram Krishna cut his Maa (Kali, a hurdle ! ) into pieces but I shall definitely confirm myself about it. But I like to remind you that during the ages of vaishnab achariya ( Yamunachariya, Ramanujachariya, Madhvachariya, Nimbarkachriya and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu) many great advaita preachers left advaita and began to follow vaishnab prem bhakti marg and attained their desired destination.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast�

Agni, means literally, "fire", and he himself is a mighty God.
A Deity chooses his own devotee, it is hardly the other way round!

If we look to the great seer/ṛṣi śunaḥṣepaḥ ājīgartiḥ and his hymn 1.24.1 and 1.24.2 of the ṛg ved he asks,

1.24.1
' Being in doubt I ask, among the immortals (amṛta - immortal, imperishable) which deva/deity with an auspicious name shall we call? Who is that God who will restore us to the mighty aditi (the Infinite, wholeness, fullness) so I may behold again the father and the mother ( i.e. spiritual parents) '

1.24.2 śloka gives the answer:
'Agni, the first among the immortals - his auspicious name will we utter.'

For more on agni , please consider this HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=4743


praṇām

[devotee]

Namaste Japmala,

I think I have already stated whatever I had to offer on the issue at hand. All your questions are repetitive in spite of my answering all of them. That shows only two things :

a) I am incapable of satisfying you with my answers
b) You don't want or are unable to see the way I see the Truth

Therefore, I have serious doubts if we can make any progress by discussing the same thing and repeating the same thing again and again. You may re-read my posts, if you so desire and try to understand or you may read Upanishads to understand the essence which is there in the Bhagwad Gita.

Again, I have no issues with any of the Vaishnava Acharyas. I have nowhere told that Bhakti is not a valid path ... so this reference was unnecessary. Please remember that I have also stated as has been told in Upanishads that JnAna Marg is not for everyone. Only after attaining a certain level in spirituality, this path can be suitable for the seeker.

Jai Sri Krishna !

OM

[Guiding Thoughts]

Hi.

There are three streams of energies that an individual can generate through the process of Meditation ( known as Dhyaan Yoga in the Vedanta Philosophy). Dhyaan Yoga is meditation upon Sunlight( signifying Illumination and knowledge) and is done by meditating upon 3 primary centres of the Body ( the navel, the heart, and the Spot between the eyebrows, deep in the forehead). This meditation ( dhyaan) culminates in the development of three distinct qualities in an individual , described as :

1) Karma Yoga
2) Bhakti Yoga
3) Jnana Yoga or gyaan Yoga.

Karma Yoga : Is the yoga of the body- which means, that this yoga pertains to the worldly domains of your life and your deeds. One who meditates upon light in the navel region cannot sit idle. He will always be busy in good actions.
The deeds of worship, service, social welfare and the actions pertaining to transactions of responsibilities, adoption of moral ideals, etc fall under karma-yoga.It conveys that one who meditates upon light should not be lethargic, lazy or dishonest.

Jnana Yoga or Gyaan Yoga:nvolves meditating upon the light spot (of rising sun) in the center of your brain. The infusion of this light in your brain, in your mind, should inspire you to become a Gyana Yogi.
The first sign of this progress is that there should be nothing negative in your mind; your thoughts should be positive and constructive. In general, the human mind is flooded by strong currents of pell-mell thoughts and imaginations; the bedlam of passions and impulses keeps hovering around it like the fleas and mosquitoes around a drain. Sometimes your mind is boiling in anger; sometimes erotic thoughts perturb it; some moments you are thinking of a movie, soon you may begin to plan for the purchase of a lottery-ticket and dream about what you will do with the wealth gained thereby and what not! This way you keep recklessly wasting your mental energy in useless, purposeless and haphazard imaginations and thoughts.
In the practice of Gyana Yoga, we must inculcate the insight and courage to eliminate and prevent the base elements that keep intruding in our minds. Instead, if we adopt the kind of thinking that is positive, sane and noble and nurture it firmly in our mental field, our mind could become a grand reservoir of knowledge. Precious pearls of deep knowledge, ideas and inspirations would then be discovered in its inner recesses.

Bhakti Yoga : Qualities can be generated by meditating upon the centre of the Heart.
The feeling of "Tamaso Ma Jyotir Gamaya" should emerge from the depths of your emotions while concentrating on the glow of rising sun in your heart. It implies emancipation of the soul, the inner self from the darkness of ignorance into the eternal light of pure knowledge and divine love. Deep and focused mental concentration is a major prerequisite for meditation.

To read this full article please click on the following link:
http://guidingthoughts.blogspot.com/...light-its.html

Best regards
Guidingthoughts.blogspot.com

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

Thank you, indeed, Yajvan!

I was in a way asking for getting thrown out of this forum, by for instance, saying that Krishna is an avatar of Sarasvati! Or that there is really no escape from Varun's nook, so the way forward is to expand!

And though I was true to my soul, it is your wisdom, intuition, and warmth that kept me engaged, every word published without editing, and ensured a hearty welcome for a newcomer.

Re: Krishna

Vishnu, no doubt, is a composite God, consisting of all Gods of Existence. Vishnu covers them in his three strides of Earth (Prithivi), Heaven (Dyo) and Antariks, before assuming his usual station in Non-existence. Sarasvati stands at the summit of Existence, and is the one to "have listened", that is, she is one who receives intimation from the realm of Non-existence.

This "connection" between Existence and Non-existence is Yama in Rig Veda and Shiva Lingam later. So many a time Krishna exhibited the duality of Yama. Hence the debate (genuine) over Krishna being saguna or nirguna in essence!

Though it is for everyone to see that Bharata has still not recovered from his Yama streak of distruction.

[billcu]

No, it is not theology. Agni, means literally, "fire", and he himself is a mighty God.

A Deity chooses his own devotee, it is hardly the other way round!

Krishna is an incarnation, of a Deity. So either one can directly connect (via Vedic study and chants) to that particular Deity (called "Aditya", Sarasvati in this case) and become him/her, or one can make some hearty reading of that incarnate's life-story (Mahabharata and Gita in this case).

Beyond this, I guess, we are on our own!

I thought Krishna was an avatar of Vishnu.

B

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

I thought Krishna was an avatar of Vishnu.

B

Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu. But then, who is Vishnu? For sure, Ram and Krishna or others are very different manifestations of Vishnu. Again, Vishnu is a God, and Krishna or Rama is an incarnation: this distinction should not be forgotten.

Vishnu is a living "column" starting over from Bhag, the God of matter, upto Sarasvati at the summit of Existence. So he is a composite God, like Agni, or Marut, of Veda. Yet his original source, as well as his final "rest", is in the realm of Brahamanaspati, or non-Existence, as Daksha.

It is not unusual to find "Daksha-pitara", i.e. having Dakha as their Father, applied to Gods of Existence ("world") in the Rig-Veda.